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Any Way for Existing Customers to get the Whiterun Wolfhound?
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Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Games are just like banks. They totally matter the same amount. That's a good analogy, and you get one (1) Internet.
Someone missed the point entirely.3 -
Miflett✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Holycannoli wrote: »
Games are just like banks. They totally matter the same amount. That's a good analogy, and you get one (1) Internet.
Money in, money out.
0 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Someday soon, they'll start teaching English in schools again.
"The amount to which a person has a right," is the definition...
Nobody is confusing vanity pets with free speech or habeus corpus. This was a group of customers who wanted access to a product, even if they had to pay for it. Some considered it important. You don't. Tastes differ.
Mixed with that, you have people who feel that ZOS committed to avoiding paywalls for any content. A plain reading of the broad language Matt Firor has used when justifying the subscription fee supports this interpretation. Personally, I feel that is unrealistic and even undesirable. In today's MMO market, cash shops are probably necessary for a game to thrive, and they don't bother me at all. But I can respect other opinions.
You might try it. It only hurts for a second.Edited by Snit on July 18, 2014 7:09PMSnit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade4 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Holycannoli wrote: »
Games are just like banks. They totally matter the same amount. That's a good analogy, and you get one (1) Internet.
Money in, money out.
You make money on ESO?
I'm pretty sure that's a breach of the ToS.----
Murray?0 -
Laura✭✭✭✭✭
✭Holycannoli wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Games are just like banks. They totally matter the same amount. That's a good analogy, and you get one (1) Internet.
Someone missed the point entirely.
@holycannoli that is actually a really good video for it you should make a new thread with it. @nerevarine1138 obviously likes to be screwed seven ways to sunday.
My husband is a car salesman, he is the type of person he LOVES to see strolling up to the dealership and he can spot them a mile away.
Back in my day we called them suckers.
seriously though - entitlement nature and ets is not what you have here guys... this would not have been tolerated in the least when MMOs were younger. These things should be put in game and earned but at the very least obtainable by all in some way.
Some exclusives and purchasable items - fine. but all but ONE in this game are outside the bounds of earning and play. That is ATROCIOUS for a pay to play game and is the VERY REASON I stood by the pay to play model. I honestly am starting to see no reason for this game to be subscription based at this point.Edited by Laura on July 18, 2014 7:15PM4 -
Miflett✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Holycannoli wrote: »
Games are just like banks. They totally matter the same amount. That's a good analogy, and you get one (1) Internet.
Money in, money out.
You make money on ESO?
I'm pretty sure that's a breach of the ToS.
Good one. Companies turn a profit. Money in, money out. Not unlike a bank.
Edited by Miflett on July 18, 2014 7:10PM0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Games are just like banks. They totally matter the same amount. That's a good analogy, and you get one (1) Internet.
Someone missed the point entirely.
that is actually a really good video for it you should make a new thread with it. @nerevarine1138 obviously likes to be screwed seven ways to sunday.
My husband is a car salesman, he is the type of person he LOVES to see strolling up to the dealership and he can spot them a mile away.
Back in my day we called them suckers.
seriously though - entitlement nature and ets is not what you have here guys... this would not have been tolerated in the least when MMOs were younger. These things should be put in game and earned but at the very least obtainable by all in some way.
Some exclusives and purchasable items - fine. but all but ONE in this game are outside the bounds of earning and play. That is ATROCIOUS for a pay to play game and is the VERY REASON I stood by the pay to play model. I honestly am starting to see no reason for this game to be subscription based at this point.
Tell me if this sounds like something your husband would find to be normal behavior:
He sells a car to Person A the day the new model comes out. It has all the bells and whistles. It runs great. Person A drives away happy.
3 months later, Person A comes back to the dealership and sees your husband selling Person B the very same car. But this time, your husband gives them a complimentary bobblehead as part of some dealership promotion.
Now, would your husband find it normal for Person A to stride in to the dealership and demand a free bobblehead so that he's getting the same "driving experience" as Person B? Or would he think they were a crazy person?----
Murray?1 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
No, what you're referring to is a sense of false entitlement. You believe our entitlement ends where cosmetic items begin, but regardless of whether you deem it worth complaining about or not, cosmetic content is still, in fact, content. It is content that we were promised before launch.[Moderator Note: Edited/Removed moderated quote]
And no, we don't have the right to be rewarded for playing, but who wouldn't welcome this? Other games do it, and it's a wonderful way to say "thanks" to existing customers, but that isn't the point.
The main point here is that Zenimax is showing blatant favoritism. They've shown us that they care more about people buying the game itself than they do about people continuing to renew their subscriptions, and if this game is to last, we have to show them that this kind of attitude is not acceptable.Edited by ZOS_ShannonM on July 20, 2014 12:47AM-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —5 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Tell me if this sounds like something your husband would find to be normal behavior:
He sells a car to Person A the day the new model comes out. It has all the bells and whistles. It runs great. Person A drives away happy.
