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Dear ZOS - veteran levels are killing ESO. Please wake up to this.
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LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wrote up a detailed opinion piece on how to overhaul Veteran content to make it enjoyable, end-game content.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/106935/my-proposal-for-overhauling-veteran-content#latest
The key points involve the removal of visiting the other factions and the conversion of one zone in each alliance to an adventure type zone with optional but daily content for VR1-10.0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
Whatever for? It's what got me into MMO's in the first place and is still one of my favorites.
Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.Vet levels killed this game for me...ESO is done.Edited by Allyah on June 4, 2014 2:34PM2 -
Sparkleav✭✭✭+1
And after 1.1 it's actually worse. Having a character go from Fun to totally useless between sessions is not my idea of fun. Tried to play a bit and just couldn't be bothered anymore.
Subscription cancellation doesn't even ask you why or any feedback. Kindof sums it up really.
I cancelled today and expected something to pop up to ask why you're cancelling. I was surprised that this wasn't asked.
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GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah, they don't do that.I cancelled today and expected something to pop up to ask why you're cancelling. I was surprised that this wasn't asked.
We cancelled during our move, discovering the same thing.
... and they don't want you posting why you unsubscribed here either.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"2 -
Sparkleav✭✭✭
I noticed that on the forums too. I find this strange, surely they care why people are leaving?
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GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I noticed that on the forums too. I find this strange, surely they care why people are leaving?
Apparently not.
Frankly, one of the reasons we re-subscribed (other than we just enjoy exploring Tamriel) was so that I could continue pleading my case here on the forums.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.
Sorry to break it to you but the accountants who will actually decide the future of this game will miss his and everyone else's money.
This is how sub games fail and have to turn themselves into a Store with a game attached.3 -
LariahHunding✭✭✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »I'd say from this thread, it definitely seems like vet *levels* are the issue, not necessarily replaying other world factions. So, leave the level cap at 50 and give up rep factions we can get goodies from for doing that other world questing.
Replaying the other faction stories in tedious grind format is very much the issue for me. It's a lazy cop-out that makes no sense at all.
agreed my issue also has nothing at all to do with the difficulty,been gaming since the 80's I've played some damn hard games.more challenge is like double the content to me haha.people are sick of linear mmo's,most of us want real options.
Give me another option that doesn't involve doing another factions 1-50 content and my bitching ends or my sub does.
Look up the definition of grind, you wont see questing called it.
May not be grinding, per your excellent intellect, but sure the hell is a GRIND.
"Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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Sendarya✭✭✭
@hamon I don't think you have your facts straight. EQ2 released like 2 weeks before Wow, they both came out in November of 2004. So it couldn't have been as if you played EQ2 for a long time, and then Wow came along and was refreshing.
i,m getting sick of all the nostagia mongers who keep harking back to the glory days of games gone by.. except that they invariably do so through rose tinted glasses.
i was there in old school games like EQ2 where pretty much everything you did required a group.. i remember standing spammming for hours trying to find a healer cos you couldn't do anything without them. Healers also knew thier own worth so some of them would abuse this and act like muppets knowing folk would either tolerate them or leave the group and go back to spamming to find another group.. yes these games were fun and you found some good groups. but they wern't all good and the players wern't all paragons of niceness.
it was actually refreshing when vanilla wow came out and you could do much more stuff alone and back then the community was pretty decent
EQ2 was not an "Old School Game", it wasn't even a 2nd gen MMO! It is the same as WoW, considered a "current gen" MMO, were 90% of the content was soloable.
Not only that, but EQ2 was a VERY solo friendly game for most of the content. If you mean regular EQ, then yeah, that often required a group (if you wanted to grind Giants or do dungeons), but there was STILL a lot of solo content in EQ. Especially after the 2nd expansion.
If you think EQ2 was hard, well...hmm.
Owner of the Traveling Tavern, serving superior and consummate foods and drinks for all your leveling needs!
