What WoW Devs Learned The Hard Way About NPC Killing

Rhoric

No PvP will not be everywhere. Quote your source so stop spreading lies. If PvP was everywhere then you would lose the majority of the player base and then there would be no game.

Spottswoode

babylon wrote: »

I'm not arbitrarily assuming it will last half a second. I'm just assuming it will happen, because when bankers move they close down our banking screen. Case in point the cat banker at Khenarthi's Roost - when he moves the bank window gets shut down. So, this WILL happen.

Which you are assuming based on current configuration. I think we're done here.

babylon

Spottswoode wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

I'm not arbitrarily assuming it will last half a second. I'm just assuming it will happen, because when bankers move they close down our banking screen. Case in point the cat banker at Khenarthi's Roost - when he moves the bank window gets shut down. So, this WILL happen.

Which you are assuming based on current configuration. I think we're done here.

So you think the banker who gets attacked and starts fighting or sees a nearby NPC get beaten and stops to cower and call for guards will let you continue banking. At least my assumption is based on reality as it stands, whereas what you are assuming is just wishful thinking, or thread diversion.

No, they are going to have to make him entirely non-reactive and untargetable.

And they will have to do this with ALL useful NPCs, all bankers, all shop NPCs, and all quest NPCs.

Spottswoode

babylon wrote: »

So you think the banker who gets attacked and starts fighting or sees a nearby NPC get beaten and stops to cower and call for guards will let you continue banking. At least my assumption is based on reality as it stands, whereas what you are assuming is just wishful thinking, or thread diversion.

No, it isn't. *Sigh* You are assuming, 1) the banker will cower, 2) will begin moving or break the banking screen, and 3) that the staff was not already aware and testing of these possibilities and did not forsee this problem. You are also assuming that 4) the banker will not attack and 5) there will not be guards around to kill the attacker instead. 6) AND, you're scenario is based on other configurations and not the version which has not yet been released. 7) Which you have not seen.
Again, there is no basis to believe that the banker being aggroed has any reason to disrupt the players functions with that npc at the current moment. You haven't seen the code or the function in action. It IS possible that the banker can fill the function of crime and the banking.

twev

Bored players, players with some kind of grudge, or players who just enjoy griefing will find ways to annoy players (who just want to play the game) whenever they think they can impact other players successfully.

So what happens to players who decide to go outlaw, amass a bounty on their head, and have no gold or assets to pay it off?

What happens when griefers start making alts/mules with empty pockets to attack/kill NPCs, and then fall back on the 'Look, no gold.' defense.

What happens to those 'toons who can't or wont pay off the bounty? Is ZENi going to perma-kill the 'toon? Parole? Make them pic up trash on the side of the road to work off the debt?

How many deadbeat 'toons will a griefer be able to crank out before s/he decides to unsub?

Maybe not the most important questions in the discussion, but they are points that need to be addressed.

Edited for capitalization error, and speeling.

R1ckyDaMan

Maybe with DB and TG coming too, the only npc's that can be killed are DB targets? just a thought as it is all speculation at the minute.

Spottswoode

twev wrote: »

What happens when griefers start making alts/mules with empty pockets to attack/kill NPCS, and then fall back on the 'Look, no gold.' defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP93s--bv3A We have that covered.

babylon

Spottswoode wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

So you think the banker who gets attacked and starts fighting or sees a nearby NPC get beaten and stops to cower and call for guards will let you continue banking. At least my assumption is based on reality as it stands, whereas what you are assuming is just wishful thinking, or thread diversion.

*Sigh*
there is no basis to believe that the banker being aggroed has any reason to disrupt the players functions with that npc at the current moment.

I am assuming these things based on what we have been told and what we have seen, and what I have seen.

1) Bankers are reactive (stated by ZOS employeee in this thread).

2) Reactive NPCs cower (seen in video on justive system).

3) Bankers that move close our bank window down (seen in cat banker in Khenarthi's Roost.

Okay so this is deductive reasoning, whereas your assumption is based on...? I can only conclude it is wishful thinking.

And again - ultimate conclusion is, to prevent players being inconvenienced by bankers and so on closing down bank windows mid-session - they will need to make ALL useful NPCs non-reactive and untargetable. All bankers, all shop NPCs, and all quest NPCs.

twev

Spottswoode wrote: »

twev wrote: »

What happens when griefers start making alts/mules with empty pockets to attack/kill NPCS, and then fall back on the 'Look, no gold.' defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP93s--bv3A We have that covered.

