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This game is great, but not many realize it.
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Crumpy✭✭✭✭Mediocrity does not equate to 'Great'
Unless, of course, you are one of the FBs.I lyke not this quill.6 -
Jarnhand✭✭✭A big chunk of the players that came to this game, came for the PvP part, not the lore, not the Skyrim experience online, not the fluff or hello kitty/my little pony experience.
A large part of the PvPers come for other games like DAoC, games that do PvP well. If the game do not do PvP good, and balanced, those players leave as soon as something better is available, or go back to where the game they came from.
To PvPers realm/class/skill balance is paramount. Same is a hard line on cheaters/exploiters. PvP need to have a reason, a goal, or it becomes meaningless and boring after some time. Sadly ESO got none of this. There are BIG gamebreaking class/skill imbalances, there are classes like the NB that got 6-8 buged skills. The game has several exploits that have been live for months, and Zenimax do NOT hit the exploiters/cheater with bans. You can see people use exploits on live for weeks on end, with no bans or fast hotfixes to fix it. Its like going into a soccer match, where the one side is allowed to use brute force, and there is nothing the other team can do about it, except leave the match. The referee is just standing there, doing nothing!
The first couple months almost all Cyrodiil instances were from medium to heavy/locked load in primetime. Now only 2 instances are even at medium primetime. This game has lost a huge huge number of players, and still Zenimax in last letter write little or nothing about fixing the things that matter for Cyrodiil. They even sad they were more or less finished fixing the NB class, a class riddled with skill bugs, a class they said they had focus on, and fixed almost nothing! This is a HUGE slap in the face to a big group of the players that havent already left.
The only reason for many of the other PvPers that are still in the game havent left, is because there simply isnt any better PvP game to go to, if they do not go back to DAoC that is. But as soon as there is a better game out there, many of those players are also gone.
I know Zenimax of course do not give out any numbers, but if you want to understand how many people that have left this game take a look at 2 things:
1. The many people reporting their guilds (PvP or not), have gone for a few hundred members to almost dead in the last few weeks.
2. Take a look at the Cyrodiil numbers in prime time, the Europa instances are all dead but 2, the rest at just emperor farms (which will also lead to other problems later on).
The PvE/Elder Scrolls fans/crowd can say whatever they want, but this game was marketed and sold as a PvP end game game, not as a Skyrim online. The game is currently more or less in beta stage due to how much is broken/buged, and Zenimax do not seem to have focus on fixing the game that give it bad rep. Instead they are now focused on fluff, that is nice and all, but should have not even been given time when the game is in the state it currently is in.
But any way, the PvE/Skyrim crowd can just burry their heads in the sand and say all is good and super, and for them it can be actually, because a PvE game do not need the degree of balance a PvP game need. But the problem is the game is bleeding players like crazy, and this is of course a very bad thing, for ALL the players.
And the more players that give up and leave, the more bad rep the game gets, and the faster it 'dies', or rather become F2P, and all that will lead to. PvPers tend to be very passionate about the games they play, so when they get frustrated and leave, they also spread their anger around...7 -
Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »I
Please do tell what other mmo's have that this one hasn't? I consider myself a mmorpg vet, there is little I haven't touched and I started with DAOC.
Ridiculous troll post if you have the experience you claim. You know full well what other games have that this doesn't from freedom to explore through functioning guilds, housing, proper social and RP features to the ability to actually group together as and when we want.
I knA big chunk of the players that came to this game, came for the PvP part, not the lore, not the Skyrim experience online, not the fluff or hello kitty/my little pony experience.
A large part of the PvPers come for other games like DAoC, games that do PvP well. If the game do not do PvP good, and balanced, those players leave as soon as something better is available, or go back to where the game they came from.
To PvPers realm/class/skill balance is paramount. Same is a hard line on cheaters/exploiters. PvP need to have a reason, a goal, or it becomes meaningless and boring after some time. Sadly ESO got none of this. There are BIG gamebreaking class/skill imbalances, there are classes like the NB that got 6-8 buged skills. The game has several exploits that have been live for months, and Zenimax do NOT hit the exploiters/cheater with bans. You can see people use exploits on live for weeks on end, with no bans or fast hotfixes to fix it. Its like going into a soccer match, where the one side is allowed to use brute force, and there is nothing the other team can do about it, except leave the match. The referee is just standing there, doing nothing!
