Do You Want Progressive Raiding in ESO?

Tabbycat

First, I'll start with the most common definition of progressive raiding: Large group content typically consisting of anywhere between 10 and 40 players that takes place in an instanced zone filled with a number of encounters that get progressively more difficult as you work your way through the instance. A number of "boss encounters" are required to be completed before being granted access to the final "boss encounter" which has certain systems in place to make the fight long and difficult. Usually Progressive raids take months to master although more skilled groups may be able to clear them sooner. Bosses tend to have "enrage timers" requiring groups to kill them within a set amount of time before they enrage and wipe out the entire party.

Personally, I like the idea of them but I've never really invested a whole lot of time and effort into them. So, I am more or less neutral on the subject.

Navuri

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

I think it will add more excitement to the game and also will give a great sense of achievement when actually finishing and completing a raid. The people who are against it probably say it won't be good for the longevity of the game, but then take a look at their 2 V12 characters and you'll know who has been rushing the ESO content. Bring on the raids. I'm all for.

Tabbycat

I'm not sure. I think that...

I like the idea of progressive raiding and I think it will be good for the longevity of the game. But I think that ZOS would have to be very careful in how they implement it in order to make sure that it fits the world of Elder Scrolls while at the same time doesn't result in too much player separation.

DungeonGrind

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

4 man progressive dungeon crawling is more what i would like, so i voted yes.

Falmer

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

That's honestly kind of what I expected for the "endgame" content. Raids into various realms of oblivion, fighting off daedra hordes or encountering the various daedra lords themselves.

Kind of like the Vox raids of the original everquest. That is what I supposed Veteran content to entail, not being forced to re-do content over and over in the other alliances.

ebondeath

I'm not sure. I think that...

My opinion is only for my own experience. I have no idea what would be best for the game.

I'm torn. I did the raiding treadmill for four years, and I liked it. I left because I finally got tired of people who couldn't commit and raid leaders who thought it was acceptable to yell and curse at people. I don't have the drive or the energy to find another group of people that I can get along with and have synergy with, and raiding with people I like is a dealbreaker. I don't like pugging with strangers.

If they ended up implementing the traditional raiding gear grind, I know I'd be bound to get sucked up back into and and I'm not sure that that's what I want from my gaming experience anymore. Not that I have anything against other people wanting it and I wouldn't hate the game if they did add them. But I think if I wanted a raiding fix, I'd just go back to WoW. I like this game because it feels slow and relaxing compared to a raiding environment.

Csub

I'm not sure. I think that...

I myself am usually not that hardcore endgame player, I am not even vet 12 yet despite playing since early access, so I can't say it is a must as it is not.

However, I also don't say it should never be implemented as I know it would attract a lot of people and who knows, I might even like it. Still, not sure if it would attract the right kind of crowd.

If they managed to implement it in a way that raiders, crafters, less hardcore people and PvPers can still be around the same level with gears, why not? The more options we have, the better it is for everyone.

Mondo

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

this [snip] would destroy the Game! If you want that go play any other MMO but not Elder Scrolls!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

khele23eb17_ESO

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

I think they have the numbers right - 12 man raids seem to be the right size for ESO. The difficulty and complexity of the fights that needs to go up (tho for that to happen they need to balance builds first). Itemization needs a change too.

Vahrokh

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

I have been very hard core raider for years (in First 10 Worldwide Kills guilds) and have done up to 40 men raids with a lot of interest. So it is very painful for me to say "No".

Imo ESO has a lore, a philosophy centered on the "Epic group of 4-5 heroes" or "Company of [Epic Name]". Something closer to Tolkien relatively small and tight protagonist groups than to the "armies" of somewhat faceless team mates.

Also, the era of huge raids is over, the playerbase has changed and tends to have less "continuous span" time for these activities, beginning with me.

Finally, those kinds of raids come almost naturally with gear and stats inflation and historically this has a bad effect on PvP and also on "outdoor PvE".
Yes PvE too, because a kitted raider can solo the impossible so the developers have to either see those raiders complain how content is super-easy AND "normal players" complaining raiders are insta-killing everything and leave them nothing OR the developers would make outdoor PvE too difficult for all but those raiders.

kitsinni

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Yes at this point give us anything to work towards after you have done the PvE content out there. Other than losing/taking the same keeps in Cyrodil day in and day out there is nothing left to do once you are V12. Anything that gets people actually playing the game I am all for. We got Vet CoH great! Now after 12 hours of spamming for a group and sitting in the queue you still can't find people to do the stupid thing. We need reasons to attempt the content.

DeLindsay

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

It's already coming with Dragonstar Arena. Yes that's 4 player but it's the same concept. If players end up liking that they could easily expand it to 12 player size. And to @Mondo lol man, just lol.

Rune_Relic

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

Scripted dungeons are predictable and hence repeatable. Many people like trying to get better and better to use it as training. I think training areas should be used for training.

For me, I prefer the idea of building environments and populating those areas with the creatures that belong there that behave in a random way. This of course requires a reason to go to that place and encounter those creatures of varying difficulty along the way as you travel through their natural habitat. This could be to gain possession of an item or location or kill/rescue someone.

