Nightblade's Stealth - Completely Broken? Possibly resolved?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You shouldn't need to restart to see the changes, we did it magically while you were still online.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

multiple people have stated numerous times that medium armor detection passive is also broken. We asked you to confirm that you were looking into this and received no response. Maybe it got lost in the debate about vampires.

Could you enlighten us about this.

Also, we all want to know if already cast projectiles should or should not hit someone after they cloak and knock them out of cloak. We are aware that they knock you out if they miss and that is a bug, but it seems that cloak has been significantly nerfed, into uselessness tbh, if it is supposed to hit and knock you out of stealth at any point once you cloak and a projectile is en route, (and I would assume charge abilities etc.)

More information on these is really needed.

bunnytrix

After a couple hours testing, not seeing any real improvement in stealth. Still getting the eye open at significantly farther away than before 1.4. Still unable to sneak up to a mob close enough to use Concealed Weapon most of the time.
As we have said all along. there's more broken with stealth than just Stealthy and Nightshade. Beginning to feel that detection radius has been increased across the board and stealth suffering for it...or that stealth has had a (stealthy!) nerf.

Gilvoth

bunnytrix wrote: »

After a couple hours testing, not seeing any real improvement in stealth. Still getting the eye open at significantly farther away than before 1.4. Still unable to sneak up to a mob close enough to use Concealed Weapon most of the time.
As we have said all along. there's more broken with stealth than just Stealthy and Nightshade. Beginning to feel that detection radius has been increased across the board and stealth suffering for it...or that stealth has had a (stealthy!) nerf.

exactly my thoughts and experiances as well.

GrimMauKin

Not a great deal to say in praise of this patch I'm afraid; I do feel that I'm seeing some improvement to stealth radius and Shadowy Disguise (still very erratic though) but Concealed Weapon is dodgy and not giving its stealth speed passive improvement; I've got doubts about other passives too.

C- Could (should) do better!

ZOS_GinaBruno

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You shouldn't need to restart to see the changes, we did it magically while you were still online.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

multiple people have stated numerous times that medium armor detection passive is also broken. We asked you to confirm that you were looking into this and received no response. Maybe it got lost in the debate about vampires.

Could you enlighten us about this.

Also, we all want to know if already cast projectiles should or should not hit someone after they cloak and knock them out of cloak. We are aware that they knock you out if they miss and that is a bug, but it seems that cloak has been significantly nerfed, into uselessness tbh, if it is supposed to hit and knock you out of stealth at any point once you cloak and a projectile is en route, (and I would assume charge abilities etc.)

More information on these is really needed.

The first question about medium armor was indeed lost in the debate. As mentioned in this post the other day , we did look at the medium armor passive and it is working properly as far as we can tell.

As far as the cloak abilities, the intention is that you should not be getting knocked out of stealth by a projectile. If you're seeing otherwise, let us know which abilities are knocking you out as that'll help us pinpoint the issue faster.

jelliedsoup

GrimMauKin wrote: »

Not a great deal to say in praise of this patch I'm afraid; I do feel that I'm seeing some improvement to stealth radius and Shadowy Disguise (still very erratic though) but Concealed Weapon is dodgy and not giving its stealth speed passive improvement; I've got doubts about other passives too.

C- Could (should) do better!

I disagree. Concealed weapon is giving me the speed bonus, shadowy disguise is way better.

Detection has always been minimal even with sets which improve it.

rwross

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

So, it's hard to know for sure, but while I do think there was some improvement by the hot fix, I'm pretty sure it's not "3 meters" worth.

How close should a Wood Elf NB with all medium armor and maxed sneak / stealthy passives be able to get to a mob before being detected? That's not a rhetorical question...if we knew that, then we could test better.

The tool tip for the racial passive which was non functional prior to the hot fix states that detection radius should decrease by 3 meters and there definitely isn't a 3 meter difference between before and now

thoughts...

Romikov

@Romikov‌ were you able to confirm that Night's Silence and Concealed Weapon stack? It was hard for me to tell if my toon's speed increased when I switched to the actions that had Concealed slotted.[/quote] .......................................................... i use the stopwatch in same trail with and without Coanceled wapon and they work .. it work if u go with it into the stealth, but if u switch it in stealth they didnt work i fear but i need test it again for right proof .. but not today my time is short today

Gilvoth

rwross wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

So, it's hard to know for sure, but while I do think there was some improvement by the hot fix, I'm pretty sure it's not "3 meters" worth.

