EP and AD are trading emp on Celarus. Calling all factions to help put a stop to this!

Zubba

MarisGolding wrote: »

Hi. I am emperor for EP I. Chrysamere. I just end posted yesterday about how I hate guesting so I'm going to sound like a huge hypocrit to my opponents, but this sounds like an actual reason for guesting. I will be glad to bring in my entire guild for the sole purpose of screwing with all of these people who defame the title. Speaking as someone who actually earned it, it think what's happening in Celarus is just sad. I'll talk to my people about coming in and raising hell. I could honestly care less how many people whisper me troll comments. If anyone from Celarus wants some law and order in cyrodill, just email me or friend me in game @MarisGolding

I will happily join in on this.

Affrayer

1nugam1 wrote: »

heh, call it pathetic all you want. It's not much different from people rerolling dunmer DK's as impulse spammers / casters in pve. People want those extra %

The difference there is: people don't exploit game mechanics.

1nugam1

Affrayer wrote: »

The difference there is people don't exploit game mechanics.

You can scream exploit at the top of your lungs all you want - it doesn't make it so until it's official. Have no more reason to defend myself than anyone else taking advantage of xp grinding/motif farming/fotm DK builds.

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

I think I'll just guest on Celarus and stop by there every time I pvp and ask in zone, "Who's farming emperor today and how can I screw them over?"

Zubba

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

I think I'll just guest on Celarus and stop by there every time I pvp and ask in zone, "Who's farming emperor today and how can I screw them over?"

Lets all guest Celarus to night

Affrayer

1nugam1 wrote: »

Affrayer wrote: »

The difference there is people don't exploit game mechanics.

You can scream exploit at the top of your lungs all you want - it doesn't make it so until it's official. Have no more reason to defend myself than anyone else taking advantage of xp grinding/motif farming/fotm DK builds.

So If I say, murdered someone...that's not a crime until I'm found guilty by a jury? That's the same logic you're applying here.

Let's take a look at what exploiting is.

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

Xp grinding/motif farming are apart of the game system by themselves which may or may not have been intended by the developers. Changes regarding these issues have also been made by the devs, indicating that they were not working as intended.

What the farmers are doing is different. They are manipulating working game mechanics (which would have been fine otherwise) to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else.

1nugam1

Affrayer wrote: »

So If I say, murdered someone...that's not a crime until I'm found guilty by a jury? That's the same logic you're applying here.

Let's take a look at what exploiting is.

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

Xp grinding/motif farming are apart of the game system by themselves which may or may not have been intended by the developers. Changes regarding these issues have also been made by the devs, indicating that they were not working as intended.

What the farmers are doing is different. They are manipulating working game mechanics (which would have been fine otherwise) to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else.

Again with the comparison 'video games vs. real life' .. I thought we were done with that one. You simply can't compare them in this sense. I will not elaborate on that matter.

Emperor farming is a grey area. As you said about xp grinding and motif farming, it's part of the game. Intended or not by the developers it's there.

The tools are there for the farmers, why would they not use them to their advantage?

''The farmers are manipulating working game mechanics to benefit themselves at the expense of others'' - Yes, people pay to play this game, obviously they want benefits for themselves if it's within reach. At the expense of others you say? who? The server is so underpopulated that without these 'farmers' not a single imperial keep would be taken without an immense struggle.. Some individuals will try to get you in on the 'farming' and express themselves in an unacceptable fashion if you ruin their plans.

Then again the same applies to 90 day campaigns. You'll get yelled at if you don't ''play the map'' so to speak(farming AP at a bridge for example).

I've even experienced people yelling at me for undercutting them in zonechat when selling items.

Zubba

I still say we all guest Celarus to night! This could be the most fun so far in ESO :-)

bruceb14_ESO5

Guest in Celarus and play straight up, not a bad idea.

1nugam1

Good luck finding opposition(depending on your faction)

Zubba

The opposition will be the farmers. If theres noone there then fine.

Dleatherus

1nugam1 wrote: »

Good luck finding opposition(depending on your faction)

actually the fighting was awesome last night - looking forward to more today

D.

leewells

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

1nugam1 wrote: »

heh, call it pathetic all you want. It's not much different from people rerolling dunmer DK's as impulse spammers / casters in pve. People want those extra %

You obviously farmed and traded for Emperor. You've gained a few percentage points in passives at the expense of the respect of nearly every pvper in the game.