So, best case scenario, a player ends up with a bounty they can't pay through foolish adolescent hi-jinx.
You're proposing that the 'toon/character is permakilled?

Spottswoode

babylon wrote: »

1) Bankers are reactive (stated by ZOS employeee in this thread).

2) Reactive NPCs cower (seen in video on justive system).

3) Bankers that move close our bank window down (seen in cat banker in Khenarthi's Roost.

Okay so this is deductive reasoning, whereas your assumption is based on...? I can only conclude it is wishful thinking.

*facepalm* Which is based on the presumption that the problem was not forseen and that the banker problem will persist. (Deduction requires you remove the impossible, btw.) And, again, we're done here.

twev wrote: »

So, best case scenario, a player ends up with a bounty they can't pay through foolish adolescent hi-jinx.
You're proposing that the 'toon/character is permakilled?

Perma-aggroed more like it. There is little reason to fret over players who constantly get in over their heads (whether on purpose or otherwise) in the crime portion. It's also likely the less scrupulous factions would help in that department.

Woogawoman

One of the things I am enjoying about the game is talking to all the "fluff" NPCs for their stories. If they are dead most of the time, I would be disappointed. I guess that means I'll be more likely to help hunt down the blaggards doing the killing.

pecheckler

With all the rookie MMO mistakes i've seen ESO bring thus far, I'm not expecting any less with this new system. Rest assured that the primary use of the justice system will be to enable griefers to carry out their troll player killings. Some group of players will find a way to ruin the experiences of others using the justice system, or at least bait the innocent into unsuspecting death by overwhelming force. There will be exploits of game mechanics which result in the noble player dying.

This was the entirely wrong way to go with PvP. Combat which is far more structured than Cyrodiil is the proper direction.

Audigy

twev wrote: »

Bored players, players with some kind of grudge, or players who just enjoy griefing will find ways to annoy players (who just want to play the game) whenever they think they can impact other players successfully.

So what happens to players who decide to go outlaw, amass a bounty on their head, and have no gold or assets to pay it off?

What happens when griefers start making alts/mules with empty pockets to attack/kill NPCs, and then fall back on the 'Look, no gold.' defense.

What happens to those 'toons who can't or wont pay off the bounty? Is ZENi going to perma-kill the 'toon? Parole? Make them pic up trash on the side of the road to work off the debt?

How many deadbeat 'toons will a griefer be able to crank out before s/he decides to unsub?

Maybe not the most important questions in the discussion, but they are points that need to be addressed.

Edited for capitalization error, and speeling.

I honestly think that too many people worry about 1% of the population in MMOs. Not every pvp players is a griefer, please understand this.

I have seen the exact same concerns at WOW before they killed world pvp and guess what, not even once have I been harassed or griefed by anyone. These type of things happen so seldom that it would be wrong to kill of a new system just because of this.

To me it often looks like people might had a negative outcome once in their life and from that point on they assume every time will be the same. Just get some more self esteem guys, really.

Most humans / players are good, its only a few that are not and you should not let yourself get too focused on those few that are bad, while you forget the majority that isn't.

ESO needs the pvp crowd, it was shipped with a strong pvp content in mind - instead of supporting the pvp crowd to come back, they are treat like real life criminals that are bad to everyone and only play to harass other gamers

Tyr

Innocente wrote: »

An interesting video, but assumptions are the mother of all failures. And here, the assumption is that a single player is involved. How long do you think that guard would have lasted against six to ten VR12 players?

Like I said, they will sweep through these towns like a plague, clear them, and keep them cleared.

It will be great if Vendors, Quest NPCs, and other important ones are unkillable, but still. The developers assume to much about the behavior of internet peoples, I think. History has shown that if there is a way to grief game play, it will be done.

In a single player game, this kind of mechanic is fine. But in an MMO or Multi-Player Theme Park game, it is insane.

Nobody is assuming this. If you go on a killing spree, you are kill on site forever(or until you pay an impossibly huge fine).

This means that if 10 players go around killing NPC's because the second that they leave the group any random players ANYWHERE can kill them.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Tyr wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

An interesting video, but assumptions are the mother of all failures. And here, the assumption is that a single player is involved. How long do you think that guard would have lasted against six to ten VR12 players?

Like I said, they will sweep through these towns like a plague, clear them, and keep them cleared.

It will be great if Vendors, Quest NPCs, and other important ones are unkillable, but still. The developers assume to much about the behavior of internet peoples, I think. History has shown that if there is a way to grief game play, it will be done.