How close should a Wood Elf NB with all medium armor and maxed sneak / stealthy passives be able to get to a mob before being detected? That's not a rhetorical question...if we knew that, then we could test better.

The tool tip for the racial passive which was non functional prior to the hot fix states that detection radius should decrease by 3 meters and there definitely isn't a 3 meter difference between before and now

thoughts...

i know for a fact you are correct and that our sneak eye does open MUCH sooner then it did from beta even to the 1.3 patch because i have tested it, we were at about a 9 foot distance and any closer the eye would slightly open, that has now changed to the eye opening at around 25 foot instead of the previous 9 foot.
@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

icenstorm

Night's Silence and Concealed Weapon do stack but it only works if you have the bar with Concealed Weapon on it up when you first initiate sneak.
If you then weapon swap while sneaking you loose it, even when weapon swapping back to the Concealed Weapon bar ( doesn't kick in if you are already sneaking).

GnatB

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You shouldn't need to restart to see the changes, we did it magically while you were still online.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

multiple people have stated numerous times that medium armor detection passive is also broken. We asked you to confirm that you were looking into this and received no response. Maybe it got lost in the debate about vampires.

Could you enlighten us about this.

Also, we all want to know if already cast projectiles should or should not hit someone after they cloak and knock them out of cloak. We are aware that they knock you out if they miss and that is a bug, but it seems that cloak has been significantly nerfed, into uselessness tbh, if it is supposed to hit and knock you out of stealth at any point once you cloak and a projectile is en route, (and I would assume charge abilities etc.)

More information on these is really needed.

As far as the cloak abilities, the intention is that you should not be getting knocked out of stealth by a projectile. If you're seeing otherwise, let us know which abilities are knocking you out as that'll help us pinpoint the issue faster.

Thank you for taking the time to post, but that didn't quite answer the actual question. The question wasn't whether you should be knocked out of stealth, but whether you should be hit by them at all. My *personal* viewpoint is that you should be hit by already en route projectiles, (however they shouldn't knock you out of stealth even when they hit). Other people argue that you should immediately become immune to any en route projectiles. (and thus, obviously, shouldn't be knocked out of stealth). The tooltip doesn't really specify either way. It merely says turn invisible. (Though I'd point out, doesn't specify invincible)

If the latter, then I guess I should hope it gets fixed and probably slot it into my bar. I've been using far less effective forms of mitigation on my NB than that would be, as I assumed the skill was intended merely as an aggro dump/mid-fight sneak attack opener. Neither of which are particularly useful to my build.

Nazon_Katts

Projectiles do miss now, however that doesn't help a bit. Bosses still see through cloak, will follow me when cloaked and hit me when cloaked. Send your QA team into AD/VR Hall of the Dead, all of them act like that in there.

Sacadon

Gina / Jessica / ZOS,

The medium armor passive for stealth is still NOT reducing the radius in which detection occurs when crouched/stealth. I submitted this to bug: 140923-001584.

I was able to reproduce this very easily. In Bal Foyen, I crouched then walked up to an NPC until the eye started to open and took a screenshot. Then walked away removed all my armor completely and repeated.

Even though the pics tend to indicate I was able to get closer w/out any armor. In both cases, the behavior while crouching was unchanged and I was detected at the exact same distance with armor or without.

Screenshot of comparison: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dd516gobxt6g804/MediumArmor_StealthPassive_Comparison.png?dl=0

I'm happy to provide additional information if needed... so please let me know.

Thanks

GrimMauKin

I disagree. Concealed weapon is giving me the speed bonus, shadowy disguise is way better.

Perhaps said more in frustration that anything else (and bearing in might that this patch/hotfix was simply meant to put right what was broken by the previous patch in the first place).

I'd certainly agree that things are much better but, in my gaming experience, not quite back to pre 1.4.4 levels.

My detection radius seems much better (probably as good as ever) and Shadowy Disguise is much more robust; attacks that have already launch as I cloak still hit and knock me out of stealth but I suspect that this is how it's meant to work and makes sense. Missile attacks that miss don't knock me out of stealth. That said Shadow Disguise is still erratic and does seem to break unexpectedly; I've even had an instance where it didn't work at all.

