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Duels? Yes or no?
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emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Wait wait - so all of this, just because dueling isn't "real PvP"? Who cares if it fits into your definition of PvP? If people like it, and no one is forced to participate in it, why are you so against it?Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Where does this rubbish that people use dueling as a way to spam people come from?
In every MMO that has come out in the last 10 years, that apparently you havent played.
Far too hard to take your post seriously when you start it off with such an obvious oversight of any underleveled players run of the mill trip to the bank vault in any of mentioned MMO's.
Pretty infantile argument all around. Removing the trees? Serious?
Examples?
like I said, It isn't something I have 'seen' first hand, if you read my whole post I mentioned how I could see how it 'could be', I also offered a very simple solution.
'Infantile argument all around. Removing the trees?'
Aye, it was intended to be so, just like the arguments against duels!
Actually there were some pretty well thought out arguments against it, some for, but mainly against it, on the first few pages. Just because you completely disregard it, doesn't matter.
All it took was you and a few others inexperienced and clueless PVE duel-lite types to start polluting this thread with your complete lack of knowledge for it to completely go downhill. You're just repeating the same very weak arguments of how you personally benefited from duels, when you're simply being told regardless of how you think you've benefited it isn't real PVP, for many many reasons which have already been explained to you, ad nauseam. And on the basis of those arguments you clearly should talk about something you DO know something about, rather than going around grabbing bulls by the horns.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —0 -
BugCollector✭✭✭✭YES for duels! And please don't restrict it to dueling enemy players, but also players from the same Alliance. It's the only way I can get my friend back to ESO :'(Edited by BugCollector on July 15, 2014 1:02PMMay knowledge guide you to enlightenment1 -
SaibotLiu✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Where does this rubbish that people use dueling as a way to spam people come from?
In every MMO that has come out in the last 10 years, that apparently you havent played.
Far too hard to take your post seriously when you start it off with such an obvious oversight of any underleveled players run of the mill trip to the bank vault in any of mentioned MMO's.
Pretty infantile argument all around. Removing the trees? Serious?
Examples?
like I said, It isn't something I have 'seen' first hand, if you read my whole post I mentioned how I could see how it 'could be', I also offered a very simple solution.
'Infantile argument all around. Removing the trees?'
Aye, it was intended to be so, just like the arguments against duels!
Actually there were some pretty well thought out arguments against it, some for, but mainly against it, on the first few pages. Just because you completely disregard it, doesn't matter.
All it took was you and a few others inexperienced and clueless PVE duel-lite types to start polluting this thread with your complete lack of knowledge for it to completely go downhill. You're just repeating the same very weak arguments of how you personally benefited from duels, when you're simply being told regardless of how you think you've benefited it isn't real PVP, for many many reasons which have already been explained to you, ad nauseam. And on the basis of those arguments you clearly should talk about something you DO know something about, rather than going around grabbing bulls by the horns.
Again you 'need' to resort to personal insults as a way make yourself feel better.
There were no good arguments against dueling, just the same old two arguments, which is that it can be used for spamming, the easy solution has been pointed out so many times.
And then the better use of developers time, which anyone could say about anything and just comes down to selfishness.
Dueling doesn't need to happen because it's pointless. But it is anyways, and still no subs were won/lost. If ever there existed a non issue for ESO, this would qualify.
Other people who were against duels let their opinions known, you dismissing their contributions to the thread so easily just shows how quick you are attempting to win an argument without even understanding what it is about. Which is why you're feeling insulted and not being taken seriously.
And not a single *** was given.
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SaibotLiu✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Wait wait - so all of this, just because dueling isn't "real PvP"? Who cares if it fits into your definition of PvP? If people like it, and no one is forced to participate in it, why are you so against it?Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Where does this rubbish that people use dueling as a way to spam people come from?
In every MMO that has come out in the last 10 years, that apparently you havent played.
Far too hard to take your post seriously when you start it off with such an obvious oversight of any underleveled players run of the mill trip to the bank vault in any of mentioned MMO's.
Pretty infantile argument all around. Removing the trees? Serious?
Examples?
like I said, It isn't something I have 'seen' first hand, if you read my whole post I mentioned how I could see how it 'could be', I also offered a very simple solution.
'Infantile argument all around. Removing the trees?'
Aye, it was intended to be so, just like the arguments against duels!
Actually there were some pretty well thought out arguments against it, some for, but mainly against it, on the first few pages. Just because you completely disregard it, doesn't matter.