In a single player game, this kind of mechanic is fine. But in an MMO or Multi-Player Theme Park game, it is insane.

Nobody is assuming this. If you go on a killing spree, you are kill on site forever(or until you pay an impossibly huge fine).

This means that if 10 players go around killing NPC's because the second that they leave the group any random players ANYWHERE can kill them.

I'm fairly certain only player guards can kill player criminals. I hope anyway, no reason some otherwise protected opportunistic carebear should be able to initiate combat that he would QQ about were the situation reversed.

EQBallzz

Innocente wrote: »

An interesting video, but assumptions are the mother of all failures. And here, the assumption is that a single player is involved. How long do you think that guard would have lasted against six to ten VR12 players?

Like I said, they will sweep through these towns like a plague, clear them, and keep them cleared.

It will be great if Vendors, Quest NPCs, and other important ones are unkillable, but still. The developers assume to much about the behavior of internet peoples, I think. History has shown that if there is a way to grief game play, it will be done.

In a single player game, this kind of mechanic is fine. But in an MMO or Multi-Player Theme Park game, it is insane.

Funny how you don't detect the face smacking irony in your post. You claim assumptions are the mother of all failures in reference to ZOS and yet your entire post is nothing but a HUGE, baseless assumption. The content isn't nearly out yet. They stated in the panel that quest NPCs won't be killable so what is the problem exactly?

I guess some people just need to invent drama and problems where none exist. The game has plenty of actual problems that are live in game right now.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

babylon

Spottswoode wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

1) Bankers are reactive (stated by ZOS employeee in this thread).

2) Reactive NPCs cower (seen in video on justive system).

3) Bankers that move close our bank window down (seen in cat banker in Khenarthi's Roost.

Okay so this is deductive reasoning, whereas your assumption is based on...? I can only conclude it is wishful thinking.

*facepalm* Which is based on the presumption that the problem was not forseen and that the banker problem will persist. (Deduction requires you remove the impossible, btw.) And, again, we're done here.

There is no "impossible" there. The ZOS employee clearly stated bankers can be attacked and are reactive. Then went on to point to testing it all with 20 people checking out exploits for their own purposes and who won't report a thing on their PTS servers as being the only thing to fall back on when it all goes wrong.

You might be "done" but the rest of us vs this new game mechanic certainly are not.

ZOS will need to make ALL useful NPCs (bankers/shop NPCs/quest NPCs) non-reactive and untargetable.

Ser Lobo

Just phase the NPC's to each players machine, or group leader. Problem solved.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

babylon wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

1) Bankers are reactive (stated by ZOS employeee in this thread).

2) Reactive NPCs cower (seen in video on justive system).

3) Bankers that move close our bank window down (seen in cat banker in Khenarthi's Roost.

Okay so this is deductive reasoning, whereas your assumption is based on...? I can only conclude it is wishful thinking.

*facepalm* Which is based on the presumption that the problem was not forseen and that the banker problem will persist. (Deduction requires you remove the impossible, btw.) And, again, we're done here.

There is no "impossible" there. The ZOS employee clearly stated bankers can be attacked and are reactive. Then went on to point to testing it all with 20 people checking out exploits for their own purposes and who won't report a thing on their PTS servers as being the only thing to fall back on when it all goes wrong.

You might be "done" but the rest of us vs this new game mechanic certainly are not.

ZOS will need to make ALL useful NPCs (bankers/shop NPCs/quest NPCs) non-reactive and untargetable.

Weird I don't remember the ZOS rep saying that bolded.

Spottswoode

babylon wrote: »

There is no "impossible" there.

My point exactly, thank you.

Tyr wrote: »

Nobody is assuming this. If you go on a killing spree, you are kill on site forever(or until you pay an impossibly huge fine).

This means that if 10 players go around killing NPC's because the second that they leave the group any random players ANYWHERE can kill them.

Quite right. There are many of us who will dedicate personal time to hunting down disruptive players with this mechanic as well.

babylon

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

1) Bankers are reactive (stated by ZOS employeee in this thread).

2) Reactive NPCs cower (seen in video on justive system).

3) Bankers that move close our bank window down (seen in cat banker in Khenarthi's Roost.

Okay so this is deductive reasoning, whereas your assumption is based on...? I can only conclude it is wishful thinking.

*facepalm* Which is based on the presumption that the problem was not forseen and that the banker problem will persist. (Deduction requires you remove the impossible, btw.) And, again, we're done here.

