Do NOT nerf veteran content ZOS!

badmojo

born2beagator wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I like how the naysayers are focusing on discrediting the polls or saying that ZOS has more information about this, so we know nothing.

Try defending their decision if you feel like it is the right one.

Nobody is saying polls are the holy grail of anything, but with all the complaining on these forums and the poll still says it's fine, that says something. NOT everything, just something.

Because everyone that plays the game posts on the forums right? I seriously doubt ZOS is basing this on the forums, and I'd say this if the poll was slanted the other way.

Corew wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I like how the naysayers are focusing on discrediting the polls or saying that ZOS has more information about this, so we know nothing.

Try defending their decision if you feel like it is the right one.

Nobody is saying polls are the holy grail of anything, but with all the complaining on these forums and the poll still says it's fine, that says something. NOT everything, just something.

I doubt they make these decisions based on what's posted the forums, at least I hope they don't.

Like I said, try defending their decision if you think it's so right. Rather than just focusing on dismissing a poll.

The poll indicates what the responders feel. That is all. Just because everyone doesn't visit the forums and there are more sources for ZOS than just a poll, that doesn't make the information from that poll irrelevant.

If polls show a political candidate isn't doing well, does it matter how concise or all encompassing that poll was? What do you think would happen if the candidate tried to dismiss the poll, how do you think that would look to the people observing?

Point is, when you try to discredit a poll that isn't in your favor, people are just going to roll their eyes and ignore you.

Now, if you bring up valid points about why it doesn't matter what the poll says, because there is good reasons to ignore it, sure by all means, bring that up. But a poll being a poll isn't a good reason. Most of us know what polls on game forums, created by players are, you don't have to explain it to us.

It's like looking at a group protesting in front of city hall and then saying "Well there are WAY more people not protesting."

angel59

I am pretty sure they did not sit down on Wednesday, July 2 and, on a whim, decide to change it. I suspect they have thought it through quite clearly and have made a decision based on economics.

There are also more than the 2 choices you seem to think are available. There is a whole spectrum between the two and including the two. Nobody knows what is going to change. Maybe they will now allow your character to level alongside the leveling of the mobs, rather than just level increasing the mobs. Maybe healers will take more than .5 seconds to do a full heal. We just don't know. Most reactions in this forum are hyperbolic doomsday scenarios. Why not wait until Monday before laying a verdict down.

Stratti wrote: »

Honestly they haven't throughout this through properly

2 choices to help an unmotivated player base (that's what it is )

1 make it easier

2 make the reward higher

When you think it along those lines the answer is really obvious

Stratti

tengri wrote: »

People PAY to play a game for fun in a casual and relaxing way; and there are a lot more easy going people out there than those die hard hardcore L2P "professional" gamers.

And as of now VR5+ is all but casual player friendly.
Z is finally smart enough to listen to the vast majority of their customer base.
Oh and yeah, take this: *insert opposite of L2P here*!
Accept it or get out.

Wow you need to perhaps chill a little . Only thing I am saying is that all this talk of nerfing has spawned a blizzard of controversy . When you nerf a game you rip it's soul out you know you take the craft out of the game and the war is lesser because of it.

What we need is rewards that are much higher so that the good players (us) can be bothered to play with the bad players (...) and have fun together while we show off our awesome skills .

Tabbycat

Anyone that takes the time to pay attention to and read the Dev Tracker knows that Vet content isn't being nerfed as much as some folks on these forums would like you to believe.

badmojo

angel59 wrote: »

I am pretty sure they did not sit down on Wednesday, July 2 and, on a whim, decide to change it. I suspect they have thought it through quite clearly and have made a decision based on economics.

There are also more than the 2 choices you seem to think are available. There is a whole spectrum between the two and including the two. Nobody knows what is going to change. Maybe they will now allow your character to level alongside the leveling of the mobs, rather than just level increasing the mobs. Maybe healers will take more than .5 seconds to do a full heal. We just don't know. Most reactions in this forum are hyperbolic doomsday scenarios. Why not wait until Monday before laying a verdict down.

