Upcoming Werewolf Changes

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

It all sounds nice, but it also sounds like it is just at an early planning stage which means it will take many months before we see anything.....

Why did it have to take 5 months for you to begin work on this?

Iduyenn

"Woouuuuuuuuuuuu" *dancing like a dog*

First: Thank you Zenimax. I feared you have forgotten the childeren of Hircine.

But, non the less, i have a few humble suggestions and worries. Hopefully you can give some light in it.

The transformation will be cheaper, that is great. But some problems will stay the same.
For example is the timeline and the stress to stay in form the same. The new abbilities have no place in this small timeframe. You see... we can`t realy use them...

In Cyrodiil hunting will be as always. If you have only x seconds to attack and kill and feed on a player... we will be dead and even with more damge... it will bring us more pain than gain. My dream of hunting in my pack will still be impossible...
But... theoretically that is the main purpose of us pack animals... we hunt together. Our passive abbilities support this!

Roleplaying will be the same old thing. You can`t go on a wild hunt with your RP-Buddies. Remember... we are all puppies dancing in the woods.
If you fear some immersion Problems with cities full of packanimals... you are working on a justice system right?

An other prblem adressing ressources: I am a Templar. Why should I reroll to a DK only, because i need the passives? Don`t get me wrong... i like the scaling and where you are going with it... but all classes should have the same startingground...

But... the fact, that Zenimax is doing something about werewolf is great. For me it is the reason, why i will pay my suscription again...

Greetings from swizzerland

Idu

PS: One proposition: Why not taking Magicka and Magickareg as the main source for werewolf-form-duration?
It would be perfect... some players will be a bit longer in werewolfshape, others will not, because they focus on weaponpower and stamina to improve their damage...
It would give a whole new perspective to a pack hunt. Some wolves will use as much magicka as possible, to provide the group with their passives... the others will be the warriors... focussing on stamina and weaponpower...

But anyway... you are doing something and that is why i will be a grateful and good behaving puppy...

liquid_wolf

I like what I see. For PvE this will probably be very nice. I will definitely be testing these changes, and give feedback.

I have my doubts on PvP, passives, and the transformation time... but one thing at a time.

Arsenic_Touch

Still doesn't address the lack of any useful passives for non transformed werewolves. That's one of the biggest problems people have, why is it constantly ignored?

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

It all sounds nice, but it also sounds like it is just at an early planning stage which means it will take many months before we see anything.....

Why did it have to take 5 months for you to begin work on this?

The real question is why it took them 5 months to even comment on it. This was a big problem since the beta testing.

Fellwitch

I agree with Arsenic on the passives

UrQuan

I like what I see - especially the new WW active abilities. Having said that, here are my concerns/suggestions:
- Decreasing the ultimate cost is nice, but I suspect we'd all prefer for the transformation to last longer instead (or have it as a toggle, but that's another story).
- There's currently only 1 passive that affects you when you're not in WW form (the one that gives you ultimate when you're damaged), so for the time when you're not in WW form (which is the vast majority of the time) you're at a significant disadvantage over non-werewolves due to the poison vulnerability and the fighters' guild ability vulnerability. I'd like to see at least 1 new passive added that affects you in non-WW form. One that mimics the wolf ability from the Grahtwood Briars quest would seem appropriate.

charley222

great news thank you

eventide03b14a_ESO

MorHawk wrote: »

A stamina-based self-heal? I can see that one being popular.

Probably can only use it in werewolf form so I wouldn't get too excited.

MorHawk

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

A stamina-based self-heal? I can see that one being popular.

Probably can only use it in werewolf form so I wouldn't get too excited.

Probably. Having said that, allowing folks to use it freely would go a long way towards helping with the line's usefulness while not transformed.

Xsorus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our team has been paying attention to the feedback you’re sharing about the werewolf skill line, and we’re ready to tell you about some of the changes we’re considering to improve the gameplay experience for all you followers of Hircine out there. We’re interested in seeing what you think!

First off, we’re planning to reduce the cost of transforming into a werewolf. The current costs feel too high, and we want you to be able to transform more frequently. We’ve also fixed a bug that prevented you from using the CC Break ability in werewolf form.

We want to make a few changes to damage scaling and the Savage Strength passive that will give you a little more burst potential and allow your gear upgrades to affect damage output in a more meaningful way. Savage Strength will offer a flat increase to power instead of stacking multiple times. The bonus is a bit lower to balance the change out, but overall you’ll have more ability to deal burst damage. We want light and heavy attacks to additionally scale off of weapon power (instead of just maximum stamina), and for Pounce and its morphs to scale off of weapon power instead of spell power.