The first couple months almost all Cyrodiil instances were from medium to heavy/locked load in primetime. Now only 2 instances are even at medium primetime. This game has lost a huge huge number of players, and still Zenimax in last letter write little or nothing about fixing the things that matter for Cyrodiil. They even sad they were more or less finished fixing the NB class, a class riddled with skill bugs, a class they said they had focus on, and fixed almost nothing! This is a HUGE slap in the face to a big group of the players that havent already left.
The only reason for many of the other PvPers that are still in the game havent left, is because there simply isnt any better PvP game to go to, if they do not go back to DAoC that is. But as soon as there is a better game out there, many of those players are also gone.
I know Zenimax of course do not give out any numbers, but if you want to understand how many people that have left this game take a look at 2 things:
1. The many people reporting their guilds (PvP or not), have gone for a few hundred members to almost dead in the last few weeks.
2. Take a look at the Cyrodiil numbers in prime time, the Europa instances are all dead but 2, the rest at just emperor farms (which will also lead to other problems later on).
The PvE/Elder Scrolls fans/crowd can say whatever they want, but this game was marketed and sold as a PvP end game game, not as a Skyrim online. The game is currently more or less in beta stage due to how much is broken/buged, and Zenimax do not seem to have focus on fixing the game that give it bad rep. Instead they are now focused on fluff, that is nice and all, but should have not even been given time when the game is in the state it currently is in.
But any way, the PvE/Skyrim crowd can just burry their heads in the sand and say all is good and super, and for them it can be actually, because a PvE game do not need the degree of balance a PvP game need. But the problem is the game is bleeding players like crazy, and this is of course a very bad thing, for ALL the players.
And the more players that give up and leave, the more bad rep the game gets, and the faster it 'dies', or rather become F2P, and all that will lead to. PvPers tend to be very passionate about the games they play, so when they get frustrated and leave, they also spread their anger around...
I enjoy pvp, but I also love the pve aspect. I'm sure most players play for more than just pvp.I r robot
hear me roar0 -
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The problem is, people keep crying it's "unfinished" - but that's as a brand-new MMO should be.
Sigh, this is like watching a high-rise building go up, except we've been allowed to move in before all the interior has been finished. Some folks just don't understand that, and think everything they can think of should have been on the table from the get-go. Yet an ongoing MMO shouldn't be thought of like a normal building; it ought to be thought of as like that one lady's house, where she kept adding on because ghosts told her to - it's never finished (yet hopefully what they add makes more sense than some of that lady's additions!)
I'm glad we have things to look forward to, that _will not be locked behind an expansion that costs another $60_. That part there is key.
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isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The game set off as an MMO rpg but is now becoming a RPG mmo.
The question is where is the market? it might be able to calve a niche out of the market as a RP focused MMO but gamers nowadays tend to be less interested in the RP element. Especially franchised RP because for many the lore means nothing.
You hit the nail on the head - this IS more like an "RPG mmo" than the reverse.
RP isn't just about players talking funny to each other; it's about how you feel running around the world. Lots of RPers seem to have been attracted to ESO; I'm one of them. I like that the NPCs talk to me like a person, not like a cog in military machinery that "has to do" no matter what, and is expected to do what anyone tells them. I approach a guard, and they say, "Oh, are you with the squad? We needed reinforcements." my reply - "I'm not with any squad." ie, I'm an independent dude. But tell me stuff, maybe I'll help, because I can and I feel like it.
The computer game play is much more organic, than, say, WoW or Wildstar, where I always just feel pushed around, just doing what I'm told. Too close to RL, shudder, bleah.
This, more than anything else, is what I appreciate most about ESO, and, in fact, Skyrim (which was such a breath of fresh air; after playing that, I knew ESO would most likely pull me away from WoW, and even if I check back for WoD, I know I'll come back here within the month.)
It's mostly MMO players who don't care about lore, and just want a level-capped character as fast as possible, because they think it's going to get them somewhere - or they're just in it for the computer-game element where there's nothing but combat, combat, combat.
