Duels? Yes or no?

SaibotLiu

Blackwidow wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

I tried to reason with you, you insisted on calling people dumb and trying to throw your forum weight around.

I never called you dumb and I did not know I had so much clout I was throwing my weight around.

I said very clearly, "You are saying you don't want it because other games have it. That is just dumb, sorry.

Being different, just to be different is not a good reason."

The idea that different just to be different is not logical. It is just that simple.

Just because I think an idea is dumb, does not mean I think you are dumb. I would hope you would understand the difference.

I gave you every opportunity to have a civil discourse, but you declined.

Clearly, you were trying to be nice as possible while I trolled you to the ends of the earth.

I see that now. *rolleyes*

Maybe I should not have called your idea stupid, but to be fair I did say sorry in the same sentence and the comment was not very logical.

Now, we can drop this and be calm or you can continue to rant and i will really have to ignore you.

I couldn't give two rats asses what you call me, or what you want to call my beliefs. Anyone who has seen you on the forums should expect nothing less than poorly thought out posts and trivial little jabs. It's irrelevant.

I'm happy you will eventually get your duels, and I hope you've found your MMO home, in fact I would put you and all those like you in one MMO place if I could, that way the rest of us could focus on improving games and coming up with significant changes to the way MMO's work. I'm well aware the limits of your vision are "MOAR BANK SPACE, MOAR DUELS PLZ." Like I said, no problem, have at it.

The problem comes when you tire of this game, and you've made it just like everything else you've played, and you move on to the "next big thing" and take up the same crusade there. That's the point you're not getting, or never will get. You will not stay at ESO, as soon as you get your way and it's become like everything else you've played, you'll get bored and move on and campaign for changes on an entirely different game to make it like things you've already experienced. It's sad, but inevitable.

And if people like myself did not exist, and were happy to sit back and not at least offer a different view of things, all MMO's would continue to suck. I believe we do not have to accept that, and should expect something different.

It's not about being different for the sake of it, it's about allowing things that are different to exist so that there are options.

You think that's dumb, I think it's just logical. But for you it's about getting your way, it's childish and counter productive. And I really wouldn't have expected you to react any differently.

ZOS_AlvinM

Hi everyone, we welcome debate on the forums, but please keep any criticism or disagreement civil and constructive. This discussion is getting heated, and we need to cool it off and get it back on track. It's important that we keep the atmosphere here friendly and welcoming.

Thank you for your cooperation.

kaosodin

There needs to be duels.

Also give me a server of full pvp every where except main citys

moxiesauce

SaibotLiu wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Paul Sage mentions dueling here: http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/

Don't expect dueling to happen before the Justice System is in place.

That's fine. As long as the justice system is somewhat unique and inventive, I'm all for that. But somehow I expect it won't be long until the same group on the forums is whinging like a wounded donkey about it before any redeeming qualities about it are killed off.

What if dueling was only allowed in housing zones Those that don't want it wont get it, those that do will. Everyone wins.

It's perfectly fine with me if they add it, in whatever manifestation. Cyrodiil is already mostly dead, class balance is a joke. It's not a PVPers game at this stage. I suppose it makes sense to allow the PVEers a mechanic where they can fancy themselves uber PVPers, since the genuine article is trickling off.

I was thinking for the health of the game it would be wise to invest in features that encourages meaningful PVP, if that is not their intention, so be it.

Cyrodiil is their meaningful PvP, I'd love for them to even make arena meaningful as well. As for dueling it has never mattered in any mmo I've played and never should, outside of honing skills or boredom. A solution to making meaningful duels would be the 1v1 arena like in oblivion, which they have already had in mind.

Makkir

Instead of auto-declining duels or having some global dueling system, I think it would be a neat option to have a Coliseum where players could fight 1v1 in a gladiator style arena match. Would be awesome to spectate as well!

Makkir

Blackwidow wrote: »

Most people expect dueling to be in a AAA game, is what I was getting at. Just like most people expect to see an AH, a law system, to be able to swim underwater, a fully function bank system, etc.