Finally, we’ll be adding some all-new werewolf abilities to give you more combat options. Here’s what we’ve come up with (we’ll have more about the morphs in the future and would love to know what you’d like to see):

• Hircine’s Bounty: This is a self-heal ability that gives you more survivability.
• Piercing Howl: An ability that damages and knocks an enemy down.
• Infectious Claws: A swipe attack that deals disease damage to multiple foes.

There you have it! Tell us what you think about the changes, which will be coming online in a future game update. Happy hunting!

That could be nice...

Dissentinel

I'm not a Werewolf, but what if it were a toggle where attacking and using WW abilities drained Ultimate and feeding supplied you with Ultimate?

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Eternalflame wrote: »

I'm not a Werewolf, but what if it were a toggle where attacking and using WW abilities drained Ultimate and feeding supplied you with Ultimate?

That would make too much sense for this game.

Tyr

Samadhi wrote: »

Regarding input on Morphs for the new skills.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

...
Finally, we’ll be adding some all-new werewolf abilities to give you more combat options. Here’s what we’ve come up with (we’ll have more about the morphs in the future and would love to know what you’d like to see):

• Hircine’s Bounty: This is a self-heal ability that gives you more survivability.
• Piercing Howl: An ability that damages and knocks an enemy down.
• Infectious Claws: A swipe attack that deals disease damage to multiple foes.

There you have it! Tell us what you think about the changes, which will be coming online in a future game update. Happy hunting!

Hircine's Bounty
I love that Werewolf finally has a much needed self heal.
I would like to see Morph options as follows
Morph 1: Adds temporary damage reduction (not armour or spell resistance! Straight reduction like Nords get!) buff for 5 seconds after casting. Duration remains constant, but damage reduction effect scales per level.
Morph 2: Adds 5 seconds to Werewolf timer with activation.

Piercing Howl
As this skill is a single-target CC effect, I see good opportunity to turn the morphs into synergistic effects that can help different playstyles.
Morph 1: Pouncing on an enemy affected by Howl heals for 25% of damage inflicted.
Morph 2: Weapon Damage and Critical rating are increased while attacking an enemy that is affected by Howl.
Alternatively: perhaps a morph should increase Stamina Regeneration.

Infectious Claws
I love the idea behind this skill even as its base morph. It was hard to think of how morphs may improve it.
Morph 1: also adds a damage over time effect to all targets
Morph 2: also immobilizes all affected targets for 1.5 seconds

These are just quick draft ideas I had; I may come back and offer something better, but these felt like they fit without being too overpowered.

These are really good.
a few things i would change:
Infectious claws:
Morph 1: Open Wounds: Reduces Healing taken(instead of DOT)
Morph 2: Ataxia: movement speed reduction(immobilize would be OP probably)

Thejollygreenone

Tyr wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Regarding input on Morphs for the new skills.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

...
Finally, we’ll be adding some all-new werewolf abilities to give you more combat options. Here’s what we’ve come up with (we’ll have more about the morphs in the future and would love to know what you’d like to see):

• Hircine’s Bounty: This is a self-heal ability that gives you more survivability.
• Piercing Howl: An ability that damages and knocks an enemy down.
• Infectious Claws: A swipe attack that deals disease damage to multiple foes.

There you have it! Tell us what you think about the changes, which will be coming online in a future game update. Happy hunting!

Hircine's Bounty
I love that Werewolf finally has a much needed self heal.
I would like to see Morph options as follows
Morph 1: Adds temporary damage reduction (not armour or spell resistance! Straight reduction like Nords get!) buff for 5 seconds after casting. Duration remains constant, but damage reduction effect scales per level.
Morph 2: Adds 5 seconds to Werewolf timer with activation.

Piercing Howl
As this skill is a single-target CC effect, I see good opportunity to turn the morphs into synergistic effects that can help different playstyles.
Morph 1: Pouncing on an enemy affected by Howl heals for 25% of damage inflicted.
Morph 2: Weapon Damage and Critical rating are increased while attacking an enemy that is affected by Howl.
Alternatively: perhaps a morph should increase Stamina Regeneration.

Infectious Claws
I love the idea behind this skill even as its base morph. It was hard to think of how morphs may improve it.
Morph 1: also adds a damage over time effect to all targets
Morph 2: also immobilizes all affected targets for 1.5 seconds

These are just quick draft ideas I had; I may come back and offer something better, but these felt like they fit without being too overpowered.

These are really good.
a few things i would change:
Infectious claws:
Morph 1: Open Wounds: Reduces Healing taken(instead of DOT)
Morph 2: Ataxia: movement speed reduction(immobilize would be OP probably)

The reduced healing taken would be a bit redundant, I feel. The only reason ever uses disease damage anyway is that it has a passive chance to proc for reduced healing taken anyway.

