Dear ZOS - veteran levels are killing ESO. Please wake up to this.

Tankqull

Sakiri wrote: »

I have a friends list.

Problem is, 90% of them haven't logged in in about 3 weeks on average.

and the reason is this game is a freaking singleplayergame - how often do you replay a singlepalyer game once your done or at a point where you cant realy progress anymore? exactly you don´t atleast for one or two years.

the questing system highly discourages grouping thanks to phasing issues and quests beeing not made for grouping e.g. made a questboss with a guildmember when we killed the boss i was kicked from the quest dungeon did not recieve the queststep and had to solo that f4cking boss on my own wich i tryed to circumvent from beginning by grouping as for me beeing a healer it was a hell of a fight(took 30mins of try and error and 30+soulgems. but my guildmate thanks to phasing wasn´t allowed to help me now.

mmo´s do live from the fact of having player interaction, and group content as that is the only reason to come back and play any game - spend some time with comrades doing sth together. while you were forced to do nearly 99% of the game solo till craglorn...
if i want to chat with my friends i do not need an optical surface skype, mumble,TS or what ever would be more than enough and won´t cost me 13€/£/$ monthly fees...

infraction2008b16_ESO

sajackson wrote: »

Most people can accept that bosses should be more challenging. The problem is that some of the VR trash mobs also seem to have boss-like difficulty and that isn't fun. The reason you don't want that in trash mobs is because, by definition, trash mobs need to be cleared and often in large quantities. If killing the trash requires extensive use of CC, positioning and survivability skills then it just becomes a big turn off - people don't mind saving some strategy for the big boss in a quest chain or instance but it gets tedious if you have to do it for every single piece of trash you encounter.

The reason why VR trash mobs tough to solo is that they are not balanced for solo play, but for duo's if anything as they actually feel right to play if you're teamed up with someone, they can be done solo but it's very easy to mess up. However this is not convenient for run of the mill side quests, for dungeons/dolmens/bosses and even delves yes grouping is fun but seriously who wants to group to do some stupid collect 12 turds quest?

My point is of course they should make content challenging and maybe require some help from a friend, but not every single mob or bit of content needs to be... just things like bosses, dungeons and important quest stages.

Khuul99

AlexanderTheGreat wrote: »

4. You realize the more people that leave the more likely this game will go F2P? F2P games have the worst communities.

The problem here is that the game makes it very hard to build said communities.

Grouping content gives seriously bad experience unless you just rush through it (because it's too easy).

The social aspects are also bad.
There is no easy way to even recognise a player just running by or that helped you during a fight (nameplates should be an option and a way found to work around the pvp issues created by those).
There is no way to recognise a guild, so what's the point in trying to be a guild if noone can recognise it (Nameplates should be an option here as well)?

The 5 guild per toon and them being account wide is also just a big fail imo. The megaserver just came and bit the community in the ass as well because you have to allow cross alliance toons on the same server then, which is a silly thing in my opinion.
Not only will it create unbalanced RvR, people will just switch side as soon as it starts going the little bit rough it also hinders the "sides" from forming any sense of community.

Ardeni

I never liked the veteran ranks idea. I don't really mind redoing the other alliance zones, I find that rather nice actually, but the boring part is the leveling. It is not that having fun is only possible at the maximum level, but rather the fact that I just don't want to create any legendary gear before I am actually at VR12. The amount of dreugh wax/rosins required is so big that it would be huge waste of money to create any before the maximum rank.

Due to this getting to maximum rank would boost my stats by quite a bit since I would finally have the will to make my gear legendary. This would have a positive effect in pvp, which is after all the thing that I would like to do the most. Regrettably currently I have to mainly focus on getting levels instead of doing what I actually want, since pvp gives very little experience compared to other areas of the game.