There is no "impossible" there. The ZOS employee clearly stated bankers can be attacked and are reactive. Then went on to point to testing it all with 20 people checking out exploits for their own purposes and who won't report a thing on their PTS servers as being the only thing to fall back on when it all goes wrong.

You might be "done" but the rest of us vs this new game mechanic certainly are not.

ZOS will need to make ALL useful NPCs (bankers/shop NPCs/quest NPCs) non-reactive and untargetable.

Weird I don't remember the ZOS rep saying that bolded.

Because I was obviously doing a direct quote there...

Tyr

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Thank you for letting us in @ZOS_JessicaFolsom!

However, I've got a couple of questions, I'd be grateful if you could get them answered.

How are you going to prevent players from flagging other players against their will for pvp/crime? (e.g. by attacking NPCs and then spamming AOE heals in order to tag bystanders, pretending to be a guard and after being healed attacking NPCs)

Well it is simple if you think about it. In the first situation they can't tag you with heals because they can't heal you in the first place if they are marked as an enemy just like Enemy NPC heals currently don't heal you.

In the second situation, the moment they attack an NPC and become KOS, you're heal won't effect them because they become an enemy to you, though it may be different if you're in a group with them.

So, worst case scenario is avoid grouping with unscrupulous people that may pretend to be gaurds, and if you do get into a group and get duped, stop/run, pay the fine and be on your way.

EQBallzz

Audigy wrote: »

Denaia wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

WoW developers learned that despite whatever safeguards are put in place, high level players will travel to low level areas and simply wipe out every guard, NPC, and Quest Giver they can find. And they will keep them dead for hours on end.

Bottom line is that the griefers will simply ruin the PvE game for pretty much all the non-sociopathic player base.

Now, ZOS will eventually hear the laments of the player base, and be forced to get rid of the ability to kill NPCs. But a lot of damage will be done to ESO during the time that this behavior is allowed in the game.

ZOS would be wise to LEARN from the mistakes of others and not repeat them.

Yes Blizzard learned the hard way, they lost 7 million of their subs in the process

I don't want to offend you but your carebear mode just doesn't fit to MMOs. If players can not kill important NPC´s then the whole reason for the justice system is revoked.

We need a living world, we need interaction with players and one way to do this is world pvp. If a guild sieges a city, then everyone on the server has to work together to fight them off. If a sneaky Rogue camps a merchant, then players have to work together to find him. This is MMO stuff, this is what made UO, Vanilla WOW or DAOC so good.

I see the justice system failing before its even in the game, because of demands that have only one goal " the destruction" of ESO.

I feel very sorry for the DEVs, they have so many good thoughts but people at this forum just keep trashing them because they wont accept that this is an MMO and not Tetris.

It becomes a problem when the new level 1 players are being harassed by vr 12 players who go on and kill every single npc in the starting zones. As that is what is going to happen and how will those players be able to get new players if they don't know anyone to ask?

Some npc's should be protected from being killed or it will lead to massive abuse.

I played many MMOs with world pvp and this never happened to such an extend that I could not quest further. Yes some Quest NPC´s will be dead, but the good thing about MMOs is that there is not a linear story and they will respawn quickly.

If one quest hub has no NPCs for a few seconds until they respawn then you either go to a different hub or just wait a bit.

In the mean time there will be many guards, protecting the new spawned NPCs. The NPCs could also flee into the church or some temple which is heavily guarded, there are so many possible ways to do this.

Crossroads was under attack every now and then, but yet I never had issues with my chars at WOW. The high levels couldn't attack me and those few quests in the hub I could do later without any issues. Once the guards are up & higher level players there to defend, the attackers are pretty much always outnumbered and leave.

The scenario that some people make out of this where a single Rogue camps the banker is silly and not realistic.


The whole problem is, that by making unimportant NPCs only attackable - that players will lose their interest in the justice system very fast. Yes it might be fun the first time or the second, but sooner or later people will realize that its pointless to kill no name NPCs.

The whole purpose of attacking an NPC is the kill, not the bounty. Why should someone waste his or her reputation in a town, if only he has to feel the consequences but not the other players?

Its a horrible system that way, there must be a punishment for all sides and not just one. A one sided system will not work, as we can see at WOW now. World pvp is dead, 7 million subs lost - it says enough about the changes to the system there.

To disable pvp at the starter islands ok, but everywhere else it should be enabled and everything should be killable - else I don't see why anyone would invest time into becoming a thief or a criminal.

