Nightblade's Stealth - Completely Broken? Possibly resolved?

Gilvoth

rhogarth2b14a_ESO wrote: »

The entire NB class is hosed to be honest. It seems to get more and more broken with each patch. The other 3 classes have their primary skills in order that keep them viable. NB fundamental skills are flat out [snip], particularly when it comes to pvp.

Dragon knights talons and standards working ok? Yep spam that *** like a boss.

How about Sorcs shields, streaks, and endless ultimate spamming, they working ok? Yep, everyone and their momma rockin these nonstop.

How about Templars blazing shields, heals n stuff, they working ok? Yep you better pack a lunch trying to kill one.

And how about NB's......err...what is it that is supposed to set them apart again? Oh right, their stealth and speed. How's that going for them? I think the answer is obvious to everyone accept the Devs, who apparently think this game is still in closed Beta.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

your comment and post here i quoted is by FAR the most honest and best comment i have ever read on this forum. very precise and perfect wording and every word stated is truth. i would like to add something as well,
nightblades style class type in all the elderscrolls single player games are based on physical damage,*daggers, longblades, swords, throwing stars, and throwing daggers and perhaps a small shield and even a bow, thise are physical in nature and require no magicka at all. in eso however it would appier that most of the skills in the nightblade class are all magicka based rather then physical damage.
we nightblades (accept for invisibility casting) are not magicka based yet we possess magicka skills? why is that? we also do not posses magicka resistance, or atleast not stong enough to withstand the other 3 magicka based classes that apose us.
it is easy to see that we nightblades have no true healing ability like the other 3 classes have as well, they can instantly heal themselves after we pour out our max damage to them.
i know we have some small skills that only last for 8 seconds at most like the heavy armor skill, but truely why do i need magicka for anything other then casting invisibility?
why

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Spectrasoul wrote: »

I have a hard enough time getting med armor to work without having to wear a specific set.

Interesting. It is of course to your advantage to wear a set that caters to your build. Getting it to work I do not understand, but I'm quite sure it has little to do with any 'sets'.

My VR6 NB son is running a full set of Hunding's Rage and some Song of Lamae, yes another Vampire. I make all our stuff. My Vampire Witch runs Seducer and Lamae. These add fairly serious numbers to our builds. Allowing, with jewelery, some quite large adjustments to our numbers. You understand this is just a numbers game I hope.

You might find it interesting that with my attack potions, I make everything, he can burst down quite healthy monsters in very short order. His weapon crit is 40%+ and weapon power right at max and when he drops the +19 weapon power, 200 crit and a stack of stamina potion he just goes nuts, it's quite entertaining.

Gilvoth

it's as if the person who created the nightblade class has no idea what a true assassin rouge type class should posses.

Tavore1138

I don't think it is worth getting lost in the whole 'what a NB' should be discussion.

All classes should be flexible and I, for one, enjoy the dual weild stealthy approach but I also use my magic skills such as Ambush & Funnel Health to work in synergy. In the offline games the NB was most often a mix of stealth, stabby-ness and use of appropriate magic to enhance both.

If the various skills in the trees were to work as advertised that is what we would have.

I'd argue stamina weapons should lay down a bit more damage and the class could use something to provide class based sustain (even if that is simply a bit more resource recovery from siphon tree skills).

But we should not need the same stuff as the other classes, what we lack in sustain we should have in swift violent damage output and quick stealthy movement in & out of combat. Noone should be able to out-dps a well built NB but we have to accept that when the burst runs down we need to use that movement ability to get out or we may well die!

poodlemasterb16_ESO

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But we should not need the same stuff as the other classes, what we lack in sustain we should have in swift violent damage output and quick stealthy movement in & out of combat. Noone should be able to out-dps a well built NB but we have to accept that when the burst runs down we need to use that movement ability to get out or we may well die!