Pardon me if the respect from an impulse/standard/talon spammer is taken with a grain of salt. While I refuse to exploit any mechanic in the game, I don't believe that having your guild login when an enemy emp is crowned to take it back and then logging off again is an exploit in any way. If you think so, then ban every guild that has a guild mate go, "I'm in line for emp on XXXX server, everyone come help me get a crown!" and the guild helps. Caltrops -- that was an exploit; a mechanic that was obviously unintended, Zenimax INTENDED for emperorship to bounce back and forth. The ONLY reason the servers actually reset scores is to give other people a chance at emperor -- and guess what? They're removing ALL 90 day campaigns and only adding ONE 30 day campaign. Guess why that is.....

Dleatherus

caltrops was an exploit and they didn't ban anybody for that either

the base logic for your point is flawed

and whereas keeps are intended to be captured and recaptured. it was never intended to trade them between alliances uncontested as you guys are doing it,per a pre launch video interview with paul sage

they specifically made it that you get more AP for defending vs attacking a keep to discourage it - the 'former emperor' sparklies have blinded some the the truth of the exploit it seems

D.

thelg

Going to guest tonight to screw with this scum. It reminds me rolling up the "duelers" in daoc ah the sweet tears.

Seriously those tells and zone spam from morons is joy. best reward in a pvp game by far

Huckdabuck

leewells wrote: »

While I refuse to exploit any mechanic in the game, I don't believe that having your guild login when an enemy emp is crowned to take it back and then logging off again is an exploit in any way. If you think so, then ban every guild that has a guild mate go, "I'm in line for emp on XXXX server, everyone come help me get a crown!" and the guild helps. Caltrops -- that was an exploit; a mechanic that was obviously unintended, Zenimax INTENDED for emperorship to bounce back and forth. The ONLY reason the servers actually reset scores is to give other people a chance at emperor -- and guess what? They're removing ALL 90 day campaigns and only adding ONE 30 day campaign. Guess why that is.....

Because they think no one wants to do a full 90 days on an empty campaign?

Also I'm just going to go ahead and say it....you're EXPLOITING by doing this. So as all addicts learn in recovery....first you need to admit you have a problem (ie farming emperor title)...then you can recover and move forward with your life. Alas it's your life and your logic so doubtful anyone can talk any sense into you concerning the issue.

Note to Zenimax - Emperor was a grand idea but it probably needs to be evaluated and restructured due to these kinds of activities. Plenty of ideas concerning how you can improve and implement any changes that are deemed appropriate.

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

leewells wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

1nugam1 wrote: »

heh, call it pathetic all you want. It's not much different from people rerolling dunmer DK's as impulse spammers / casters in pve. People want those extra %

You obviously farmed and traded for Emperor. You've gained a few percentage points in passives at the expense of the respect of nearly every pvper in the game.

Pardon me if the respect from an impulse/standard/talon spammer is taken with a grain of salt. While I refuse to exploit any mechanic in the game, I don't believe that having your guild login when an enemy emp is crowned to take it back and then logging off again is an exploit in any way. If you think so, then ban every guild that has a guild mate go, "I'm in line for emp on XXXX server, everyone come help me get a crown!" and the guild helps. Caltrops -- that was an exploit; a mechanic that was obviously unintended, Zenimax INTENDED for emperorship to bounce back and forth. The ONLY reason the servers actually reset scores is to give other people a chance at emperor -- and guess what? They're removing ALL 90 day campaigns and only adding ONE 30 day campaign. Guess why that is.....

You seem to be in denial of what is happening in NA Celarus. The two factions, yellow and red, are collaborating together to exchange the eight keeps in orderly fashion to crown their own people emperors as quickly and efficiently as possible. There is no "Oh, hey guild mates come help me get emperor tonight, we'll totally have a good night of pvp!" There is only "Hey guys, take all of blue's keeps and don't repair. Let red take them quickly so we can flip them after."