Interesting read but there are other ways to incentivize civilian kills while protecting important NPCs. There could be factions that are gained or lost by killing certain ppl. For instance, different towns or zone factions that would go up or down or possibly favor with the dark brotherhood for special rewards or titles. There could be special items only found on civilians and sold to fences for gold or traded for tokens that give special items, armor, mounts, weapons or costumes.

By the same token there could be similar (but different) rewards gained from collecting bounties from those players that decide to kill civilians or special access to quests in that area or special access to areas not available otherwise.That's just two quick ideas I could come up with off the top of my head..I'm sure there are plenty more.

Audigy

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Denaia wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

WoW developers learned that despite whatever safeguards are put in place, high level players will travel to low level areas and simply wipe out every guard, NPC, and Quest Giver they can find. And they will keep them dead for hours on end.

Bottom line is that the griefers will simply ruin the PvE game for pretty much all the non-sociopathic player base.

Now, ZOS will eventually hear the laments of the player base, and be forced to get rid of the ability to kill NPCs. But a lot of damage will be done to ESO during the time that this behavior is allowed in the game.

ZOS would be wise to LEARN from the mistakes of others and not repeat them.

Yes Blizzard learned the hard way, they lost 7 million of their subs in the process

I don't want to offend you but your carebear mode just doesn't fit to MMOs. If players can not kill important NPC´s then the whole reason for the justice system is revoked.

We need a living world, we need interaction with players and one way to do this is world pvp. If a guild sieges a city, then everyone on the server has to work together to fight them off. If a sneaky Rogue camps a merchant, then players have to work together to find him. This is MMO stuff, this is what made UO, Vanilla WOW or DAOC so good.

I see the justice system failing before its even in the game, because of demands that have only one goal " the destruction" of ESO.

I feel very sorry for the DEVs, they have so many good thoughts but people at this forum just keep trashing them because they wont accept that this is an MMO and not Tetris.

It becomes a problem when the new level 1 players are being harassed by vr 12 players who go on and kill every single npc in the starting zones. As that is what is going to happen and how will those players be able to get new players if they don't know anyone to ask?

Some npc's should be protected from being killed or it will lead to massive abuse.

I played many MMOs with world pvp and this never happened to such an extend that I could not quest further. Yes some Quest NPC´s will be dead, but the good thing about MMOs is that there is not a linear story and they will respawn quickly.

If one quest hub has no NPCs for a few seconds until they respawn then you either go to a different hub or just wait a bit.

In the mean time there will be many guards, protecting the new spawned NPCs. The NPCs could also flee into the church or some temple which is heavily guarded, there are so many possible ways to do this.

Crossroads was under attack every now and then, but yet I never had issues with my chars at WOW. The high levels couldn't attack me and those few quests in the hub I could do later without any issues. Once the guards are up & higher level players there to defend, the attackers are pretty much always outnumbered and leave.

The scenario that some people make out of this where a single Rogue camps the banker is silly and not realistic.


The whole problem is, that by making unimportant NPCs only attackable - that players will lose their interest in the justice system very fast. Yes it might be fun the first time or the second, but sooner or later people will realize that its pointless to kill no name NPCs.

The whole purpose of attacking an NPC is the kill, not the bounty. Why should someone waste his or her reputation in a town, if only he has to feel the consequences but not the other players?

Its a horrible system that way, there must be a punishment for all sides and not just one. A one sided system will not work, as we can see at WOW now. World pvp is dead, 7 million subs lost - it says enough about the changes to the system there.

To disable pvp at the starter islands ok, but everywhere else it should be enabled and everything should be killable - else I don't see why anyone would invest time into becoming a thief or a criminal.

The skills trees from TG and DBH will be incentive for people to be criminals, the killing sprees are just an added thing that people will be capable of.

I don't think so to be honest and even if so, what about the time after you have the perks, why continue with being a criminal?

Does anyone still hunt vampires after he is done with the fighters guild?

We will see how it turns out, but I see some serious issues in regards of the incentive to become a criminal. You also need to consider that you can steal your way up or trade like it happens with vampires already.

I am pretty sure that nobody ever has to attack an NPC and could still max out the skill lines.

Good questions maybe ZoS will think of more reasons to maintain a criminal lifestyle. Dailies could be one, go kill this guy or steal this artifact. here's 600g for your efforts, also a token, when you get enough you can buy a piece of nightengale armor.

I think they said in the presentation, that there wont be any rewards for stealing or killing.

If there would lets say "NPC x has 1000 gold, grab it" then this would probably not go through. Too many PVE players would demand that this isn't right, that they should not be forced to pvp...

