Race Change Service

guybrushtb16_ESO

AlexDougherty wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Concepts like permanent decisions are simply obsolete in MMOs imo

That's the problem, permanent choices should exist.

Permanent choices should exist, assuming that the circumstances are permanent as well. This being an mmo, circumstances change all the time. Having you make a permanent choices in general is ok, but having you make them then altering the deal is not good design IMO. This is not even looking at the issue that this particular decision is made at a time where you can't reasonably be expected to know any of it's consequences.

Also, speaking of lore, one god changing a hero's race into something else does not sound out of the ordinary at all. There are a lot stranger things going on, with time trave at all. It may sound odd to have them do it all the time for everyone, but in the continuitiy of the game there really only is one player character anyway.

But the ultimate reason for it is: why does it concern you how I play my game? As long as you are not forced to do it, how does it hurt to give the option to people who want it?

AlexDougherty

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Concepts like permanent decisions are simply obsolete in MMOs imo

That's the problem, permanent choices should exist.

That's no problem, but simply my personal view. Reasoning for mine is, that permanent choices don't have to exist in games, because a permanent failure on one choice is a permanent hindrance of fun for as long as one plays that character.

In RL, such choices exist and one needs to live with them, but why should something preventing players from having fun be part of a game ?

Argument is also, that everybody paying for the race-respec, finances new content / bugfixes for the others.

I have no problem with respeccing your race, as I said earlier as long as I don't see it happening, I'm fine with it.

I just meant that games should have choices where we choose knowing it's permanent. We've gotten into the habit of making poor choices, then complaining about how we should be able to undo it.

I feel we need a few permanent choices in any game, so long as they don't render the game unplayable.

AlexDougherty

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Concepts like permanent decisions are simply obsolete in MMOs imo

That's the problem, permanent choices should exist.

Permanent choices should exist, assuming that the circumstances are permanent as well. This being an mmo, circumstances change all the time. Having you make a permanent choices in general is ok, but having you make them then altering the deal is not good design IMO. This is not even looking at the issue that this particular decision is made at a time where you can't reasonably be expected to know any of it's consequences.

True, if they alter something so much that a choice is made untenable then it's a different story. I'm not about making peoples life miserable, any permanent choice should still allow you to play the game.

But it's like the choice in ME1 where you decide who went where, and thus who died. It was a permanent choice (unless you uploaded a save file and redid it), and it affected the next two games. But not in a game-breaking way.

timidobserver

The immersion people will probably go insane if something like this were made available.

Talrenos

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

When are you going to allows us to pay for race changes? If you can't answer that then answer this: Do you have any plants, at all, to implement it this year or the next? Just asking cause I really want to change the race of my vet characters, and willing to throw away my money at ya zos.

Don't poke the bear! Race change could be a simple automated process that involves no humans at all. You could be limited to once a month to change your race per account and those that use it would be happy. We already paid $70 for the game, an extra $20 if you wanted to include a horse and the imperial race, and currently pay $15 per month. I already have over $100 invested in this game and do not with to give ZOS any ideas about generating another greedy money grab for no reason at all.

If ZOS really wants to be innovative in the MMO market, how about NOT charging for automated mundane services like gender/race/name changes....

Xeres14

If the race your character is makes THAT much a difference that one has a large advantage over the other 8 or 9 then there's class balance issues and ZO should address them.

Let people change their class for RL money if they want.

rotiferuk

brandon wrote:

That is completely different. In Skyrim it wasn't even an in-game way to change race it was using the console which are pretty much cheats to change race, eso isn't skyrim so it doesn't have a console to change race with. You can't use a cheat as a reason on why a mechanic should exist or not.

Skyrim allowed mods. There was a mod which allowed the player to change their character's race. I'm unsure why you would consider this type of mod to be cheating.

I agree, ESO is not Skyrim. If it was it would probably be called Skyrim Online. BTW, ESO does have a console, how do you think add-ons work?

Anyway, I was merely pointing out that race changes are in keeping with the ES franchise.

rotiferuk

AngryNord wrote: »

rotiferuk wrote: »

Using the console (PC version) in Skyrim allowed the player to change ALL aspects of their character at any time. So (IMHO) allowing it in ESO is in keeping with the the design concepts of the ES franchise.

So where's the console in ESO? :P

How do you think add-ons work, Altimer magic?

rotiferuk

AlexDougherty wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Concepts like permanent decisions are simply obsolete in MMOs imo

That's the problem, permanent choices should exist.

No one is forcing you to change your character's race.

madangrypally

I want a race change and expect they will eventually add a way to do it. Normally I would agree that changing race should not be allowed but ESO has had some drastic changes since release. The also have some weird game mechanics that new players would not have known about.

They need to either allow race change or buff a few of the racial passives and greatly balance them.