In a nut shell ..scripted repeatable content isn't really the kind of problem I want to face. I prefer the challenge of the unknown and having to adapt or die. It requires caution, skill and badassery IMO rather than the treadmill mentality.

Zenimax doesn't have to worry about specific dungeons and such then. They can be open world dead ends that you really, really want to avoid without an exceptional reason to go there.

Anastasia

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Mondo wrote: »

this sh.t would destroy the Game! If you want that go play any other MMO but not Elder Scrolls!

---

We aren't playing Elder Scrolls here, we are playing The Elder Scrolls Online MMO, an mmorpg with an ES setting, well into the future along with fun easter eggs and some familiar elements from ES solo player games.

TESO=MMO with a 'tad' of ES flavor.

Mondo

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

It might be a MMO but it is not like others and it should not be like others

Wifeaggro13

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Tabbycat wrote: »

First, I'll start with the most common definition of progressive raiding: Large group content typically consisting of anywhere between 10 and 40 players that takes place in an instanced zone filled with a number of encounters that get progressively more difficult as you work your way through the instance. A number of "boss encounters" are required to be completed before being granted access to the final "boss encounter" which has certain systems in place to make the fight long and difficult. Usually Progressive raids take months to master although more skilled groups may be able to clear them sooner. Bosses tend to have "enrage timers" requiring groups to kill them within a set amount of time before they enrage and wipe out the entire party.

Personally, I like the idea of them but I've never really invested a whole lot of time and effort into them. So, I am more or less neutral on the subject.

The current trial system is very lacking it does not foster any community bonding . it only promotes lame zerging and elitism by people who think they are elite . True progressive raiding with out timing and limited resurections are needed. as well as larger less linear four man dungeon content

kitsinni

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Mondo wrote: »

It might be a MMO but it is not like others and it should not be like others

Why not exactly? Why reinvent the wheel?

The people who wanted this to be Skyrim Online left in droves because it wasn't a traditional ES game. Now the people that want to play MMOs are leaving in droves because there isn't enough MMO to the game.

If there is already a known model for what works and keeps customers in MMOs why not embrace it, this will NEVER be skyrim online?

Kego

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

I like the PvP Part and the focus should be right there and with the crafting. There are a lot better MMOs out there with Progressive Raiding Content and ZOS will never be competitive to them. (They couldn't even fix the Magicka vs Stamina inbalance in DMG Builds until now)

There for, keep focus on improving PvP and add some new Zones and easy peasy Causal Raids / 4 Man Dungeons for some fun benethe PvP.

kitsinni

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Kego wrote: »

I like the PvP Part and the focus should be right there and with the crafting. There are a lot better MMOs out there with Progressive Raiding Content and ZOS will never be competitive to them. (They couldn't even fix the Magicka vs Stamina inbalance in DMG Builds until now)

There for, keep focus on improving PvP and add some new Zones and easy peasy Causal Raids / 4 Man Dungeons for some fun benethe PvP.

So if I understand what you are saying you prefer PvP so the PvE Crowd can go screw themselves because you just don't care about them?

drogon1

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Absolutely. ZoS has proven to me they can make fun and creative dungeons - the dungeons are terrific fun (at least pre-VR where I'm at). They need the PvE crowd for the longevity of the game, and this would be one way to do it.

khele23eb17_ESO

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Vahrokh wrote: »

I
Imo ESO has a lore, a philosophy centered on the "Epic group of 4-5 heroes" or "Company of [Epic Name]". Something closer to Tolkien relatively small and tight protagonist groups than to the "armies" of somewhat faceless team mates.

You already have 12 man content. Make it challenging. Add more bosses, itemization and progression. Done.

Finally, those kinds of raids come almost naturally with gear and stats inflation and historically this has a bad effect on PvP and also on "outdoor PvE".
Yes PvE too, because a kitted raider can solo the impossible so the developers have to either see those raiders complain how content is super-easy AND "normal players" complaining raiders are insta-killing everything and leave them nothing OR the developers would make outdoor PvE too difficult for all but those raiders.

Im my experience hardcore raiders dont go out and farm lowbie-mobs to extinction. In what game did you encounter this?

As for stat inflation in PvP: caps.

drogon1

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Scripted dungeons are predictable and hence repeatable. Many people like trying to get better and better to use it as training. I think training areas should be used for training.

For me, I prefer the idea of building environments and populating those areas with the creatures that belong there that behave in a random way. This of course requires a reason to go to that place and encounter those creatures of varying difficulty along the way as you travel through their natural habitat. This could be to gain possession of an item or location or kill/rescue someone.

In a nut shell ..scripted repeatable content isn't really the kind of problem I want to face. I prefer the challenge of the unknown and having to adapt or die. It requires caution, skill and badassery IMO rather than the treadmill mentality.

Zenimax doesn't have to worry about specific dungeons and such then. They can be open world dead ends that you really, really want to avoid without an exceptional reason to go there.

Everything in a vid game is scripted, except PvP. The problem with new open zones is that they are generally accessible to everyone, and typically soloable and faceroll - and this will not be enough to keep hardcore PvE'ers interested. Hardcore PvE'ers need hardcore PvE: difficult, group-based instanced content.