The Traveling Tavern is now closed, until veteran loot tables and rare food mats are fixed. I am very sorry to all my loyal customers!0 -
Sparkleav✭✭✭I get what you mean. Tamriel is a wonderful place to explore. *Sigh* I see so much potential so I may be back in the future but right now after starting the VR grind I'm not particularly enjoying it. Maybe now is a good time for a break, besides it's almost summer, I'm not planning on spending a lot of time inside when the weather's nice
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LariahHunding✭✭✭✭Preceding statement before the decision to implement VR content, "OH CRAP, CRAGLORN IS NOT GOING TO BE READY. WHAT WILL WE DO!"
Probably not, but I would bet that it was a rush decision to meet the launch date."Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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Allyah✭✭✭
I believe I only said this to one person. Not to an entire population.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.
Sorry to break it to you but the accountants who will actually decide the future of this game will miss his and everyone else's money.
This is how sub games fail and have to turn themselves into a Store with a game attached.0 -
LariahHunding✭✭✭✭domainsfreakb14_ESO wrote: »I can't take this thread seriously. Veteran is killing ESO. If you people seriously think this then you are stupid.
XP is slow? You don't know the meaning of slow XP I have played games that would take years to reach the level cap. It is fine where it is at. It does not need to change. They just buffed up the XP rate already by doubling the amount of XP per kill for veterans already. Just play the game and be happy if not just leave.
May your arrogant self enjoy your f2p game in the near future.
"Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭
I believe I only said this to one person. Not to an entire population.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.
Sorry to break it to you but the accountants who will actually decide the future of this game will miss his and everyone else's money.
This is how sub games fail and have to turn themselves into a Store with a game attached.
A population is comprised of individuals. In this case individual paying customers who are unhappy and who are constantly being told they won't be missed on these forums.2 -
TetsuMaru✭✭✭I too think that ZoS needs some new direction in regards to their customer relationship management; however, I love this game.
1 -
JessieColt✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I believe I only said this to one person. Not to an entire population.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.
Sorry to break it to you but the accountants who will actually decide the future of this game will miss his and everyone else's money.
This is how sub games fail and have to turn themselves into a Store with a game attached.
A population is comprised of individuals. In this case individual paying customers who are unhappy and who are constantly being told they won't be missed on these forums.
You do realize that this forum is for players to communicate with each other, right?
Forum moderators post, as noted by the icon on some threads.
There are also official posts in the Patch Notes area, but for 99.999% of the forums, they are for players to talk to each other.
Unless you see some official posting saying that the company will not miss you, those replies are from users, most of whom couldn't care less if an individual player stays or leaves, or even if they dropped off of the face of the Earth tomorrow.
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alphawolph✭✭✭
This is so true if everyone left after being told to, after mentioning something about the game they thought could use a tweak. The game would crash and burn.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I believe I only said this to one person. Not to an entire population.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.
Sorry to break it to you but the accountants who will actually decide the future of this game will miss his and everyone else's money.
This is how sub games fail and have to turn themselves into a Store with a game attached.
A population is comprised of individuals. In this case individual paying customers who are unhappy and who are constantly being told they won't be missed on these forums.
It's also such a childish thing to say.
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Sangeet✭✭✭I actually like the VR content, but i think when a player wants help for a boss he cant solo, it should be allowed that the player gets help from other players, so they can complete their quests. (Which would otherwise only be beatable by a certain build.)
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭JessieColtub17_ESO wrote: »
You do realize that this forum is for players to communicate with each other, right?
Forum moderators post, as noted by the icon on some threads.
There are also official posts in the Patch Notes area, but for 99.999% of the forums, they are for players to talk to each other.
Unless you see some official posting saying that the company will not miss you, those replies are from users, most of whom couldn't care less if an individual player stays or leaves, or even if they dropped off of the face of the Earth tomorrow.
I'm genuinely puzzled as to what you imagine you are saying here?1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Have seen evidence that what is posted here does reach game patches, since we've seen many recommended fixes here make it in-game.