3 months later, Person A comes back to the dealership and sees your husband selling Person B the very same car. But this time, your husband gives them a complimentary bobblehead as part of some dealership promotion.
Now, would your husband find it normal for Person A to stride in to the dealership and demand a free bobblehead so that he's getting the same "driving experience" as Person B? Or would he think they were a crazy person?
You give the bobblehead as a show of good faith. It costs you practically nothing and keeps that customer happy and potentially a repeat customer.
Or perhaps you don't understand customer service.
In ESO's case giving the white wolf to existing imperial edition owners costs nothing at all whatsoever. There is ZERO cost involved and it only brings benefits as the existing customers are pleased.
Edited by Holycannoli on July 18, 2014 7:19PM6 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
No, what you're referring to is a sense of false entitlement. You believe our entitlement ends where cosmetic items begin, but regardless of whether you deem it worth complaining about or not, cosmetic content is still, in fact, content. It is content that we were promised before launch.nerevarine1138 wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
I take pleasure in being able to say that you're wrong about this.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »TeraAngelos wrote: »The poll in question is regarding the vanity pet alone - its OP specifically states they are asking about the wolfhound itself, not what it represents, to what it may lead, et cetera. As dozens of people have said in this thread and others, it's not the dog itself that's the issue (how sad would it be, yes, if there was this much uproar about a virtual dog). The issue is the seemingly growing disregard by Zenimax for its current player base.
We have gotten constant updates and fixes in response to player concerns. They're even changing the entire VR system due to the whining from players. And you still think they have a disregard for the playerbase?
This is a perfect example of the entitlement the OP is talking about. You don't deserve anything for playing this game. You're playing the game because you have fun playing it. If that isn't the case, please quit. But ZO isn't required to give you validation or rewards because you like their product.
Whats your official title at Z-max office again? I must remember to send some flowers and a package of biscuits to you and the rest of the staff. You and your squad is doing a real good job defending every wrong turn this game has taken so far.
Aw, cute. A "He's a ZO shill!" argument. It would also be hilarious if it wasn't such a tired-out trope. But it's still adorable.
But it's okay for you and others to make the "entitlement" argument that is beyond tired and more often than not comes across as ageism? FFS.
Believing that you deserve a reward for nothing is the definition of entitlement. Please feel free to correct me if the Oxford dictionary folks got together and changed that.
Taken from the Oxford Dictionary website itself:
So there you have it. There's also the fact that we were promised access to all areas of the game when they announced the subscription model, so yeah, we're entitled as paying customers to ask them to keep their word.
Someday soon, they'll start teaching English in schools again.
"The amount to which a person has a right," is the definition I'm referring to. You do not have a right to a purely cosmetic item in a game. You do not have the right to be rewarded for doing nothing but playing a game you already enjoy.
You have access to all areas of the game. Not one iota of content is blocked to you. Period.
And no, we don't have the right to be rewarded for playing, but who wouldn't welcome this? Other games do it, and it's a wonderful way to say "thanks" to existing customers, but that isn't the point.
The main point here is that Zenimax is showing blatant favoritism. They've shown us that they care more about people buying the game itself than they do about people continuing to renew their subscriptions, and if this game is to last, we have to show them that this kind of attitude is not acceptable.
Actually, they never promised unfettered access to all cosmetic content. They were quite up-front about the existence of the cash store for purely cosmetic items, and the pre-order/IE bonuses have all been locked to specific players (those willing to pay for them and/or those who ordered early).
Cosmetic items are cosmetic. They are not an "area of the game," nor are they content. You are not entitled to them. Period.----
Murray?0 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »Ruscthelion wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey, everyone. We’ve received many questions about how non-Steam customers can get the in-game ESO Whiterun Wolfhound pet that is currently an exclusive part of the Steam offer. While the grey wolfhound will remain an exclusive through Steam, we will be offering a brown version of the Wolfhound pet (tentatively called the Riften Woflhound) at some point in the future. Stay tuned for more details on how you'll be able to get your hands on one.
I feel regret that your company felt bullied enough by your customers to come up with this type of response. If I knew any of you in person, I would take you all out for drinks (it's payday, what the Hell) and thank you for providing a game that I have so thoroughly enjoyed without any of this vanity pet nonsense.
"The Customer is always right" is wrong
Totally agree. If I worked in this industry I would probably quit after listening to the whine-fest on these forums.
I am a forum moderator for a different game company.
I consider ESO forum input to actually be relatively well structured and reasonable in comparison to the garbage I have to clean up.
I don't know, there was nothing "reasonable" about this vanity pet outrage. It was the epitome of immaturity and not understanding how the true world works. All I see are a bunch of millennials who always got there trophies even when they came in last place.
I couldn't agree more. It's quite shameful some of the displays that have been put on in this thread. I just hope that many of them are not adults. I can understand children being upset of petty things, but this outrage is downright embarrassing.
I am 67 and was quite active in getting them to give us access to the dog.