I think that the solution to this would be to either remove the stat progression from VR gear all together and only give cosmetic rewards such as new costumes as rewards of playing the game after lvl 50. Currently getting VR3-5 doesn't give you anything at all. Neither do VR7-9 or VR 11. This is a problem as well. Then, having to complete four whole zones before getting another reward from leveling (apart from the gold that the quests give you) is far too much. It doesn't feel encouraging at all. The increased experience from Cyrodiil's daily pve quests helped the situation in my case, but at the very least I would like to see the veteran rank cap staying at 12 for a long while or having the new veteran ranks provide no new gear. I really wouldn't like to craft a whole new set of gear every 1-2 months.

rebellisb16_ESO

Zenimax, fix your grindish veteran content with casual quests which are simply too hard to solve alone.
I get hit by 600, 1200, 2000 on a regular base from wisps or normal "human beings" and no dragonish giant monsters from hell.

After logging in I do 2-3 quests and log out due to frustration suffering from you broken or too difficult quests, from attack-delays so far that certain attacks seemingly are not registered by the server.

At least fir your damn difficulty and increase the XD gain from quests.


edit: Oh I forgot the Ultimate Charge disappearing in an instant for no reason bla bla

mayeth

Personally we don't need vet zones. I rather level a new character, to see the other factions. I say keep craglorn but make it just a level 50 zone rather then vet 10-12. The point is remove vet content and just give people who leveled to vet 10/12 an xp boost on a new character.

Alphashado

Elirienne wrote: »

Some people here need to take a step back and look at what they are doing, for their own sakes. When you sit down to play, do you enjoy it? Yes? Then go play. No? Then please, for your own sake, go do something else that you do enjoy!

Life is too short, go do something you enjoy.

Normally I would agree with this. But in this situation, people DO enjoy the game 1-50 and DO NOT enjoy the game nearly as much at 50++.

And they are leaving in droves.

People want this game to do well. Most of us aren't trolls, but people that understand the huge potential ESO has and we also understand that it is going to sink faster than the Titanic if something isn't changed. None of us want to see that.

Shiroro

I really hope they'll actually make improvements to VR. I don't have a lot of faith that they will make positive changes right now.

OmegaSeven

I can't take this thread seriously. Veteran is killing ESO. If you people seriously think this then you are stupid.

XP is slow? You don't know the meaning of slow XP I have played games that would take years to reach the level cap. It is fine where it is at. It does not need to change. They just buffed up the XP rate already by doubling the amount of XP per kill for veterans already. Just play the game and be happy if not just leave.

Genada

Really enjoyed ESO from 1 to 50. Thought the game was great. Took my time and did all the quests I could, anchors and world bosses.

Then vet came. It was ok at first but now I am vet 8 and just have gotten to the vet 9 area. It's terrible. Right from the first quests I have been getting wrecked. Got to the end of one quest and couldn't do it, period. Not able to do it in any way. Cann't get help since the zone is dead.

I hate vet content and this is at least one player that is quitting over it. It's not fun. It's not something I enjoy.

No you may not have my stuff. I gave it all away last night and will not be playing any longer. If you enjoy the game hope you keep doing so but for me I am finished with ESO.

KariTR

Now I have 2 maps under my belt, I am starting to appreciate levelling my Vet character. The fact I am sticking only to the main quest (so I don't spoil the map entirely for my future alts) gives a fluidity to the story-line that wasn't evident when I was playing my home faction.

I also like the level of difficulty, which forces me to actually use the skills I learnt eons ago but never had to use, so didn't bother.

I can't speak for all factions of course, but on EU AD I see shouts all the time for more people to join groups levelling on bosses/dolmans/public dungeons. If people are struggling, I suggest they join such a group, or make one of their own. I surely will if anything becomes impossible to solo.

All that said, other options such as levelling in Cyrodiil can only be good for the game. And the content in Cyrodiil is already there, so to do the necessary tweaks to make viable is a bit of a no-brainer.

Melian

I'm having fun questing in veteran zones. I don't see what the problem is, and I'm a melee NB.

