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Should clasess be taken out in the near future ?
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Lodestar✭✭✭✭No I don't want ZOS to take out classes (I want to keep classes as they are)If they took away classes, then how would people be able to complain about who's OP when we'll all be the same class?
Unhappy gamers want/need to be happy being unhappy; or is it happy gamers need/want to be unhappy being happy....
Dagnabbit! Now I'm all confused.
That is easy. Complain about the skill lines and abilities. Happens in other classless MMOs.
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Urmi✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)
You said *Passives* Never said anything about adding more bars and slots lol
Edited by Urmi on May 28, 2014 12:53PM1 -
Crisscross✭✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)I understand certain classes may have real problems. And pointing them out or asking the developers to fix them is perfectly understandable. But please stop with this balance nonsense. Because the whole point of different classes is to provide imbalances between different characters so the player can use these strengths to their advantage.
Not exactly. The term you're looking for is asymmetry. Starcraft is an example of a game with asymmetrical balance. Battlefield is an example of a game with symmetrical balance. Just FYI on the semantics. When people ask for balance, they're asking for fairness, not sameness. I don't think anyone wants ESO to have symmetrical balance.0 -
Urmi✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)david271749 wrote: »david271749 wrote: »I don't understand how removing classes would add more variety to the game. Unless you mean to say just make all of the class skill lines available to everyone? I'm not sure.
Anyway - to those complaining about balance. I am growing tired of this word.
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Life isn't balanced. Video games aren't either. The only way you are going to have a perfect balance between classes is if you gave everyone the exact same skills and attributes - which would make for an extremely boring game.
Either you are having fun playing your class or you aren't. That's what matters. Everyone doesn't need to have the same DPS for example else the game is broken or this class or that class is OP. I have seen this mentality obliterate the gameplay on so many games other games that I am becoming frustrated with it.
I understand certain classes may have real problems. And pointing them out or asking the developers to fix them is perfectly understandable. But please stop with this balance nonsense. Because the whole point of different classes is to provide imbalances between different characters so the player can use these strengths to their advantage.
Yes take out the classes and make everything readily available for anyone to pick and choose as they please and eventually maybe add more skill lines in the future
It's an interesting idea.
Perhaps they could give each class their own guild and allow players to join them in order to make those skill lines available.
That would be a cool idea. You'd be limited to five in game guilds and five player guilds. That way, you couldn't grab all the passives available.
I don't agree on the limit of 5 in game guilds limit lol then you're still limited
So, where do you draw the line? Should we get more ability slots and bars too? Should we not have skill points at all and just have access to everything? What is your idea of a perfect character system?
Well you said *Passives* I was never talking about ability's and adding new bars , just more choices on attacks to choose from and passives
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david271749✭✭✭✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)I'm not trying to argue, OP. What is your idea of a perfect character system?0 -
Urmi✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)david271749 wrote: »I'm not trying to argue, OP. What is your idea of a perfect character system?
The choice to pick and choose from any skill line whether it be *Conjuring/Alteration/Dual-Wield/Restoration.. Etc* you should be able to choose from anything and pick what you want at any given time to make the character you want just like Skyrim , Morrowind , Oblivion ... Whats wrong with that
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Asasinka✭✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)Those voting no are aparently mostly afraid that they'll loose their OP'd build and will finaly become a target of someone else, what, on top of getting not fun for them, is the way it should be played because only that way it will cease to be build dependent and become skill dependent. I want be competitive with every weapon / armor combination and depend more on strategicaly invested skill points into complementary skills and fast reactions to situation in combat.
Then it will finaly become fun for everyone, not just those who chose systematicaly OP'd builds and have fun of killing everyone else within a second. It tells nothing about skill.I'm fighting for a higher purpose7 -
Urmi✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)Those voting no are aparently mostly afraid that they'll loose their OP'd build and will finaly become a target of someone else, what, on top of getting not fun for them, is the way it should be played because only that way it will cease to be build dependent and become skill dependent. I want be competitive with every weapon / armor combination and depend more on strategicaly invested skill points into complementary skills and fast reactions to situation in combat.