*(as far as making RPGs into computer games go, its the combat that computer people went and focused on, only because that's the major part of an RPG that uses numbers; I do notice older TES games did have things like rep and charisma and things to do with personality and how likeable you are, that affect other characters/NPCs. Most computer games took personality right out of it, yet still dared to call themselves "RPGs", rather than single-character combat sims. Which is what most so-called computer RPGs are.)
Edited by isengrimb16_ESO on July 11, 2014 8:58AM4 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭I'm doing a lot more PvP now and enjoying it. A lot of the problems it had have been resolved. Unfortunately I fear it maybe be a little late. Its much harder to draw people back to a game than for a second time than it is at launch. I really can't understand why big AAA titles just don't understand this. I know they have shareholders and accountants to appease but surely even they can see that retaining that massive wave of optimism at the launch of a game is far easier than launching a sub par game and frantically trying to fix it post launch while the optimism turns to disappointment and you player base all leave for something else.
No matter how much effort you put in then its too late. You will never have that mass of people trying your game ever again in its history. it's a make or break opportunity.
I fear ESO broke it.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/10/raptrs-most-played-pc-list-shows-strong-start-for-wildstar/Interestingly enough, The Elder Scrolls Online's hours played were nearly cut in half from May to June, and Star Wars: The Old Republic was bumped from the list entirely. It's important to note that these rankings are only based on hours played by those who use Raptr for each play session. Check out the complete infographic and press release after the cut.
Edited by Hilgara on July 11, 2014 8:54AM3 -
Cyanhide✭✭✭I'm doing a lot more PvP now and enjoying it. A lot of the problems it had have been resolved. Unfortunately I fear it maybe be a little late. Its much harder to draw people back to a game than for a second time than it is at launch. I really can't understand why big AAA titles just don't understand this. I know they have shareholders and accountants to appease but surely even they can see that retaining that massive wave of optimism at the launch of a game is far easier than launching a sub par game and frantically trying to fix it post launch while the optimism turns to disappointment and you player base all leave for something else.
No matter how much effort you put in then its too late. You will never have that mass of people trying your game ever again in its history. it's a make or break opportunity.
Aww c'mon quit it already, the game has been out for 3 months! When will you people understand this is normal. Honestly think about it 3 months.
If we would be 12 months further, and it was still in a bad shape, okay then there would be room for discussion. But 3 months?
The game has barely been released, even final fantasy had a total reboot and it still going strong, did they went the F2P route?
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭I'm doing a lot more PvP now and enjoying it. A lot of the problems it had have been resolved. Unfortunately I fear it maybe be a little late. Its much harder to draw people back to a game than for a second time than it is at launch. I really can't understand why big AAA titles just don't understand this. I know they have shareholders and accountants to appease but surely even they can see that retaining that massive wave of optimism at the launch of a game is far easier than launching a sub par game and frantically trying to fix it post launch while the optimism turns to disappointment and you player base all leave for something else.
No matter how much effort you put in then its too late. You will never have that mass of people trying your game ever again in its history. it's a make or break opportunity.
Aww c'mon quit it already, the game has been out for 3 months! When will you people understand this is normal. Honestly think about it 3 months.
If we would be 12 months further, and it was still in a bad shape, okay then there would be room for discussion. But 3 months?
The game has barely been released, even final fantasy had a total reboot and it still going strong, did they went the F2P route?
Its not an opinion its fact. The game is losing players at a phenomenal rate. The success of an MMO relies on how many of the massive numbers they can retain at launch. Especially one charging a sub. Wildstar isn't even a particularly good game but more people are playing it than are playing ESO.4 -
Cyanhide✭✭✭
Its not an opinion its fact. The game is losing players at a phenomenal rate. The success of an MMO relies on how many of the massive numbers they can retain at launch. Especially one charging a sub. Wildstar isn't even a particularly good game but more people are playing it than are playing ESO.
What a bunch of horse cr*** Opinion of fact? What fact? Unless they can show actuall numbers of players its all a bunch of BS, its not even solely mmorpgs, its just a list of games.