Having played almost every advertised MMO title out there, no. I came to ESO to try a different type of cookie. The game is original, and does not need what every other cookie cutter MMO has.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Makkir wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Most people expect dueling to be in a AAA game, is what I was getting at. Just like most people expect to see an AH, a law system, to be able to swim underwater, a fully function bank system, etc.

Having played almost every advertised MMO title out there, no. I came to ESO to try a different type of cookie. The game is original, and does not need what every other cookie cutter MMO has.

That smiley is clearly on Prozac.

ExiledKhallisi

Who cares if people want to duel? It doesn't effect you who dont at all. Just implement an option to ignore duels and that's it. Dueling is a great way in MMO's to learn how to not suck at pvp.

Blackwidow

Makkir wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Most people expect dueling to be in a AAA game, is what I was getting at. Just like most people expect to see an AH, a law system, to be able to swim underwater, a fully function bank system, etc.

Having played almost every advertised MMO title out there, no. I came to ESO to try a different type of cookie. The game is original, and does not need what every other cookie cutter MMO has.

Well, good thing there is a /auto decline so you won't have to duel.

That was easy.

Ruebs

I know it's been said before, but I'd LOVE to see a Duel/Battle system with optional Bets. Perhaps In an Arena stage or in a specific 1v1 area. (The city center of Cryodiil maybe?).
A controlled group PvP function would be fun too. Anywhere from 2v2 to 12v12. Imagine the guild rivalry's and high stakes, with Gold could be bet on the outcome of the battles!
This would be insanely fun. I for one are CRAVING some 1v1's.

-I want fight those pesky players of enemy factions that always 'tea-bag' my corpse!

-I want to pit myself against Guild Members! So we can have a hierarchy that's not solely governed by who 'claims' to be the toughest.

-For Azura's sake, I want to Vs my FRIENDS. I have about half a dozen RL friends I regularly play with, all on the same faction, but we can't fight eachother...!

I simply can't understand why there wasn't some kind of 1v1 right from day dot.
Competition is what makes an MMO and is also a leading factor in it's longevity.

Hamfast

Did they finally add an auto decline to that other game? last time I played I needed an add on to decline all the duels... then I got to hear the PAK's all getting their ePeens worked up, making fools of themselves and annoying everyone within sight or hearing...

Auto-Decline is not enough, Auto-decline and ignore is what's needed... as well as a "Report" function for the ePeen waving PAKs... without the full auto-decline and ignore functionality, I would not think about supporting the idea of duels...with it, I would at least think about it.

Personally I would like to see 2 of the Cyrodiil Campaign's have special rules, first is a free-for all... anyone can fight anyone at anytime... the second is PvP by Challenge - Anyone can challenge anyone, step into a fighting circle (Small for 1v1 larger for 3v3 and 5v5, and a few huge ones for larger groups... Then folks like me, the ones Blackwidow seems to forget exist, could just stay out of Cyrodiil and avoid the whole thing...

The only groups my Cyrodiil idea would not work for is the Role players that feel the need to fight each other when the urge and theatrics require it... the other group is the gankers who would rather not have people around that would be ready to fight back... I am sorry for the role players...

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Sleepydan wrote: »

Dueling is fun. Dueling is also good practice.

I don't PVP, dueling at best is irrelevant and at worst a huge annoyance as ***-heads do it in banks and other congested areas just to be ***-heads.

We're already bombarded with moronic AoE spam we don't need yet more encouragement to those morons.

Hilgara

The more options the better. Duels, Arena, Battle grounds....as long as its done with other people in mind who may not want to partake in a particular activity then adding choices can only be a good thing. Its actually funny how so many people seem to want the game to be so restrictive and fit their personal preferences alone.

Choice = subs
Subs = successful game.

Makkir

@Blackwidow

I am all for Dueling, I was referring to some of the other "features" you listed....aka Auction House...but lets not turn this discussion into an AH one.

Elf_Boy

LIke others I rarely if ever dual in any game. I know many enjoy being bale to do so.