All it took was you and a few others inexperienced and clueless PVE duel-lite types to start polluting this thread with your complete lack of knowledge for it to completely go downhill. You're just repeating the same very weak arguments of how you personally benefited from duels, when you're simply being told regardless of how you think you've benefited it isn't real PVP, for many many reasons which have already been explained to you, ad nauseam. And on the basis of those arguments you clearly should talk about something you DO know something about, rather than going around grabbing bulls by the horns.
I care. That's why I commented on it honestly.
I assume other people care about my opinion, which is why you went out of the way to ask me, and it upsets some people a lot. If anything it just validates my position further.
Duelists tend to have a lot to prove, and do so very awkwardly. This thread I think is a nice commentary on what we can expect when the duel system goes live. The personalities it brings out are sparkling.
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Where does this rubbish that people use dueling as a way to spam people come from?
In every MMO that has come out in the last 10 years, that apparently you havent played.
Far too hard to take your post seriously when you start it off with such an obvious oversight of any underleveled players run of the mill trip to the bank vault in any of mentioned MMO's.
Pretty infantile argument all around. Removing the trees? Serious?
Examples?
like I said, It isn't something I have 'seen' first hand, if you read my whole post I mentioned how I could see how it 'could be', I also offered a very simple solution.
'Infantile argument all around. Removing the trees?'
Aye, it was intended to be so, just like the arguments against duels!
Actually there were some pretty well thought out arguments against it, some for, but mainly against it, on the first few pages. Just because you completely disregard it, doesn't matter.
All it took was you and a few others inexperienced and clueless PVE duel-lite types to start polluting this thread with your complete lack of knowledge for it to completely go downhill. You're just repeating the same very weak arguments of how you personally benefited from duels, when you're simply being told regardless of how you think you've benefited it isn't real PVP, for many many reasons which have already been explained to you, ad nauseam. And on the basis of those arguments you clearly should talk about something you DO know something about, rather than going around grabbing bulls by the horns.
Again you 'need' to resort to personal insults as a way make yourself feel better.
There were no good arguments against dueling, just the same old two arguments, which is that it can be used for spamming, the easy solution has been pointed out so many times.
And then the better use of developers time, which anyone could say about anything and just comes down to selfishness.
Dueling doesn't need to happen because it's pointless. But it is anyways, and still no subs were won/lost. If ever there existed a non issue for ESO, this would qualify.
Other people who were against duels let their opinions known, you dismissing their contributions to the thread so easily just shows how quick you are attempting to win an argument without even understanding what it is about. Which is why you're feeling insulted and not being taken seriously.
And not a single *** was given.
I didn't dismiss there reasons, I agreed with them then offered solutions.
Duels are not pointless. They are FUN if nothing more. A enjoyable way to waste time. Only your arguments are pointless because every point you make comes down to I, me, me, mine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pFCPTYq5Tc
We get it, you don't like to duel. Now add an opinion that is not 100% selfish!0 -
Izzban✭✭✭I vote no to duels.
1- I don't want dev time devoted to something I will never use.
2- If it is implemented, I don't ever want to see or hear about it and I don't mind dev time being devoted to that end.
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭I vote no to duels.
1- I don't want dev time devoted to something I will never use.
2- If it is implemented, I don't ever want to see or hear about it and I don't mind dev time being devoted to that end.
Much better for the devs to concentrate on useless pets that clog up your inventory, rather than something fun that many players will enjoy.
Like I said, the same two arguments over and over again.0 -
SaibotLiu✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Where does this rubbish that people use dueling as a way to spam people come from?
In every MMO that has come out in the last 10 years, that apparently you havent played.
Far too hard to take your post seriously when you start it off with such an obvious oversight of any underleveled players run of the mill trip to the bank vault in any of mentioned MMO's.
Pretty infantile argument all around. Removing the trees? Serious?
Examples?
like I said, It isn't something I have 'seen' first hand, if you read my whole post I mentioned how I could see how it 'could be', I also offered a very simple solution.
'Infantile argument all around. Removing the trees?'
Aye, it was intended to be so, just like the arguments against duels!
Actually there were some pretty well thought out arguments against it, some for, but mainly against it, on the first few pages. Just because you completely disregard it, doesn't matter.
All it took was you and a few others inexperienced and clueless PVE duel-lite types to start polluting this thread with your complete lack of knowledge for it to completely go downhill. You're just repeating the same very weak arguments of how you personally benefited from duels, when you're simply being told regardless of how you think you've benefited it isn't real PVP, for many many reasons which have already been explained to you, ad nauseam. And on the basis of those arguments you clearly should talk about something you DO know something about, rather than going around grabbing bulls by the horns.