Also relies on the numbers it can retain at launch? Really? LOL! Everyone knows that an mmorpg relies on an average of people. An average a month, and if that average cuts all expenses then its good. No mmorpg needs to be a WoW killer to survive, Look at vanguard, look at DaoC, Asherons call, its still p2p!
Wildstar is the new flavor of the month, and it will pass fast. The game is just a grind, nothing more. I dare you, go and play it.
Spewing around garbage and claiming " fact" tsk tsk tsk.11 -
JinShepard01✭✭✭Far to many rose tinted glasses in this thread.. that you can like the game is fine but calling it a awesome MMO that doesn't deserve the bad rep is wrong on so many levels and that just shows what kind of players are playing games these days.Why do people complain?
''Because players want to provide feedback and help shape a product they still see as having the potential to be great.''4 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
Its not an opinion its fact. The game is losing players at a phenomenal rate. The success of an MMO relies on how many of the massive numbers they can retain at launch. Especially one charging a sub. Wildstar isn't even a particularly good game but more people are playing it than are playing ESO.
What a bunch of horse cr*** Opinion of fact? What fact? Unless they can show actuall numbers of players its all a bunch of BS, its not even solely mmorpgs, its just a list of games.
Also relies on the numbers it can retain at launch? Really? LOL! Everyone knows that an mmorpg relies on an average of people. An average a month, and if that average cuts all expenses then its good. No mmorpg needs to be a WoW killer to survive, Look at vanguard, look at DaoC, Asherons call, its still p2p!
Wildstar is the new flavor of the month, and it will pass fast. The game is just a grind, nothing more. I dare you, go and play it.
Spewing around garbage and claiming " fact" tsk tsk tsk.
Forget the other games. Concentrate on one sentence.
The Elder Scrolls Online's hours played were nearly cut in half from May to June
but you keep telling yourself its ok. I won't argue, don't want to burst your bubble
5 -
LrdRahvin✭✭✭✭✭Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »This game gets a bad rap... And honestly I'm not sure why... People are focusing on all the negatives in this game ( and too be honest, I can't think of many except maybe that there's no arena or duel function ), but people don't realize that there is NO perfect mmo. I had fun in WoW, I had fun in a Tera, Perfect World, Last chaos, ect but I can't think of anything that they do better than this game. The speed of updates in this game puts WoW to shame. People are just too damn picky. Thank you Zenimax and Bethesda for making this game and your constant updates and fixes to the game are extremely impressive.
"This game is great but everyone hates it"...so...ummmm...errr...yeah.4 -
Cyanhide✭✭✭
Oh boy, wow, just wow. Yeah forget about those facts right? Don't look at how other games manage to survive, oh and I forgot EQ2?Forget the other games. Concentrate on one sentence.
This coming from the person who started with "Its not an opinion its fact." Its easy to form an opinion if you just take what fits your biased opinion.
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
Oh boy, wow, just wow. Yeah forget about those facts right? Don't look at how other games manage to survive, oh and I forgot EQ2?Forget the other games. Concentrate on one sentence.
This coming from the person who started with "Its not an opinion its fact." Its easy to form an opinion if you just take what fits your biased opinion.
EQ2 survived by becoming F2P but that's not the point. I can't think of any other AAA game that has had such bad press at launch except for maybe Final Fantasy XIV. Hours spent playing the game have halved this month on last month. That's the fact I was referring to. That is unsustainable2 -
Cyanhide✭✭✭EQ2 survived by becoming F2P but that's not the point. I can't think of any other AAA game that has had such bad press at launch except for maybe Final Fantasy XIV. Hours spent playing the game have halved this month on last month. That's the fact I was referring to. That is unsustainable
That's a wrong assumption then, when a game launches its normal to have a high amount of players, because its new, some players like it, other don't.
Wildstar is one of the reasons numbers are halved, probably the broken PVP as well. But Zenimax( every mmorpg developer ) takes this in account that when a new mmo launches they can expect a lower amount of players.
Having a lower playtime has no affect on whether or not its sustainable, as long as we don't have actual data showing their overall cost, and their income we can only guess.
Again, I can't stress this enough, not every mmo has to have the same amount of players like WoW to survive.