My son the VR6 Vampire NB and my VR6 Vampire Witch go play sometimes. He can hit harder than she can, his initial burst from stealth is impressive but he runs out of steam pretty easy. My Witch is able to lay down hurt at a pretty high level for a long time. She actually can deal with stuff he has problems with and her ability to deal with crowds is a bit better but he hits like a truck.

He motors about the place in sneak in a terrifying manner. It's second nature to him now and I sometimes can't believe the places he goes. He will cruise right through groups my quite sneaky witch would have to be up the wall for, he just hits invis and rolls on through.

Tavore1138

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But we should not need the same stuff as the other classes, what we lack in sustain we should have in swift violent damage output and quick stealthy movement in & out of combat. Noone should be able to out-dps a well built NB but we have to accept that when the burst runs down we need to use that movement ability to get out or we may well die!

My son the VR6 Vampire NB and my VR6 Vampire Witch go play sometimes. He can hit harder than she can, his initial burst from stealth is impressive but he runs out of steam pretty easy. My Witch is able to lay down hurt at a pretty high level for a long time. She actually can deal with stuff he has problems with and her ability to deal with crowds is a bit better but he hits like a truck.

He motors about the place in sneak in a terrifying manner. It's second nature to him now and I sometimes can't believe the places he goes. He will cruise right through groups my quite sneaky witch would have to be up the wall for, he just hits invis and rolls on through.

That's pretty much how it should be IMO, and to be fair before the last patch this is how my NB was even without using cloak.

kitsinni

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Sneak_Thief wrote: »

vaughancs wrote: »

I agree, vamp nb's have been done wrong..pls don't make any more changes unless it is an improvement for NB's. I had the night silence set..vamps are supernatural so, yeah,we should run faster in stealth.hasnt anyone seen "Interview with a Vampire :P Thats the trade off for fire vulnerability (even with enchant resists), having to feed every so often and getti g one-shotted by silverbolt..we are vamps people..vamp is a skill line with passives..did you change the magika and stamina passives from the guild lines that prolly stacks with sets that gives increased stats? No...the one thing that made me happy..you had to take it away..cuz of a few whiners...who cares if we go as fast as their horse..tell them to feed it!

Yeah you are 100% correct, Vamps, according to most lore, movies, and shows move at an incredible speed..

Yeah but I should ALSO be able to poke you with a hunk of wood I picked up off the ground (or silver) and turn you into ash or you should burst in flames in sunlight.

Not seeing EITHER of those happening in this game so don't try and quote movies as a viable reference unless you are willing to accept ALL the drawbacks. Cherry picking to suit your own ends doesn't fly....oh wait.....Vampires can also turn into bats and fly....you want that too??? ><

The funny thing is they can turn in to bats in this game even though that is a pretty rare thing as far as vampire lore goes.

starkerealm

kitsinni wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Sneak_Thief wrote: »

vaughancs wrote: »

I agree, vamp nb's have been done wrong..pls don't make any more changes unless it is an improvement for NB's. I had the night silence set..vamps are supernatural so, yeah,we should run faster in stealth.hasnt anyone seen "Interview with a Vampire :P Thats the trade off for fire vulnerability (even with enchant resists), having to feed every so often and getti g one-shotted by silverbolt..we are vamps people..vamp is a skill line with passives..did you change the magika and stamina passives from the guild lines that prolly stacks with sets that gives increased stats? No...the one thing that made me happy..you had to take it away..cuz of a few whiners...who cares if we go as fast as their horse..tell them to feed it!

Yeah you are 100% correct, Vamps, according to most lore, movies, and shows move at an incredible speed..

Yeah but I should ALSO be able to poke you with a hunk of wood I picked up off the ground (or silver) and turn you into ash or you should burst in flames in sunlight.

Not seeing EITHER of those happening in this game so don't try and quote movies as a viable reference unless you are willing to accept ALL the drawbacks. Cherry picking to suit your own ends doesn't fly....oh wait.....Vampires can also turn into bats and fly....you want that too??? ><

The funny thing is they can turn in to bats in this game even though that is a pretty rare thing as far as vampire lore goes.