Stratti wrote: »

Honestly they haven't throughout this through properly

2 choices to help an unmotivated player base (that's what it is )

1 make it easier

2 make the reward higher

When you think it along those lines the answer is really obvious

Did you even read the thread they posted? It says pretty clearly that their goal is to make VR content more inline with 1-50. Basically removing the benefit to grouping and making it solo'able for every class/build. In other words, making it laughably easy unless you use gear 20 levels lower and wear a blindfold.

Our reactions are entirely based on their words.

born2beagator

Tabbycat wrote: »

Anyone that takes the time to pay attention to and read the Dev Tracker knows that Vet content isn't being nerfed as much as some folks on these forums would like you to believe.

They don't want to take the time. They just want to scream at ZOS and anyone that agrees with the choice

Blud

I watched about 2:30 of that video and got bored out of my mind. All I saw was a sorc running around harvesting and killing skeevers.

(a) sorc/destro staff

(b) not one other player in the zone, thus tons of resources to harvest

Why do you think the zone is so empty? Is this the kind of game world you want?

born2beagator

badmojo wrote: »

angel59 wrote: »

I am pretty sure they did not sit down on Wednesday, July 2 and, on a whim, decide to change it. I suspect they have thought it through quite clearly and have made a decision based on economics.

There are also more than the 2 choices you seem to think are available. There is a whole spectrum between the two and including the two. Nobody knows what is going to change. Maybe they will now allow your character to level alongside the leveling of the mobs, rather than just level increasing the mobs. Maybe healers will take more than .5 seconds to do a full heal. We just don't know. Most reactions in this forum are hyperbolic doomsday scenarios. Why not wait until Monday before laying a verdict down.

Stratti wrote: »

Honestly they haven't throughout this through properly

2 choices to help an unmotivated player base (that's what it is )

1 make it easier

2 make the reward higher

When you think it along those lines the answer is really obvious

Did you even read the thread they posted? It says pretty clearly that their goal is to make VR content more inline with 1-50. Basically removing the benefit to grouping and making it solo'able for every class/build. In other words, making it laughably easy unless you use gear 20 levels lower and wear a blindfold.

Our reactions are entirely based on their words.

No they aren't.

ZOS_JessicaFolsomZOS_JessicaFolsom admin
July 3 Staff Post
Denaia wrote: »
Thanks for the changes. I just wonder one thing

How hard will this nerfing be? I did not enjoy the difficulty of 1-50 much as it was way too easy for my liking, while vr 1-12 could certainly be a bit easier. But I wonder, will it be the same difficulty as 1-50 or will it be a middleground of what's its now? As I wonder if I will enjoy ploughing through vr 1-12 if it's extremely easy and I fall asleep playing.

Level 50+ and 50++ content will still be more difficult than normal level 50 content, but easier to solo than it is now. So, yes, a middle ground

So...where are you getting the ZOMG EASY MODE

tordr86b16_ESO

nerf it, i want to level alts.

badmojo

Tabbycat wrote: »

Anyone that takes the time to pay attention to and read the Dev Tracker knows that Vet content isn't being nerfed as much as some folks on these forums would like you to believe.

The funny thing, is I really wish you were right. I wish I was overreacting. I would LOVE to be wrong about what's going to happen on monday. But, sadly, their words were pretty clear and I'm scared I'm going to hate the changes.

tordr86b16_ESO

aliendiplomat... you are in the minority.

badmojo

Blud wrote: »

I watched about 2:30 of that video and got bored out of my mind. All I saw was a sorc running around harvesting and killing skeevers.

(a) sorc/destro staff

(b) not one other player in the zone, thus tons of resources to harvest

Why do you think the zone is so empty? Is this the kind of game world you want?

Perhaps you should have turned on your speakers, the rant the OP said while playing was the point of the video.

Tabbycat

badmojo wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Anyone that takes the time to pay attention to and read the Dev Tracker knows that Vet content isn't being nerfed as much as some folks on these forums would like you to believe.

The funny thing, is I really wish you were right. I wish I was overreacting. I would LOVE to be wrong about what's going to happen on monday. But, sadly, their words were pretty clear and I'm scared I'm going to hate the changes.