Then it will finaly become fun for everyone, not just those who chose systematicaly OP'd builds and have fun of killing everyone else within a second. It tells nothing about skill.
Sounds just about right honestly , People don't like change & people don't like to play fair and also a majority of the population in game doesn't know how to theory craft and have some fun its impossible they must have a cookie cutter wow class LOL
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crisscross wrote: »I understand certain classes may have real problems. And pointing them out or asking the developers to fix them is perfectly understandable. But please stop with this balance nonsense. Because the whole point of different classes is to provide imbalances between different characters so the player can use these strengths to their advantage.
Not exactly. The term you're looking for is asymmetry. Starcraft is an example of a game with asymmetrical balance. Battlefield is an example of a game with symmetrical balance. Just FYI on the semantics. When people ask for balance, they're asking for fairness, not sameness. I don't think anyone wants ESO to have symmetrical balance.
I disagree. For example: I listened to the griping for years on WoW how certain classes had lower dps than others and how unfair that was. It was a question of wanting to be able to do the same damage as other classes. So I am not seeing this difference in fairness and sameness that you are describing.
This kind of thinking has almost completely wiped out the support class in modern MMORPGs as well. Which has annoyed me quite a bit.
So in my opinion, as long as the class can be successful and is fun to play that's all that matters. There is no need for them to be equal to other classes in terms of dps or anything else.
Edited by Jeremy on May 28, 2014 1:10PM0 -
DireKit✭✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)Free-form character builds? Yes. We'd love this.
It's about the only thing that made Champions Online worthwhile.1 -
Asasinka✭✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)What dissapointed me about the classes was that you actually CAN'T play a warrior, or a mage, or a rogue.
Rogue:
You can't be the usual daggers wielder rogue because ALL your spells doesn't require any weapons, they not only cost mana making any sense but when you use your assassin spells you cast a red magical dagger?
^^ that
If only I could give you 100 agrees
I'm fighting for a higher purpose1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭No I don't want ZOS to take out classes (I want to keep classes as they are)Tannakaobi wrote: »If you remove the classes everyone becomes the same min/max character. PVP would be ruined further.
Not really , the game already kinda has a balance , its the amount of Magicka/Health/Stamina , then on top of that it can be balanced further , and ! There are already people doing the Min/Max so whats the difference ?
The difference is that now you have 4 options for a min/max, no need to take away from that.
I don't disagree that PVP needs work in other area's. Personally I think the weapon skills should be brought more in line with the class skills in terms of power. That would really open things up.
I say add a couple more classes. Add a couple more general skill lines and improve the weapon skills to be as good as the class skills.
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Ezrith✭✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)I think ESO should be without classes and with many skill lines to choose from. The classes seems to restrict the builds we can make (3 lines per class). I would have more fun in ESO with real freedom.3 -
brisingr90✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)a BIG YES from me. "Play the Way You Like" That is the spirit of this game isn't it?2 -
Urmi✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »If you remove the classes everyone becomes the same min/max character. PVP would be ruined further.
Not really , the game already kinda has a balance , its the amount of Magicka/Health/Stamina , then on top of that it can be balanced further , and ! There are already people doing the Min/Max so whats the difference ?
The difference is that now you have 4 options for a min/max, no need to take away from that.
I don't disagree that PVP needs work in other area's. Personally I think the weapon skills should be brought more in line with the class skills in terms of power. That would really open things up.
I say add a couple more classes. Add a couple more general skill lines and improve the weapon skills to be as good as the class skills.
/Sighs at classes its a old thing of the past that needs to be flushed down the toilet with WoW, its old , we need something new and this is a great way to start0 -
ArRashid✭✭✭✭No I don't want ZOS to take out classes (I want to keep classes as they are)Tannakaobi wrote: »If you remove the classes everyone becomes the same min/max character. PVP would be ruined further.