Again you 'need' to resort to personal insults as a way make yourself feel better.
There were no good arguments against dueling, just the same old two arguments, which is that it can be used for spamming, the easy solution has been pointed out so many times.
And then the better use of developers time, which anyone could say about anything and just comes down to selfishness.
Dueling doesn't need to happen because it's pointless. But it is anyways, and still no subs were won/lost. If ever there existed a non issue for ESO, this would qualify.
Other people who were against duels let their opinions known, you dismissing their contributions to the thread so easily just shows how quick you are attempting to win an argument without even understanding what it is about. Which is why you're feeling insulted and not being taken seriously.
And not a single *** was given.
I didn't dismiss there reasons, I agreed with them then offered solutions.
Duels are not pointless. They are FUN if nothing more. A enjoyable way to waste time. Only your arguments are pointless because every point you make comes down to I, me, me, mine.
We get it, you don't like to duel. Now add an opinion that is not 100% selfish!
Any further reasoning on the matter would go entirely wasted on you to be perfectly honest.
"Only your arguments are pointless because every point you make.."
How can they be pointless when I've made a point?
"comes down to I, me, me, mine"
Am I supposed to be making your point for you, because you're obviously completely incapable of doing so? Don't think that's the way it works.
"We get it, you don't like to duel. Now add an opinion that is not 100% selfish!"
That's like asking me to see the view from the other side, I don't even think you understand your own side, you should never ask more from others than what you yourself are capable of. Bad form.
Edited by SaibotLiu on July 15, 2014 1:21PM0 -
Mondo✭✭✭✭Yes but there must be an option for people who generally dont want duels to decline them without getting spammedIm not the Hero you need, im the Troll you deserve!
- Survived the WoW Pre LK Rogue Forum "Come at me Bro" -
L2P = Accept that DK is OP and stop complaining1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭"Any further reasoning on the matter would go entirely wasted on you to be perfectly honest."
So why reply?"How can they be pointless when I've made a point."
As I pointed out, all your points boil down to 'I don't want it' (as in you)"Am I supposed to be making your point for you, because you're obviously completely incapable of doing so? Don't think that's the way it works."
I was referring to a song where the singer points to people saying I, me, me, mine. You know, pointing out the selfishness in such a thinking."That's like asking me to see the view from the other side, I don't even think you understand your own side, you should never ask more from others than what you yourself are capable of. Bad form."
You don't see the difference?
me - I want duels because i enjoy them.
you - I don't want duels because I don't like them, because I don't like them I don't want you to enjoy them either.
and you claim I don't understand.Edited by Tannakaobi on July 15, 2014 1:32PM0 -
SaibotLiu✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »I want duels because i enjoy them.
So in other words, you're selfish.
I'm replying because I find it genuinely funny the way people who are so passionate about needing duels carry on. While it is entertaining and horrifying all at the same time, it does serve to justify every single stereotype I could ever subject you to.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this doesn't really effect me. I don't give two damns whether you get duels or not. Again, maybe if you actually read the thread, took time to understand the various statements that were made on the subject, then you'd get some perspective.
Edited by SaibotLiu on July 15, 2014 1:42PM0 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just keep it out of the way - require a specific location (fighters guild basement) to even participate. There wouldn't be need for an auto decline if they just confined dueling to an out of the way location, which takes care of obnoxious duels in banks and people spamming chat for a duel in the world.0 -
Fuzzylumpkins✭✭✭✭
We would never have guessed you were 14. Not with such convincing, reasoned logic. You win the internet.
You win at being condescending and taking legit topics off the discussion due to disagreeing with posters because of your 1 sided narrow arguments. If you disagree, fine, but understand an overwhelming majority do not agree you including the developers. Hence, no duelling. If you want to pay a monthly sub to sit in the city and duel all day, their are other games.
Edited by Fuzzylumpkins on July 15, 2014 11:03PM0 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »I want duels because i enjoy them.
So in other words, you're selfish.
I'm replying because I find it genuinely funny the way people who are so passionate about needing duels carry on. While it is entertaining and horrifying all at the same time, it does serve to justify every single stereotype I could ever subject you to.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this doesn't really effect me. I don't give two damns whether you get duels or not. Again, maybe if you actually read the thread, took time to understand the various statements that were made on the subject, then you'd get some perspective.