It's still going to be harder than 1-50. Just not as difficult as it is now.

Don't panic. The sky is not falling... yet.

born2beagator

badmojo wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Anyone that takes the time to pay attention to and read the Dev Tracker knows that Vet content isn't being nerfed as much as some folks on these forums would like you to believe.

The funny thing, is I really wish you were right. I wish I was overreacting. I would LOVE to be wrong about what's going to happen on monday. But, sadly, their words were pretty clear and I'm scared I'm going to hate the changes.

You are wrong

ZOS_JessicaFolsomZOS_JessicaFolsom admin


Level 50+ and 50++ content will still be more difficult than normal level 50 content, but easier to solo than it is now. So, yes, a middle ground

angel59

badmojo wrote: »

angel59 wrote: »

I am pretty sure they did not sit down on Wednesday, July 2 and, on a whim, decide to change it. I suspect they have thought it through quite clearly and have made a decision based on economics.

There are also more than the 2 choices you seem to think are available. There is a whole spectrum between the two and including the two. Nobody knows what is going to change. Maybe they will now allow your character to level alongside the leveling of the mobs, rather than just level increasing the mobs. Maybe healers will take more than .5 seconds to do a full heal. We just don't know. Most reactions in this forum are hyperbolic doomsday scenarios. Why not wait until Monday before laying a verdict down.

Stratti wrote: »

Honestly they haven't throughout this through properly

2 choices to help an unmotivated player base (that's what it is )

1 make it easier

2 make the reward higher

When you think it along those lines the answer is really obvious

Did you even read the thread they posted? It says pretty clearly that their goal is to make VR content more inline with 1-50. Basically removing the benefit to grouping and making it solo'able for every class/build. In other words, making it laughably easy unless you use gear 20 levels lower and wear a blindfold.

Our reactions are entirely based on their words.

The reactions are based on each individuals interpretation of the bolded line. What does this mean? It does not say that V1-V10 are going to have mobs leveled at 50 only. It does not say that they nerfed the whole vet zone, every mob, every boss, every dolman, etc. They are going to make it more solo friendly. So what does that mean? Nobody, except the developers, will know until Monday. In the meantime we can all work up an anxiety sweat over how they have ruined my game. I am sorry, but there is no explicit announcement of exactly what they are doing.

badmojo

born2beagator wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

angel59 wrote: »

I am pretty sure they did not sit down on Wednesday, July 2 and, on a whim, decide to change it. I suspect they have thought it through quite clearly and have made a decision based on economics.

There are also more than the 2 choices you seem to think are available. There is a whole spectrum between the two and including the two. Nobody knows what is going to change. Maybe they will now allow your character to level alongside the leveling of the mobs, rather than just level increasing the mobs. Maybe healers will take more than .5 seconds to do a full heal. We just don't know. Most reactions in this forum are hyperbolic doomsday scenarios. Why not wait until Monday before laying a verdict down.

Stratti wrote: »

Honestly they haven't throughout this through properly

2 choices to help an unmotivated player base (that's what it is )

1 make it easier

2 make the reward higher

When you think it along those lines the answer is really obvious

Did you even read the thread they posted? It says pretty clearly that their goal is to make VR content more inline with 1-50. Basically removing the benefit to grouping and making it solo'able for every class/build. In other words, making it laughably easy unless you use gear 20 levels lower and wear a blindfold.

Our reactions are entirely based on their words.

No they aren't.

ZOS_JessicaFolsomZOS_JessicaFolsom admin
July 3 Staff Post
Denaia wrote: »
Thanks for the changes. I just wonder one thing

How hard will this nerfing be? I did not enjoy the difficulty of 1-50 much as it was way too easy for my liking, while vr 1-12 could certainly be a bit easier. But I wonder, will it be the same difficulty as 1-50 or will it be a middleground of what's its now? As I wonder if I will enjoy ploughing through vr 1-12 if it's extremely easy and I fall asleep playing.

Level 50+ and 50++ content will still be more difficult than normal level 50 content, but easier to solo than it is now. So, yes, a middle ground

So...where are you getting the ZOMG EASY MODE

Pfft, yeah, whatever. That's like saying level 10-15 is harder than 1-5.