If you add in the same effect to the ability peripherally, it kinda takes away from the point of it being disease damage other than the aesthetic aspect, imo.

Tyr

[

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Still doesn't address the lack of any useful passives for non transformed werewolves. That's one of the biggest problems people have, why is it constantly ignored?

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

It all sounds nice, but it also sounds like it is just at an early planning stage which means it will take many months before we see anything.....

Why did it have to take 5 months for you to begin work on this?

The real question is why it took them 5 months to even comment on it. This was a big problem since the beta testing.

The werewolf doesn't need humanoid passives. Humanoid werewolves are just plain humans with werewolf souls.
Adding 3 more abilities to WW means you've effectively got a third set full set of abilities which Vampires don't have.
Of course werewolf should be able to do the highest burst damage in the game because you sacrifice an ultimate and all other abilities for it.

If a WW speced into burst damage can't crush literally any other non-WW 1 v 1 or in a pack in melee range then it's not balanced properly.

In the TES universe, encountering a WW means keep them at a distance or die.

CapuchinSeven

MorHawk wrote: »

A stamina-based self-heal? I can see that one being popular.

I'd only really be interested in using it out of wolf form I think.

Tendeep

The current issues I see, that are not being addressed are the balancing issues compared to Vamp skill line and an accurate time-frame for making any changes go live... we have already been forced to wait beyond a reasonable amount of time.

• Time in WW form is still too short, regardless of Ultimate cost.
• The transformation animation is long and clunky
• No benefits while in human form - skills or passives - compared to vamp, this is very poor at the moment, if this is intended, then please make up for it with slightly OP skills while transformed.
• Vamp skills currently improve the character with passives, and only make them stronger with fantastic skills, that can be used AT ANY TIME.
• WW is not able to use any of their skills at will - Simply take a loot at Bat Swarm, great Ultimate spam-able, while all ours allows is a transformation into a weak being
• Armor for WW is horrible, no defense buffs, not only do we need a damage increase, but defense increase, large HP buff, etc.
• Regen? Super human, WW like regens? Vamps get a drain that regens Stam and HP, we have nothing, how does this make sense.
• If Piercing Howl lasts 2-4 seconds, it will be worth it, if not, useless, since we have no CC.
• Slightly increase run speed, as of now, certain armor sets allow certain classes with vamp sneak boost to probably out run a WW lol

Someone else mentioned this - this is huge! Right now we are a huge... easily killed target in PvP:

Lastly, on a personal note, you can't sneak while in ww form. This really disturbs me, since as a stamina based player sneaking is the only thing I'm competent at in PvP. I'd like to be able to slip out from stealth alone, kill a player in ww form, then be able to still slip back into stealth after the player is dead and others are approaching like I would normally.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Yaaay Gina! WWs r gettin some love! ...and yaaay Jess (I think. Did my begging really work?- lol I'm sure I wasn't the only one). I've been holding off b/c of all the issues but now it seems it pays to be a half human/half canine. Now I just need some WW to bite me... ;-)

BTW Thanks guys!

Lord Stark

I think these changes sound great and are a definite step in the right direction! One thing I didn't like though is it seems a little like you are trying a little too hard to prevent this from being OP, saying things like "a bit lower " in your first paragraph and "The bonus is a bit lower" in the last one, I don't know.. as long as the Werewolf fans have waited for this, we'd hate to see lack luster changes and still feel second to Vampires, as it stands I don't know anyone who doesn't run Bats in pvp unless its out of pure spite or lack of knowledge of the current state of pvp.. I cured Werewolf despite not wanting to, and am currently playing as a Vamp despite my feelings towards it because it would be stupid not to with how good Bats and Mistform are.
Thanks for hearing us out and working on the problem though regardless of what changes you do and don't make.

ZunaRoath

I really like this changes, thank you ZOS. I'm just going to comment something I would really like to happen to the werewolves...

What about... If in full moons nights werewolf players are forced to transform him/herself into werewolf, and his/her powers increase. It would make sense. Maybe something like this could happen to vampires, in new moons, their power could increase.

This would be awesome! Also, removing the Devour timer : / Please!

Thanks Zenimax! ^^

EDIT: Ah!! Please, change this werewolf animations xD Something like Skyrim werewolves animation would be awesome : D

88mister88b16_ESO

hope there will be a fix for stamina regen first and for most

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

It is nice to see something is being done. And thank you for showing us this and asking for our input directly. This means a lot.

For my input, I would have to agree that the transformation should be a toggle, with werewolf form making you attack-on-site in the cities with the new justice system, this should keep most of us wolves docile while in the cities.