If you can't understand why, and just have some self serving agenda as an "adult", then my scorn will go right past you.
No 67 year old I have ever met would whine about such a thing so I seriously doubt it. They have a much better perspective of what is important in this world than a vanity pet.1 -
randolphbenoit wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hey, everyone. We’ve received many questions about how non-Steam customers can get the in-game ESO Whiterun Wolfhound pet that is currently an exclusive part of the Steam offer. While the grey wolfhound will remain an exclusive through Steam, we will be offering a brown version of the Wolfhound pet (tentatively called the Riften Woflhound) at some point in the future. Stay tuned for more details on how you'll be able to get your hands on one.
Again we get shafted! A brown one? I want a greywolf color one! (or a wolf). I currently seriously leaving ESO for WOW... those with active subscriptions since launch and have imperial/collector edition should get what STEAM is getting. I not buying another package and I dislike STEAM altogether. ZOS please understand our concerns.
Shakes head in absolute disbelief.0 -
mumok✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »
I love it!
Nobody wants to be the kid without the ice cream. And it's so easily avoided when you are dealing in pixels.0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Tell me if this sounds like something your husband would find to be normal behavior:
He sells a car to Person A the day the new model comes out. It has all the bells and whistles. It runs great. Person A drives away happy.
3 months later, Person A comes back to the dealership and sees your husband selling Person B the very same car. But this time, your husband gives them a complimentary bobblehead as part of some dealership promotion.
Now, would your husband find it normal for Person A to stride in to the dealership and demand a free bobblehead so that he's getting the same "driving experience" as Person B? Or would he think they were a crazy person?
You give the bobblehead as a show of good faith. It costs you practically nothing and keeps that customer happy and potentially a repeat customer.
Or perhaps you don't understand customer service.
In ESO's case giving the white wolf to existing imperial edition owners costs nothing at all whatsoever. There is ZERO cost involved and it only brings benefits as the existing customers are pleased.
Or you don't cave in to whining children simply because they're throwing a tantrum.
For some reason, we've gotten it in our heads that "customer service" consists of throwing goodie-bags at the customer until they shut up. Sometimes, good customer service is ignoring the few customers who think that complaining is an American pastime. You shouldn't get the white wolf on purely moral grounds at this point, because that rewards bad behavior. It sets a precedent for more bad behavior in the future when players want something they don't have a right to.----
Murray?0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Or you don't cave in to whining children simply because they're throwing a tantrum.
For some reason, we've gotten it in our heads that "customer service" consists of throwing goodie-bags at the customer until they shut up. Sometimes, good customer service is ignoring the few customers who think that complaining is an American pastime. You shouldn't get the white wolf on purely moral grounds at this point, because that rewards bad behavior. It sets a precedent for more bad behavior in the future when players want something they don't have a right to.
You are definitely not customer service material.5 -
ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.randolphbenoit wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hey, everyone. We’ve received many questions about how non-Steam customers can get the in-game ESO Whiterun Wolfhound pet that is currently an exclusive part of the Steam offer. While the grey wolfhound will remain an exclusive through Steam, we will be offering a brown version of the Wolfhound pet (tentatively called the Riften Woflhound) at some point in the future. Stay tuned for more details on how you'll be able to get your hands on one.
Again we get shafted! A brown one? I want a greywolf color one! (or a wolf). I currently seriously leaving ESO for WOW... those with active subscriptions since launch and have imperial/collector edition should get what STEAM is getting. I not buying another package and I dislike STEAM altogether. ZOS please understand our concerns.
I, for one, am happy we got the dog. I consider this a relative victory.
It is and I'm happy for everyone that just wanted a dog, the rest of us either will leave or are going to stay and try and get ZOS to see that these sort of tactics can't be used on loyal players. Don't forget too we still need to find out HOW we get the dog and possibly how much it will cost us.
Don't group all "loyal players" in your demographic. There are plenty of us loyal players that aren't high maintenance like the puppy whiners are. In fact, I would say we are more loyal since we don't threaten to leave every single time there is something we don't like about the game. Bunch of babies.2 -
Miflett✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Holycannoli wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Tell me if this sounds like something your husband would find to be normal behavior:
He sells a car to Person A the day the new model comes out. It has all the bells and whistles. It runs great. Person A drives away happy.
3 months later, Person A comes back to the dealership and sees your husband selling Person B the very same car. But this time, your husband gives them a complimentary bobblehead as part of some dealership promotion.
Now, would your husband find it normal for Person A to stride in to the dealership and demand a free bobblehead so that he's getting the same "driving experience" as Person B? Or would he think they were a crazy person?
You give the bobblehead as a show of good faith. It costs you practically nothing and keeps that customer happy and potentially a repeat customer.
Or perhaps you don't understand customer service.
In ESO's case giving the white wolf to existing imperial edition owners costs nothing at all whatsoever. There is ZERO cost involved and it only brings benefits as the existing customers are pleased.
Or you don't cave in to whining children simply because they're throwing a tantrum.