It would be better if there were actual new zones for leveling VR1-VR10, but I'm still enjoying myself.

xaraan

I didn't mind vet ranks actually. The entire zone was your level so you could go anywhere and do anything and not worry about wondering into an area with mobs much higher than you. The difference in XP gain was pretty noticeable at first, but it allowed me to make new equipment sets and actually get use out of them for a while whereas in reg zones I outleveled them considerably by the end of the day. Also, you don't gain that much going from v3-4 for example stat wise, so no reason to rush to get there. To me, vet content was about playing the content, not power leveling.

Sakiri

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

Dekkameron wrote: »

Again you people need to learn the normal definition of grinding in mmos. Questing IS NOT nor EVER WILL BE grinding, no matter how much you call it so.

You're arguing about the definition of a completely made-up gamer-slang term. Apply the term to doing one dull quest after another is as valid as applying it to killing one unchallenging mob after another. The result is the same: boredom.

They quests arent dull, but I bet you just click through dialog. What you are stating is nothing close to reality. Because you rush through and have zero comprehension of the quest you call it dull.... /facepalm

After the second time through them you bet theyre dull.

Sakiri

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Dealdrick wrote: »

There are skyshards and lorebooks to gather, group delves to complete and numerous quest lines that must be completed. In other words, there are WAY too many skill points to gather to just ignore this content. If I don't collect these skill points, my character is less complete than those I am competing against.

The problem is these VR zones are a huge time sink than many people don't want but are essentially forced to grind through to stay competitive.

You can do the entire zone of Skyshards and Lorebooks without having to do a single quest. You can find out which quests in each zone give skill points and only do those. You aren't forced to do the whole area.

Most of the quests that give skill points are story/chain quests.

And not doing the whole area leaves you underlevelled for the next zone.

steveb16_ESO46

aleister wrote: »

Dekkameron wrote: »

Again you people need to learn the normal definition of grinding in mmos. Questing IS NOT nor EVER WILL BE grinding, no matter how much you call it so.

You're arguing about the definition of a completely made-up gamer-slang term. Apply the term to doing one dull quest after another is as valid as applying it to killing one unchallenging mob after another. The result is the same: boredom.

Exactly. as the Bard would say:

Grinding by any other name should feel so dull.

steveb16_ESO46

You do know that this isn't responding to anything in this thread righT? I mean - you have read it?

Or did you just have a lot of straw left over you needed to make something of?

But points for ignoring the terms and conditions of this forum and throwing around insults.

[Moderator Edit: Removed quote from moderated post.]

Alphashado

All of you people that are dismissing the overwhelming concern about VR zones as "crybabies" or "whining" can really enjoy the game when it's dead and F2P.

Won't that be fun for you?

jimmulvaney

Haven wrote: »

Not to derail the thread. But how would you guys do veteran ranks if you could choose? Like. What would you do different? [Note this is a honest question.]

Make veteran content optional!
I was with a WW only guild of close to 300 members... now down to only 101. Sad to say that I too have unsubbed and it will be running out at the end of the week. Why? I just finished the main story line and was intrigued by the idea of witnessing the plights of the other factions through the eyes of my enemy. Excellent idea! So long as I get to play it the way I want right?... nope. How long do you think I want to be a 2h Heavy DK Nord?

I was hoping to run DC as a Dw Med NB Khajiit... but much to my extreme disappointment this is sadly not the case. Sure I can go Dw and Med armor but I can't go Khajiit nor can I go NB. Also, what good is my 2h Nord perk going to be when I want to go Dw? I mean Cadwell already casts a spell to disguise you from their eyes, so why not give me the option to create a new character but keep the skill progression I have earned so I can attain those elite mats and skills? Reset the char level, attribute and skill points (for free), but only let us keep the SPs we gained from skyshards and the main story quests. I know all of this can be somewhat accomplished by re-rolling a new character which I tried and lemme tell you those Harborage quests lost all luster the first time around. Hell you can even throw me into Coldharbour for the final zone again and make me complete the "God of Schemes" quest. Who wouldn't want to test their new build against hordes of Dremora and the God of Schemes himself? THEN if you want to try out the vet content you can make up your mind on your build and not be gimped for trying something new! I am not suggesting you let us do these changes whenever we please only when we put Molag Bal to rest. Each time we do, we get the same options... Create New Character, Choose New Class, and keep skill progression and acquired skyshards OR move onto Veteran Content with your current character. I almost feel like veteran ranks should be separate from PvP or PvE there could be VR which has trials and Craglorn and Veteran Ranked faction quest lines. However, for the love of TALOS!!! Do not make me go through the storyline all over again. The story was okay at best and I love how "Cadwell did it" is used to explain the unexplainable... crap, did I just make a new meme? "Cadwell did it."