The part about being "easier to solo than it is now" is what has most of us angry.

born2beagator

and slightly after said bolded line Jessica told us its going to be a middle ground. But the ranters are conveniently ignoring that

Mordria

I'm taking the wait and see approach.

tengri

Stratti wrote: »

What we need is rewards that are much higher so that the good players (us) can be bothered to play with the bad players (...) and have fun together while we show off our awesome skills .

No one would miss that small minority of self-proclaimed "good" players in the least.
Maybe we are lucky and they now all consider themselves to be "too good" to continue playing TESO... one can always dream...

hamon

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

You posted a vid of a cookie-cutter build with 55% crit chance.


Amazing.


Now lose both the crit chance and crit healing surge lolmorph and do the same content.



My point? Nerf or no nerf, you will face-roll the content because of your lolbuild that no matter how much rhetorical strawmans you muster, ZOS' telemetry shows that the majority players do not min-max. Thus, the game will be balanced accordingly. And thus, is the best decision to ensure everyone enjoys the game.

Oh stop. I intentionally did NOT use the cookie cutter AOE destruction staff ability. I intentionally did NOT use pets. I intentionally did NOT use Volcanic Rune which ANY class has access to.

I swear, if you play a Sorcerer with ANY spec, people assume you must be able to just stand there in red zones not block or roll dodge and face roll stuff.

but you were using the crit surge build which is the most OP sorc build (if not the most op build in the entire game)

Why? Do you even know what critical surge does or are you just parroting what you heard on the internet?

It is NOT central to this build. I could easily drop it for Mutagen or Illustrious Healing or just use my ward spell.

All it basically does is passively heal you for 65% of your crit damage while boosting WEAPON attacks a little. Notice I am not getting hit? Critical Surge = NOT the reason.

Why do people REFUSE to use CC abilities then immediately cry for nerfs?

Here, I will make a video of me solo'ing a veteran 8 world boss without critical surge.

Why do you discriminate against an entire class like this?

Why can't you simply accept that if you dodge, block, stay out of red zones, and are willing to change your ability bar once in a while, veteran content is NOT hard?

ok i,ll wait for you to solo the tharn storm atronach in vet 8 grahtwood. make the video then we can talk. soling any mob that you can kite endelessly from ranged is easy hell i could do some nasty fights without getting hit using my bow on my templar.. but then again other fights would tear me a new one... you think we,re all so dumb we couldnt cherry pick a fight our build can do easily and come telling everyone to L2P ?

born2beagator

badmojo wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

angel59 wrote: »

I am pretty sure they did not sit down on Wednesday, July 2 and, on a whim, decide to change it. I suspect they have thought it through quite clearly and have made a decision based on economics.

There are also more than the 2 choices you seem to think are available. There is a whole spectrum between the two and including the two. Nobody knows what is going to change. Maybe they will now allow your character to level alongside the leveling of the mobs, rather than just level increasing the mobs. Maybe healers will take more than .5 seconds to do a full heal. We just don't know. Most reactions in this forum are hyperbolic doomsday scenarios. Why not wait until Monday before laying a verdict down.

Stratti wrote: »

Honestly they haven't throughout this through properly

2 choices to help an unmotivated player base (that's what it is )

1 make it easier

2 make the reward higher

When you think it along those lines the answer is really obvious

Did you even read the thread they posted? It says pretty clearly that their goal is to make VR content more inline with 1-50. Basically removing the benefit to grouping and making it solo'able for every class/build. In other words, making it laughably easy unless you use gear 20 levels lower and wear a blindfold.

Our reactions are entirely based on their words.

No they aren't.

ZOS_JessicaFolsomZOS_JessicaFolsom admin
July 3 Staff Post
Denaia wrote: »
Thanks for the changes. I just wonder one thing

How hard will this nerfing be? I did not enjoy the difficulty of 1-50 much as it was way too easy for my liking, while vr 1-12 could certainly be a bit easier. But I wonder, will it be the same difficulty as 1-50 or will it be a middleground of what's its now? As I wonder if I will enjoy ploughing through vr 1-12 if it's extremely easy and I fall asleep playing.