Hell they could make it part of Coldwells Gold reward. Once a character finishes it they have a re-customize option that changes race, looks, and gender as the character found their true selves. This also allows characters who discovered while leveling that they picked a very bad race.

AlexDougherty

rotiferuk wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Concepts like permanent decisions are simply obsolete in MMOs imo

That's the problem, permanent choices should exist.

No one is forcing you to change your character's race.

You missed my point.

Completely.

Aeratus

Xeres14 wrote: »

If the race your character is makes THAT much a difference that one has a large advantage over the other 8 or 9 then there's class balance issues and ZO should address them.

To me, the racials are very imbalanced. If you're into serious endgame PVE like trials, you'd probably agree unless you're already playing as one of the favored races (e.g., dunmer, breton, altmer, maybe imperial).

Merlin13KAGL

Figure out how much it's worth to you, and pay someone that amount to level another character and recreate your gear. No ZoS required.

You pay your $. You get your change. No one else need be affected, and anyone else that wishes to do the same can do so.

Sure you could hire the former gold farmers cheap.

There are 50 other ways to compensate for differences that racials provide. There is no justifiable reason to change race on an existing character.

There have been dozens of threads beating this same topic into the ground.

Next time, try This...

Arthur_Spoonfondle

Race choice should be meaningful, not a throwaway decision you can change any time you like. Allowing race change would just be the beginning of a slippery slope to a dumbed-down easy game for 5-year-olds, the kind Blizzard and Trion specialise in.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Figure out how much it's worth to you, and pay someone that amount to level another character and recreate your gear. No ZoS required.

You pay your $. You get your change. No one else need be affected, and anyone else that wishes to do the same can do so.

Sure you could hire the former gold farmers cheap.

Apart from the fact that gold-sellers are not trustworthy and that goldsellers cost at least 10 times as much as a respec should cost, I believe hiring someone to play your account is illegal.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »

Race choice should be meaningful, not a throwaway decision you can change any time you like. Allowing race change would just be the beginning of a slippery slope to a dumbed-down easy game for 5-year-olds, the kind Blizzard and Trion specialise in.

VR content nerf says Hi.

brandon

rotiferuk wrote: »

brandon wrote:

That is completely different. In Skyrim it wasn't even an in-game way to change race it was using the console which are pretty much cheats to change race, eso isn't skyrim so it doesn't have a console to change race with. You can't use a cheat as a reason on why a mechanic should exist or not.

Skyrim allowed mods. There was a mod which allowed the player to change their character's race. I'm unsure why you would consider this type of mod to be cheating.

I agree, ESO is not Skyrim. If it was it would probably be called Skyrim Online. BTW, ESO does have a console, how do you think add-ons work?

Anyway, I was merely pointing out that race changes are in keeping with the ES franchise.

What I mean is yes Skyrim allowed mods, but those are not part of the base game. They are not lore breaking because they weren't made by Bethesda. Bethesda already has lore on race changes and it doesn't work with what you guys want. Mods don't equal true lore (they are fan made if you don't know) so you can't use them as examples of how they are "in keeping with the ES franchise."

k9mouse

Skyrim is single player game and ESO is a MMO -- BIG BIG BIG differences! Do you want an apple or an orange with your sweetroll?? Skyrim did NOT let you change you race via a NPC dialog.

One must use the Dev console commands or a mod to do that. Those ways of changing race is out side of "normal" game play, thus one has to use "cheat tools" to do that. But Hey, it is a single player game and those actions does not hurt any one else.

However, ESO is a MMO and such actions DO AFFECT other people. I still think changing race in ESO is a dumb idea and SHOULD NOT be allow.

Karnus

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Karnus wrote: »

Zos, answer the question!
Do you have any plants, at all.

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

When are you going to allows us to pay for race changes? If you can't answer that then answer this: Do you have any plants, at all, to implement it this year or the next? Just asking cause I really want to change the race of my vet characters, and willing to throw away my money at ya zos.

Zos, answer the question!

Do you have any plants, at all.

Bring me a shrubbery!

Indeed! In order to stem the tide of these grassroots complaints Zos has to branch out and get to the root of these budding problems, after all, you reap what you sow and though ESO is just blooming, some thorny issues need to be nipped in the bud, hard as it may be to leaf through all of these posts and weed them out.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

Changing races is a terrible idea. Don't like your race? Role a new character.

tordr86b16_ESO

cgipervert wrote: »

Changing races is a terrible idea. Don't like your race? Role a new character.

how about... no.

tordr86b16_ESO

k9mouse wrote: »

However, ESO is a MMO and such actions DO AFFECT other people. I still think changing race in ESO is a dumb idea and SHOULD NOT be allow.

you like it raw i don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm7-YwUxjWY

Varicite

How exactly is changing one's race "lore-breaking", anyway?