For some reason, we've gotten it in our heads that "customer service" consists of throwing goodie-bags at the customer until they shut up. Sometimes, good customer service is ignoring the few customers who think that complaining is an American pastime. You shouldn't get the white wolf on purely moral grounds at this point, because that rewards bad behavior. It sets a precedent for more bad behavior in the future when players want something they don't have a right to.
The only precedent being set here is that predatory content practices allow them to turn a greater profit.
2 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Check again. Zenimax stated, in defense of their subscription model, that they chose this because it would allow players to have access to all content in the game. Sure, I'm fine with purely cosmetic content being put up on the cash shop or something, but what I'm not okay with is Zenimax disregarding existing customers to make new customers happy. We've stayed by their side through all the bugs and imbalances, and they go and give the new Steam players a shiny new pet, and only give us something when we whine and complain for 20 pages? That's not acceptable.nerevarine1138 wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
No, what you're referring to is a sense of false entitlement. You believe our entitlement ends where cosmetic items begin, but regardless of whether you deem it worth complaining about or not, cosmetic content is still, in fact, content. It is content that we were promised before launch.nerevarine1138 wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
I take pleasure in being able to say that you're wrong about this.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »TeraAngelos wrote: »The poll in question is regarding the vanity pet alone - its OP specifically states they are asking about the wolfhound itself, not what it represents, to what it may lead, et cetera. As dozens of people have said in this thread and others, it's not the dog itself that's the issue (how sad would it be, yes, if there was this much uproar about a virtual dog). The issue is the seemingly growing disregard by Zenimax for its current player base.
We have gotten constant updates and fixes in response to player concerns. They're even changing the entire VR system due to the whining from players. And you still think they have a disregard for the playerbase?
This is a perfect example of the entitlement the OP is talking about. You don't deserve anything for playing this game. You're playing the game because you have fun playing it. If that isn't the case, please quit. But ZO isn't required to give you validation or rewards because you like their product.
Whats your official title at Z-max office again? I must remember to send some flowers and a package of biscuits to you and the rest of the staff. You and your squad is doing a real good job defending every wrong turn this game has taken so far.
Aw, cute. A "He's a ZO shill!" argument. It would also be hilarious if it wasn't such a tired-out trope. But it's still adorable.
But it's okay for you and others to make the "entitlement" argument that is beyond tired and more often than not comes across as ageism? FFS.
Believing that you deserve a reward for nothing is the definition of entitlement. Please feel free to correct me if the Oxford dictionary folks got together and changed that.
Taken from the Oxford Dictionary website itself:
So there you have it. There's also the fact that we were promised access to all areas of the game when they announced the subscription model, so yeah, we're entitled as paying customers to ask them to keep their word.
Someday soon, they'll start teaching English in schools again.
"The amount to which a person has a right," is the definition I'm referring to. You do not have a right to a purely cosmetic item in a game. You do not have the right to be rewarded for doing nothing but playing a game you already enjoy.
You have access to all areas of the game. Not one iota of content is blocked to you. Period.
And no, we don't have the right to be rewarded for playing, but who wouldn't welcome this? Other games do it, and it's a wonderful way to say "thanks" to existing customers, but that isn't the point.
The main point here is that Zenimax is showing blatant favoritism. They've shown us that they care more about people buying the game itself than they do about people continuing to renew their subscriptions, and if this game is to last, we have to show them that this kind of attitude is not acceptable.
Actually, they never promised unfettered access to all cosmetic content. They were quite up-front about the existence of the cash store for purely cosmetic items, and the pre-order/IE bonuses have all been locked to specific players (those willing to pay for them and/or those who ordered early).
Cosmetic items are cosmetic. They are not an "area of the game," nor are they content. You are not entitled to them. Period.
Think of it this way. Three months ago, you bought a pretty expensive bag from [insert brand name here]. Now, three months later, they're offering the same bag for a discount, but it comes with a cool new built-in keychain. You say, "wow, I'd really like that keychain. maybe I'll just buy the bag again and put all of my old stuff in it." Then, you find out that you're unable to put anything from your old bag into your new one. Pretty ridiculous, right?
So you can have the keychain, but only if you're willing to buy the bag again and give up everything that was inside your old one.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —7 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Check again. Zenimax stated, in defense of their subscription model, that they chose this because it would allow players to have access to all content in the game. Sure, I'm fine with purely cosmetic content being put up on the cash shop or something, but what I'm not okay with is Zenimax disregarding existing customers to make new customers happy. We've stayed by their side through all the bugs and imbalances, and they go and give the new Steam players a shiny new pet, and only give us something when we whine and complain for 20 pages? That's not acceptable.nerevarine1138 wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
No, what you're referring to is a sense of false entitlement. You believe our entitlement ends where cosmetic items begin, but regardless of whether you deem it worth complaining about or not, cosmetic content is still, in fact, content. It is content that we were promised before launch.nerevarine1138 wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
I take pleasure in being able to say that you're wrong about this.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »TeraAngelos wrote: »The poll in question is regarding the vanity pet alone - its OP specifically states they are asking about the wolfhound itself, not what it represents, to what it may lead, et cetera. As dozens of people have said in this thread and others, it's not the dog itself that's the issue (how sad would it be, yes, if there was this much uproar about a virtual dog). The issue is the seemingly growing disregard by Zenimax for its current player base.
