Veteran System Changes Preview

Attorneyatlawl

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

I'm not one bit happy about these changes. You've gotta be kidding me. I guess the WoW crowd has won another round (big surprise, their numbers will always exceed everybody else). If I wanted a Singleplayer game, Skyrim is far superior to ESO in every way.

So very true... I have done several toons (including several on closed beta PTS into various VR's, and two on live to VR12 once it became available, going through all of the veteran area content to do so and then VR11-12 in Craglorn on my DK, and up to VR7 on my NB before doing anything in Craglorn). While the VR content was in very specific spots a little overtuned, it was fun because it was hard and not handed to you effortlessly and mindlessly as all of the 1-50 content (including Manni & Molag, of course) was.

The trend of dumbing down content further and further while not providing players UI tools (without cumbersome, repeatedly-needing-updates addons) or gameplay options to improve their skill level instead, is disheartening. I've written books about this before on these forums before the game launched though...

Casdha

Well, I got close to making it solo to VR10, At least I got Cadwell gold before it gets changed. Honestly the only thing I think needs to be toned down for Solo questing are the Storm Atronachs, at least the ones that you have to defeat to complete a quest. Heck I soloed a VR10 world boss today (that Ogre in Reapers march) and it doesn't hold a candle to a Storm Atronach.

nagarjunna

Whatever changes they are making have been committed by now. I live in hope, but I would expect to see a serious dumbing down so that people who refuse to adjust their playstyle can succeed.

This game has caused me to change the way I play 3 times (at least) and I think that is a way cool thing to happen. Each change has been for the better by the way!

Finger's crossed...

kyoinbeijingnrb18_ESO

Just Nerf the f**king Storm atronach and Gargoyle and control-proof duel-wielding bosses!

SBR_QuorTek

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

One of the topics we frequently get feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.

Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.

We recognize that many of you love the game you played while leveling up, and that you feel the post-50 zones are too much of a departure from that experience. We hear your requests to continue participating in solo content as you progress through Veteran Ranks, and we’re acting on that feedback.

Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System. We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50. Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily. This is just the first of many large-scale changes coming to ESO’s Veteran System, and we encourage you to watch our QuakeCon panel on Friday, July 17th, where we’ll go into much more detail about the other parts.

Thank you for sticking with us, sharing your concerns, and supporting a game we all love.

Leave the actual group content hard though... eg. public group dungeons... world bosses and dolmens.... but that is just a suggestion.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

One of the topics we frequently get feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.

Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.

We recognize that many of you love the game you played while leveling up, and that you feel the post-50 zones are too much of a departure from that experience. We hear your requests to continue participating in solo content as you progress through Veteran Ranks, and we’re acting on that feedback.

Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System. We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50. Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily. This is just the first of many large-scale changes coming to ESO’s Veteran System, and we encourage you to watch our QuakeCon panel on Friday, July 17th, where we’ll go into much more detail about the other parts.

Thank you for sticking with us, sharing your concerns, and supporting a game we all love.

Leave the actual group content hard though... eg. public group dungeons... world bosses and dolmens.... but that is just a suggestion.

That's fine as long as Cadwell's Silver and Gold can be completed without having to group up.

Cogo

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

One of the topics we frequently get feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.

Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.

We recognize that many of you love the game you played while leveling up, and that you feel the post-50 zones are too much of a departure from that experience. We hear your requests to continue participating in solo content as you progress through Veteran Ranks, and we’re acting on that feedback.

Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System. We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50. Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily. This is just the first of many large-scale changes coming to ESO’s Veteran System, and we encourage you to watch our QuakeCon panel on Friday, July 17th, where we’ll go into much more detail about the other parts.

Thank you for sticking with us, sharing your concerns, and supporting a game we all love.

Leave the actual group content hard though... eg. public group dungeons... world bosses and dolmens.... but that is just a suggestion.

Yes, Ill agree with this. Shouldn't really effect solo players, cause these events you cant solo....well, some superman can.

Mostly when these are up, Zonechat starts to get busy. Keep them as they are, are good for Zenimax goal to bring people together. Since you dont need to be grouped to do these.

seneferab16_ESO

Cogo wrote: »

Mostly when these are up, Zonechat starts to get busy. Keep them as they are, are good for Zenimax goal to bring people together. Since you dont need to be grouped to do these.

I love VR dolmens. Actually I wouldn't mind if they were made a lot harder. Not Storm Atronarch harder (you aggro, you dead), but something that requiers a little bit more strategy and teamwork. So you get that feeling of intense sharpening of senses and a will to scream LET'S DO THIS! at your screen before rushing in.