Laura

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

the current raids are complete and total trash, to be honest.

I am an elder scrolls nut but I still expect some robust end game, there is a reason hardly anyone does them and there is a reason I see a massive turnover rate in my raiding guilds as soon as they see the trials a couple of times. There is NO END GAME. NONE. Time trials are not going to fill that void.

Of course real raiding has its place in the elder scrolls universe... why wouldn't it? I would say that hot pink dyes and time trials have less to do with elder scrolls.

If you don't enjoy it - don't do them. Its that simple. What do people expect to be made just a bunch of solo content in an MMO?

Whenever I help a new batch of people run through the trials they are initially excited then when you say "you just killed the last boss" there voice immediately goes to sheer disappointment.

I'm sorry there is no real argument against it and if you are one of the people who claim to "play the way you want" then you would only be contradicting yourself. Should there be multiple difficulties so puggers and easy gamers could do them? Absolutely. Should there be a mode that challenges meta gamers. yes.

This would not make the game WoW. Raiding has gone as far back as UO - the WoW argument is silly and I could make a hundred arguments like that. "questing is wow, levels are wow, forums are wow, abilities are wow"

This game can (and frankly will have to) cater to different types of players and the current trials are absolutely unsustainable. There is nothing to do but these trials and pvp in end game and quite frankly most people are bored of it or have already quit. I have seen this serious lack of real raiding kill the enthusiasm of even the biggest ESO fans.

Mondo

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

@kitsi you wanna raid? You wanna new gear all the time you wanna play like others then go play others. WoW should be really cool for you^^

i dont want to have to go to raids all the time for gear just to stay state of the art. And when i get it i have to get new one.... that sucks... thats why i quit wow after many years and thats why i quit others

Kego

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

kitsinni wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

I like the PvP Part and the focus should be right there and with the crafting. There are a lot better MMOs out there with Progressive Raiding Content and ZOS will never be competitive to them. (They couldn't even fix the Magicka vs Stamina inbalance in DMG Builds until now)

There for, keep focus on improving PvP and add some new Zones and easy peasy Causal Raids / 4 Man Dungeons for some fun benethe PvP.

So if I understand what you are saying you prefer PvP so the PvE Crowd can go screw themselves because you just don't care about them?

Jep, you are right. If you want more than Causal Raids, go else where. There is Wildstar, WoW and I'm sure some more of it. An MMO can't be good with every kind of Content, so there should be a focus and if I look at ESO than there strengh is Story Telling in PVE and the Cyrodiil PvP.

Nox_Aeterna

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

Personally i would not like that.

Even if ESO is also a themepark MMO , progressive raiding have their place on games like WoW.

I would prefer if ESO took another road, even more because usually this would brings the need for raiding gear , which is usually the best in the game , an issue in ESO where the best gear should come from crafting.

kieso

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

[Snip]

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Laura

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Personally i would not like that.

Even if ESO is also a themepark MMO , progressive raiding have their place on games like WoW.

I would prefer if ESO took another road, even more because usually this would brings the need for raiding gear , which is usually the best in the game , an issue in ESO where the best gear should come from crafting.

why should the best gear come from crafting? its dumb and annoying. It would be one thing if crafting was actually difficult or materials were hard to come by but as it is you get to max level and BAM your BIS in two minutes.

Having crafting be best in slot while simultaneously making crafting easier than in any other game was literally the dumbest idea I have ever seen.

kitsinni

Yes, I think progressive raiding would be good for the longevity of the game.

Mondo wrote: »

@kitsi you wanna raid? You wanna new gear all the time you wanna play like others then go play others. WoW should be really cool for you^^

i dont want to have to go to raids all the time for gear just to stay state of the art. And when i get it i have to get new one.... that sucks... thats why i quit wow after many years and thats why i quit others

If you want PvP go play WoW lol. They already stated that they are going to have Seasons of PvP gear in ESO what would it matter to you if PvE people had something to do that they enjoy?

Nox_Aeterna

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

Laura wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Personally i would not like that.

Even if ESO is also a themepark MMO , progressive raiding have their place on games like WoW.

I would prefer if ESO took another road, even more because usually this would brings the need for raiding gear , which is usually the best in the game , an issue in ESO where the best gear should come from crafting.

why should the best gear come from crafting? its dumb and annoying. It would be one thing if crafting was actually difficult or materials were hard to come by but as it is you get to max level and BAM your BIS in two minutes.

Having crafting be best in slot while simultaneously making crafting easier than in any other game was literally the dumbest idea I have ever seen.

One way or the other , is one of the premises of the game , that make it different to the other many games of this genre out right now.

To many this matter quite a lot , me included and i expect zen to keep their word.

Best gear comes from crafting.

Mondo

No, I don't believe this type of content has a place in the Elder Scrolls Universe.

Im Ok with Raids and im Ok with new Gear from time to time but i would quit if Eso will become i game im forced to raid etc./Progessive Raiding is not got for THIS Game.

Dont know if you know what i mean my english is not that good