We have gotten constant updates and fixes in response to player concerns. They're even changing the entire VR system due to the whining from players. And you still think they have a disregard for the playerbase?
This is a perfect example of the entitlement the OP is talking about. You don't deserve anything for playing this game. You're playing the game because you have fun playing it. If that isn't the case, please quit. But ZO isn't required to give you validation or rewards because you like their product.
Whats your official title at Z-max office again? I must remember to send some flowers and a package of biscuits to you and the rest of the staff. You and your squad is doing a real good job defending every wrong turn this game has taken so far.
Aw, cute. A "He's a ZO shill!" argument. It would also be hilarious if it wasn't such a tired-out trope. But it's still adorable.
But it's okay for you and others to make the "entitlement" argument that is beyond tired and more often than not comes across as ageism? FFS.
Believing that you deserve a reward for nothing is the definition of entitlement. Please feel free to correct me if the Oxford dictionary folks got together and changed that.
Taken from the Oxford Dictionary website itself:
So there you have it. There's also the fact that we were promised access to all areas of the game when they announced the subscription model, so yeah, we're entitled as paying customers to ask them to keep their word.
Someday soon, they'll start teaching English in schools again.
"The amount to which a person has a right," is the definition I'm referring to. You do not have a right to a purely cosmetic item in a game. You do not have the right to be rewarded for doing nothing but playing a game you already enjoy.
You have access to all areas of the game. Not one iota of content is blocked to you. Period.
And no, we don't have the right to be rewarded for playing, but who wouldn't welcome this? Other games do it, and it's a wonderful way to say "thanks" to existing customers, but that isn't the point.
The main point here is that Zenimax is showing blatant favoritism. They've shown us that they care more about people buying the game itself than they do about people continuing to renew their subscriptions, and if this game is to last, we have to show them that this kind of attitude is not acceptable.
Actually, they never promised unfettered access to all cosmetic content. They were quite up-front about the existence of the cash store for purely cosmetic items, and the pre-order/IE bonuses have all been locked to specific players (those willing to pay for them and/or those who ordered early).
Cosmetic items are cosmetic. They are not an "area of the game," nor are they content. You are not entitled to them. Period.
Think of it this way. Three months ago, you bought a pretty expensive bag from [insert brand name here]. Now, three months later, they're offering the same bag for a discount, but it comes with a cool new built-in keychain. You say, "wow, I'd really like that keychain. maybe I'll just buy the bag again and put all of my old stuff in it." Then, you find out that you're unable to put anything from your old bag into your new one. Pretty ridiculous, right?
So you can have the keychain, but only if you're willing to buy the bag again and give up everything that was inside your old one.
1. You have no idea if they were planning on giving the brown wolfhound before this complaint thread, because the complaints started the instant ZO announced the Steam edition. That said, they shouldn't offer it either way, because it's encouraging this kind of behavior.
2. It's cosmetic. Not content. Pre-order cosmetic items are already locked to new players, and ZO was always clear on cosmetic items not being available to everyone in-game.
It's a pet. Get over it. Just move on and find something important to complain about. I'm in awe of how loud people are willing to squeal if they think they might get something, but I assure you, the rewards here are not as big as you think they will be.----
Murray?1 -
nerevarine1138 wrote: »Holycannoli wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Tell me if this sounds like something your husband would find to be normal behavior:
He sells a car to Person A the day the new model comes out. It has all the bells and whistles. It runs great. Person A drives away happy.
3 months later, Person A comes back to the dealership and sees your husband selling Person B the very same car. But this time, your husband gives them a complimentary bobblehead as part of some dealership promotion.
Now, would your husband find it normal for Person A to stride in to the dealership and demand a free bobblehead so that he's getting the same "driving experience" as Person B? Or would he think they were a crazy person?
You give the bobblehead as a show of good faith. It costs you practically nothing and keeps that customer happy and potentially a repeat customer.
Or perhaps you don't understand customer service.
In ESO's case giving the white wolf to existing imperial edition owners costs nothing at all whatsoever. There is ZERO cost involved and it only brings benefits as the existing customers are pleased.
Or you don't cave in to whining children simply because they're throwing a tantrum.
For some reason, we've gotten it in our heads that "customer service" consists of throwing goodie-bags at the customer until they shut up. Sometimes, good customer service is ignoring the few customers who think that complaining is an American pastime. You shouldn't get the white wolf on purely moral grounds at this point, because that rewards bad behavior. It sets a precedent for more bad behavior in the future when players want something they don't have a right to.