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Raash✭✭✭✭I dont know... But something tells me if more people find the game bad then good - then perhaps there might be something to it? On the other hand, its a dumb thing to say something is bad really, when most things boils down to individual tastes. The big unfortunate thing with this game is that it seems the crowd dont vote in ESO´s favor when it comes to if its good or bad. Just sayin, dont shoot the messenger please.
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Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm doing a lot more PvP now and enjoying it. A lot of the problems it had have been resolved. Unfortunately I fear it maybe be a little late. Its much harder to draw people back to a game than for a second time than it is at launch. I really can't understand why big AAA titles just don't understand this. I know they have shareholders and accountants to appease but surely even they can see that retaining that massive wave of optimism at the launch of a game is far easier than launching a sub par game and frantically trying to fix it post launch while the optimism turns to disappointment and you player base all leave for something else.
No matter how much effort you put in then its too late. You will never have that mass of people trying your game ever again in its history. it's a make or break opportunity.
Aww c'mon quit it already, the game has been out for 3 months! When will you people understand this is normal. Honestly think about it 3 months.
If we would be 12 months further, and it was still in a bad shape, okay then there would be room for discussion. But 3 months?
The game has barely been released, even final fantasy had a total reboot and it still going strong, did they went the F2P route?
Its not an opinion its fact. The game is losing players at a phenomenal rate. The success of an MMO relies on how many of the massive numbers they can retain at launch. Especially one charging a sub. Wildstar isn't even a particularly good game but more people are playing it than are playing ESO.
Hmm,
I spoke to a Dev a while ago and I asked him "what do you think must an MMO have to survive?".
That person said, an MMO doesn't need 13 million players like wow once had - if you get a few loyal maybe 500k then you are all settled. The basics are done, what follows are minor updates and improvements, you can settle down the costs for your project, also if less players play, less support will be needed that's why many companies hand out jobs like crazy before the game is about to start, just to fire those after a few months.
Too many companies make the mistake of running for the masses, but masses you can control very hard. If you have 5 million players, then the chances are big that you have 5 different types of players and if you cater to them all, your costs will rise exponentially and you still lose players as nobody will be happy with their piece of the cake."
So what do we learn from that?
A loyal gamer is more important than a whiner that only plays at release or when a new xpac is around.
WS does focus on hardcore gamers, if they maintain a few hundred k of them, then I am sure they will survive.
ESO right now is still trying to please everyone, the VR nerf for example tried to hold the "not so well playing" citizens in the game, while it annoyed those who play decently good.
As sooner ZO does decide which gamer they support, as better it will be and the subs should stay on a decent level.
That whole fluctuation right now is due the "what will we do" attitude of ZO, they just need to settle down and realize who they want to play their game. WS is a step further there and that's why they seem to have a more steady community, even though the game has many bugs still and a lot of complaints like their gold system sees a total revamp.
That said WS has another big "plus" that helps them a lot. The game on max level is supposed to last many months, at ESO due the nerf and the wrong Craglorn patch, the game at max level has seen a big decline sadly.
For instance,
at WS it takes someone about 6 months to reach what players in ESO reach in a week of Craglorn (max Vet Rank). It also takes a long grind to get ready for raiding, at ESO everyone can instantly go to a Trial no attunements needed.
This all cuts the max level game short or enhances it, while WS lacks stuff for Casuals, it has a lot for those that it was designed for.
ESO is a great game, but things like the VR nerf, the 1.3 guild system or the trial system just don't fit to each other. On the one hand they want us to play with others, yet they remove the group content that VR was, but at the same time all the benefits except the dye system in 1.3 are for groups and guilds.
It just doesn't make sense.
In my opinion ZO has to decide for something and then stick to it, that's how you win loyal subs.Edited by Audigy on July 11, 2014 11:28AM7 -
Omnevolus✭✭✭isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »The problem is, people keep crying it's "unfinished" - but that's as a brand-new MMO should be.
Sigh, this is like watching a high-rise building go up, except we've been allowed to move in before all the interior has been finished. Some folks just don't understand that, and think everything they can think of should have been on the table from the get-go. Yet an ongoing MMO shouldn't be thought of like a normal building; it ought to be thought of as like that one lady's house, where she kept adding on because ghosts told her to - it's never finished (yet hopefully what they add makes more sense than some of that lady's additions!)