Agrippa_Invisus

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

1nugam1 wrote: »

heh, call it pathetic all you want. It's not much different from people rerolling dunmer DK's as impulse spammers / casters in pve. People want those extra %

You obviously farmed and traded for Emperor. You've gained a few percentage points in passives at the expense of the respect of nearly every pvper in the game.

Pardon me if the respect from an impulse/standard/talon spammer is taken with a grain of salt. While I refuse to exploit any mechanic in the game, I don't believe that having your guild login when an enemy emp is crowned to take it back and then logging off again is an exploit in any way. If you think so, then ban every guild that has a guild mate go, "I'm in line for emp on XXXX server, everyone come help me get a crown!" and the guild helps. Caltrops -- that was an exploit; a mechanic that was obviously unintended, Zenimax INTENDED for emperorship to bounce back and forth. The ONLY reason the servers actually reset scores is to give other people a chance at emperor -- and guess what? They're removing ALL 90 day campaigns and only adding ONE 30 day campaign. Guess why that is.....

You seem to be in denial of what is happening in NA Celarus. The two factions, yellow and red, are collaborating together to exchange the eight keeps in orderly fashion to crown their own people emperors as quickly and efficiently as possible. There is no "Oh, hey guild mates come help me get emperor tonight, we'll totally have a good night of pvp!" There is only "Hey guys, take all of blue's keeps and don't repair. Let red take them quickly so we can flip them after."

It's no better than kill trading -- the classic exploit of colluding with a faction to let them trade kills back and forth at a scheduled time/place to rank up RP/AP/Honor/Whatever System that Game Uses.

In DAoC they banhammered anyone suspected of doing it, for good reason.

Gornt_Grimreaver

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

1nugam1 wrote: »

heh, call it pathetic all you want. It's not much different from people rerolling dunmer DK's as impulse spammers / casters in pve. People want those extra %

You obviously farmed and traded for Emperor. You've gained a few percentage points in passives at the expense of the respect of nearly every pvper in the game.

Pardon me if the respect from an impulse/standard/talon spammer is taken with a grain of salt. While I refuse to exploit any mechanic in the game, I don't believe that having your guild login when an enemy emp is crowned to take it back and then logging off again is an exploit in any way. If you think so, then ban every guild that has a guild mate go, "I'm in line for emp on XXXX server, everyone come help me get a crown!" and the guild helps. Caltrops -- that was an exploit; a mechanic that was obviously unintended, Zenimax INTENDED for emperorship to bounce back and forth. The ONLY reason the servers actually reset scores is to give other people a chance at emperor -- and guess what? They're removing ALL 90 day campaigns and only adding ONE 30 day campaign. Guess why that is.....

You seem to be in denial of what is happening in NA Celarus. The two factions, yellow and red, are collaborating together to exchange the eight keeps in orderly fashion to crown their own people emperors as quickly and efficiently as possible. There is no "Oh, hey guild mates come help me get emperor tonight, we'll totally have a good night of pvp!" There is only "Hey guys, take all of blue's keeps and don't repair. Let red take them quickly so we can flip them after."

It's no better than kill trading -- the classic exploit of colluding with a faction to let them trade kills back and forth at a scheduled time/place to rank up RP/AP/Honor/Whatever System that Game Uses.

In DAoC they banhammered anyone suspected of doing it, for good reason.

This must have happened MUCH later on DOAC, hence the term Hibguard....

Agrippa_Invisus

Gornt_Grimreaver wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

leewells wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

1nugam1 wrote: »

heh, call it pathetic all you want. It's not much different from people rerolling dunmer DK's as impulse spammers / casters in pve. People want those extra %

You obviously farmed and traded for Emperor. You've gained a few percentage points in passives at the expense of the respect of nearly every pvper in the game.

Pardon me if the respect from an impulse/standard/talon spammer is taken with a grain of salt. While I refuse to exploit any mechanic in the game, I don't believe that having your guild login when an enemy emp is crowned to take it back and then logging off again is an exploit in any way. If you think so, then ban every guild that has a guild mate go, "I'm in line for emp on XXXX server, everyone come help me get a crown!" and the guild helps. Caltrops -- that was an exploit; a mechanic that was obviously unintended, Zenimax INTENDED for emperorship to bounce back and forth. The ONLY reason the servers actually reset scores is to give other people a chance at emperor -- and guess what? They're removing ALL 90 day campaigns and only adding ONE 30 day campaign. Guess why that is.....

