Veteran System Changes Preview

nagarjunna

Please don't make it too easy... I have not found it too difficult to play Vet content! A smoother scale from V1 to V10, yes! Easier? Not so much. I pretty much solo everything by the way.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

While I have no issues with the VR telegraphs dealing high damage, I do think ennemies auto-attacks shouldn't be as strong as they are right now. Some ennemies especialy like Trolls, Gargoyles and Storm Atronauchs can actualy get you from 100% to 0% in about 5sec at higher VR lvls because of their very fast damaging auto-attacks, making melee very impractical against those encounters (especialy when immune to all CCs).

I think the best way to tone down VR lvls a bit would be to nerf slightly the auto-attacks dmg done by ennemies (except the 3 ennemies above wich need a complete overhaul) and add more combat mechanics, like you are already doing, that would actualy help them sustain AoE burst.

Also Menders need a particular fix, their mending ability heals instantly and can actualy heal about 30% of their target health on that first instant tic. I don't think toning down their healing ability would be a fix, but it would be nice if there would actualy be a 1sec delay before the targets actualy gets healed. Giving the player a better preparation time for a counter.

I think VR content is not too hard overall, just some very localised encounters feel cheap and I believe those are the one wich should be adressed by the devs.

Kiwi

all it was is the people who rushed or played 10 hours a day post launch, like me at first, were basically an endangered species in the v5+ areas because a lot of the major playerbase were still in 1-v4 regions.

in v8-11 areas i could go for a long time without actually seeing anyone, anywhere but i took a week and some off the game due to the steam summer <stabsurwallet%gankurssd_space>
fiasco but logging in now i see people around and its only going to increase as time goes on

if they nerf it too hard eventually it will have to be dialled up again to compensate for a vast population increase

Redlag

Arora wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Are there any plans to change the amount of veteran experience needed to level? This really needs to come down quite a bit if the veterans are going to be as easy a 1-50. Talk about boredom.

NO No, you should not be handed these levels like they are cake, I will quit if this change is made, everyone one will be vr 12 its not productive to the game

Plague to the genre. Everyone with the exact opposite opinion of yours left the game already or are planning on it after their game time is up. Im only here in ESO because Matt Frior was involved. I want to see this game focused on for what I bought it for and it was advertised about... ALLIANCE VERSUS ALLIANCE.

Pumping PvE dungeons into the game will not turn it around. Appeasing hardcore grindy types that want a challenge in PvE will not turn this game around.

VR should have been tied to the AvA system in the first place. Not PvE. It was a fast decision to appear as end game content. There isn't any. Their rash decision even killed their own replay value of the game (doing other alliance content).

PvE players have WoW.. LoL is free and has so many playing just running into PvP over and over. The market is right. Just ignore the PvE fanatics.. They want WoW vanilla.. Focus on PvP..

jovial

I just wish ZOS would take all the feedback into account, find their spine, change this decision, and get back on track to offer us an alternative to games like WoW. Give us a MMO with some challenge left in it.

But if they do this it will just be step one.

1. New players become acclimated to the new difficulty.
2. They'll enter veteran dungeons and complain they are too hard (even though they are just right now, not too hard for a properly leveled group, not too easy) and too steep an increase from other veteran content. You will accommodate them.
3. They'll complain about trials, and how a random group can't do it easily. You will accommodate them.
4. There is no 4, at that point the game will have turned into utter *** and probably gone F2P as well.

Phinix1

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

While I have no issues with the VR telegraphs dealing high damage, I do think ennemies auto-attacks shouldn't be as strong as they are right now. Some ennemies especialy like Trolls, Gargoyles and Storm Atronauchs can actualy get you from 100% to 0% in about 5sec at higher VR lvls because of their very fast damaging auto-attacks, making melee very impractical against those encounters (especialy when immune to all CCs).

I think the best way to tone down VR lvls a bit would be to nerf slightly the auto-attacks dmg done by ennemies (except the 3 ennemies above wich need a complete overhaul) and add more combat mechanics, like you are already doing, that would actualy help them sustain AoE burst.

Also Menders need a particular fix, their mending ability heals instantly and can actualy heal about 30% of their target health on that first instant tic. I don't think toning down their healing ability would be a fix, but it would be nice if there would actualy be a 1sec delay before the targets actualy gets healed. Giving the player a better preparation time for a counter.