The weird thing about the bats... and someone who's more familiar with vampires in Elder Scrolls can correct me if I'm wrong, that power is exclusive to the version of the Volkihar Clan we see in Dawnguard. So far as I know none of the other clans exhibit that ability.

bunnytrix

Please keep it on topic and post your specs NBs.


Race: Khajiit

Class: er Nightblade

Armor and weapons equipped: Full Medium Armor, DW Sword and Dagger / Bow

Slotted passives: All Class/medium armor/race passives.

Concealed Weapon on dw bar. Speed buff don't work. Cannot get close enough to use concealed weapon, being spotted at 20+ metres, can't sneak past enemies at all now where before patch I could sneak past fairly close to mobs.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

PlagueMonk wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Hmmm, apparently a lot of bad NB's here. Skills need some fixing at least in the "working correctly" dept. But as a vr10 NB I do insane dps in pve and I easily hold hold my own in PvP. Not sure what you guys are doing wrong. I hate to say it but l2p. Threatening to cancel sub is pretty lame. Jeez, back when I played Aion for instance I was a spirit master and it took forever for the revs to fix the class (way longer than its been for this game), but it all worked out in the end. Chill out and keep brining up broken mechanics like you're all doing so they can be fixed.

Was waiting for one of these"L2P" posts to pop up.

You forgot to list your spec there Tex. That will tell us why you are "holding your own" in PvP.


Oh and for those saying that NightsSilence stacking was "purely for fun". Bull****.

Being able to move from battle to battle faster than a horse and invisible is a HUGE freakin' advantage. Running this way means you get to the action quicker and never get unhorsed and ganked by a skirmish group. So please stop trying to convince us otherwise.

YOU CAN NOT RUN FASTER THAN A HORSE *Throws monitor in a lake! Breaks windows of her house*

Mojomonkeyman

I think NBs should be immune to detection, get their damage increased by a 100%, never ever get cloak broken because its such a pita to recast a spammable ability to reset enemy target tab & escape into sunset everytime they engage someone. They should benefit from sneak bonuses while invis because not having 9000% critbonus and racing car speed everytime they attack from cloak is clearly broken, too!

I mean you are NBs, you are supposed to oneshot everyone with a single button press and escape risk- & carefree with another single button mash, right?

starkerealm

Okay, here's the weird thing...

Breton Nightblade (Werewolf 10) VR2

All Medium Armor (Allesia's Bullwark 2pc, Night's Silence 5pc), Greatsword and Bow.

Concealed weapon seems to be adding +25% to move speed while stealthed... but that's hard to be sure of. Swapping weapons breaks it, so it is easier to see then.

Night's Silence doesn't work, but that's not news.

All medium passives, all race passives.

Slotted powers, Concealed Weapon, Carve, Strife, Pounce, Roar (I've been trying to actually raise the skills by slotting them to the bar, which works, but they can't be used outside of werewolf form), Werewolf Berserker.

I'm not having issues with stealth... I'm having no problems getting close to enemies and using concealed weapon.

I figured this might just be an issue where the Werewolf isn't affected, so I jumped over to my Bosmer...

Bosmer Nightblade (Vampire 3) Level 27

All Medium Armor (Vampire's Kiss 5pc, Song of Lamae 2pc) Dual Wield and Bow.

All available Medium Armor and Racial passives.

Slotted powers: Concealed Weapon, Blood Frenzy, Essence Drain, Mist Form, Cloak, the Syphon ultimate (can't remember the name right now.)

Again, concealed weapon works fine for movement, I can reliably get close enough to use it for the bonus damage. I'm able to skirt very close to enemies without being detected.

I didn't test it on my Imperial medium nightblade or my mixed medium/heavy armor Breton nightblade. They're both too low level to show anything useful on their stealth visibility.