Not really , the game already kinda has a balance , its the amount of Magicka/Health/Stamina , then on top of that it can be balanced further , and ! There are already people doing the Min/Max so whats the difference ?
because 1/4 people respeccing to best build is still better than ALL of them. But since NB and templar are really lacking so far, some people ALREADY rerolled, rather than being killed every 10 minutes with class that can only perform in 1vs1 PvP situations.. and have little to zero chance on dealing with a pack of VR mobs or most elites
I'm adamant on this subject. If they remove classes, this game will turn into CounterStrike. Because even better shooters have CLASSES.1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭No I don't want ZOS to take out classes (I want to keep classes as they are)Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »If you remove the classes everyone becomes the same min/max character. PVP would be ruined further.
Not really , the game already kinda has a balance , its the amount of Magicka/Health/Stamina , then on top of that it can be balanced further , and ! There are already people doing the Min/Max so whats the difference ?
The difference is that now you have 4 options for a min/max, no need to take away from that.
I don't disagree that PVP needs work in other area's. Personally I think the weapon skills should be brought more in line with the class skills in terms of power. That would really open things up.
I say add a couple more classes. Add a couple more general skill lines and improve the weapon skills to be as good as the class skills.
/Sighs at classes its a old thing of the past that needs to be flushed down the toilet with WoW, its old , we need something new and this is a great way to start
But this system is new, it's neither classes or no classes. It's direction with options.
If you opened up all the skill lines you would actually be taking away options. As each class has over powered skills and you would need them all to compete.
Imagine the crit. bonus from the ND's stealth with the hardest hit from the DK with the escape of Bolt and then the sun beams from the temp, then repeat. It would take a little more thought but there is the problem. Weapon skills would become even more useless.
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Urmi✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)Tannakaobi wrote: »If you remove the classes everyone becomes the same min/max character. PVP would be ruined further.
Not really , the game already kinda has a balance , its the amount of Magicka/Health/Stamina , then on top of that it can be balanced further , and ! There are already people doing the Min/Max so whats the difference ?
because 1/4 people respeccing to best build is still better than ALL of them. But since NB and templar are really lacking so far, some people ALREADY rerolled, rather than being killed every 10 minutes with class that can only perform in 1vs1 PvP situations.. and have little to zero chance on dealing with a pack of VR mobs or most elites
I'm adamant on this subject. If they remove classes, this game will turn into CounterStrike. Because even better shooters have CLASSES.
Sounds like a pile of crap that either currently needs to be balanced or taken out completely , not going to reroll because people say you have to
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Urmi✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »If you remove the classes everyone becomes the same min/max character. PVP would be ruined further.
Not really , the game already kinda has a balance , its the amount of Magicka/Health/Stamina , then on top of that it can be balanced further , and ! There are already people doing the Min/Max so whats the difference ?
The difference is that now you have 4 options for a min/max, no need to take away from that.
I don't disagree that PVP needs work in other area's. Personally I think the weapon skills should be brought more in line with the class skills in terms of power. That would really open things up.
I say add a couple more classes. Add a couple more general skill lines and improve the weapon skills to be as good as the class skills.
/Sighs at classes its a old thing of the past that needs to be flushed down the toilet with WoW, its old , we need something new and this is a great way to start
But this system is new, it's neither classes or no classes. It's direction with options.
If you opened up all the skill lines you would actually be taking away options. As each class has over powered skills and you would need them all to compete.
Imagine the crit. bonus from the ND's stealth with the hardest hit from the DK with the escape of Bolt and then the sun beams from the temp, then repeat. It would take a little more thought but there is the problem. Weapon skills would become even more useless.
Take out the Passives that are over powered and put in different ones maybe more for CCS or maybe longer times instead of major crit bonuses or damage bonuses
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭No I don't want ZOS to take out classes (I want to keep classes as they are)Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »If you remove the classes everyone becomes the same min/max character. PVP would be ruined further.
Not really , the game already kinda has a balance , its the amount of Magicka/Health/Stamina , then on top of that it can be balanced further , and ! There are already people doing the Min/Max so whats the difference ?
The difference is that now you have 4 options for a min/max, no need to take away from that.
I don't disagree that PVP needs work in other area's. Personally I think the weapon skills should be brought more in line with the class skills in terms of power. That would really open things up.
I say add a couple more classes. Add a couple more general skill lines and improve the weapon skills to be as good as the class skills.
/Sighs at classes its a old thing of the past that needs to be flushed down the toilet with WoW, its old , we need something new and this is a great way to start
But this system is new, it's neither classes or no classes. It's direction with options.
