Do NOT nerf veteran content ZOS!

Alphashado

badmojo wrote: »

Whats your point guys? That we should remain silent until the changes have ruined our game? We shouldn't voice our opinions of their announcement?

I'll admit the OP in the video got a bit angry about it and fears the worst, but even he said he's waiting for monday. We're all waiting to monday to actually dislike the changes. But, we're still going to voice our fears caused by their announcement.

You know if they announced they were ramping up 1-50 to be more inline with VR content, people would be voicing their concerns.

I would argue that this is the best time for us to voice our concerns about this change. There is no better time than now for them to reconsider their course of action. Once things are changed and live, it's harder for them to go back on their word. There is more backlash at that point.

It's specifically because they were vague in their explanation that we're even here bothering. If they layed it all out and left nothing to the imagination, this wouldn't be a "Do not" thread, it would be a "why I'm quitting" or "ZOS screwed up" or something more exact.

You guys can stick your heads in the sand and ignore the situation if you want to, but please stop trying to convince us to do that.

Aside from the heads in the sand line, that is a very reasonable, well thought out post. However that isn't what we are seeing here today. I may disagree with you, but I respect your right to speak your mind. It's raging posts from people acting like monkies slinging pooh around that tend to be discounted.

badmojo

born2beagator wrote: »

You are sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the part that said it would be a middle ground.

If you really think that screaming and stamping your foot like a little child that just had a toy taken away will get them to change their minds, be my guest.

Honestly its quite entertaining

Really? Because crying and stomping feet sure got them to change their minds about the VR content.

Middle ground! Middle ground! It's not middle ground to the people who want it to remain as difficulty and group focused as it currently is. To us it seems like we're losing ground. It seems like you guys won, and we lost.

How about we cut your wages in half? What, you don't want that? Okay, we'll settle for middle ground and only cut them by 25%, all better?

Alphashado

badmojo wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

You are sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the part that said it would be a middle ground.

If you really think that screaming and stamping your foot like a little child that just had a toy taken away will get them to change their minds, be my guest.

Honestly its quite entertaining

Really? Because crying and stomping feet sure got them to change their minds about the VR content.

Middle ground! Middle ground! It's not middle ground to the people who want it to remain as difficulty and group focused as it currently is. To us it seems like we're losing ground. It seems like you guys won, and we lost.

How about we cut your wages in half? What, you don't want that? Okay, we'll settle for middle ground and only cut them by 25%, all better?

That is EXACTLY what companies do when business is bad. And right now, business is bad.

badmojo

Ugh, don't even get me started on making game design decisions to maximize profits.

Tabbycat

badmojo wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

You are sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the part that said it would be a middle ground.

If you really think that screaming and stamping your foot like a little child that just had a toy taken away will get them to change their minds, be my guest.

Honestly its quite entertaining

Really? Because crying and stomping feet sure got them to change their minds about the VR content.

Middle ground! Middle ground! It's not middle ground to the people who want it to remain as difficulty and group focused as it currently is. To us it seems like we're losing ground. It seems like you guys won, and we lost.

How about we cut your wages in half? What, you don't want that? Okay, we'll settle for middle ground and only cut them by 25%, all better?

If more players are retained and more players return to the game because of this change, ZOS will see it as a positive change regardless of what you might think. They still have to pay bills. If keeping Veteran content as difficult as what you want causes their pay to be cut because of reduced revenue, what do you think is going to happen?

Phinix1

Tabbycat wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

You are sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the part that said it would be a middle ground.

If you really think that screaming and stamping your foot like a little child that just had a toy taken away will get them to change their minds, be my guest.

Honestly its quite entertaining

Really? Because crying and stomping feet sure got them to change their minds about the VR content.

Middle ground! Middle ground! It's not middle ground to the people who want it to remain as difficulty and group focused as it currently is. To us it seems like we're losing ground. It seems like you guys won, and we lost.

How about we cut your wages in half? What, you don't want that? Okay, we'll settle for middle ground and only cut them by 25%, all better?

If more players are retained and more players return to the game because of this change, ZOS will see it as a positive change regardless of what you might think. They still have to pay bills. If keeping Veteran content as difficult as what you want causes their pay to be cut because of reduced revenue, what do you think is going to happen?

Which is why I will be letting my sub run out if it is over done. All you can do is speak with your wallet. Corporations seldom care about anything else.

By seldom I mean never.

angel59

badmojo wrote: »

Really? Because crying and stomping feet sure got them to change their minds about the VR content.