I think VR content is not too hard overall, just some very localised encounters feel cheap and I believe those are the one wich should be adressed by the devs.

You know what really makes me sad? ALL of the things you mention are within the PLAYER'S ability to adapt to. Yet people are crying for nerfs without even bothering to TRY and adapt?

Trolls ARE CC'able. ALL classes have access to CC. So, CC THEM! ALL classes have access to ranged abilities. Try swapping to them! It isn't some cardinal sin to use some different abilities in the mix for different content.

Gargoyles and Atronachs are SUPPOSED to be hard. People cry about Sorcerers being OP, can you imagine an all cloth character facing them without being able to CC? It hurts us just as much. Some things SHOULD require a group unless they are main quest or instanced solo quest content.

ALL players have the ability to bash healers and exploit them with a heavy attack to stun them long enough to kill them. Additionally all classes have access to abilities that interrupt.

EDIT: For sanity.

Redlag

jovial wrote: »

I just wish ZOS would take all the feedback into account, find their spine, change this decision, and get back on track to offer us an alternative to games like WoW. Give us a MMO with some challenge left in it.

But if they do this it will just be step one.

1. New players become acclimated to the new difficulty.
2. They'll enter veteran dungeons and complain they are too hard (even though they are just right now, not too hard for a properly leveled group, not too easy) and too steep an increase from other veteran content. You will accommodate them.
3. They'll complain about trials, and how a random group can't do it easily. You will accommodate them.
4. There is no 4, at that point the game will have turned into utter *** and probably gone F2P as well.

I feel the same way as you. I wish Zos would get a spine. Also the exact opposite. Players like you left WoW for getting easy. It got easier because they realized they are catering to a few at the expense of the rest. "A challenge left in it". This game is new. You're referring to WoW losing it's challenge.

1. New players left. This game is barely released and everyone is leaving.
2. Players pay for their monthly fees solo. I don't want to be forced to group with people of your opinion in order to reach a competitive level for PvP. I want to avoid you like the plague.
3. We'll complain that getting to PvP content on a competitive level in competitive gear is huge time sink.
4. This game is heading that way with their nerfs to loot drops, solo dungeon drops, buggy character timing, VR steroid patch.. Not vice-versa. This game was advertised as AvA and they are leaving it to die in horrid FPS and cranking the PvE levels up of NPCs in Cyrodiil.

So I wish they would get a spine too and say this isn't WoW. This is a game advertised on AvA. Not grinding until you burning out.

Mescalamba

Just dont nerf it too much.

This game really needs challenge.

Xsorus

Stratti wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

One of the topics we frequently get feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.

Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.

We recognize that many of you love the game you played while leveling up, and that you feel the post-50 zones are too much of a departure from that experience. We hear your requests to continue participating in solo content as you progress through Veteran Ranks, and we’re acting on that feedback.

Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System. We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50. Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily. This is just the first of many large-scale changes coming to ESO’s Veteran System, and we encourage you to watch our QuakeCon panel on Friday, July 17th, where we’ll go into much more detail about the other parts.

Thank you for sticking with us, sharing your concerns, and supporting a game we all love.

Disgraceful . Weak. Pathetic . Gutless

You can delete these posts but that is my description of your decision to do this. I loved that you made it difficult and you forget that the largest demographic playing games isn't kids and their consoles but 30+ . You will ruin this game beyond compare . Just like WoW did

Childish. Crybaby. Whiner.

You can guess who i'm referring to

Anastasia

DigitalHype wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Slippery slope. If you keep making it easier if someone complains then the logical conclusion of that is you end up with no one complaining but no challenge at all left in the game. This doesn't sound too bad and I hope it really is 'middle ground' but please don't carry on down this path till we have difficulty scaled to the least capable players.

The same argument can be made for not setting difficulties to meet the demands of the "most efficient" character builds.

---

Except DigitalHype, if what you say is true - that was done in the original design...that was PLANNED.

Grouping in endgame Vet content WAS what Zeni intended to do. Why did those who primarily desire to solo all the way through the game buy this game and sub in the first place? Its so difficult for me to understand. I make my purchase decisions, usually, based upon some sort of criterion, often with my desires as the framework. When it comes to recreational pursuits, don't most people?