In wow on more then one occasion I have had some idiot follow me around and repeatedly try to dual and send multiple /tell asking to dual. This can easily be a form of harassment if not carefully implemented.

SaibotLiu

Instead of /duel, why not /pvpflag on/off? If you flag yourself for pvp, you can be attacked by anyone who has also flagged themselves for PVP. Again, entirely optional, won't effect anyone who chooses not to do so.

Won't work for duelists, I'll tell you why. Exactly what other people have mentioned. /duel is used as an annoyance tool against low level or under-geared players whom the challenger has little or no chance to lose to. A way to strut and keep the epeen intact.

That alone is reason enough not to care for having it in game. Just grow some and ask for an open world PVP option then. You'll still be able to fight your friends, in quiet area, you'll also add PVP content for real PVPers who wish to use it. And more importantly, it's fun.

Not seeing the downside really, outside the small chance you could get killed and have your ego destroyed.

Longman

I don't like duell myself but I understand everybody who likes that. Other games had player organized duelling events and it is a way to spend some waiting time or just to have fun. So I say. why not?

Logan9a

I'd read they're going to make arenas.

I'd rather have people duel there than spam the areas (and myself) with duels, requests for duels and other stuff I personally don't care about.

Heck, I'd like it if they could magically televise the duels so that those who care about such things can watch them. Have leader boards and all that for those people. Have the winners get endorsed by products and appear in commercials saying how much they like the product or service.

But in general areas - no.

martinhpb16_ESO

Duelling is fun with guildies and buddies.

Its a good way to test your build and playstyle.

Its also fun to watch when you pass by and see a duel.

I would suport it if it were optional (it always is anyway).

but not in crafting areas / banks / AH oops etc.

Too many conservative naysayers in these forums

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

Simply yes. I dont duel one on one but dont see reason why not. If u think that option will reduce population in cyro - you are totaly wrong as far they will not balance builds and classes to please duelers - which they shouldnt.

Gaëloup

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Who cares if people want to duel? It doesn't effect you who dont at all. Just implement an option to ignore duels and that's it. Dueling is a great way in MMO's to learn how to not suck at pvp.

If you want to know how to not suck at pvp, play pvp.
Duel don't give the same conditions than a real pvp fight.

Hilgara

Gaëloup wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Who cares if people want to duel? It doesn't effect you who dont at all. Just implement an option to ignore duels and that's it. Dueling is a great way in MMO's to learn how to not suck at pvp.

If you want to know how to not suck at pvp, play pvp.
Duel don't give the same conditions than a real pvp fight.

PvP = Player V Player = duels
AvA = Alliance v Alliance = zergfest.

Duels best represent PvP to me.

Fuzzylumpkins

kaosodin wrote: »

There needs to be duels.

Also give me a server of full pvp every where except main citys

So you are describing world of warcraft. Maybe rethink your game choice

Fuzzylumpkins

Hilgara wrote: »

Gaëloup wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Who cares if people want to duel? It doesn't effect you who dont at all. Just implement an option to ignore duels and that's it. Dueling is a great way in MMO's to learn how to not suck at pvp.

If you want to know how to not suck at pvp, play pvp.
Duel don't give the same conditions than a real pvp fight.

PvP = Player V Player = duels
AvA = Alliance v Alliance = zergfest.

Duels best represent PvP to me.

Creating your own definitions does not make it correct.

PvP: any content in which any player can engage another player in combat.

Duels are a pointless waste of time that draw in a very specific personality that has the need to feel gratified with some sort of bragging right for participating in a completely consequence free and controlled combat. Much like arenas. You know when it is going to happen and against how many, you even get the heads up of knowing who your opponent is going to be.

Writing that out made me realise how utterly insignificant duels really are. Maybe ask for training dummies to beat on, it would be as relevant.

DeLindsay

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

Creating your own definitions does not make it correct.

PvP: any content in which any player can engage another player in combat.