Cogo

I dont say no to that!

And it is quite a nice feeling, when people meet up, I tank, people help. I get healed by someone somewhere......

I am not just talking positive junk now...people starting to play a MMO

Shae

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

One of the topics we frequently get feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.

Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.

We recognize that many of you love the game you played while leveling up, and that you feel the post-50 zones are too much of a departure from that experience. We hear your requests to continue participating in solo content as you progress through Veteran Ranks, and we’re acting on that feedback.

Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System. We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50. Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily. This is just the first of many large-scale changes coming to ESO’s Veteran System, and we encourage you to watch our QuakeCon panel on Friday, July 17th, where we’ll go into much more detail about the other parts.

Thank you for sticking with us, sharing your concerns, and supporting a game we all love.

.... I am disappointed by Zenimax and this nerf ...
I left my last MMORPGs because it was too easy.
If Zenimax Reduced the difficulty of the game each time a player cry, i think that i should leave the game now ...

fethry8oeb17_ESO

at least i got cadvel's gold done before this nerf at vr5 2h sword/bow, 2xh5x med armor dk

and i don't think it's the actual difficulty just some mobs are over powered( their mechanincs) that sucks

dolanjamieb16_ESO

A lot of replies for both party's seem ignorant of the fact that its not only the forums that MUST have provided zenimax with reason to nerf vet content, zenimax and ONLY zenimax know how many people actually hit the VR zones, they will have stats on x amount of players hitting vet rank going to vet zones and then quiting. Once that number gets bigger than the amount of players actually playing these zones + those just simply grinding out craplorn they need to take action.

It would be a rather idiotic to change things bases just on a forum after all we are all paying here

Those not paying who have voted with their credit card are really the ones that matter

MediusMajere

"grinding out Craplorn."
He he he he he...

It's funny because that's an accurate description of what people do in Craglorn. Not dungeons or quests. Mindless boss grinding. xD

steinarmspreeb18_ESO

The thing I dislike the most about veteran leveling is playing trough other alliance zones, and it looks like you are in desperate need of content and this was the cheapest solution.

Please rectify this and allow us who usually level a few different races/classes to enjoy a "fresh" area with a new character instead of giving it that grindy taste

demonlkojipub19_ESO

If I ever make any alts, they won't have to suffer as my main did..

Cogo

I "think" they need to keep us, as well as everyone who will play in august.
Just a guess. I don't like the nerf at all...But, I want to play ESO. With as many players as possible. So rather nerf then no game.

Cogo

steinarmspreeb18_ESO wrote: »

The thing I dislike the most about veteran leveling is playing trough other alliance zones, and it looks like you are in desperate need of content and this was the cheapest solution.

Please rectify this and allow us who usually level a few different races/classes to enjoy a "fresh" area with a new character instead of giving it that grindy taste

I have to agree. I tested it....and found Daggerfall beautiful! But he alliance? Hail to the king!?? Pfff! Not my style!

But there "should" been a vet 1 zone, like Cyro. I have no illusions about how long time and hard work it went into doing Tamriel as we have, along with new stuffs on the way.

genebcolonb14_ESO

hmm -this may actually have me comeback. ill have to hear what they have to say July 17th!

axxses17ub17_ESO

I acutally liked the vet content how it was...yes the build I had been using had to go through some massive editing but I found one I enjoyed more that could solo quite a bit of the vet content. I'm both eager and hesitant to see what this new patch brings with it.

Nylan

Disappointed to see you making the mistake of dummying down the game to the lowest common denominator, this is a deal breaker for me and is what has ruined so many MMO's. I have been able to solo the current content, and ya, you have to be more deliberate, but thats ok. Not much fun in just plowing thru mobs with ease.

Buck

Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System.

I read the patch notes... what's changed for vet content? Bring a couple zones more "in line..." ...this makes the over reacting almost silly now lol

Karizza

Denaia wrote: »

Thanks for the changes. I just wonder one thing

How hard will this nerfing be? I did not enjoy the difficulty of 1-50 much as it was way too easy for my liking, while vr 1-12 could certainly be a bit easier. But I wonder, will it be the same difficulty as 1-50 or will it be a middleground of what's its now? As I wonder if I will enjoy ploughing through vr 1-12 if it's extremely easy and I fall asleep playing.