Concealed Weapon still doesn't appear to be giving me a stealth bonus and is still missing attacks on occasion.

Things are better, but still not where they should be for me.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

a friend and I tested it earlier today, and it seemed like projectiles en route miss when you cloak.

This is as it should be, but some people are saying otherwise, that it isn't doing this.

hrm.

We were also able to get on top of a mob from behind and not be detected. With nightshade it was literally right behind the mob, so there is a difference and the passives seem good.

We couldn't tell if med armor passive was working, though.

It wasn't rigorous scientific testing btw, just seeing when mobs detected us.

I would hesitantly say things are working from what I have seen. I would defer to other people who have tested more thoroughly, though.

Also, even though there's a new cyrodiil door bug, you can fix it by weapon swapping, and the old one is fixed. I will settle for that for now. I can work around that bug.

CapuchinSeven

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You shouldn't need to restart to see the changes, we did it magically while you were still online.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

multiple people have stated numerous times that medium armor detection passive is also broken. We asked you to confirm that you were looking into this and received no response. Maybe it got lost in the debate about vampires.

Could you enlighten us about this.

Also, we all want to know if already cast projectiles should or should not hit someone after they cloak and knock them out of cloak. We are aware that they knock you out if they miss and that is a bug, but it seems that cloak has been significantly nerfed, into uselessness tbh, if it is supposed to hit and knock you out of stealth at any point once you cloak and a projectile is en route, (and I would assume charge abilities etc.)

More information on these is really needed.

The first question about medium armor was indeed lost in the debate. As mentioned in this post the other day , we did look at the medium armor passive and it is working properly as far as we can tell.

As far as the cloak abilities, the intention is that you should not be getting knocked out of stealth by a projectile. If you're seeing otherwise, let us know which abilities are knocking you out as that'll help us pinpoint the issue faster.

Something does feel wrong with my normal stealth right now, can't put my finger on it but it's just off, my eye is constantly opening and closing and I have no real idea what it is that setting it off.

I just know it wasn't like this pre patch.

raglau

It's definitely better from my perspective of a vampire using stealth to feed. Directly after the patch in question, I could seldom not get near enough before I was detected, but now it's better.

However, it doesn't seem as large a stealth radius as before the patch broke it.

Nibiruman

rwross wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

So, it's hard to know for sure, but while I do think there was some improvement by the hot fix, I'm pretty sure it's not "3 meters" worth.

How close should a Wood Elf NB with all medium armor and maxed sneak / stealthy passives be able to get to a mob before being detected? That's not a rhetorical question...if we knew that, then we could test better.

The tool tip for the racial passive which was non functional prior to the hot fix states that detection radius should decrease by 3 meters and there definitely isn't a 3 meter difference between before and now

thoughts...

This.

Mondo

@ZOSGinaBruno you are the only reason i dont unsub

Maulkin

Mondo wrote: »

@ZOSGinaBruno you are the only reason i dont unsub

What the...I don't even....what?

Catsmoke14

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

rwross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

rwross wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I know you mentioned the Nightshade set, but can you also confirm that you guys are working to fix the Night's Silence set as well. The 5+ piece bonus to sneak speak (not radius) is not working either.

Yes, the Night's Silence movement bonus isn't working either, but will be fixed in Monday's patch.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
Hiya...can you please shed any light on what aspects of stealth are still non-functional and when you think the hot fix will go in this week. I think this will save a lot of churn in the forums :-)

thanks!!

Yes, certainly. The hotfix will consist of the following:

• A fix for Stealthy, which is not currently reducing the detection radius
• A fix for Nightshade, where the 3-set bonus decreased stealth radius is not working

We are planning to push this hotfix tomorrow morning (Eastern time) on both megaservers.

Also, we have tested the medium armor passive internally, and it appears to be functioning properly. Once 1.4.4 is fully rolled out (at this point, just waiting for the EU maintenance window) and tomorrow's hotfix is complete, let us know if you're still seeing issues with stealth. Thank you!

I tested the Medium armor stealth passive "Improved Stealth" on a strangler. Stranglers don't move.

It made no difference in when the eye opened: 7 pieces or naked. Same distance from the strangler. As far as I could tell.