Yes, they do have - and you can and should use - the in-game feedback tool, but it is very likely that what is posted in this forum does see the light of day in game changes.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
Sendarya✭✭✭I don't think that it is just the fact that vet levels are difficult that is causing people to leave. It's the risk vs reward imbalance. If you UP the risk, you need to UP the reward, and currently the reward in vet content is actually less than it is in 1-50. I do not get a feeling of achievement. And I LIKE slow leveling games (I actually felt 1-50 could have been a bit slower/harder).
The thing is , from 1-50, loot drops like candy so much so that bags fill up shortly in regular questing play sessions. It isn't even useful except to decon for crafting or selling for a little extra gold.
Good gear in this game is so laughably easy to get, it loses the feeling of being a reward.
Levels alone can indeed be a reward, but as many have pointed out, PvP is what a lot of people expected endgame to be, and those who wanted to do that cannot unless they first grind out vet 10 (now vet 12). So the only reward for them is eventually being able to PvP, but they don't get to do so competatively in the meantime.
Crafting / trading can also provide great rewards in an MMO, but aside from the time required to learn traits, crafting is extremely easy in this game, and due to the long running dupe bug + the alt hireling thing that was let to go on for ages, crafting tempers are far from rare. Plus they gave in the all the whining and made all the motifs drop like candy again too, so now everyone can have everything they want by the time they hit 50....except the actual Vet levels.
Do you see what I mean about vet content not providing the appropriate rewards? There is nothing special, no achievements or anything that make the hard work feel worth it. Whether you harken back to EQ or vanilla WoW, games used to actually give players rewards based on how much work they invested. This game gives you almost everything soooo easy in 1-50, and then nothing better for the harder vet levels, it makes no sense.
For me, it simply feels like progression is wildly imbalanced. You can't give the babies all the candy they can eat for 50 levels just for going through the motions, then take it away and make them play for a single piece of broccoli in vet levels and not expect people to feel the disconnect.
If 1-50 had been harder, with either less rewards or harder earned better rewards, then vet content would be balanced. As it is, 1-50 and Vet content feels like 2 different games. Actually, I guess it feels like what it is, a shell of content tacked on at the last minute without much thought put into it.
TL;DR, risk needs to = reward, and this game is way out of balance in that department.Owner of the Traveling Tavern, serving superior and consummate foods and drinks for all your leveling needs!
The Traveling Tavern is now closed, until veteran loot tables and rare food mats are fixed. I am very sorry to all my loyal customers!2 -
Muletide✭✭✭I got my main to Vet levels and didn't mind it much (I enjoy questing, exploring, achievements, stopping to smell the flowers, etc.) until I did Crow's Wood to fill out my map. Tons of people in the instance, but no one wanted to group for the quests or champions... they were just running circuits AOE-ing wolf packs. Another DK S&B tank (same spec as I am) was the only other person that wanted to do the CW content (which we couldn't complete because 2 DK tanks have no DPS). Something is wrong when we have this huge world of wonderful/beautiful content, but the tedium has driven people to 2001 era mob-grinds to get through VRs.
This is off topic, but this scenario is also an example of the imbalance going on. The freedom from "holy trinity" idea is cool, but people that want to play a tank class are left sucking hind teet because all the DPS (mostly made up of light armor/staff builds) doesn't need a meat-shield, but meat-shields need DPS. And with all the PvP nerf cries to DKs, my PvE viability has drastically decreased.0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
And you, of course, have the numbers to prove that the amount of people who have left or who will leave soon will turn this game into pay to play and that those numbers are significant enough to matter to the company?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I believe I only said this to one person. Not to an entire population.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.
Sorry to break it to you but the accountants who will actually decide the future of this game will miss his and everyone else's money.
This is how sub games fail and have to turn themselves into a Store with a game attached.
A population is comprised of individuals. In this case individual paying customers who are unhappy and who are constantly being told they won't be missed on these forums.
My statement still stands. They won't miss you or your money. You pay an hour of someone's salary a month. Don't try to make this about more people than yourself. You were the only one I was talking about because neither of us can claim to know how many subscriptions they have or will have in the future.0 -
Dealdrick✭✭✭
And you, of course, have the numbers to prove that the amount of people who have left or who will leave soon will turn this game into pay to play and that those numbers are significant enough to matter to the company?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I believe I only said this to one person. Not to an entire population.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.