Level 50+ and 50++ content will still be more difficult than normal level 50 content, but easier to solo than it is now. So, yes, a middle ground

So...where are you getting the ZOMG EASY MODE

Pfft, yeah, whatever. That's like saying level 10-15 is harder than 1-5.

The part about being "easier to solo than it is now" is what has most of us angry.

whatever, you want to cry, cry. Its not going to change anything

tordr86b16_ESO

I also find it incredibly funny how the entire community is overreacting to one post ZOS made about making VR leveling easier, shouting easy mode and what not. The fact is, we don't know squat about how much they are going to nerf it so calm the bats down.

born2beagator

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

I also find it incredibly funny how the entire community is overreacting to one post ZOS made about making VR leveling easier, shouting easy mode and what not. The fact is, we don't know squat about how much they are going to nerf it is calm the bats down.

and ignoring or waving off the part in that same post that said it would be a middle ground.

when people want to complain, they will find a way

Alphashado

born2beagator wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

angel59 wrote: »

I am pretty sure they did not sit down on Wednesday, July 2 and, on a whim, decide to change it. I suspect they have thought it through quite clearly and have made a decision based on economics.

There are also more than the 2 choices you seem to think are available. There is a whole spectrum between the two and including the two. Nobody knows what is going to change. Maybe they will now allow your character to level alongside the leveling of the mobs, rather than just level increasing the mobs. Maybe healers will take more than .5 seconds to do a full heal. We just don't know. Most reactions in this forum are hyperbolic doomsday scenarios. Why not wait until Monday before laying a verdict down.

Stratti wrote: »

Honestly they haven't throughout this through properly

2 choices to help an unmotivated player base (that's what it is )

1 make it easier

2 make the reward higher

When you think it along those lines the answer is really obvious

Did you even read the thread they posted? It says pretty clearly that their goal is to make VR content more inline with 1-50. Basically removing the benefit to grouping and making it solo'able for every class/build. In other words, making it laughably easy unless you use gear 20 levels lower and wear a blindfold.

Our reactions are entirely based on their words.

No they aren't.

ZOS_JessicaFolsomZOS_JessicaFolsom admin
July 3 Staff Post
Denaia wrote: »
Thanks for the changes. I just wonder one thing

How hard will this nerfing be? I did not enjoy the difficulty of 1-50 much as it was way too easy for my liking, while vr 1-12 could certainly be a bit easier. But I wonder, will it be the same difficulty as 1-50 or will it be a middleground of what's its now? As I wonder if I will enjoy ploughing through vr 1-12 if it's extremely easy and I fall asleep playing.

Level 50+ and 50++ content will still be more difficult than normal level 50 content, but easier to solo than it is now. So, yes, a middle ground

So...where are you getting the ZOMG EASY MODE

Thank you for posting that. Most of the people freaking out are the same folks that have been saying "L2P or leave". Knee jerk reactions based on borderline panic driven assumptions. Again, thank you. Hopefully this change will pump some life back into the upper VR zones. Sounds like a true compromise to me. Time will tell.

badmojo

Whats your point guys? That we should remain silent until the changes have ruined our game? We shouldn't voice our opinions of their announcement?

I'll admit the OP in the video got a bit angry about it and fears the worst, but even he said he's waiting for monday. We're all waiting to monday to actually dislike the changes. But, we're still going to voice our fears caused by their announcement.

You know if they announced they were ramping up 1-50 to be more inline with VR content, people would be voicing their concerns.

I would argue that this is the best time for us to voice our concerns about this change. There is no better time than now for them to reconsider their course of action. Once things are changed and live, it's harder for them to go back on their word. There is more backlash at that point.

It's specifically because they were vague in their explanation that we're even here bothering. If they layed it all out and left nothing to the imagination, this wouldn't be a "Do not" thread, it would be a "why I'm quitting" or "ZOS screwed up" or something more exact.

You guys can stick your heads in the sand and ignore the situation if you want to, but please stop trying to convince us to do that.

born2beagator

badmojo wrote: »

Whats your point guys? That we should remain silent until the changes have ruined our game? We shouldn't voice our opinions of their announcement?