Depends on which class you play how easy solo play can be. If you are a DK or Sorc yes you might have gotten through it solo. The other classes are made to group to progress because they lack the damage, regenerative powers, and defensive powers needed to over come the disadvantage.

The game at level VR-7 has become groups of mobs 2-3 that are very difficult to progress through. I know that my Templar with heavy armor and using armor/spell resist abilities gets hit like he is wearing tissue paper by just one mob.

It may be a combination of things like Heavy Armor not being that much of a difference, regen or replacing stamina -magic pools-cooldowns-lack of ultimate abilities that are beneficial, or just the quantity and toughness of mobs.
It is very difficult to solo vet zones and the slowness of leveling because of it, keeps one for enjoying the progress of the game.

In order to train new weapons and armor skills, one needs to be able to kill mobs that give experience. Ever try to solo VR7-12 mobs with a weapon that has never had the skill increase? Any changes that will help solo content in the game will be welcomed and be good for the game in general.

mqlaurenceb14_ESO

OMG ZOS, what are you DOING!?

Veteran ranked zones are tougher, and that's a good thing! You can still solo if you want but it's tough and for a reason. The game presented a challenge that was easily overcome if you just grouped up with ONE other person and completed quests. WHY are you reducing the difficulty that encouraged people to interact?!

REALLY, out of all the things you're "listening" too it's the people playing this game for the single player aspect that don't know how to use zone chat and find a questing partner or join a guild that actively helps each other out with questing.

That's one of the core problems, you can't quest together in this game due to instance issues. You can't fix/redesign that so instead you just mash on your red "easy" button and see what comes out.

GG ZOS, another swing and a MISS!

joeparadis_ESO

So based upon reading other forum posts this is what needs to be done to solve the veteran content issues:

1) Don't Nerf Craglorn, instead clue the player into the fact that vet zones (like craglorn) require grouping in order to get through via new dialog from Cadwell. "Well you could go to this Craglorn place, I here there's plenty of adventure to be found there, but I wouldn't go at it alone ol boy. Best to pick up a few companions along the way to take on all those beasties with." Maybe nerf the alliance zones so the facerollers can solo them to get to vet zones. But leveling in group oriented Vet zones should harder but also faster and more rewarding. (5 new vet zones get you to v10, craglorn still gives you v11 and v12, alternatively you COULD turn Craglorn into the new vet1-2 zone but I think that you would have to fast track other new content. for higher level players.)

2) FIX GROUPING AND PHASING MECHANICS. These still suck and it is the reason why everyone is soloing. In fact you should probably do away with most "phasing" instances. Players should be able to work together to solve puzzles, repeat quests with lower level players etc. etc. Look at how they do it in WoW then do the same thing in ESO. Stop trying to re-invent the wheel when the current wheel just works fine. Right now ESO is trying to roll around on octagons.

3) Add new unique and difficult group oriented Vet content to fill in the gaps between vet1 - vet10 so you don't have to grind through repeating the alliances. Again keep the ability to repeat other alliances and maybe nerf the difficulty slightly so there is an option to keep playing for the faceroll soloists.

I think these 3 things will be a good start to resolve the veteran content issues, and resolving the phasing issues will really help with the multiplayer dynamics in general. It will be a step in the right direction to help retain subscribers and perhaps get a few more.

joeparadis_ESO

Another option you can do instead of nerfing... offer free guides on how to play better for MMO newbies. Or maybe even a starter guide of some kind for TES players with unrealistic expectations. A primer to get them familiar with how to play an MMO, what different roles are such as healer, tank, dps. What the various MMO acronyms mean, what kind of difficulty expectations they should have etc.

Most soloists are former TES players and while I (being a TES player first time MMO player) took the time to google and learn how to play an MMO as well as familiarize myself with the lingo, I know many ESO TES players did not do that and are playing the game as if it's a single player TES game with minimal contact with other players. A lot of times both in my personal and professional life its a matter of setting the correct expectations ahead of time. If you adjust people's expectations they will adapt. If you are constantly bending over backwards to try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one.

Remember the wise words of Abraham Lincoln: “You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”

Grim13

The issue of VR difficulty is actually a simple one: the problem is born out of the class imbalances.

Half of the game's classes, it shouldn't be hard to figure out which 2, boot stomp everything in their path quite easily, already, so any decrease in difficulty will leave the game feeling ridiculous...

While the other half, again easily discerned, struggle with the difficulty of VR content because of the limitations in their class design... these people are likely, overall, happy with the decrease in difficulty...