I already said it was selfish, I'll quote myself -
'And then the better use of developers time, which anyone could say about anything and just comes down to selfishness.'
The point is I'm being selfish because I want something, you are being selfish because you don't want people to have something.I'm replying because I find it genuinely funny the way people who are so passionate about needing duels carry on. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this doesn't really effect me. I don't give two damns whether you get duels or not.
so you are trolling? then:Maybe if you actually read the thread, took time to understand the various statements that were made on the subject, then you'd get some perspective.
The points against:
1) It can be used as spam. Solution = designated area's
2) It's a waste of developers time. It's a floored argument, everything could be considered this as everyone will never like everything.
The point's for:
1) It's fun for many people, the example being that most mmo's have the function.
2) It can be useful to help practice. Maybe not for everyone, but for many.
I think my understanding of the thread is fine and you are simply trolling. As you pointed out yourself:I'm replying because I find it genuinely funny the way people who are so passionate about needing duels carry on. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this doesn't really effect me. I don't give two damns whether you get duels or not.
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SaibotLiu✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »I want duels because i enjoy them.
So in other words, you're selfish.
I'm replying because I find it genuinely funny the way people who are so passionate about needing duels carry on. While it is entertaining and horrifying all at the same time, it does serve to justify every single stereotype I could ever subject you to.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this doesn't really effect me. I don't give two damns whether you get duels or not. Again, maybe if you actually read the thread, took time to understand the various statements that were made on the subject, then you'd get some perspective.
I already said it was selfish, I'll quote myself -
'And then the better use of developers time, which anyone could say about anything and just comes down to selfishness.'
The point is I'm being selfish because I want something, you are being selfish because you don't want people to have something.I'm replying because I find it genuinely funny the way people who are so passionate about needing duels carry on. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this doesn't really effect me. I don't give two damns whether you get duels or not.
so you are trolling? then:Maybe if you actually read the thread, took time to understand the various statements that were made on the subject, then you'd get some perspective.
The points against:
1) It can be used as spam. Solution = designated area's
2) It's a waste of developers time. It's a floored argument, everything could be considered this as everyone will never like everything.
The point's for:
1) It's fun for many people, the example being that most mmo's have the function.
2) It can be useful to help practice. Maybe not for everyone, but for many.
I think my understanding of the thread is fine and you are simply trolling. As you pointed out yourself:I'm replying because I find it genuinely funny the way people who are so passionate about needing duels carry on. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this doesn't really effect me. I don't give two damns whether you get duels or not.
I find it ironic that you complain that people against duels can only repeat the same two arguments against it over and over again (which most definitely hasn't been the case, there's been much said on it already) when you've mentioned the same two reasons no less than 4 times on this thread, exactly two, not more, not less.
I don't see anyone really caring about the topic anymore, I think you killed it mate. It stopped being fun (or interesting) about 2 pages ago.
You must be the life of the party back home.
If my point all along was "why to keep PVEers out of PVP, where it all can and does go horribly wrong, do not put duels in game, because they're for obnoxious PVE type players who just want to abuse a system with no consequences and annoy people". I think I would've hit the nail right on the head. I think I did say that at some point.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting CommentsEdited by ZOS_UlyssesW on July 15, 2014 6:40PM0 -
dannymcgr81b14_ESO✭✭✭✭Did they confirm that duels are coming with the justice system? This is the only quote I can find: "Dueling isn’t something we don’t want. It is just the rules for duels can be tricky in the environments. Once the Justice system goes in we will have the system setup since the Justice system will feature some PvP."0 -
Rundarek✭Simple reason for no unrestricted duels: immersion.
It simply doesn't fit the setting if you make a turn around a Corner and find yourself in front of two guys duking it out over and over again on Main Street just for the heck of it.
This isnt't Lineage II or Silkroad or any immersion free grindfest MMO out there, this is The Elder Scrolls Online where stuff like immersion actually (and thankfully so) is at least a minor concern for the devs.
Implementation with the Crime and Justice System might be valid, but I would guess it would come with consequences.
I am not against duels or the possibility for players to duel. But I am against immersion breaking dueling on every second corner. Some kind of Arena in different Areas or stuff like that for "open, unpunished" dueling would be absolutely fine with me.0 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭no thanksReften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.0 -
Xnemesis✭✭✭✭dannymcgr81b14_ESO wrote: »Did they confirm that duels are coming with the justice system? This is the only quote I can find: "Dueling isn’t something we don’t want. It is just the rules for duels can be tricky in the environments. Once the Justice system goes in we will have the system setup since the Justice system will feature some PvP."