Middle ground! Middle ground! It's not middle ground to the people who want it to remain as difficulty and group focused as it currently is. To us it seems like we're losing ground. It seems like you guys won, and we lost.

How about we cut your wages in half? What, you don't want that? Okay, we'll settle for middle ground and only cut them by 25%, all better?

I doubt the crying and stomping of feet played any role in their decision. The change in number of months subscribed since the release date made their decision for them.

At least you are honest. They are going to screw up "your game". Sorry to say, but they have already screwed up others' game. Enough that they had to reconsider their vision on VR. It tells me that the majority of players includes those who want to solo with occasional grouping, rather than just grouping content.

I do not get paid to play this game so I do not understand your wage analogy, other than another over the top reaction.

In the case for full disclosure, I am glad they are making the change. I am V5 and struggling with 3 mobs. I am trying assorted skills from all available and may again respec to try something new. However, I am not going to make any changes yet. I will see what changes are made. I wont decide if it is a winner, loser or perfect compromise until Monday.

badmojo

Player numbers and profits for this game won't mean much when I lose interest and find something else to play.

I doubt I'll quit because of this change. I mean I have met some nice people in this game and there's still Cyrodiil and group dungeons, but I fear this change will certainly cut down on the time I will get out of it.

Arkath

I'd really like it if it took less time to level a character. The difficulty I like. But the time investment for alts is just too much for me to deal with.

badmojo

angel59 wrote: »

I do not get paid to play this game so I do not understand your wage analogy, other than another over the top reaction.

Do you work? Wouldn't you be appalled if someone suggested a 25% cut in your wages shouldn't bother you? What if they told you first it would be 50%, then when you got upset they said "Okay, it'll only be 25%, that's middle ground, don't get upset!".

Origin

crislevin wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Content patch 3

this is a lie!, I clicked the button and nothing happened!

Sorry, you were too late. The button was already nerfed.. perfect example. LoL

Arsenic_Touch

Origin wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Content patch 3

this is a lie!, I clicked the button and nothing happened!

Sorry, you were too late. The button was already nerfed.. perfect example. LoL

It wasn't nerfed. It was never plugged in. Gotta keep things real here. It would totally break immersion if the button worked.

badmojo

Jeez, learn to click the button. Or leave!

Tabbycat

badmojo wrote: »

angel59 wrote: »

I do not get paid to play this game so I do not understand your wage analogy, other than another over the top reaction.

Do you work? Wouldn't you be appalled if someone suggested a 25% cut in your wages shouldn't bother you? What if they told you first it would be 50%, then when you got upset they said "Okay, it'll only be 25%, that's middle ground, don't get upset!".

That's like comparing apples to oranges.

Changes to this game isn't going to affect your livelihood or how difficult of a time you have paying your bills or being able to put food on the table and keep a roof over your head. You're comparing needs to wants.

badmojo

Tabbycat wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

angel59 wrote: »

I do not get paid to play this game so I do not understand your wage analogy, other than another over the top reaction.

Do you work? Wouldn't you be appalled if someone suggested a 25% cut in your wages shouldn't bother you? What if they told you first it would be 50%, then when you got upset they said "Okay, it'll only be 25%, that's middle ground, don't get upset!".

That's like comparing apples to oranges.

It's called an analogy. It's for times like this when people have a hard time putting the situation into perspective.

How does it not relate to the usage of 'middle ground'?

badmojo

Tabbycat wrote: »

Changes to this game isn't going to affect your livelihood or how difficult of a time you have paying your bills or being able to put food on the table and keep a roof over your head. You're comparing needs to wants.

I'll say this. In order to be stimulated by this games open world PvE experience, I NEED to be stimulated by a challenge. The difficulty in this game was my payment, so when you reduce that difficulty, it feels like the game is paying me less.

DeLindsay

Too late, but if you'd like to have your voice heard there is a poll here that is curious as if Players would support a difficulty "toggle/slider/choice". Unfortunately most of the NO's simply can't get it through their head that nobody is asking for an easy button, but a way for a player to CHOOSE to have actual difficult content. HERE is the link.

Tabbycat

badmojo wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

angel59 wrote: »

I do not get paid to play this game so I do not understand your wage analogy, other than another over the top reaction.

Do you work? Wouldn't you be appalled if someone suggested a 25% cut in your wages shouldn't bother you? What if they told you first it would be 50%, then when you got upset they said "Okay, it'll only be 25%, that's middle ground, don't get upset!".

That's like comparing apples to oranges.

It's called an analogy. It's for times like this when people have a hard time putting the situation into perspective.

How does it not relate to the usage of 'middle ground'?