At least someone on here gets it. Bravo sir.3 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
1. It's a logical enough conclusion, is it not? Gina's response indicates that they only decided to add the new one because they heard the outcry. I can't prove that I'm right, but in the same way, you can't prove that I'm wrong.nerevarine1138 wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Check again. Zenimax stated, in defense of their subscription model, that they chose this because it would allow players to have access to all content in the game. Sure, I'm fine with purely cosmetic content being put up on the cash shop or something, but what I'm not okay with is Zenimax disregarding existing customers to make new customers happy. We've stayed by their side through all the bugs and imbalances, and they go and give the new Steam players a shiny new pet, and only give us something when we whine and complain for 20 pages? That's not acceptable.nerevarine1138 wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
No, what you're referring to is a sense of false entitlement. You believe our entitlement ends where cosmetic items begin, but regardless of whether you deem it worth complaining about or not, cosmetic content is still, in fact, content. It is content that we were promised before launch.nerevarine1138 wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
I take pleasure in being able to say that you're wrong about this.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »TeraAngelos wrote: »The poll in question is regarding the vanity pet alone - its OP specifically states they are asking about the wolfhound itself, not what it represents, to what it may lead, et cetera. As dozens of people have said in this thread and others, it's not the dog itself that's the issue (how sad would it be, yes, if there was this much uproar about a virtual dog). The issue is the seemingly growing disregard by Zenimax for its current player base.
We have gotten constant updates and fixes in response to player concerns. They're even changing the entire VR system due to the whining from players. And you still think they have a disregard for the playerbase?
This is a perfect example of the entitlement the OP is talking about. You don't deserve anything for playing this game. You're playing the game because you have fun playing it. If that isn't the case, please quit. But ZO isn't required to give you validation or rewards because you like their product.
Whats your official title at Z-max office again? I must remember to send some flowers and a package of biscuits to you and the rest of the staff. You and your squad is doing a real good job defending every wrong turn this game has taken so far.
Aw, cute. A "He's a ZO shill!" argument. It would also be hilarious if it wasn't such a tired-out trope. But it's still adorable.
But it's okay for you and others to make the "entitlement" argument that is beyond tired and more often than not comes across as ageism? FFS.
Believing that you deserve a reward for nothing is the definition of entitlement. Please feel free to correct me if the Oxford dictionary folks got together and changed that.
Taken from the Oxford Dictionary website itself:
So there you have it. There's also the fact that we were promised access to all areas of the game when they announced the subscription model, so yeah, we're entitled as paying customers to ask them to keep their word.
Someday soon, they'll start teaching English in schools again.
"The amount to which a person has a right," is the definition I'm referring to. You do not have a right to a purely cosmetic item in a game. You do not have the right to be rewarded for doing nothing but playing a game you already enjoy.
You have access to all areas of the game. Not one iota of content is blocked to you. Period.
And no, we don't have the right to be rewarded for playing, but who wouldn't welcome this? Other games do it, and it's a wonderful way to say "thanks" to existing customers, but that isn't the point.
The main point here is that Zenimax is showing blatant favoritism. They've shown us that they care more about people buying the game itself than they do about people continuing to renew their subscriptions, and if this game is to last, we have to show them that this kind of attitude is not acceptable.
Actually, they never promised unfettered access to all cosmetic content. They were quite up-front about the existence of the cash store for purely cosmetic items, and the pre-order/IE bonuses have all been locked to specific players (those willing to pay for them and/or those who ordered early).
Cosmetic items are cosmetic. They are not an "area of the game," nor are they content. You are not entitled to them. Period.
Think of it this way. Three months ago, you bought a pretty expensive bag from [insert brand name here]. Now, three months later, they're offering the same bag for a discount, but it comes with a cool new built-in keychain. You say, "wow, I'd really like that keychain. maybe I'll just buy the bag again and put all of my old stuff in it." Then, you find out that you're unable to put anything from your old bag into your new one. Pretty ridiculous, right?
So you can have the keychain, but only if you're willing to buy the bag again and give up everything that was inside your old one.
1. You have no idea if they were planning on giving the brown wolfhound before this complaint thread, because the complaints started the instant ZO announced the Steam edition. That said, they shouldn't offer it either way, because it's encouraging this kind of behavior.
2. It's cosmetic. Not content. Pre-order cosmetic items are already locked to new players, and ZO was always clear on cosmetic items not being available to everyone in-game.
It's a pet. Get over it. Just move on and find something important to complain about. I'm in awe of how loud people are willing to squeal if they think they might get something, but I assure you, the rewards here are not as big as you think they will be.
2. Completely disregarding our differences on the meaning of the word "content" for now. Pre-order cosmetic items are still available, and likely will be for quite some time. And even if they said they were making an exception with cosmetic content, does that mean we're not allowed to voice our concerns? That's what these forums are for, isn't it? Just because it doesn't mean anything to you doesn't mean it's unimportant.
The rewards here are pretty much what we asked for. We wanted a dog, we're getting a dog. Some people are still upset that it isn't the same dog that the Steamies are getting, but I'm sure many are happy that we got one in the first place. I'd call this a victory.