Buying something that is not your cup of tea (and which was clearly described and promo'd that endgame content would be tougher, would be most successful if/when grouped up...why buy it, and then come in and DEMAND it be changed to fit your desires??

Bizarrely it worked though. Demanding a 360 degree change to the original vision as stated for example in Jessica's informational update today - in the part where she noted that ZOS had not been trying to force grouping, but rather to encourage it.

In this bizarre turn of events the company is now going to nerf the difficulty instead of any of a number of other reasonable, fun or exciting options which would raise the viability of soloing - you know, by adding new content.

Here's hoping the changes to make V+ content 'easier' will be handled with kid gloves and instituted gradually with measure ^-^.

j.j.jarvisb14_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom admin wrote:

Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily.

Thats Great News,

• I'll reSub, I had 4 days left, and had already cancelled.
• Didn't like being forced to group &or PvP, to go from Vet1-12

Anastasia

joeparadis_ESO wrote: »

"...The problem isn't encouraging people to group. You just actually have to clue the player in to do that...

o-0 After how many booty-whompings did people who weren't given a blinking center-screen text box stating: "Now and in this area, it might be a really great idea to seek out other human players and create groups to face this content"

....when did these players start to guess that maybe TESO was sending them a message with the level of difficulty and just perhaps the situations might go a little bit more successfully IF THEY GROUPED UP... ????? It obviously dawned on them eventually, thus the call for easier content which would provide more soloability...

quakedawg_ESO

Same people who do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

cracker81

I love ESO and I hope they keep the difficulty. I invested a lot for this game. I looked around for the next mmo in 2013 it was either legacy of kain(seemed like they just through it together) and of course ESO. Why because of the stories then of course I did research and ESO was it. Now I am waiting on what they will do in VR/jail system/emperor palace. I see myself playing it a long time as I did in WoW(9 1/2years). Thank god this is not wow fight system is better by far. I did it all in WoW as hand of adaal, champion of naaru, a lot more raid titles as well as duelist and that time has past. Now I am wait for my desktop to be fixed or I would not be in forums. The only time I come here a) PC problem or b) server is down that is all. I wish I was playing right now.

Delte

So after all the moaning from so called fans of the game about the lack of group content to play with their friends in guilds they are now going to make the group content easier so they can solo it.

The veteran ranks are not a leveling experience they are there just as a icing on the cake, the leveling experience is ended when a player hits level 50/ After that you just increase the softcap on stats and skill points.

I wonder how long it will be before those asking for easier content in the veteran ranks will be latter on whinging about it being all solo content in a MMO. This is what happens when devs cave in and listen to the players.

isengrimb16_ESO

Delte wrote: »

So after all the moaning from so called fans of the game about the lack of group content to play with their friends in guilds they are now going to make the group content easier so they can solo it.

The veteran ranks are not a leveling experience they are there just as a icing on the cake, the leveling experience is ended when a player hits level 50/ After that you just increase the softcap on stats and skill points.

I wonder how long it will be before those asking for easier content in the veteran ranks will be latter on whinging about it being all solo content in a MMO. This is what happens when devs cave in and listen to the players.

Well, up until now TES has been a single-player game - I think when fans said they wanted multiplayer TES, they just wanted the _option_ to run with a friend or two once in a while, and not necessarily be forced/expected to group up for regular quests. And really, that's a bad idea to require grouping for leveling - once you don't have many people leveling up an alt, or whatnot, and the zone is kind of dead, you're hooped. Dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, etc, yes, natural group content, and not necessarily required to play the rest of the game - and there'll always be max level folks to group up with.

cracker81

Delte wrote: »

So after all the moaning from so called fans of the game about the lack of group content to play with their friends in guilds they are now going to make the group content easier so they can solo it.

The veteran ranks are not a leveling experience they are there just as a icing on the cake, the leveling experience is ended when a player hits level 50/ After that you just increase the softcap on stats and skill points.

I wonder how long it will be before those asking for easier content in the veteran ranks will be latter on whinging about it being all solo content in a MMO. This is what happens when devs cave in and listen to the players.

What happens is ppl playing the game will be like wtf why is it face rolling. Then you get them on forums.

Phinix1

Delte wrote: »

So after all the moaning from so called fans of the game about the lack of group content to play with their friends in guilds they are now going to make the group content easier so they can solo it.