I'm glad we have things to look forward to, that _will not be locked behind an expansion that costs another $60_. That part there is key.
EXACTLY.
See, bunch of unreasonable people that had unrealistic expectations, without the patience to wait for what they want, even though it is all coming down the pipe. ZOS tries harder than any other MMO company ever, to give everyone what they want, but it takes a lot of work and time.
Thus, I REPEAT (even though most of you seem determined to hold on to your views, reason and facts be damned, but whatever):
"all MMO's are a bare-boned mess of trial and error for a long time after release, and most are not actually good games until the second year, sometimes later. There is always a sparse end-game at first, always awkward mechanics, always class imbalances, and many of these issues last for years in those games. And ZOS is using trailblazing technology and ideas, yet for some reason, everyone expects everything to be perfect out of the box. No MMO ever has been, nor ever will be.
Yet here in the third month after release people are actually infuriated, quitting the game!, over the lack of features that most MMO's don't have until well past their first year on the market. I've seen people demanding features here, saying they should have been implemented at launch! lol, that EQ2, for example, and many other games, did not have until their third or fourth year. And often those are features that very few other games even attempted, much less at the beginning.
All of those MMO's also break something every time they fix/patch something. It's incredibly common, yet it's the end of the world here. Tantrum, and ragequit."Edited by Omnevolus on July 11, 2014 4:57PM8 -
Omnevolus✭✭✭I'm doing a lot more PvP now and enjoying it. A lot of the problems it had have been resolved. Unfortunately I fear it maybe be a little late. Its much harder to draw people back to a game than for a second time than it is at launch. I really can't understand why big AAA titles just don't understand this. I know they have shareholders and accountants to appease but surely even they can see that retaining that massive wave of optimism at the launch of a game is far easier than launching a sub par game and frantically trying to fix it post launch while the optimism turns to disappointment and you player base all leave for something else.
No matter how much effort you put in then its too late. You will never have that mass of people trying your game ever again in its history. it's a make or break opportunity.
Aww c'mon quit it already, the game has been out for 3 months! When will you people understand this is normal. Honestly think about it 3 months.
If we would be 12 months further, and it was still in a bad shape, okay then there would be room for discussion. But 3 months?
The game has barely been released, even final fantasy had a total reboot and it still going strong, did they went the F2P route?
Its not an opinion its fact. The game is losing players at a phenomenal rate. The success of an MMO relies on how many of the massive numbers they can retain at launch. Especially one charging a sub. Wildstar isn't even a particularly good game but more people are playing it than are playing ESO.
This is simply untrue. But also a good example of the unreasonable nature of most of this games detractors. Cyanide's point trumps all these others. You're all simply being unfair and/or unrealistic, or even using false statements. All the while, plenty of people are telling you things that should make you feel better about the game, giving it more consideration and a better chance. BUT NO. WHAAAAAAA, instead.
SMH5 -
Omnevolus✭✭✭A big chunk of the players that came to this game, came for the PvP part, not the lore, not the Skyrim experience online, not the fluff or hello kitty/my little pony experience.
A large part of the PvPers come for other games like DAoC, games that do PvP well. If the game do not do PvP good, and balanced, those players leave as soon as something better is available, or go back to where the game they came from.
To PvPers realm/class/skill balance is paramount. Same is a hard line on cheaters/exploiters. PvP need to have a reason, a goal, or it becomes meaningless and boring after some time. Sadly ESO got none of this. There are BIG gamebreaking class/skill imbalances, there are classes like the NB that got 6-8 buged skills. The game has several exploits that have been live for months, and Zenimax do NOT hit the exploiters/cheater with bans. You can see people use exploits on live for weeks on end, with no bans or fast hotfixes to fix it. Its like going into a soccer match, where the one side is allowed to use brute force, and there is nothing the other team can do about it, except leave the match. The referee is just standing there, doing nothing!