We saw this with the dye system already, many complains that a few colors were bound on pvp achievements. I wonder what they would do if killing NPCs would actually reward loot that matters

Needles to say I wouldn't mind serious loot on those NPCs or quests - but with our community I am afraid it would be nerfed into Oblivion and every incentive to be destroyed.

Time will tell I guess, but a good remark from you!

Stealing would be pointless if you don't rake in some cash. They mentioned something about items you steal having some measure of value. I don't know how they are going to handle it though.

The post before this you made was very well said, btw. I agree 100%. There's always players that want the game to only cater to them. An mmo is a shared game, it should be fun for as many people as possible.

I am stoked about the Justice system personally.

Yes I saw that the items had a small value indeed if stolen from a basket and those could only be sold to someone out of town. The video showed 1 gold, so if you rob 100 people / steal from 100 baskets you made 100 gold. That said, its not a lot based on the bounty that raises equally to your gold


The other thing you said, yes its sad that MMOs have become so hostile. There was a time when people didn't care about the business of others, but today everyone seems to only want "his content" totally forgetting about other gamers. Also the remark to go back to Skyrim is typical, I mean why should someone go play an single player RPG if he or she wants to play an MMO with others?


I have the feeling those against the justice system assume that one single player could constantly kill the banker and lock its customers out, but this has never been the case in any MMO that I played.

To kill such an important char like the Banker would definitely be a team effort and not something for a lonely Criminal. Also, important NPCs are not only stronger than others, but they are also guarded.

It therefore would require a raid to actually get something done in a town and while this might happen once in a while, its not something that happens each time that said player goes to the bank.

Besides that, ESO is a pretty much open world game without a script to follow. There are many towns with banks and merchants, many quest hubs and especially many players that will become additional guards.

The moment every banker or in general NPC is dead, no other player around and anarchy wide spread wont even happen in an MMO. It didn't at no time at WOW, Ultima or DAOC.

Your example of the Griffons showed this well and I wish the "haters" here would be a bit more reasonable and try to understand that this isn't only their game, but also the game of PVP addicts and MMO fans.

ZO has enough ways to step in if something really goes out of hand, but so far every MMO had its own "guards" and those were players who took care of those few that acted rude.

NadiusMaximus

Why not make guard op as all hell. Level 100, 10000000hp.

babylon

Audigy wrote: »

try to understand that this isn't only their game, but also the game of PVP addicts

The moment this game caters to "pvp addicts" in the open world, is the day the game loses the pve players.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

babylon wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

try to understand that this isn't only their game, but also the game of PVP addicts

The moment this game caters to "pvp addicts" in the open world, is the day the game loses the pve players.

So... what would the downside of that be?

babylon

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

try to understand that this isn't only their game, but also the game of PVP addicts

The moment this game caters to "pvp addicts" in the open world, is the day the game loses the pve players.

So... what would the downside of that be?

Game dies and ZOS pulls the plug, because pvp players just aren't a big enough crowd to sustain a AAA MMO and its overheads. Unless they turned the game into a spreadsheet like EVE.

Tyr

The_Sadist wrote: »

As stated, important NPCs will be protected and hopefully, by extension, cannot be attacked at all (the whole bank issue).

The system could work if done correctly, make certain NPCs fight back, make NPCs drop items of value and make the bounty system something akin to getting half of the total bounty (if not all of it). That being said I can see this being abused. Half a friend get a crazy amount of bounty, kill him, get bounty and repeat. What are the negatives about being a criminal? If you die from a guard or whatever is your bounty removed or do you have it until you can pay it off? The system is still very ambiguous, so who knows.

Like I mentioned before, I do hope they change provisioning.. Given 50% of the required materials you would have to steal in order to progress. Perhaps more nodes (berries, wheat etc) and animals dropping meats could be a solution, but we'll see.

My one issue is accidentally casting a spell or swinging your weapon, killing an extremely weak NPC and having to pay a fine.. But I suppose the obvious answer is take caution in towns.

they said you would be KOS until you pay the fine, and also you will lose anything you've stolen in your inventory.

What's missing is what happens after you die(I.E prison).
What they could do is a really steep gold penalty, but even then players could get around it.

The best idea is probably to give you the choice when you die to pay the gold penalty or let you re-spawn in jail and strip you of what you've got equipped.

That would be great.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

The Justice system will be awesome.

Seriously folks, at least wait until there is more information than a quick pre-alpha vid at a convention, likely several months to release, before going off the rails with what could happen.

Additionally when it does go to the PTS, get your a** in there and exploit the hell out of it, make sure all the bases are covered when the time comes.