The veteran ranks are not a leveling experience they are there just as a icing on the cake, the leveling experience is ended when a player hits level 50/ After that you just increase the softcap on stats and skill points.

I wonder how long it will be before those asking for easier content in the veteran ranks will be latter on whinging about it being all solo content in a MMO. This is what happens when devs cave in and listen to the players.

Yep. Sad they couldn't stick to their guns on this one.

If I were a rival game company like Wildstar, I would pay people to come onto the forums and even buy copies of the competition's game, just so I could bombard the CS and community with negativity and complaints and much like the Facebook study on contagious emotions, create a false panic that results in knee-jerk reacting to mob-think that ends up destroying the game.

Or at least convinces enough players it is the "cool thing" to complain about content and/or quit so that they drag a good percent of them over to their release as an impulse buy tactic.

Well played Wildstar, well played.

stevepdodson_ESO888

I just wanted to add that although I think the vet levels are waaaaaayyyy too hard to solo, it actually did make me buddy up with a fellow vet from our Guild (Scary Peanuts) and we have been working our way through Cadwell's Silver/Gold in the way you wanted.

So in that respect your idea worked...but not everyone has others they can rely on to be online with at the same time.

letalmetal33

jonpaul wrote: »

Good to hear, I am very interested now as to what will be changed.

Agreed,that's the way!


Waiting for UE servers too.

forthewinn2

Personally I think veteran content is fine the way it is, so I decided to take off my armor and interview some veteran mobs, here a V10 Troll shares his thoughts on the upcoming nerfs.
Needless to say he's pretty upset.........

I felt that slap through the screen, my face , my poor face .

jovial

Redlag wrote: »

jovial wrote: »

I just wish ZOS would take all the feedback into account, find their spine, change this decision, and get back on track to offer us an alternative to games like WoW. Give us a MMO with some challenge left in it.

But if they do this it will just be step one.

1. New players become acclimated to the new difficulty.
2. They'll enter veteran dungeons and complain they are too hard (even though they are just right now, not too hard for a properly leveled group, not too easy) and too steep an increase from other veteran content. You will accommodate them.
3. They'll complain about trials, and how a random group can't do it easily. You will accommodate them.
4. There is no 4, at that point the game will have turned into utter *** and probably gone F2P as well.

I feel the same way as you. I wish Zos would get a spine. Also the exact opposite. Players like you left WoW for getting easy. It got easier because they realized they are catering to a few at the expense of the rest. "A challenge left in it". This game is new. You're referring to WoW losing it's challenge.

1. New players left. This game is barely released and everyone is leaving.
2. Players pay for their monthly fees solo. I don't want to be forced to group with people of your opinion in order to reach a competitive level for PvP. I want to avoid you like the plague.
3. We'll complain that getting to PvP content on a competitive level in competitive gear is huge time sink.
4. This game is heading that way with their nerfs to loot drops, solo dungeon drops, buggy character timing, VR steroid patch.. Not vice-versa. This game was advertised as AvA and they are leaving it to die in horrid FPS and cranking the PvE levels up of NPCs in Cyrodiil.

So I wish they would get a spine too and say this isn't WoW. This is a game advertised on AvA. Not grinding until you burning out.

Lets not exaggerate. Everyone isn't leaving. People (presumably) complain because they love this game. I love this game.

Competitive level for PvP can be reached without issue. Get to VR12, which even before Craglorn wasn't very hard. Ask a guild crafter to craft your preferred set. No guild? Welcome to MMORPG's, if you want to play solo play something else, or craft the sets yourself.

Apart from that I will agree with you that their priorities are lacking. I don't think the game should be only about AvA, but it is a huge part of the endgame and appeal. That the FPS issue in Cyrodiil (and to some extent Trials) was allowed to find its way to the live server and remain unfixed for a week is atrocious. Not to mention leaving EU servers in NA for over three months.

Reymas

VR12 Nightblade here, solo'd all the way to VR10 then grinded Craglorn to VR12.

VR content already does not require grouping, except for Anchors and open group dungeons.

How do people believe VR content is hard? Sure it can seem like a grind because of how much VR XP is required to level so the people aren't getting their breadcrumbs nearly as frequently, but...idk, I had fun and it was -not- hard.

I wish they would not make it easier.