If my boss told me I'd be taking a 25% pay cut, I'd be looking for a new job because I couldn't afford to pay my bills and buy food and keep a roof over my head (needs).

If some developer told me they have decided to change some aspect of the game and I want it to stay the same (wants) I can cancel my sub.

badmojo

Bah, analogies, some people just don't get em.

I'm done here, I think I've spammed just about enough in this thread. I'm off to play as much VR content I can before monday.

born2beagator

badmojo wrote: »

Bah, analogies, some people just don't get em.

I'm done here, I think I've spammed just about enough in this thread. I'm off to play as much VR content I can before monday.

Don't bother coming back if you are planning on taking your toys and going home after this patch. We don't need your self proclaimed spam

Tabbycat

badmojo wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Changes to this game isn't going to affect your livelihood or how difficult of a time you have paying your bills or being able to put food on the table and keep a roof over your head. You're comparing needs to wants.

I'll say this. In order to be stimulated by this games open world PvE experience, I NEED to be stimulated by a challenge. The difficulty in this game was my payment, so when you reduce that difficulty, it feels like the game is paying me less.

A more fitting analogy would be you pay a subscription fee to you local cable company to provide you with 100 channels of programming. Next month they tell you they are going to be cutting a portion of your channels in order to provide some other channels that a bunch of their other subscribers want but you have no interest in. And to top it off, they are dropping some of your favorite networks!

You're going to end up paying the same fee, but getting less enjoyment out of the product because of the missing network stations. Now you have to decide if you want to continue paying for the service or try to find a new carrier that has all your old channels or attempt to convince your current company to add back in your favorite channels.

Malpherian

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1GDsWhQB4

PLEASE do not cave to people that refuse to even try to adapt beyond the same five abilities to play an incredibly fun and unique game as intended. It will ruin the intelligent challenge of one of the few games in the industry with the courage to do something new!

Grow a spine ZOS! Stick to your guns! Nerf instanced solo quest content ONLY if you must, NOT anything you can get a group for. It is NOT difficult when I solo WORLD BOSSES two veteran levels above me!

Listen to your customers! 63% of your forum community say DO NOT nerf it! Try something like this before you knee-jerk this awesome game to death!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117204/player-housing-and-regional-ah-in-eso

Alright, I am going to help you out as there is something you apparently do not understand about the gaming world (Like Most Elitist).

1. You are playing a single class, with a DPS cookie cutter build.

* While this is fine, you need to understand that not everyone plays your class the same way you do, with the exact same armor and weapon skills, and the exact same Class specialization and skills. Some will be far different, and they have every much as right as you do to be able to go through the content.

2. Adapting as you call it, is not the same as being forced to re-spec your character entirely, change what weapons, and armor your using, and also change the very class style you play to something entirely different in order to do content.

Why not you ask, other MMO's force you too?

The answer is simple, this is TESO, and any TES fan knows that TES is NOT every other MMO. ZOS intentionally gave players the ability to make their classes into (Almost) anything they wanted, granted Nightblades for example will never heal as well as Templars and there is a class wall and restrictions there, but, they did give people the option to play their class effectively (within its role restrictions of course) in MANY MANY different ways.

Being force to play your class a certain way, with a certain armor, and weapon, in order to advance, is NOT what was intended. You should be able to do ALL content no matter what your build is.

Will some builds work better then others? Absolutely. Should it be impossible for anyone without this build to play the game effectively? Absolutely NOT.

This game is about enjoying playing your character with a decent challenge, NOT about being forced to play a way your don't want to.

3. TES is about Lore, RP, Character Development, Immersion, and Creativity, NOT about "If you don't spec this way and use this weapon and armor you can'rt do this content".

This is not Darksouls.

driosketch

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

Nerf it.

Word is you are nerfing Sorcerers, DK's and Templars soon. So you should nerf this as well or no group of 12 will be able to handle a mob of 3 mudcrabs.

People refuse to change the 5 abilities they put on their bar at level 5. People refuse to try crowd control. People refuse to group. People hit a challenge and immediately give up without even trying to adapt.

So sad.

But what is even more sad is that ZOS would betray their loyal customers who love the game to cater to this minority demographic (63% say DO NOT nerf it!) because what, they think they might pull in a few more subs?

It is summer vacation! Give it a chance guys, gods!

Most of the early abilities a level 5 has access to are CC though.

Also you mentioned in the video that bind on pick up was not in the game. I didn't realize till now that this was the case. It was certainly a thing during the beta.

SirAndy

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

PLEASE do not cave to people that refuse to even try to adapt beyond the same five abilities

You are completely missing the point.
This is not about the difficulty of the VR content at all.