My thought is, this might be like the item deterioration bug back with 1.1, where some players are experiencing their stealth functionality completely failing, while others are unaffected.

Father

Stealth Radius reduction is not working with my Bosmer NB + 7 piece med armor [5p night silence 3 nightshade], I don't have concealed weapons though..so not sure if it works properly post 1.4.3

seneferab16_ESO

People, can you please argue about Night Silence in any of the other threads and keep this one on topic? Most of us here seem to be nighblades, and you must agree that it is in our best interest to keep this thread dedicated to providing the info mods asked for us. I mean.. they.. asked us questions.. it's like they care!

Don't make them stop monitoring this thread because of all the off topic arguing. There's plenty of other threads for that.

Knootewoot

I use bow and DW, but mainly DW. I don't have stealth issues. Yesterday in PvP i was at buttsniffing range and wasn't detected. Also I encountered enemy NB's and i only detected someone 2-3 away (eye opened a bit) could see them 1-2 m away and sometimes i was on top of them.

Medium armor - all passives
assassin - all passives + repears mark, ambush
shadow - all passives + dark cloak, suprise attack,
siphoning - all passives+soul haevest
Vampire - all passives and batswarm
dual wield - all passives and rapid strikes and flying blades\
Bow - all passives and poison arrow and lethal arrow
racial skills - all (Breton)

Armor: 4 pieces nights silence (used to be 5 but not anymore)
3 pieces hunding
Weapons: bow with hunding
2 daggers with hunding

Setup 1: poison arrow
Lethal arrow
soul harvest
Reaper mark
dark cloak (sometimes mist)
Ultimate: devouring swarm and sometimes veil of darkness

Setup 2: rapid stikes
suprise attack
flying dagger
ambush
dark cloak
Ultimate: incapacitating strike

I don't have stealth issues. Dark cloak seems to break sometimes yes but that it always did and was never fixed.

seneferab16_ESO

I noticed today that a heavy bow attack from Sneak/Stealth does not trigger the sneak attack bonus like it used to. Has this been changed to bring bow in line with other projectile heavy attacks from Sneak/Stealth, or is it another symtom of the bug?

Sablemane

Uhhhh...right. Ok so back on topic:

Khajiit NB level 36

Dual Wield: Bugslayer/Orichalc mace, 7/7 medium (no set pieces)

All Assassination passives maxed except Hemorrhage (1/2)
All Shadow passives maxed except Dark Veil (1/2)
All DW passives maxed except Ruffian (1/2), and TBB (1/2)
Racial passives: Robust 3/3, Stealthy 2/3, Carnage 2/3

Last night Shadow Cloak was no longer giving a speed bonus. The night previous at least that was the only thing working with SC. Cheers!

ZOS_GinaBruno

Ok everyone, thanks so much for your help and patience. We have identified what the main issue is here: both the racial passive Stealthy and the item set Nightshade are not currently working. We are hard at work fixing both of these, and apologize for the frustration this has caused. We'll let you know when you can expect to see the fix.

Mograineb16_ESO

seneferab16_ESO wrote: »

Dark Cloak VI will not work at all during the effect of Efficient Purge IV (reduces the duration of negative effects on nearby allies by 50% for 3 seconds).

These issues was introduced with the patch.

It works, but it just doesnt show the invisible graphic after using purge

seneferab16_ESO

Mograineb16_ESO wrote: »

seneferab16_ESO wrote: »

Dark Cloak VI will not work at all during the effect of Efficient Purge IV (reduces the duration of negative effects on nearby allies by 50% for 3 seconds).

These issues was introduced with the patch.

It works, but it just doesnt show the invisible graphic after using purge

Awesome! Ability is going straight back on bar, it has been dearly missed.

TheBull

wrong thread...

seneferab16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, thanks so much for your help and patience. We have identified what the main issue is here: both the racial passive Stealthy and the item set Nightshade are not currently working. We are hard at work fixing both of these, and apologize for the frustration this has caused. We'll let you know when you can expect to see the fix.