You seem to be in denial of what is happening in NA Celarus. The two factions, yellow and red, are collaborating together to exchange the eight keeps in orderly fashion to crown their own people emperors as quickly and efficiently as possible. There is no "Oh, hey guild mates come help me get emperor tonight, we'll totally have a good night of pvp!" There is only "Hey guys, take all of blue's keeps and don't repair. Let red take them quickly so we can flip them after."

It's no better than kill trading -- the classic exploit of colluding with a faction to let them trade kills back and forth at a scheduled time/place to rank up RP/AP/Honor/Whatever System that Game Uses.

In DAoC they banhammered anyone suspected of doing it, for good reason.

This must have happened MUCH later on DOAC, hence the term Hibguard....

Early on, actually. I was a pre-TOA player (quit with that Xpack because it was turrible). Several infamous radar users and kill traders on Percival ate a ban to the face during my playtime. They lost their way with ToA and later.

thelg

Thats actually one of the type of players they really did suspend quite a bit. I knew a few special kids that did it and got 1 week suspension. Then people also started to come over and roll the whole pile of them regularly so it died out. Till people started scheduling 8vs8 on irc, but that was somewhat different since typically you did not just rez and fight over and over again.

Gisgo

Affrayer wrote: »

Early on, actually. I was a pre-TOA player (quit with that Xpack because it was turrible). Several infamous radar users and kill traders on Percival ate a ban to the face during my playtime. They lost their way with ToA and later.

I can confirm Mythic didnt like this kind of *** and several top radar... i mean top players suddenly disappeared after every ban wave.

Agrippa_Invisus

Gisgo wrote: »

Affrayer wrote: »

Early on, actually. I was a pre-TOA player (quit with that Xpack because it was turrible). Several infamous radar users and kill traders on Percival ate a ban to the face during my playtime. They lost their way with ToA and later.

I can confirm Mythic didnt like this kind of *** and several top radar... i mean top players suddenly disappeared after every ban wave.

Yup. Mythic GMs would sit and spawn 'Lurikeen <Insert Title>' and sit it inside a tree or a rock. Legit players couldn't see it and would walk right past. Radar users would zoom towards it and be banned before they even figured out why they were staring at 'You have been disconnected from the server.' messages.

Guy named Rayn on Percival got hit hard by that one. He spent hours protesting it on the old IGN forums, but eventually a GM posted the video of it happening and his protesting was done. All the people trying to support him slinked away.

Gisgo

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Yup. Mythic GMs would sit and spawn 'Lurikeen <Insert Title>' and sit it inside a tree or a rock.

Lmao i thought they were using god only knows what kind of complex algorithm...
A keen inside a tree

Affrayer

1nugam1 wrote: »

Affrayer wrote: »

So If I say, murdered someone...that's not a crime until I'm found guilty by a jury? That's the same logic you're applying here.

Let's take a look at what exploiting is.

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

Xp grinding/motif farming are apart of the game system by themselves which may or may not have been intended by the developers. Changes regarding these issues have also been made by the devs, indicating that they were not working as intended.

What the farmers are doing is different. They are manipulating working game mechanics (which would have been fine otherwise) to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else.

Again with the comparison 'video games vs. real life' .. I thought we were done with that one. You simply can't compare them in this sense. I will not elaborate on that matter.

Emperor farming is a grey area. As you said about xp grinding and motif farming, it's part of the game. Intended or not by the developers it's there.

The tools are there for the farmers, why would they not use them to their advantage?

''The farmers are manipulating working game mechanics to benefit themselves at the expense of others'' - Yes, people pay to play this game, obviously they want benefits for themselves if it's within reach. At the expense of others you say? who? The server is so underpopulated that without these 'farmers' not a single imperial keep would be taken without an immense struggle.. Some individuals will try to get you in on the 'farming' and express themselves in an unacceptable fashion if you ruin their plans.

Then again the same applies to 90 day campaigns. You'll get yelled at if you don't ''play the map'' so to speak(farming AP at a bridge for example).

I've even experienced people yelling at me for undercutting them in zonechat when selling items.

"Again with the comparison 'video games vs. real life' .. I thought we were done with that one. You simply can't compare them in this sense. I will not elaborate on that matter."