If it is "working properly" then my advice to everyone is to put your points in some other skill.

Sacadon

ZOS,
Please review this video of another test I just did. The coordinates are shown so we can understand the general location of the character when the eye opens.
--
Please respond if you have seen us confirming that Medium Armor passives still DO NOT work for all of us.
--
I understand that it may take a bit to get this fixed. I just want to be sure you see that it is in fact broken.

Thanks

rwross

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Did you have a moment to review the video from @omniobsessed‌ above

I think it does a great job of demonstrating what we've been talking about. It would also explain why I saw some improvement when the racial passive was fixed but it felt like it still wasn't up to the point it was before the major patch a couple weeks ago.

Could you please check into this and let us know what you think?

Finally, I do want to recognize and appreciate the work you've done in communicating with us about getting the nights silence gear racial passive's fixed. Those changes or critically important and at least allow the characters, in my opinion, to be playable until you're able to understand and correct what's going on with the medium armor sneak ability.

Thanks!

redferne.requiemneb18_ESO

omniobsessed wrote: »

ZOS,
Please review this video of another test I just did. The coordinates are shown so we can understand the general location of the character when the eye opens.
--
Please respond if you have seen us confirming that Medium Armor passives still DO NOT work for all of us.
--
I understand that it may take a bit to get this fixed. I just want to be sure you see that it is in fact broken.

Thanks

I'm not sure your test is valid since did not get out of stealth before equipping your armor. There is apparently a bug with the night silence set that allows you to retain the buff if you unequip part of the set. It might not be related all but... hey... who knows with those "updates" it might be the same when unequipping pieces of medium armor.

That being said I also feel that the detection radius is way bigger than before 1.4 to the point I'm testing a build not relying on stealth or invisibility. And it works great

rwross

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Perhaps the problem, with the medium armor sneak ability, Has to do with the percentage calculations. For example the radius is supposed to decrease by 5% per piece of armor equipped.

So, for me wearing all medium armor that's a 35% decrease however a decrease off of what baseline?

Maybe it would be easier to code if the bonus or calculated like the racial passive is. For example sneak radius is decreased by 1/2 m per item of medium armor equipped.

In that case someone wearing full medium armor would have the radius decreased by 3.5 meter which is just about the same benefit as a maxed out racial passive

The number I throughout is just a placeholder if that seems too high then you could make it one quarter meter per medium armor equipped or whatever makes sense for balance.

For me, the one half meter per item seems to make sense.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Ok, I think there might be some confusion as to how stealth and detection works. When you are stealthed, the eye will begin to open very slightly at the same distance no matter what you have equipped. When the eye fully opens is dependent on your passives/items/etc, and this is when you are considered detected. The screenshot that @omniobsessed‌ posted demonstrates this - the eye is slightly open at the same distance in both situations, and that is working correctly with the way the system is designed.

Another thing to note is that the standard detection radius if you are stealthed is 10m in the front, 5m to the side, and 0m from behind. An ability that increases detection by 3m, for example, would mean you could see someone 13m in front, 8m to the side, and 3m behind.

With all that said, many of you are mentioning the eye opening, or when the eye is open. Are you referring to when the eye is fully open and you see the text "detected", or is it when the eye is only slightly open? If the former, it may be a legitimate issue, but if it's the latter, it may just be confusion as to how the system works.

Hope this helps explain things a bit. Let us know if you're continuing to see an issue keeping all these points in mind.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Wow, thank you so much for explaining that. That will certainly make testing easier.

GreyRanger

So one punch line is that passives that decrease the stealth detect range won't do anything from behind because the base is 0.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Your explanation was super helpful, thank you.

Could you provide a similarly clear explanation regarding how the invisibility power Shadow Cloak is supposed to work when cloak is hit:
1. While and attack animation is firing
2. Once an attack projectile is inbound, but has not yet landed

That would help loads in testing the current state out.
PS Clarity on what should break invisibility would help as well.

Saet

Thank you Gina! That kind of communication is what we really want from you guys.

polar

I am going to jump on and test this later (if I recall, I was being detected from behind last night...but I could have been a bit to the side). However, I wanted to jump on now and say thank you for engaging this issue.

This is the type of engagement with your customers that will keep and win back subs.