Good news!
Got anything for us about Dark Cloak yet? It's currently very unreliable as mobs will frequently see/hit/shoot through it.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, thanks so much for your help and patience. We have identified what the main issue is here: both the racial passive Stealthy and the item set Nightshade are not currently working. We are hard at work fixing both of these, and apologize for the frustration this has caused. We'll let you know when you can expect to see the fix.

Improved Stealth under medium armor isn't working either. Its all detection range reductions that have stopped working.

ZOS_GinaBruno

seneferab16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, thanks so much for your help and patience. We have identified what the main issue is here: both the racial passive Stealthy and the item set Nightshade are not currently working. We are hard at work fixing both of these, and apologize for the frustration this has caused. We'll let you know when you can expect to see the fix.

Good news!
Got anything for us about Dark Cloak yet? It's currently very unreliable as mobs will frequently see/hit/shoot through it.

There's an issue specifically with Shadow Cloak where it's being removed when projectiles miss you; this is likely being fixed in patch 1.4.4.

Columba

Wood elf NB
7 medium
Bow (covenant); dual wield

All NB, bow, Dw, medium armor and wood elf passives

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, thanks so much for your help and patience. We have identified what the main issue is here: both the racial passive Stealthy and the item set Nightshade are not currently working. We are hard at work fixing both of these, and apologize for the frustration this has caused. We'll let you know when you can expect to see the fix.

I'm pretty sure there's more problems than that. There seems to be issues with all stealth related passives. I think there's one in medium armor as well, and there might be other sets with detection radius passives.

Nightstrider

VR:14
Nightblade
Bosmer
Vampire

7/7 Medium Armor
Dual Wield/Bow

All class passives (each three sets)
All vampire passives.
All Medium Armor passives.
All Dual Wield Passives.
All Bow passives.
All Fighter's Guild passives.
All 2H Weapon passives.

Issues I've noticed:

Stealth radius is bugged to hell. Detection range for NPCs in VR10 zones and lower are like I'm playing a sorcerer with all light armor. As was mentioned before, sneaking through a room of baddies that you've snuck through a hundred times before, is now impossible without a potion or shadow cloak.

Passives affecting stealth are bugged. Half the time I'm moving in stealth it has a HUGE stamina drain. The rest of the time, it's the reduced rate from all the passives. If it's using the huge drain, unstealthing and restealthing has fixed it.

Opening shots from stealth are bugged. This may be because detection radius is borked, but often when hitting a target from behind (NPC or PC), they don't get stunned or extra damage. It may be because they are detecting you in midswing. I don't know.

Regaining stealth is very very often impossible in PvP. In non-solo/gank situations, like keep taking, I usually maintain a 1 death to 10-15 kill ratio. Now it's 1 in 5 if I'm lucky. Since the new patch, if I start a fight that I can't finish (more enemies join in, it's a DK with 72387540 points of armor), I cannot regain stealth through crouching or through shadow cloak. The eye remains open if I crouch, and cloak pops me in and out so fast I barely even see the red color. Other classes don't seem to have this problem!!! I see them crouch in stealth and disappear all the time while I'm fighting them and they are running away. Vampire characters will hit mist form and crouch while running away, and they're gone.

RARELY, shadow cloak will work and I'll be able to cloak out, run, cloak again before it expires, move some more, cloak again... hide behind a tree and when it's done... Oh look, they eye is wide open still. The bad guys are running in the other direction with mage light on, no clue where I am... I have no DoTs on anyone... and I'm sitting there with my head stuck in a tree trying to hide my health bar from anyone looking for it until 20 seconds or so pass by and the eye closes.

And that's on the NOOBS -- The smart players spam bombard/pulsar/whirling etc, the second you stealth, so you get pulled from it before you can even move.