We need to get some percentage of the passives while in human form. Werewolves even in human form are stronger than normal humans. Since we are stuck with the sensitivity to poison, which I have no problem with us keeping, we should get some benefit in human form.

Devour can become a out of combat heal type ability.

There should be a Bite attack that bleeds the target for a small heal for the WW.

Create a new Ultimate that, like all other classes can be used in combat. There are already many, many suggestions on what this can be. Take your pick and run with the ball.

I do like the Infectious Claws, very nice.

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

Fellwitch wrote: »

Lastly, is there any chance for the berserker model to be made black?

Thanks!!

This, please?

jgc471980

@ the developers
This is Very VERY important

Will you also please fix the Colour Skins please also

1: Berserker Black Skin With red eyes
2: Pack - White With Yellow eyes

rophez_ESO

I would like to add that WW need a few passives that affect their human form in a positive way. Why are there cool passives for vamps and none for WW?

Some ideas:

• Passive run speed increase and stamina regen increase.
• Passive regeneration (you heal x% of health every 20 seconds)
• Ferocity - bonus crit damage with melee attacks
• Heightened senses (% chance to dodge incoming attacks)

You get the idea - I'm not saying we should have all of those, but any of them or something along those lines would be nice.

Patchgrabber

This sounds really good, thanks Gina for posting this info, it's great to see you guys paying attention to what we've been saying about wanting to be kept in the loop. I like the additional combat move ideas, interesting stuff. Only thing I'd also like to see is some small bonus in human form, like a run speed increase. Can't wait!

helediron

How about +50% sprint speed passive; to catch us speedsneaking vamps?

Docmandu

Maybe as an always on passive, give WW's the glowy targeting effect you get when using Expert Hunter.. afterall, a wolf should be able to sniff out undead !

Evandus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our team has been paying attention to the feedback you’re sharing about the werewolf skill line, and we’re ready to tell you about some of the changes we’re considering to improve the gameplay experience for all you followers of Hircine out there. We’re interested in seeing what you think!

First off, we’re planning to reduce the cost of transforming into a werewolf. The current costs feel too high, and we want you to be able to transform more frequently. We’ve also fixed a bug that prevented you from using the CC Break ability in werewolf form.

We want to make a few changes to damage scaling and the Savage Strength passive that will give you a little more burst potential and allow your gear upgrades to affect damage output in a more meaningful way. Savage Strength will offer a flat increase to power instead of stacking multiple times. The bonus is a bit lower to balance the change out, but overall you’ll have more ability to deal burst damage. We want light and heavy attacks to additionally scale off of weapon power (instead of just maximum stamina), and for Pounce and its morphs to scale off of weapon power instead of spell power.

Finally, we’ll be adding some all-new werewolf abilities to give you more combat options. Here’s what we’ve come up with (we’ll have more about the morphs in the future and would love to know what you’d like to see):

• Hircine’s Bounty: This is a self-heal ability that gives you more survivability.
• Piercing Howl: An ability that damages and knocks an enemy down.
• Infectious Claws: A swipe attack that deals disease damage to multiple foes.

There you have it! Tell us what you think about the changes, which will be coming online in a future game update. Happy hunting!

Greetings!

While I agree with the development strategy being displayed currently I have some concerns I'd like to share. My primary concern lies with the issue of passives. When compared to it's other supernatural counterpart, Vampire, the passives seem rather lacking. And I believe part of this problem is found in the transformation mechanic as it's currently implemented.

Reducing the cost for transformation is something I applaud. Much needed imo. I'm wondering why though the entire transformation mechanic couldn't be redone to something akin to what the Sorcerer class has in regard to Overload. By making the transformation a toggle, it adds a lot of versatility to the skill line. The player could have much more control over when to take werewolf form, how long, and use the abilities strategically. My question to you and the dev team is why can't this be done? It's been suggest numerous times over the last few months.

Also the passive situation. Since the WW has to manage two forms (with the transformed form being the damage dealer) shouldn't the humanoid form receive more passive benefit? There doesn't appear to be any damage reduction involved, even though IIRC the WW in previous ES games walked around with their silver or better resistance in humanoid form? Power gaming aside, most people who will take this skill line I think will have trouble surviving a fight long enough to transform and use their abilities.

I really like the disease damage idea from Infectious Claws. Since disease damage reduces healing, the potential to strike fear and loathing in an open battlefield looks great! Looking at the numbers provided by Hircine's Bounty will be telling regarding their survivability. Werewolves cannot run around using other class skills as their supernatural counterpart, the Vampire, can.

Overall, I'm looking forward to seeing these changes in action. When can we expect them?

Chrlynsch

Being a selfish dk I will miss the large ultimate cost... but overall happy about the path they are on.