It's about the fact that it is a lackluster grind fest to do the other faction zones from VR1 to VR10 that has always felt like a rushed, hacked together afterthought to add some "substance" to the end-game for launch.

I really hope they completely do away with the faction grind and come up with something much more appealing, with balanced difficulty, XP gain and rewards.
;-)

Phinix1

SirAndy wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

PLEASE do not cave to people that refuse to even try to adapt beyond the same five abilities

You are completely missing the point.
This is not about the difficulty of the VR content at all.

It's about the fact that it is a lackluster grind fest to do the other faction zones from VR1 to VR10 that has always felt like a rushed, hacked together afterthought to add some "substance" to the end-game for launch.

I really hope they completely do away with the faction grind and come up with something much more appealing, with balanced difficulty, XP gain and rewards.
;-)

I'm not missing the point, ZOS is missing the point. I agree they could do things (like the link in my sig about regional housing and AH factions) and vanity/BoP items to spice up veteran content a bit, which I immensely enjoy even as it is. I don't find it a grind at all, given that solo dungeons, dolmens, and world bosses now give between 50k and 80k XP EACH.

The problem is that is NOT what ZOS has announced they intend to do on monday. They have announced they think the problem is the few people complaining it is too hard to dodge or change abilities, and plan to blanketly nerf the difficulty of the entire veteran zones (2/3 of the game) making it as boring and 5-year-old faceroll easy as 1-50 was, so no one ends up ever bothering to learn their class or the game mechanics because it is made easy for them not to have to.

It is an absolutely horrifying decision that I almost wonder was made by someone who wants the game to fail.

Phinix1

Malpherian wrote: »

Alright, I am going to help you out as there is something you apparently do not understand about the gaming world (Like Most Elitist).

Why can't people make a point without feeling the need to insult people? Moving on...

Malpherian wrote: »

1. You are playing a single class, with a DPS cookie cutter build.

I am so tired of people parroting this on the internet without having a clue what they are talking about. There ARE no cookie cutter specs. You don't know what morphs I have, what my crowd control does, why it is OP. You just heard that on the internet and now use it to attack my arguement.

ANY class has the ability to slot a CC ability. ANY class has the ability to switch to ranged abilities for mobs that require it. The problem is, people would rather cry for nerfs and claim anyone that ENJOYS adapting and using the mechanics they were given is an "elitist" playing a "cookie cutter spec."

Just stop!

Malpherian wrote: »

2. Adapting as you call it, is not the same as being forced to re-spec your character entirely, change what weapons, and armor your using, and also change the very class style you play to something entirely different in order to do content.

No one said you had to. You don't. By level 50 you should have more than just your favorite weapon leveled up at least a little, unless you just have a mental block against it. If you put on a random weapon when you turn in a quest, that weapon gets the XP and so there's a way you can level them without actually using them.

I have dual wield, 2H, destro, and restro staff all leveled really high and bow as well though I never use it. As a mele character you SHOULD have leveled bow a bit. It is a STAMINA-BASED weapon that gives you CC and ranged options so you can adapt when you need it.

You can just carry it in your bag for those occasions. Simple. No one is asking you to put on a dress! Just to play the game the way it was designed!

Malpherian wrote: »

The answer is simple, this is TESO, and any TES fan knows that TES is NOT every other MMO. ZOS intentionally gave players the ability to make their classes into (Almost) anything they wanted, granted Nightblades for example will never heal as well as Templars and there is a class wall and restrictions there, but, they did give people the option to play their class effectively (within its role restrictions of course) in MANY MANY different ways.

EXACTLY! So, why WOULDN'T you want to level up some ranged and CC options, given you have them in your arsenal? When you refuse to do so, why would you complain about not being able to mele a troll?

It would be like encountering an enemy that was immune to fire damage and crying for a nerf because you "want to play your way" and hit them with only fire, when you have lightning, ice, mele, and bow sitting right there staring you in the face.

This is stubbornness on the part of players more than anything else, and they shouldn't ruin the fun and challenge of having to adapt and try different strategies for everyone else just because people refuse to change their slotted abilities.

Malpherian wrote: »

3. TES is about Lore, RP, Character Development, Immersion, and Creativity, NOT about "If you don't spec this way and use this weapon and armor you can'rt do this content".

It is not SUPPOSED to be anything. You said it yourself: play how you want. The problem is that people refuse to level alt weapons even when they were clearly designed as the ranged/CC option for melee/stamina classes, then complain things are too hard when they hit content that needs to be ranged/CC'd.