A NEW TWIST: As for pulling people from stealth -- I was running along outside of Chalman last night, I pressed my 5 key (which on one bar is Haste, but I had my other bar on by accident), and activated Ambush. It went off, and I teleported onto a DC player who was sitting idle (I proceeded to kill him, of course). It looked like Ambush triggered on his stealth position like arrows and spells do, without even being able to see him. I don't know if the ambush button was lit either, but he was NOT visible on my monitor.

Nightstrider

Forgot -- all racial passives, too.

The page is in german for me for some reason, so I have no ide what the edit button is.

Gilvoth

Nightstrider wrote: »

VR:14
Nightblade
Bosmer
Vampire

7/7 Medium Armor
Dual Wield/Bow

All class passives (each three sets)
All vampire passives.
All Medium Armor passives.
All Dual Wield Passives.
All Bow passives.
All Fighter's Guild passives.
All 2H Weapon passives.

Issues I've noticed:

Stealth radius is bugged to hell. Detection range for NPCs in VR10 zones and lower are like I'm playing a sorcerer with all light armor. As was mentioned before, sneaking through a room of baddies that you've snuck through a hundred times before, is now impossible without a potion or shadow cloak.

Passives affecting stealth are bugged. Half the time I'm moving in stealth it has a HUGE stamina drain. The rest of the time, it's the reduced rate from all the passives. If it's using the huge drain, unstealthing and restealthing has fixed it.

Opening shots from stealth are bugged. This may be because detection radius is borked, but often when hitting a target from behind (NPC or PC), they don't get stunned or extra damage. It may be because they are detecting you in midswing. I don't know.

Regaining stealth is very very often impossible in PvP. In non-solo/gank situations, like keep taking, I usually maintain a 1 death to 10-15 kill ratio. Now it's 1 in 5 if I'm lucky. Since the new patch, if I start a fight that I can't finish (more enemies join in, it's a DK with 72387540 points of armor), I cannot regain stealth through crouching or through shadow cloak. The eye remains open if I crouch, and cloak pops me in and out so fast I barely even see the red color. Other classes don't seem to have this problem!!! I see them crouch in stealth and disappear all the time while I'm fighting them and they are running away. Vampire characters will hit mist form and crouch while running away, and they're gone.

RARELY, shadow cloak will work and I'll be able to cloak out, run, cloak again before it expires, move some more, cloak again... hide behind a tree and when it's done... Oh look, they eye is wide open still. The bad guys are running in the other direction with mage light on, no clue where I am... I have no DoTs on anyone... and I'm sitting there with my head stuck in a tree trying to hide my health bar from anyone looking for it until 20 seconds or so pass by and the eye closes.

And that's on the NOOBS -- The smart players spam bombard/pulsar/whirling etc, the second you stealth, so you get pulled from it before you can even move.

A NEW TWIST: As for pulling people from stealth -- I was running along outside of Chalman last night, I pressed my 5 key (which on one bar is Haste, but I had my other bar on by accident), and activated Ambush. It went off, and I teleported onto a DC player who was sitting idle (I proceeded to kill him, of course). It looked like Ambush triggered on his stealth position like arrows and spells do, without even being able to see him. I don't know if the ambush button was lit either, but he was NOT visible on my monitor.

awesome post and all you mentioned is exactly what happens to me also.
great insight and wording, i only wish i could have said it as well as you did.

Garetth

ZOS_GinaBrunoadmin

3:02PMStaff Post

Ok everyone, thanks so much for your help and patience. We have identified what the main issue is here: both the racial passive Stealthy and the item set Nightshade are not currently working. We are hard at work fixing both of these, and apologize for the frustration this has caused. We'll let you know when you can expect to see the fix.


This may definitely be PART of the problem but I guarantee you it isn't all of the problem. You better check all the other racial and medium armor passives too.

This better not be some half-azzed fix you put through and then crow about how it's all fixed and move on to adding other stupid crap no one wants, leaving us NBs to suffer more.