AyRe_Dominance

You've gotta to be kidding me hahahahaha you are trying to change the difficulty that was the only thing that was actually fun with the vet content.So you basically want a cake walk through vet levels Great job.When all the people who cried about the difficulty jump ship to the next new shiny thing that gets advertised ill be laughing on the side lines

lex.derioneb17_ESO

This is so disheartening to hear... I only recently hit veteran content and so far it is the best part of the game. Stealth is finally useful, dolmens are finally an enjoyable experience not a 3 second slaughterfest, I actually need to think how to improve my character, not just use whatever gear which is 20 levels below my level. If they nerf it too hard i don't think I would stand going through such poorly paced content with the best part of it - it's difficulty taken away

andrantos

I haven't reached VR yet so I don't feel like I can comment. So disregard but I can't help feel a bit confused. I have been dreading reaching VR not because of the difficulty but because VR content revolved solely around mostly quest-based content and Craglorn. The biggest concern that in order to be competitive in PVP, you would have to grind all the way up to maximum VR.

I understand more information is to be revealed later this month and look forward to seeing what is in store.

I do want to point out that VR was pitched as mostly a form of horizontal progression (though with a tad bit of vertical progression). However, it seems that has not been the case.

I would also like to point out that being this is an Elder Scrolls game, I would like to see the game open up quite a bit in the end-game. I think if you can create a variety of solo, group, and competitive content and have it all contribute to any number of meaningful progression systems.... I think you'd be golden.

AreoHotah

leave the difficulty as it is. it's perfect. but merge the vet zones with other faction and make world pvp

you only make it easier but still boring.

Soloeus

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

One of the topics we frequently get feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.

Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.

We recognize that many of you love the game you played while leveling up, and that you feel the post-50 zones are too much of a departure from that experience. We hear your requests to continue participating in solo content as you progress through Veteran Ranks, and we’re acting on that feedback.

Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System. We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50. Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily. This is just the first of many large-scale changes coming to ESO’s Veteran System, and we encourage you to watch our QuakeCon panel on Friday, July 17th, where we’ll go into much more detail about the other parts.

Thank you for sticking with us, sharing your concerns, and supporting a game we all love.

Amazing and bravo!

zmanu

It's not about the difficulty, it's about vet content being so very, very class and build dependent.
It was a challenge taking my templar to vr10, at first i even enjoyed it.
Then i took my dk to vr10 and it was a complete faceroll, Even at vr8 I still cleared the mobs 1 room at a time, public- or solo dungeon, it didn't matter, everything died in my path.
Well, when the mobs have a armour penetration rating of circa 95% it doesn't even matter what you're wearing, everybody saying that they had to mind what they were wearing are just kidding themselves.

I still would've preferred that they would have buffed my templar to be of equal strength of that of my sorcerer and my dragon knight, and of course all the weapon skill trees, namely the stamina ones.

But I guess this is easier than balancing classes, and way faster.

But don't mind me, I'm only here while I wait for them to elevate the pvp performance to the standards we got accustomed to in the beta.

yelloweyedemon

Arora wrote: »

congratulations whinners, now vet will not be an achievement but a hand me like all the other levels. Now, everyone will be VR 12 and end game content will come to fast.
Either that or it will take longer, they will make them weaker and drop the experience, I am unsure which route it will go

V12 stopped being an achievement when they allowed any player above lvl 50 to enter Craglorn.

Syntse wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Disgraceful . Weak. Pathetic . Gutless

You can delete these posts but that is my description of your decision to do this. I loved that you made it difficult and you forget that the largest demographic playing games isn't kids and their consoles but 30+ . You will ruin this game beyond compare . Just like WoW did

I'm 36 and do I want all my gaming to be challenging?... no. I get off from work tired of stuff, do I want to use my brain even more to handle difficult content. Sometimes yes but most often I prefer not to except for occasions. Well this might differ from person to person but I need to use my brain in the work so I'm not so keen on continuing to overload it with difficult content.

I do hope though that when I want to, I have the choice to do so.

This must have been the dumbest post I've ever seen. If you don't wanna use your brain, feel free to un-subscribe and go play any single-player game on easy mode. The rest of the players should not be given baby content because someone is too tired to play. Also why people feel the need to tell us about their lives? This is a game. We do not care how much everyone is working, and how many hours per week.

Your current argument is that you want easier content, that does not require you to even think, because you are too tired.

Seriously?!