This is like saying the game is broken unless all mobs are tailored to your specific build coice, so you never have to change it.

What is so wrong with change?

People complain about Sorcerers, but they are NOT the problem. I just see a higher percent of Sorcerers that are willing to put some CC and defensive abilities on their bar. But ALL classes have access to them.

Alphashado

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

PLEASE do not cave to people that refuse to even try to adapt beyond the same five abilities

You are completely missing the point.
This is not about the difficulty of the VR content at all.

It's about the fact that it is a lackluster grind fest to do the other faction zones from VR1 to VR10 that has always felt like a rushed, hacked together afterthought to add some "substance" to the end-game for launch.

I really hope they completely do away with the faction grind and come up with something much more appealing, with balanced difficulty, XP gain and rewards.
;-)

I'm not missing the point, ZOS is missing the point. I agree they could do things (like the link in my sig about regional housing and AH factions) and vanity/BoP items to spice up veteran content a bit, which I immensely enjoy even as it is. I don't find it a grind at all, given that solo dungeons, dolmens, and world bosses now give between 50k and 80k XP EACH.

The problem is that is NOT what ZOS has announced they intend to do on monday. They have announced they think the problem is the few people complaining it is too hard to dodge or change abilities, and plan to blanketly nerf the difficulty of the entire veteran zones (2/3 of the game) making it as boring and 5-year-old faceroll easy as 1-50 was, so no one ends up ever bothering to learn their class or the game mechanics because it is made easy for them not to have to.

It is an absolutely horrifying decision that I almost wonder was made by someone who wants the game to fail.

Sorry, I stopped at "a few people complaining".

Not very many people are going to take you seriously with comments like that.

Phinix1

Alphashado wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

PLEASE do not cave to people that refuse to even try to adapt beyond the same five abilities

You are completely missing the point.
This is not about the difficulty of the VR content at all.

It's about the fact that it is a lackluster grind fest to do the other faction zones from VR1 to VR10 that has always felt like a rushed, hacked together afterthought to add some "substance" to the end-game for launch.

I really hope they completely do away with the faction grind and come up with something much more appealing, with balanced difficulty, XP gain and rewards.
;-)

I'm not missing the point, ZOS is missing the point. I agree they could do things (like the link in my sig about regional housing and AH factions) and vanity/BoP items to spice up veteran content a bit, which I immensely enjoy even as it is. I don't find it a grind at all, given that solo dungeons, dolmens, and world bosses now give between 50k and 80k XP EACH.

The problem is that is NOT what ZOS has announced they intend to do on monday. They have announced they think the problem is the few people complaining it is too hard to dodge or change abilities, and plan to blanketly nerf the difficulty of the entire veteran zones (2/3 of the game) making it as boring and 5-year-old faceroll easy as 1-50 was, so no one ends up ever bothering to learn their class or the game mechanics because it is made easy for them not to have to.

It is an absolutely horrifying decision that I almost wonder was made by someone who wants the game to fail.

Sorry, I stopped at "a few people complaining".

Not very many people are going to take you seriously with comments like that.

You're right, there are MANY people complaining that it is too hard to roll dodge, too hard to block, too hard to not stand in fire, too hard to level alternate weapons with ranged and crowd control abilities for situations that require it, too hard to ever change the same 5 abilities on their bar, too hard to make an arguement on the internet without being insulting and offensive about it...

Perhaps it is time to just throw in the towel and give up on MMO's altogether. Re-up my Netflix subscription, get back into Skyrim modding, re-mod Oblivion or something else for a while.

It really has come down to this: You want a fun, intelligent game that makes you think and adapt? Play a single player game.

You want a face-roll digital sedative to give you a troll-induced lobotomy? Play an MMO.

I expected more from ZOS. Hopefully they don't make the entire veteran content as stupid easy as 1-50.

Malpherian

@ Alien, Calling someone Elitist is not an insult, I'm an Elitest myself in many way's and your damn right i'll use his OP ROFLSTOMP build in the video for veteran content.

I was simply pointing out to him where his misunderstanding was coming from, as bluntly as possible, because you have to be blunt about core issues or people will not understand

"I think this way because: "

So you point it out to them, then they can self reflect and go..

"Your right I was not accounting for how other people might play the game because I personally don't understand why others wouldn't strive to play the best and be the best like me"

That being said,

I just happen to be a TES fan first and Foremost.

Dayv

"It's disgusting that they're making a broad-sweeping blanket nerf" - let's wait until Monday (or is it Tuesday for EU players like me). Maybe try it and see if you can adapt, MMOs change.