I'll admit the OP in the video got a bit angry about it and fears the worst, but even he said he's waiting for monday. We're all waiting to monday to actually dislike the changes. But, we're still going to voice our fears caused by their announcement.

You know if they announced they were ramping up 1-50 to be more inline with VR content, people would be voicing their concerns.

I would argue that this is the best time for us to voice our concerns about this change. There is no better time than now for them to reconsider their course of action. Once things are changed and live, it's harder for them to go back on their word. There is more backlash at that point.

It's specifically because they were vague in their explanation that we're even here bothering. If they layed it all out and left nothing to the imagination, this wouldn't be a "Do not" thread, it would be a "why I'm quitting" or "ZOS screwed up" or something more exact.

You guys can stick your heads in the sand and ignore the situation if you want to, but please stop trying to convince us to do that.

You are sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the part that said it would be a middle ground.

If you really think that screaming and stamping your foot like a little child that just had a toy taken away will get them to change their minds, be my guest.

Honestly its quite entertaining

tordr86b16_ESO

badmojo wrote: »

Whats your point guys? That we should remain silent until the changes have ruined our game? We shouldn't voice our opinions of their announcement?

I'll admit the OP in the video got a bit angry about it and fears the worst, but even he said he's waiting for monday. We're all waiting to monday to actually dislike the changes. But, we're still going to voice our fears caused by their announcement.

You know if they announced they were ramping up 1-50 to be more inline with VR content, people would be voicing their concerns.

I would argue that this is the best time for us to voice our concerns about this change. There is no better time than now for them to reconsider their course of action. Once things are changed and live, it's harder for them to go back on their word. There is more backlash at that point.

It's specifically because they were vague in their explanation that we're even here bothering. If they layed it all out and left nothing to the imagination, this wouldn't be a "Do not" thread, it would be a "why I'm quitting" or "ZOS screwed up" or something more exact.

You guys can stick your heads in the sand and ignore the situation if you want to, but please stop trying to convince us to do that.

Voicing your concerns on a change you have yet to play is premature.

Tabbycat

I honestly think you all should wait until after Monday's patch and have actually had a chance to play the content before deciding if it's a bad thing.

Phinix1

Lord_Hev wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

You posted a vid of a cookie-cutter build with 55% crit chance.


Amazing.


Now lose both the crit chance and crit healing surge lolmorph and do the same content.



My point? Nerf or no nerf, you will face-roll the content because of your lolbuild that no matter how much rhetorical strawmans you muster, ZOS' telemetry shows that the majority players do not min-max. Thus, the game will be balanced accordingly. And thus, is the best decision to ensure everyone enjoys the game.

Oh stop. I intentionally did NOT use the cookie cutter AOE destruction staff ability. I intentionally did NOT use pets. I intentionally did NOT use Volcanic Rune which ANY class has access to.

I swear, if you play a Sorcerer with ANY spec, people assume you must be able to just stand there in red zones not block or roll dodge and face roll stuff.

I play a Sorc. I use AOE. I even abuse Volcanic rune. I block, I even stay out of red stuff.


I still have to fight for my life against three covenant trash infantry no-life irrelevant nobodies whom are less important than the dung Dreughs build their statues out of.

I even have all my gear and staff on purple. Hell, my second bar is a lolresto staff with mutagen. But my short-comings? I dont have lolcrit like you do. Nor do I have that lolcritsurgeheallololtrollinglol self-heal. I have the other surge morph. how dare my stupidity. If only I threw away my tastes, sucked up, went with the lolcrithealsurge morph and then found someone to craft me crit bonus sets with divines on each armor piece. Then yeah, I'd probably solo Craglorn trials.

No one was insulting your choices bro. Why do you have to insult mine to make your point? It isn't a "lol" build, why would you say that?

Besides, this isn't the only spec I use. I was intentionally rolling dangerous to make a point that roll dodging and block are the most important thing.

This is the main spec I use for AOE and dolmens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viYOhbsMsNo

tordr86b16_ESO

You're playing one of the best classes in the game and telling everyone that the game is fine as it is. That is what people are reacting too.