Again this isn't a comparison of 'video game vs. real life.' It's an observation of your flawed logic.

-You state: "If zos doesn't come out and say it's an exploit, then it's not an exploit."

An exploit stops being an exploit unless the developers say it is so? Last I checked trading keeps between alliances uncontested wasn't intended.

Agrippa_Invisus

Affrayer wrote: »

1nugam1 wrote: »

Affrayer wrote: »

So If I say, murdered someone...that's not a crime until I'm found guilty by a jury? That's the same logic you're applying here.

Let's take a look at what exploiting is.

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

Xp grinding/motif farming are apart of the game system by themselves which may or may not have been intended by the developers. Changes regarding these issues have also been made by the devs, indicating that they were not working as intended.

What the farmers are doing is different. They are manipulating working game mechanics (which would have been fine otherwise) to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else.

Again with the comparison 'video games vs. real life' .. I thought we were done with that one. You simply can't compare them in this sense. I will not elaborate on that matter.

Emperor farming is a grey area. As you said about xp grinding and motif farming, it's part of the game. Intended or not by the developers it's there.

The tools are there for the farmers, why would they not use them to their advantage?

''The farmers are manipulating working game mechanics to benefit themselves at the expense of others'' - Yes, people pay to play this game, obviously they want benefits for themselves if it's within reach. At the expense of others you say? who? The server is so underpopulated that without these 'farmers' not a single imperial keep would be taken without an immense struggle.. Some individuals will try to get you in on the 'farming' and express themselves in an unacceptable fashion if you ruin their plans.

Then again the same applies to 90 day campaigns. You'll get yelled at if you don't ''play the map'' so to speak(farming AP at a bridge for example).

I've even experienced people yelling at me for undercutting them in zonechat when selling items.

"Again with the comparison 'video games vs. real life' .. I thought we were done with that one. You simply can't compare them in this sense. I will not elaborate on that matter."

Again this isn't a comparison of 'video game vs. real life.' It's an observation of your flawed logic.

-You state: "If zos doesn't come out and say it's an exploit, then it's not an exploit."

An exploit stops being an exploit unless the developers say it is so? Last I checked trading keeps between alliances uncontested wasn't intended.

Remember, this is about damage control on the exploiter's part. Just trying to hold the pitchforks and torches off long enough to swap emperor enough to get through everyone participating in the whole affair.

It's not about the truth anymore.

thelg

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

Yup. Mythic GMs would sit and spawn 'Lurikeen <Insert Title>' and sit it inside a tree or a rock. Legit players couldn't see it and would walk right past. Radar users would zoom towards it and be banned before they even figured out why they were staring at 'You have been disconnected from the server.' messages.

Guy named Rayn on Percival got hit hard by that one. He spent hours protesting it on the old IGN forums, but eventually a GM posted the video of it happening and his protesting was done. All the people trying to support him slinked away.

I think I remember that drama, wish those forums were still accessible/searchable somewhere.

1nugam1

@Affrayer‌

It's not a comparison between video games vs. real life? Then why do you continue to mislead me with absurd real life scenarios you picture me in and how you think I'd act as a person? A person you've never met or hardly know jack' about.

Flawed logic, exploiting. You can call it whatever you like. I do not have to agree with you.

@Agrippa_Invisus‌

What truth is it you seek?

Affrayer

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Remember, this is about damage control on the exploiter's part. Just trying to hold the pitchforks and torches off long enough to swap emperor enough to get through everyone participating in the whole affair.

It's not about the truth anymore.

You're right of course.

I realize arguing with said person(s) gives them some credibility whereas they have none. I should probably ignore them and deprive them of the attention they so desperately seek.

ThreeEyedCrow

Easy fix.

Remove the Passive Former Emperor skill entirely. Its only active for when you are Active Emperor.

Then if anyone wants to farm for a title and Costume, cool, go for it!

----

Why not just make a thread asking for changes that cause this behavior.

The economic reality is if the Former Emperor skill line is good, and there is a way to farm it, then people will farm it.

Its silly to turn this into a moral argument.

ZoS just needs to deactivate the Emperor skill line if you are not a current Emperor.

Simple, easy all problems solved.