Yup that is the quote I am talking about. The way he phrased it seems as though he knows duels are coming but doesn't want to commit on if it will be with justice system or just after. Either way its coming eventually so this thread is kinda like beating a dead horse and non constructive.1 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭dannymcgr81b14_ESO wrote: »Did they confirm that duels are coming with the justice system? This is the only quote I can find: "Dueling isn’t something we don’t want. It is just the rules for duels can be tricky in the environments. Once the Justice system goes in we will have the system setup since the Justice system will feature some PvP."
I wasn't aware of that quote! Here's to hoping that lawful characters can beat down and 'arrest' the thievish riff raff.1 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I posted a thread about this as well. I don't get the opposition. Just allow duels but only outside of cities and only if you flag yourself to be able to be challenged. That way you can't spam duel invites and cities won't be full of people fighting. Everybody wins.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job1 -
dannymcgr81b14_ESO✭✭✭✭Agreed. When I read that quote I figured that they were coming eventually. I was just wondering if I had missed something that gave more exact data.
1 -
Xnemesis✭✭✭✭dannymcgr81b14_ESO wrote: »Agreed. When I read that quote I figured that they were coming eventually. I was just wondering if I had missed something that gave more exact data.
I think that we will be very much delighted at the information that comes out during the quakecon live stream and Q&A on the 17th. That is probably why he cant commit on anything.0 -
Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭Well blackwidow. I hate to say it but I agree with you. LolEdited by Mr.Turtlesworth on July 15, 2014 2:43PMI r robot
hear me roar1 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fairydragon3 wrote: »
Uhoh......he said his age is 14 ish.....this wont end well
It never does, not when the carebears get all riled up. It's going to be pack frenzy in here in no time flat.
Hi. I am a hard core PvP'er in most my MMO adventures. Let me educate you...The vast majority of the MMO market is your precious "Care bear" aka the PvE community. If you have any love for this game, or any game at that matter...I would highly advise you look out for their best interests as well. Most MMO business models rely on the "Carebear" population to keep the game afloat.
Edited by Makkir on July 16, 2014 12:53AM1 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭I vote no to duels.
1- I don't want dev time devoted to something I will never use.
2- If it is implemented, I don't ever want to see or hear about it and I don't mind dev time being devoted to that end.
Oh My bad. I didn't realize I was playing The Elder Izzban Online.
Dueling bears no effect on other players, especially if there's an auto decline option. Secondly, I am pretty sure dueling is on the horizon with the justice system...so this thread is pretty pointless.
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh something else to consider...I am fairly certain in most games Dueling doesn't cost you durability whereas PvP does. Sometimes people try a new spec, want to practice hotkeys and macros against a live opponent instead of the Environment and do so without a penalty.1 -
SaibotLiu✭✭✭✭Fairydragon3 wrote: »
Uhoh......he said his age is 14 ish.....this wont end well
It never does, not when the carebears get all riled up. It's going to be pack frenzy in here in no time flat.
Hi. I am a hard core PvP'er in most my MMO adventures. Let me educate you...The vast majority of the MMO market is your precious "Care bear" aka the PvE community.
So as a "hardcore PVPer" you're basically happy getting a WoW clone because there aren't near enough of those already, just because that's what appeals to the lowest common denominator. I call BS on at least one of those thoughts, you can't be a "hardcore PVPer" and reconcile vanilla gameplay and a game selling its soul for subs with making a good game, it doesn't work like that. Generally you have to pick one or the other.
So allow me to educate you. The vast majority of the "Hardcore PVP" market wants open world PVP, duels a nonfactor. This is why we have games like Dark Fall and Archeage. While these games may not be thriving successes in the west, in other areas of the world like Korea where MMO's are a profession, this is what people want. If you're in support of cramming as many features into an MMO and making it a muddled incoherent mess with no identity, then I suppose you can keep your fickle casual market, and play cash grab games for a few months before you move on. Because that's all they ever amount to. Then they exist on F2P life support for the duration because they bring nothing unique or interesting to the market. That's what your precious casual community has done to MMO's.
If you realize that WoW is never happening again, and the future of the MMO is in niche games that cater to specific playstyles, then you'd be with me. But that takes just a bit more vision, but you readily accept what developers want to feed you, without bothering to look for an alternative.
2