Explorer's Pack exists. I'm already an Argonian in the Covenant. I'm already a Redguard in the Pact. I'm already a Breton in the Dominion.

How is race-changing any more lore-breaking than what is already currently in the game?

It's certainly not "pay to win", as none of the racials are game-breakingly powerful at all.

The choice of one's race comes at the character creation screen, when one is generally the least informed of what they are doing. If, after having invested many hours and learning much more about the game, a player comes to think that they made an error, or simply do not enjoy looking at their character, I don't believe it's any issue to rectify that problem.

Would I change my race? No, probably not, I roll multiples of a lot of the classes. Do I expect every other player to do exactly what I do, because that's the way that I did it? No, I don't.

Iago

No race change service, and this is why I say that.

You know I may be a bit off on this however it seems to me that the main reason people want a race change service is that they are to lazy to put in the effort starting from scratch with a new character. I'm not saying that's a bad thing (but it really is) Heaven forbid anyone actually put forth some effort. Most young video game players grew up with cheat codes and used them so they could win without any real work on their part. They expect to load up a game and be able to dominate it in a few hours......

This is why I am against race change service. If you don't like your race re roll it will be character building for you to do the extra work to get exactly what you want.

Teiji

Two words.

Faction change.

brandon

Varicite wrote: »

How exactly is changing one's race "lore-breaking", anyway?

Explorer's Pack exists. I'm already an Argonian in the Covenant. I'm already a Redguard in the Pact. I'm already a Breton in the Dominion.

How is race-changing any more lore-breaking than what is already currently in the game?

It's certainly not "pay to win", as none of the racials are game-breakingly powerful at all.

The choice of one's race comes at the character creation screen, when one is generally the least informed of what they are doing. If, after having invested many hours and learning much more about the game, a player comes to think that they made an error, or simply do not enjoy looking at their character, I don't believe it's any issue to rectify that problem.

Would I change my race? No, probably not, I roll multiples of a lot of the classes. Do I expect every other player to do exactly what I do, because that's the way that I did it? No, I don't.

The explorers pack isn't lore breaking because there will always be enemy races in each alliance. It's the simple fact that no matter what not everyone is a bad guy even in real life you have people considered bad guys and we live with the same race with no problems. We can use a real life example, most of the world is dealing with certain terrorist groups who are Muslims, meanwhile a lot of Muslims live among the U.S and U.K with no issue. So just because you are fighting with a specific group of people doesn't mean all of that race agrees with them. In the daggerfall covenant I see a lot of races that are in other alliances and they give you quests and I'm sure it's the same in the other factions.

So going with your reason of "none of the racials are game-breakingly powerful" why then are you and so many others pushing for it? If you don't think you made the right race choice then that must have a reason behind it. I think that reason is a way for you to change to the more powerful race of the moment otherwise known as the flavor of the month. In all honesty I don't see any reason why someone would change to another race after playing for so long as their race unless they have some sneaky reason for it. It would be pay to win for that very reason.

Varicite

brandon wrote: »

So going with your reason of "none of the racials are game-breakingly powerful" why then are you and so many others pushing for it? If you don't think you made the right race choice then that must have a reason behind it. I think that reason is a way for you to change to the more powerful race of the moment otherwise known as the flavor of the month. In all honesty I don't see any reason why someone would change to another race after playing for so long as their race unless they have some sneaky reason for it. It would be pay to win for that very reason.

You seem to have conveniently ignored the part where I said I most likely wouldn't even use such a feature.

I play multiples of most classes; 2 NBs, 3 DKs, 2 Sorcs, and 1 open spot. I also have the Explorer's Pack, so I can make any race anywhere.

I'm not "pushing" for anything, but I have no problem w/ others changing their race if they want to.

People want to do things like this for many reasons; racials certainly aren't the only one, which you can't seem to wrap your head around for some reason. Aesthetics, RP reasons, perhaps they feel they made a mistake at a time when they were the least knowledgeable about the game, etc.

Maybe somebody rolled a Breton Sorc thinking that they would enjoy the caster playstyle and after getting to VR10+, they realized that they really enjoy playing as a melee far more and wished they could have chosen something that fits just a little better?

Maybe they made twin lizards w/ their girlfriend and then broke up, and don't want to give up their character, but don't want to play as a lizard twin anymore?

Maybe they're manic and just can't stand to look at their kitty cat man?

Maybe they looked at the description of the racials on the character select screen and misunderstood what it meant, and when they were finally informed by other players that the racial doesn't actually do what they thought it did, they don't feel like rerolling entirely?

Who really cares why they want to do it? It doesn't effect me in any sort of meaningful way, so why should I have a problem w/ it, other than to just be a schmuck?

Devlinne

Let me give an example of why at least ONE race change per character should be granted.