On top of it all, what I could not bear the most was the lack of players in the new faction area. I get it is instanced to veterans at that point but you absolutely KILLED the sense of community. No longer can I run into a random delve and provide support to a group of strangers struggling with a boss. instead it is every person for themselves unless you actively create groups. in which case screw the person whose guild no longer plays, or doesn't have many friends online.

I feel like you should be approaching it as player progression, not character progression ya know? and that includes achievements! I could not believe what I saw when i rolled a new character and checked the achievement progress! Why would you do that? Achievements are for players, not characters! Lastly, I will be keeping an eye on the patch notes to see if my dreams ever come true, but for how long? Who knows.

Bayezid

I remember how satisfying it was to finally level up to max level after a few months, quick level ups will cause people to rush content and well get bored quickly

Iceman_mat

I have a solution for vets complaining about the "grind". Go download linage 2, find a private server (you will need too) with "classic" or "times 1.0" exp gain, level to about 52ish (top I believe is 80 now) then get back to me about your "grinding" complaints.

if you're to lazy (which you are) a good group was 9 people, killing mobs constantly, non-stop gaining 0.01% per kill and 1% per day, at level 32ish.

if you played lineage 2 and know this then here is a friendly reminder to stfu.

2 month old game is gonna get killed by it's player base just so they can say "see I told you so" not realizing or caring they caused it. I'm calling it


-cheers

tsvetan.dimitrov76cub18_ESO

Bahz wrote: »

Rather easy fix for this to keep most ppl happy:
- At 50 you can unlock 1 other class
- You get the option to level this class in the other faction zone like playing an alt.
- You could also level this class anywhere else but xp is scaled to the level of tree. So no VR xp that quickly lvls the tree.
- After maxing the class you select another and another optional faction.
- New content like craglorn is playable from 50 like real veteran content, if you want more skills/options you level your other trees first or do it in the new content

I see a lineage 2 player

GreySix

Blackwidow wrote: »

Even a really bad game will find a small niche of people that love it.

Indeed. Remember Master of Orion 3?

Yeah, even that has fans.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

The original veteran levels that everyone including me thought was like : Lets say I'm an elf/AD. We thought that after finishing all the AD zones, we COULD HELP AD in other zones, thereby I get a different Stonefalls than one if I levelled a Pact character. Well, different in a sense that the quests are gonna be different.

It felt so stupid to help murder AD troops when you are playing as AD.

I dont see a clear way out for ZoS out of this without hurting a significant portion of their player base. The most likely thing to happen would be to nerf each VR levels' XP req (VR9 to 10 is almost 5 million XP) MASSIVELY, to less than 1/3rd or even less. This will hurt those who levelled the normal way all the way to max

Or get rid of vet levels completely, compensate those at VR with game time, and rehash the whole gear/progression system to something different. Chances of this happening is gonna be lower than the sun not coming up tommorow tho.

Hilgara

if Zm scales content difficulty to the least skilled players they will be making a fatal error. I love the challenge of vet zones. I have soloed two toons through them and its a great way to force you to examine your class to eek out every last bit of dps and survivability for when you hit craglorn. To me the difficulty of the game is about the only thing ZM got right and if they dumb it down for the people who can't be arsed to do a little experimenting and research I would leve.