Same for stamina-reliant builds.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

joeparadis_ESO wrote: »

Another option you can do instead of nerfing... offer free guides on how to play better for MMO newbies. Or maybe even a starter guide of some kind for TES players with unrealistic expectations. A primer to get them familiar with how to play an MMO, what different roles are such as healer, tank, dps. What the various MMO acronyms mean, what kind of difficulty expectations they should have etc.

Or maybe players play MMOs for reasons other than wanting to 'group up' simply to level?

I've played many MMOs since I began in FFXI in '05, and that was an entirely 'group or die' game back then with one exception, so I know how to play MMOs: I hate the concept of forced grouping to simply level up, I had hoped EQ-like mechanics that FFXI followed had died last century.

You're pretty condescending towards 'TES' players as you put it, I think nearly all players know "how to play an MMO" in your terms, maybe they have other ideas?

Accept it, people see ESO in GW2 terms, where 'ad hoc' grouping is the name of the leveling game, not EQ.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Thanks for keeping us in the know Jessica. I have only just this past weekend tried Craglorn at VR1. Upon leaving the village/town (aka "safezone"), I encountered two wasps which I attacked only to find they were VR11 and consequently I was promptly dispatched (aka had my rear-end handed to me-lol!). I felt like maybe I had missed an area bcoz they out matched me by 10 levels. Needless to say I was a little disappointed in what I thot were well developed skills, if not a little insulted and a whole lot embarrassed by being so soundly defeated by bugs. B4 this I had seen discussion on it and knew there was an issue. People have given this enuff thot (there was a forum discussion polling whether or not we would want a difficulty slider) then it must be a significant issue, so being beaten didn't bother me too much. I know there are a significant amount of players that primarily solo or solo with occasional informal grouping, like in public dungeons (thats me btw), so this wil go a long way in pleasing the masses.

Can't wait 2 try it again after 2day's update.

Thanks again! :-)

Innkwell_ESO

Question to the developers.

Why was it not more important to FIRST up the rewards and VR XP so that people would understand that you need to have better gear to stay competitive in the VR environment?

you should have FIRST rationalized how the game works in VR and progressive MMO environments ( IE getting better drops so people have better stats and can make better stuff via breaking down rewards) and reducing mob stats across the board by approx. 10-15%. ( excluding group content -dolmens/WB/PD's)

Instead you basically cut their difficulty in half ( regardless of the %'s you posted), and made the road to endgame even more mind-numbingly redundant. People dont farm trash mobs for experience ( Crows wood excluded) and doing this really makes it seems like you want us to.
Also since the majority of the leveling is done through questing/objective based goals... reducing mob difficulty only speeds up progression on those few parts of the game where you couldn't kill mobs to finish the objective or get past them to an update.
Mobs were not the main thing blocking people from progressing or making them unsub ( I wont go into what I think did make them unsub)
THEREFORE, Mob nerfs shouldn't even have been on your list except for the last thing AFTER rewards and gains were tuned up.

Please revert the nerfs to the mobs, Increase the VR rewards, and the VR experience gains.This way people achieve leveling and end game not through facerolling on their keyboard... but actually upgrading their gear and capping their skills.

I for one have swapped to leveling skills and re-morphed them JUST to switch it up during the leveling journey, which continued to be a challenge in how I approached the mobs.

In its current state, I can use any build, no heals, no ultimate, no block, no dodge, and basically just 2 skills and or auto attacks and still come out on top. and that's just in the VR7 zone.... in Craglorn me and ONE other person can take on ANY size pack w/o even using more then combat prayer. ( yes, storm atronochs included -_-)
You are basically mirroring the 1-50 experience once you got the hang of the game and taking any and all challenge out of it.

As it stands now I can find "ZERO" truly challenging content outside of dungeons ( which require a full group of competent players) and the trials that I haven't done yet ( since im VR7).
I'm not trying to sound like an elitist snob, Im just speaking my mind and what I hear from a lot of fellow players, and having NO challenge translates to NO fun for a lot of people.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, take these suggestions into consideration.
I want to play this game for years to come, but when you do things in an effort to dumb it down WAAAY to hard when other improvements were more appealing as a whole I have a hard time using logic to understand why...


A patient subscriber,
Skooma

nagarjunna

I've yet to run after the patch. My only block was Vox end fight... I'm Vr3. Always died even after multiple attempts and multiple load outs on the skill bar and different tactics.

I wanted to solo this before the nerf. Oh, well! Perhaps it will be easier - but please let it not be too easy! So boring!