Just goes to show, the only way to bring about change is to be vocal.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —6 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭They aren't offering the brown one to shut people up, there's already a brown one in the files. There's quite a few other minipets in the game files but not actually in the game and there's nothing from stopping them from adding more. People need to get over it.☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB2 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭This is what you get for offering free vanity stuff. The have-nots always want what the haves have. Just imagine what the $60 console game will come with for free that we who transfer for $20 won't get! But always know how much ZOS thanks us for doing such an extensive job beta testing all aspects of the game at our expense. I'd say ZOS owes us the whole nine yards for free at this point.
Come to think of it if Steam gets the basic game for $29.99 then we should get the console transfer for free. ZOS is gambling with our gaming...Edited by RatsnevE on July 18, 2014 7:51PM1 -
I go for a walk and come back to more players that just don't get it so yet again I will post this for any one of you that has called us Whiners or that we feel Entitled. "When did people become complacent. When did we stop fighting for simple things like respect. Those in this thread that have called each other names, that have bullied, or wanted to do nothing. What would it take for you to stand up for yourself? Does it have to reach a point where the subscription fee is doubled? or would you even be ok with that. Not just what would it take for you to quit the game but what would it take for you to love the game enough to actually fight to make it better and be treated fairly? Do not act like you deserve nothing. This issue may not be important to you, but how long will it be before another issues comes up that is?"
What do you want, a game that does not improve where you are treated with disrespect? Or do you want to show that something matters to you as a player so that maybe ZOS takes notice and does something about it? Better yet which player do you think ZOS appreciates more? The players that stand by simply using them to play their game and enjoy it without contributing to make it better through discussion while also criticizing anyone who does? Or the player that stands up for themselves and shows ZOS what they want and what is important to them so that they can make a better game, and in turn make more money off of not just current Subs but future new players in a way that is far more efficient then dangling a shiny toy in front of newcomers? Think before you type, if you are name calling or saying we are whining you are not being constructive nor helpful in any manor, you are being a bully. If you actually care about the game either contribute helpful information or do not comment.4 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@nerevarine1138
Just because you don't understand the value in playing on the Steam network doesn't mean that you get to decide that the rest of us should just be complacent that we are excluded from it. Please stop posting about this topic. We get it. You don't want to play on Steam. Some of us do and we will continue to ask ZOS for as long as we like. Stop invalidating what we want simply because you don't share the sentiment.:trollin:6 -
ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »I go for a walk and come back to more players that just don't get it so yet again I will post this for any one of you that has called us Whiners or that we feel Entitled. "When did people become complacent. When did we stop fighting for simple things like respect. Those in this thread that have called each other names, that have bullied, or wanted to do nothing. What would it take for you to stand up for yourself? Does it have to reach a point where the subscription fee is doubled? or would you even be ok with that. Not just what would it take for you to quit the game but what would it take for you to love the game enough to actually fight to make it better and be treated fairly? Do not act like you deserve nothing. This issue may not be important to you, but how long will it be before another issues comes up that is?"
What do you want, a game that does not improve where you are treated with disrespect? Or do you want to show that something matters to you as a player so that maybe ZOS takes notice and does something about it? Better yet which player do you think ZOS appreciates more? The players that stand by simply using them to play their game and enjoy it without contributing to make it better through discussion while also criticizing anyone who does? Or the player that stands up for themselves and shows ZOS what they want and what is important to them so that they can make a better game, and in turn make more money off of not just current Subs but future new players in a way that is far more efficient then dangling a shiny toy in front of newcomers? Think before you type, if you are name calling or saying we are whining you are not being constructive nor helpful in any manor, you are being a bully. If you actually care about the game either contribute helpful information or do not comment.
... and since you still don't get it. You aren't entitled to every single sales promotion trinket that comes along from here until eternity.0 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Okay, so let me humor you for a moment.txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »*snip*I go for a walk and come back to more players that just don't get it so yet again I will post this for any one of you that has called us Whiners or that we feel Entitled. "When did people become complacent. When did we stop fighting for simple things like respect. Those in this thread that have called each other names, that have bullied, or wanted to do nothing. What would it take for you to stand up for yourself? Does it have to reach a point where the subscription fee is doubled? or would you even be ok with that. Not just what would it take for you to quit the game but what would it take for you to love the game enough to actually fight to make it better and be treated fairly? Do not act like you deserve nothing. This issue may not be important to you, but how long will it be before another issues comes up that is?"
What do you want, a game that does not improve where you are treated with disrespect? Or do you want to show that something matters to you as a player so that maybe ZOS takes notice and does something about it? Better yet which player do you think ZOS appreciates more? The players that stand by simply using them to play their game and enjoy it without contributing to make it better through discussion while also criticizing anyone who does? Or the player that stands up for themselves and shows ZOS what they want and what is important to them so that they can make a better game, and in turn make more money off of not just current Subs but future new players in a way that is far more efficient then dangling a shiny toy in front of newcomers? Think before you type, if you are name calling or saying we are whining you are not being constructive nor helpful in any manor, you are being a bully. If you actually care about the game either contribute helpful information or do not comment.