Duels are a pointless waste of time that draw in a very specific personality that has the need to feel gratified with some sort of bragging right for participating in a completely consequence free and controlled combat. Much like arenas. You know when it is going to happen and against how many, you even get the heads up of knowing who your opponent is going to be.

Writing that out made me realise how utterly insignificant duels really are. Maybe ask for training dummies to beat on, it would be as relevant.

You are correct that PvP = any content in which any player engages another player in combat.

You couldn't be farther from the truth that Duels and Target dummies are insignificant or irrelevant. The MAIN purpose of duels is to fine tune your own build to better prepare yourself for PvP that matters, like in Cyro. It's a great way to learn how to beat different classes/builds, especially when it's against a friend/Guild member and you are both in Vent/TS/etc and talking about what to do against each other for best effect. Target dummies are specifically to learn how to hone one's DPS/HPS. Both might be pointless to YOU but they certainly hold value.

kevlarto_ESO

I do not waste my time doing duels, but I am not against them either for others, just as long as I can turn off the random duel invites, it gets to be a pain when players twice your level keep spamming duel invites, other than that for those that enjoy it have at it..:)

Hilgara

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

Duels are a pointless waste of time that draw in a very specific personality that has the need to feel gratified with some sort of bragging right for participating in a completely consequence free and controlled combat. Much like arenas. You know when it is going to happen and against how many, you even get the heads up of knowing who your opponent is going to be.

What a load of bull!
Duels help you work out counters for other classes. Most duelling happens between friends who want to improve their gameplay.

There is a lot of people here who seem to want to limit the game to their own ver specific requirements. That won't work as an MMO.

ALL MMO's have to cater for a wide verity of people who enjoy a wide verity of game play. You have to have stuff for the hardcore raiders, the l33t PvP'ers, the casual gamers, the RP'ers....

No one of these populations is enough to keep a MMO alive, especially not a sub charging MMO

Gaëloup

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Gaëloup wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Who cares if people want to duel? It doesn't effect you who dont at all. Just implement an option to ignore duels and that's it. Dueling is a great way in MMO's to learn how to not suck at pvp.

If you want to know how to not suck at pvp, play pvp.
Duel don't give the same conditions than a real pvp fight.

PvP = Player V Player = duels
AvA = Alliance v Alliance = zergfest.

Duels best represent PvP to me.

Creating your own definitions does not make it correct.

PvP: any content in which any player can engage another player in combat.

+1

SaibotLiu

You can't teach good. There are no numbers you can crunch that equates=I'm good. You can manipulate the system, you can optimize your build sure, that works well for duels. You can be a crack shot with a rifle and get straight rattled and lose your nerve when someone shoots back at you. You can be a great batting practice hitter or as I say a "3 oclock hitter" then when the lights go on at 7pm not do a damn thing. There's intangibles that you can't really teach someone, or learn, they just develop or they don't.

That's why duels will never be PVP. I've played a lot of MMO's and played with a lot of different player types, I've done duels, I've seen people who are good at duels. And the best duelists almost exclusively either abstain from real PVP or just arent very good at it. It takes repetition to get good at PVP that you can not get in duels. It takes reaction and abstract thinking and decision making on the fly that you will never hone from dueling. Rarely, if ever, will a duel situation present itself in PVP where your experience dueling will pay dividends in an actual PVP situation, I dunno maybe if the guy was AFK and the competition was who could kill him the fastest, maybe. it would pay off.

Dueling if anything, is just gonna mess you up when you try to PVP for real. They're not real fights, and they only vaguely resemble real fights. Not much point in it.

And sure, you can learn a little bit in a controlled environment. But next to the experience gained by the trial by fire and competing against players who want you dead, it's worthless. You may as well be spending time dueling doing some real PVP, its infinitely more beneficial.

emeraldbay

I can honestly see myself dueling more than participating in any sort of PvP in Cyrodiil, so yes, I'd love to see a duel function, given the aforementioned "auto ignore" feature is in place for people who don't want to participate, of course. And it would probably be best to make it so duels cannot happen in banks, crafting areas, or other congested places.