The first couple months almost all Cyrodiil instances were from medium to heavy/locked load in primetime. Now only 2 instances are even at medium primetime. This game has lost a huge huge number of players, and still Zenimax in last letter write little or nothing about fixing the things that matter for Cyrodiil. They even sad they were more or less finished fixing the NB class, a class riddled with skill bugs, a class they said they had focus on, and fixed almost nothing! This is a HUGE slap in the face to a big group of the players that havent already left.
The only reason for many of the other PvPers that are still in the game havent left, is because there simply isnt any better PvP game to go to, if they do not go back to DAoC that is. But as soon as there is a better game out there, many of those players are also gone.
I know Zenimax of course do not give out any numbers, but if you want to understand how many people that have left this game take a look at 2 things:
1. The many people reporting their guilds (PvP or not), have gone for a few hundred members to almost dead in the last few weeks.
2. Take a look at the Cyrodiil numbers in prime time, the Europa instances are all dead but 2, the rest at just emperor farms (which will also lead to other problems later on).
The PvE/Elder Scrolls fans/crowd can say whatever they want, but this game was marketed and sold as a PvP end game game, not as a Skyrim online. The game is currently more or less in beta stage due to how much is broken/buged, and Zenimax do not seem to have focus on fixing the game that give it bad rep. Instead they are now focused on fluff, that is nice and all, but should have not even been given time when the game is in the state it currently is in.
But any way, the PvE/Skyrim crowd can just burry their heads in the sand and say all is good and super, and for them it can be actually, because a PvE game do not need the degree of balance a PvP game need. But the problem is the game is bleeding players like crazy, and this is of course a very bad thing, for ALL the players.
And the more players that give up and leave, the more bad rep the game gets, and the faster it 'dies', or rather become F2P, and all that will lead to. PvPers tend to be very passionate about the games they play, so when they get frustrated and leave, they also spread their anger around...
Actually, these are normal and predictable trends. The only difference in this case, is everyone is making a much bigger deal out of it than is necessary. Exponentially so.2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »This game gets a bad rap... And honestly I'm not sure why... People are focusing on all the negatives in this game ( and too be honest, I can't think of many except maybe that there's no arena or duel function ), but people don't realize that there is NO perfect mmo. I had fun in WoW, I had fun in a Tera, Perfect World, Last chaos, ect but I can't think of anything that they do better than this game. The speed of updates in this game puts WoW to shame. People are just too damn picky. Thank you Zenimax and Bethesda for making this game and your constant updates and fixes to the game are extremely impressive.
Let me first say I love this game. I really do. And outside of these forums I have defended it many times in comments to youtube videos and articles. With that said the problems that people have with this game are that it's become unplayable. I have lost interest in PvP because it's already hard enough to fight V12's without trying to do so at 8 FPS. There are still broken quests and the crafted items are constantly broken. So basically:- Crafting-Broken
- PvP-Broken
- PvE-Broken
*Edited for grammar and spelling.*Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on July 11, 2014 1:21PM:trollin:9 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭I'm doing a lot more PvP now and enjoying it. A lot of the problems it had have been resolved. Unfortunately I fear it maybe be a little late. Its much harder to draw people back to a game than for a second time than it is at launch. I really can't understand why big AAA titles just don't understand this. I know they have shareholders and accountants to appease but surely even they can see that retaining that massive wave of optimism at the launch of a game is far easier than launching a sub par game and frantically trying to fix it post launch while the optimism turns to disappointment and you player base all leave for something else.
No matter how much effort you put in then its too late. You will never have that mass of people trying your game ever again in its history. it's a make or break opportunity.
Aww c'mon quit it already, the game has been out for 3 months! When will you people understand this is normal. Honestly think about it 3 months.
If we would be 12 months further, and it was still in a bad shape, okay then there would be room for discussion. But 3 months?
The game has barely been released, even final fantasy had a total reboot and it still going strong, did they went the F2P route?
Its not an opinion its fact. The game is losing players at a phenomenal rate. The success of an MMO relies on how many of the massive numbers they can retain at launch. Especially one charging a sub. Wildstar isn't even a particularly good game but more people are playing it than are playing ESO.
This is simply untrue.