FOR EXAMPLE:
You played during the bat swarm endless ulti generation days(before the fix to vamp ulti cost)
So u figured, u want a vamp sorcerer. Now the OPTIMUM choices for sorc would be altmer or breton. BUT to circumvent the fire damage a vamp suffers....u rolled Dunmer.
BAM. The vamp nerf hits. and you feel, it's not viable to be a vamp anymore. So u get rid off the vamp infection.....but now you're stuck with a dunmer sorc.....And u wanna play a traditional sorc. Say....Perhaps...Altmer.

So....is it your fault that ZOS changed a mechanic making a certain build/race type not as effective? You built your character based on the CURRENT STATE OF GAME AT THE TIME, and they changed the state of game.....

Think about it. ZOS changed a mechanic and YOU can't change to adapt? Is it right?

P.S: This is just an example....don't go into a debate over irrelavant points in the EXAMPLE....and try to see the CRUX of my post.

Thanks for reading.

Teiji

"I don't see any reason why someone would change to another race after playing for so long as their race unless they have some sneaky reason for it."

This!
You're all a bunch of scheming schemers! Plotting to try and pry away all the glory and heroism that exists solely for the magnificence, that which is Boethiah. You all have ulterior motives for posting on this holiest of holies, indubiously so. It's clear that none of you care about the health of this game nor the lore! Because if you did, if you did you'd realise the extreme controversy and dramatic danger that would be birthed from a race change service, did I mention about how much of a threat to the health and lore of this game It presents?

First comes the race change service, next It's Nords roleplaying as Khajiit
"This one thinks you're a soft and mushy milk drinking swit! Kyne be praised should you turn up missing this Morndas!"

If you're serious about this game being successful, as well as the health and lore of this game being appropriately appropriated. You'll say no to equal rights for the beast-races. They're practically sentient Senche and Guar and shouldn't walk on the same side of the street as us to say the very least, let alone be playable races.

This thread amuses me, you'll have to forgive this Dunmer enthusiast in feeling inclined to join in with this incoherent amusement park, It's quite entertaining and educational. My tin foil hat couldn't resist.

brandon

Varicite wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

So going with your reason of "none of the racials are game-breakingly powerful" why then are you and so many others pushing for it? If you don't think you made the right race choice then that must have a reason behind it. I think that reason is a way for you to change to the more powerful race of the moment otherwise known as the flavor of the month. In all honesty I don't see any reason why someone would change to another race after playing for so long as their race unless they have some sneaky reason for it. It would be pay to win for that very reason.

You seem to have conveniently ignored the part where I said I most likely wouldn't even use such a feature.

I play multiples of most classes; 2 NBs, 3 DKs, 2 Sorcs, and 1 open spot. I also have the Explorer's Pack, so I can make any race anywhere.

I'm not "pushing" for anything, but I have no problem w/ others changing their race if they want to.

People want to do things like this for many reasons; racials certainly aren't the only one, which you can't seem to wrap your head around for some reason. Aesthetics, RP reasons, perhaps they feel they made a mistake at a time when they were the least knowledgeable about the game, etc.

Maybe somebody rolled a Breton Sorc thinking that they would enjoy the caster playstyle and after getting to VR10+, they realized that they really enjoy playing as a melee far more and wished they could have chosen something that fits just a little better?

Maybe they made twin lizards w/ their girlfriend and then broke up, and don't want to give up their character, but don't want to play as a lizard twin anymore?

Maybe they're manic and just can't stand to look at their kitty cat man?

Maybe they looked at the description of the racials on the character select screen and misunderstood what it meant, and when they were finally informed by other players that the racial doesn't actually do what they thought it did, they don't feel like rerolling entirely?

Who really cares why they want to do it? It doesn't effect me in any sort of meaningful way, so why should I have a problem w/ it, other than to just be a schmuck?

Ok lets go through this one at a time.

1 I doubt someone who is into RP would use a race change option that clearly breaks most RPers immersion.

2 I can understand someone misreading descriptions, but most people would realize their mistake pretty soon after and if they are that lazy and unwilling to reroll something that would take them 15 minutes then that's their fault.

3 If they can't stand looking at their "kitty cat man" why make it in the first place?

4 Again if they don't think their toon is pretty then they shouldn't have finished character creation until they thought he was.

5 As for the "lizard twins" as sucky as that situation may be I do not see a reason why relationship issues should be a reason to add a race change to the game. That would be on the same level as people who get a tattoo of their significant others name and then they break up.

6 That's the beauty of this game you can change your style on one character. This isn't any other mmo where if you choose a style you have to stick with it and not do anything that doesn't work with it.

It breaks lore that's why it effects me and a lot of other people. If it didn't break lore I wouldn't have an issue with it. This isn't WoW or any other mmo, this game is based on a franchise that specializes in lore.