... and since you still don't get it. You aren't entitled to every single sales promotion trinket that comes along from here until eternity.
Assuming that we aren't rightfully entitled to this, ignoring the fact that we were already promised access to 100% of the content in the game, are we still not allowed to voice our opinions? There's this thing called free speech. If we aren't entitled to the dog, and we aren't entitled to full Steam integration, then we're at least entitled to free speech. We can and will speak up against anything that we don't like. That's what humanity is. You can argue all you want, but at the end of the day, we have a right to complain which no one can take away.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —5 -
emeraldbay wrote: »
Okay, so let me humor you for a moment.txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »*snip*I go for a walk and come back to more players that just don't get it so yet again I will post this for any one of you that has called us Whiners or that we feel Entitled. "When did people become complacent. When did we stop fighting for simple things like respect. Those in this thread that have called each other names, that have bullied, or wanted to do nothing. What would it take for you to stand up for yourself? Does it have to reach a point where the subscription fee is doubled? or would you even be ok with that. Not just what would it take for you to quit the game but what would it take for you to love the game enough to actually fight to make it better and be treated fairly? Do not act like you deserve nothing. This issue may not be important to you, but how long will it be before another issues comes up that is?"
What do you want, a game that does not improve where you are treated with disrespect? Or do you want to show that something matters to you as a player so that maybe ZOS takes notice and does something about it? Better yet which player do you think ZOS appreciates more? The players that stand by simply using them to play their game and enjoy it without contributing to make it better through discussion while also criticizing anyone who does? Or the player that stands up for themselves and shows ZOS what they want and what is important to them so that they can make a better game, and in turn make more money off of not just current Subs but future new players in a way that is far more efficient then dangling a shiny toy in front of newcomers? Think before you type, if you are name calling or saying we are whining you are not being constructive nor helpful in any manor, you are being a bully. If you actually care about the game either contribute helpful information or do not comment.
... and since you still don't get it. You aren't entitled to every single sales promotion trinket that comes along from here until eternity.
Assuming that we aren't rightfully entitled to this, ignoring the fact that we were already promised access to 100% of the content in the game, are we still not allowed to voice our opinions? There's this thing called free speech. If we aren't entitled to the dog, and we aren't entitled to full Steam integration, then we're at least entitled to free speech. We can and will speak up against anything that we don't like. That's what humanity is. You can argue all you want, but at the end of the day, we have a right to complain which no one can take away.
Agreed emerald. What does telling us were not entitled even accomplish? It is bullying we get it you don't agree why put us down when what we are doing will make the game better in the first place, you certainly aren't losing anything from it in fact you are gaining from it by the game being better and if its better more players.2 -
emeraldbay wrote: »
Okay, so let me humor you for a moment.txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »ianangelospreub18_ESO wrote: »*snip*I go for a walk and come back to more players that just don't get it so yet again I will post this for any one of you that has called us Whiners or that we feel Entitled. "When did people become complacent. When did we stop fighting for simple things like respect. Those in this thread that have called each other names, that have bullied, or wanted to do nothing. What would it take for you to stand up for yourself? Does it have to reach a point where the subscription fee is doubled? or would you even be ok with that. Not just what would it take for you to quit the game but what would it take for you to love the game enough to actually fight to make it better and be treated fairly? Do not act like you deserve nothing. This issue may not be important to you, but how long will it be before another issues comes up that is?"
What do you want, a game that does not improve where you are treated with disrespect? Or do you want to show that something matters to you as a player so that maybe ZOS takes notice and does something about it? Better yet which player do you think ZOS appreciates more? The players that stand by simply using them to play their game and enjoy it without contributing to make it better through discussion while also criticizing anyone who does? Or the player that stands up for themselves and shows ZOS what they want and what is important to them so that they can make a better game, and in turn make more money off of not just current Subs but future new players in a way that is far more efficient then dangling a shiny toy in front of newcomers? Think before you type, if you are name calling or saying we are whining you are not being constructive nor helpful in any manor, you are being a bully. If you actually care about the game either contribute helpful information or do not comment.
... and since you still don't get it. You aren't entitled to every single sales promotion trinket that comes along from here until eternity.
Assuming that we aren't rightfully entitled to this, ignoring the fact that we were already promised access to 100% of the content in the game, are we still not allowed to voice our opinions? There's this thing called free speech. If we aren't entitled to the dog, and we aren't entitled to full Steam integration, then we're at least entitled to free speech. We can and will speak up against anything that we don't like. That's what humanity is. You can argue all you want, but at the end of the day, we have a right to complain which no one can take away.
You are not entitled to free speech on a private forum. Sorry. The first amendment only applies to the government not being able to limit your speech.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIDaEWwjcC8This discussion has been closed.