SMH
More people are playing WS right now than ESO. That's a fact and I posted a link. Denying a fact doesn't stop if from being a fact.6 -
Food4Thought✭✭✭This game suffers from the same problem that every MMO suffers from. Insufficient endgame content for the power players to chew on until the first major game update.
WoW was an exception to the norm. They came at a time when the average MMO didn't even have 250K players. The game was buggy as hell when first released almost to the point it was unplayable at times. Having a million subscribers plus was just something that networks of the time just weren't able to handle yet.
But Blizzards team also knew they needed time to work out the bugs and get more content online. So their system as to give unbelieveably low equipment loot drops which forced their player base to run instances for months to get all the gear they needed. If I remember right, the 40 man instances were time locked as well. Once beaten, you had to wait a week to run them again.
In other words, Blizzard told you you had to do other things like look for Black Lotus for potions, go fishing, or level some secondary skill you had no desire to ever use. They had as little end game content ready as any other MMO only they knew how to drag what little they had out so that the power players would still be busy 6 months after release and still trying to beat the first 40 man dungeon.
So when the power players get bored, they complain. And that complaining gets contagious. I have seen games like Age of Conan and Star Wars TOR, go from thriving communities to ghost towns in 3 months. And all because the game developer didn't know what to do about people who burn through content that should take the average player 3 months to complete and spit through it in a few weeks and ask for more.0 -
kewl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nobody had to convince me to play Skyrim almost every day for three years.
If you like ESO, you play. If you're meh about ESO, you play till something better comes along.
It's that simple, no epiphany required.Edited by kewl on July 11, 2014 1:52PM3 -
I agree, this game has such a bad rep it isn't even funny. Most people want to play the game but to scared because of stupid reviews like angry gamer which is the first video you get when go to youtube.
The game may have had a terrible launch, but so far I have had zero bug. Overall the game feels very polished and smooth. I wish Zenimax would give out guest passes after update 3 so people can see for themselves.
No, the game had a very smooth and good launch, the problems started after a few weeks when some people where hitting VR10 and complained about no endgame! Go figure. I have now 5 characters from lvl 27 - VR10 divided on all factions, people are complaining about bugged quests and this and than, WHY do I not have any problems? There are not a single quest I have not been able to complete so far.
...uh, WHAT? Very good and smooth launch?
Pre-launch, ESO was roundly crucified by the entire gaming press. Then, when the game flipped from beta to full release, there was no appreciable difference between the two--many quests had been bugged for months prior, and were released just as bugged (and we're talking progression-killing, game-halting bugs). There were literally thousands, possibly tens of thousands of bots, completely filling zone chat with gold spam, and you could see them teleporting all over the place harvesting nodes, turning in quest objectives before teleporting off, farming every dungeon boss, and zooming around in the sky.
That's great if you claim to have never encountered a game-stopping bug, but I seriously doubt that was in the first couple months after launch. ESO has come a long way since then, but "good and smooth launch" is bizarro, revisionist history.
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leandro.800ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭When update 4 comes along with justice system and all bugs are resolved (as they have been) the only thing this game needs is a bit of more stamina based balance with these things in mind ESO will probably become the best mmo on the market before this year ends.1 -
steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »It's good that you're enjoying the game as is. Others aren't. But if you cannot imagine what other games have and this one is currently missing then I really cannot believe you've played many MMO's.
Please do tell what other mmo's have that this one hasn't? I consider myself a mmorpg vet, there is little I haven't touched and I started with DAOC.
Auction House (all of them)
Multiple Spec (Warcraft, Rift, others)
More than one PVP option (all of them)
Tiered rewards for endgame content (all of them)
Housing (most of them)
Sidekick/Exemplar system (City of Heroes (defunct) boy do I miss this feature)
Pet Commands (most MMOs with pets)
Raids (most MMOs)
Unique gear (all of them)
Achievement rewards (most of them)
More than 1 "heroic"-style dungeon (most of them)
PVE/PVP faction "Reputations" (nearly all others)
Customize-able UI (nearly all others)
For my money, ESO has the best graphics, most immersive environment, and quite possibly the most potential of any MMO I've seen in the last several years, but let's not get all hyperbolic and claim that it already has everything a good MMO should. There's plenty of room to implement features that other games have, that just increase the quality of play.
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