Sakiri

Hilgara wrote: »

if Zm scales content difficulty to the least skilled players they will be making a fatal error. I love the challenge of vet zones. I have soloed two toons through them and its a great way to force you to examine your class to eek out every last bit of dps and survivability for when you hit craglorn. To me the difficulty of the game is about the only thing ZM got right and if they dumb it down for the people who can't be arsed to do a little experimenting and research I would leve.

Seeya then.

Alphashado

Hilgara wrote: »

if Zm scales content difficulty to the least skilled players they will be making a fatal error. I love the challenge of vet zones. I have soloed two toons through them and its a great way to force you to examine your class to eek out every last bit of dps and survivability for when you hit craglorn. To me the difficulty of the game is about the only thing ZM got right and if they dumb it down for the people who can't be arsed to do a little experimenting and research I would leve.

That is the problem here, and people like you fail to see it or understand it. People are being forced to do one or two things. Experiment until their eyes bleed and their pockets are empty from respecs, or grab a Destro staff. The vast majority of the people paying money to play this game want to PLAY it. They don't want to spend every hour of every day searching for something that makes VR content less of a repair bill.

This isn't called respec untill your eyes bleed online. And it isn't called Spam Impulse online either.

I have spent all of my time from VR1- VR4 experimenting. I am tired of it. I want to find a build that works and get comfortable with it and I DO NOT WANT IT TO INCLUDE A DESTRUCTION STAFF!

Nor should it have to, but 90% of the builds you see out there do. The VR content is balanced terribly for the concept of the game.

People are leaving in droves... why is that so hard to understand? It isn't FUN for me anymore. I am tired. So tired of trying to make something work that ISN'T A DESTRUCTION STAFF OR RESTO STAFF.

Some people LIKE dying repeatedly. I do not.

jimmulvaney

Bahz wrote: »

Rather easy fix for this to keep most ppl happy:
- At 50 you can unlock 1 other class
- You get the option to level this class in the other faction zone like playing an alt.
- You could also level this class anywhere else but xp is scaled to the level of tree. So no VR xp that quickly lvls the tree.
- After maxing the class you select another and another optional faction.
- New content like craglorn is playable from 50 like real veteran content, if you want more skills/options you level your other trees first or do it in the new content

See, this is what I am talking about instead of making the endgame grind easier, give us a different endgame experience. Though I would refine it a bit like this...
- beat game to unlock new character while keeping skill progression.
- retain all skyshards SPs.
- retain SPs you collected from main story only.
- choose race.
- choose class.
- choose faction.
- do faction related quests without main story quests.
- keep Coldharbour as final zone.
- require "God of Schemes" quest.
- rinse, repeat.

Every time you beat Molag Bal, you should get the option to do the above OR move on to veteran content with Craglorn being open at VR1. This would effectively make three game options... PvP, PvE and VRC (Veteran Rank Content).

I would really like some input on my idea above if any one is interested?

Personally, I see them doing away with running new factions at veteran rank, once new adventure zones come out and it would eventually go something more like this...
Craglorn : VR 1-5
Adventure Zone 2 : VR 5-10
Adventure Zone 3 : VR 10-12
etc... Every time they add a new AZ the requirements for the previous ones will be lowered until you have one AZ for each VR. The problem is that most of us are ready for that new experience now and they are not delivering... so we unsub until they do.

Bahz

tsvetan.dimitrov76cub18_ESO wrote: »

Bahz wrote: »

Rather easy fix for this to keep most ppl happy:
- At 50 you can unlock 1 other class
- You get the option to level this class in the other faction zone like playing an alt.
- You could also level this class anywhere else but xp is scaled to the level of tree. So no VR xp that quickly lvls the tree.
- After maxing the class you select another and another optional faction.
- New content like craglorn is playable from 50 like real veteran content, if you want more skills/options you level your other trees first or do it in the new content

I see a lineage 2 player

Yep, actually L2 was my first mmo

Allyah

Bahz wrote: »

tsvetan.dimitrov76cub18_ESO wrote: »

I see a lineage 2 player

Yep, actually L2 was my first mmo

Mine, too.