If you opened up all the skill lines you would actually be taking away options. As each class has over powered skills and you would need them all to compete.
Imagine the crit. bonus from the ND's stealth with the hardest hit from the DK with the escape of Bolt and then the sun beams from the temp, then repeat. It would take a little more thought but there is the problem. Weapon skills would become even more useless.
Take out the Passives that are over powered and put in different ones maybe more for CCS or maybe longer times instead of major crit bonuses or damage bonuses
But that would be changing the entire game. I like the idea of a classless game the same as a level-less game, but it's too late for ESO to go down that route. Now they should make the best of what they have done.
i.e. add more skills more classes and improve the stamina based skills.
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Lodestar✭✭✭✭No I don't want ZOS to take out classes (I want to keep classes as they are)Those voting no are aparently mostly afraid that they'll loose their OP'd build and will finaly become a target of someone else, what, on top of getting not fun for them, is the way it should be played because only that way it will cease to be build dependent and become skill dependent. I want be competitive with every weapon / armor combination and depend more on strategicaly invested skill points into complementary skills and fast reactions to situation in combat.
Then it will finaly become fun for everyone, not just those who chose systematicaly OP'd builds and have fun of killing everyone else within a second. It tells nothing about skill.
I am a dual wielding NB. We are certainly not OP.2 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭No I don't want ZOS to take out classes (I want to keep classes as they are)Those voting no are aparently mostly afraid that they'll loose their OP'd build and will finaly become a target of someone else, what, on top of getting not fun for them, is the way it should be played because only that way it will cease to be build dependent and become skill dependent. I want be competitive with every weapon / armor combination and depend more on strategicaly invested skill points into complementary skills and fast reactions to situation in combat.
Then it will finaly become fun for everyone, not just those who chose systematicaly OP'd builds and have fun of killing everyone else within a second. It tells nothing about skill.
I am a dual wielding NB. We are certainly not OP.
Aye, I'm a 2H NB, again, hardly op!
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Aballister✭✭✭No I don't want ZOS to take out classes (I want to keep classes as they are)I'll have to go with keep them on this poll, only because I think balance would be impossble with a complely free for all system.Dark Elf Sorc(AD)0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ian.freybourgerb16_ESO wrote: »I'll have to go with keep them on this poll, only because I think balance would be impossble with a complely free for all system.
Balance is impossible anyway. Might as well make the game more fun.
Also: I should point out by allowing players to visit skill lines in other classes it could actually help assist in the exposition of blatantly over-powered abilities where they exists - since they would be more widespread as a result. So in a way it might actually help in that regard.
Edited by Jeremy on May 28, 2014 1:31PM0 -
Urmi✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)*Bump* Think about it before you vote0
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Asasinka✭✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)Ok, sorry to those who feel accused with my statement but as I said, mostly, not all of those who voted no
I'm 2H NB also and I'm not satisfied with those skills using mana, either discard them with some meaningful using stamina or open up all the skill trees to everyone.I'm fighting for a higher purpose1 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Yes I want classes to be taken out (I want more variety)david271749 wrote: »Nazon_Katts wrote: »And while we're at it, bring back pre-Skyrim character attributes, gain SP through skill usage and level by acquiring them. Stat increase, based on three most used/highest skill-lines, should be static, however, otherwise we'd end up with a way too big gap between players and some seriously gimped characters.
Yeah. Nobody would craft on their main.
Exactly. Well, unless your main happens to be a cratfter, of course."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"1 -
Lovely✭✭✭Hmmm... I never thought removing classes was an option.
I guess that would be somewhat unique... but not sure what would happen, I think it would kill replayability completely... I'm leaning to no, but don't have a strong enough argument so I'll hold my vote.0 -
Vuron✭✭✭✭✭No I don't want ZOS to take out classes (I want to keep classes as they are)I like the classes even though I play a Nightblade.
I don't think, realistically, that this is something that could be done any time soon. They can't balance the classes, now, and there is no way they'd be able to balance combat by opening up the other skill lines to every character. There are just too many combinations that would break the game.
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