Sorry to break it to you but the accountants who will actually decide the future of this game will miss his and everyone else's money.
This is how sub games fail and have to turn themselves into a Store with a game attached.
A population is comprised of individuals. In this case individual paying customers who are unhappy and who are constantly being told they won't be missed on these forums.
My statement still stands. They won't miss you or your money. You pay an hour of someone's salary a month. Don't try to make this about more people than yourself. You were the only one I was talking about because neither of us can claim to know how many subscriptions they have or will have in the future.
If you think they won't miss our money, you are clueless. Zeni is gonna have to pay the piper soon, and it won't be pretty. This game is in the same boat SWTOR was at release. Players leaving in droves, dev team that won't listen and numerous fixes that have yet to be done.
They created one of the most expensive video games of all time and its in deep #2, they need every single sub they can get.2 -
Allyah✭✭✭
Yeah... I'm the clueless one when you can't even understand the concept of: Numbers or you're just assuming a bunch of ****.
And you, of course, have the numbers to prove that the amount of people who have left or who will leave soon will turn this game into pay to play and that those numbers are significant enough to matter to the company?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I believe I only said this to one person. Not to an entire population.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.
Sorry to break it to you but the accountants who will actually decide the future of this game will miss his and everyone else's money.
This is how sub games fail and have to turn themselves into a Store with a game attached.
A population is comprised of individuals. In this case individual paying customers who are unhappy and who are constantly being told they won't be missed on these forums.
My statement still stands. They won't miss you or your money. You pay an hour of someone's salary a month. Don't try to make this about more people than yourself. You were the only one I was talking about because neither of us can claim to know how many subscriptions they have or will have in the future.
If you think they won't miss our money, you are clueless. Zeni is gonna have to pay the piper soon, and it won't be pretty. This game is in the same boat SWTOR was at release. Players leaving in droves, dev team that won't listen and numerous fixes that have yet to be done.
They created one of the most expensive video games of all time and its in deep #2, they need every single sub they can get.1 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
My statement still stands. They won't miss you or your money. You pay an hour of someone's salary a month. Don't try to make this about more people than yourself. You were the only one I was talking about because neither of us can claim to know how many subscriptions they have or will have in the future.
That would be all good and fine if he was the only one that was leaving but he isn't so stop being so silly.At least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*1 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm staying but.....
I find vet levelling tiresome, its too long and monotonous.
My guild has shrivelled, Sad because I came here for raids but most have drifted due to vet levelling.At least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*2 -
Dealdrick✭✭✭
Yeah... I'm the clueless one when you can't even understand the concept of: Numbers or you're just assuming a bunch of ****.
And you, of course, have the numbers to prove that the amount of people who have left or who will leave soon will turn this game into pay to play and that those numbers are significant enough to matter to the company?steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
I believe I only said this to one person. Not to an entire population.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Sorry to break this to you but... they aren't going to miss you.
Sorry to break it to you but the accountants who will actually decide the future of this game will miss his and everyone else's money.
This is how sub games fail and have to turn themselves into a Store with a game attached.
A population is comprised of individuals. In this case individual paying customers who are unhappy and who are constantly being told they won't be missed on these forums.
My statement still stands. They won't miss you or your money. You pay an hour of someone's salary a month. Don't try to make this about more people than yourself. You were the only one I was talking about because neither of us can claim to know how many subscriptions they have or will have in the future.
If you think they won't miss our money, you are clueless. Zeni is gonna have to pay the piper soon, and it won't be pretty. This game is in the same boat SWTOR was at release. Players leaving in droves, dev team that won't listen and numerous fixes that have yet to be done.
They created one of the most expensive video games of all time and its in deep #2, they need every single sub they can get.
How about a guild of 150 who's active numbers dropped to 20 two weeks ago, and 5 or 10 now that Wildstar is out. They are having to recruit all over again because people are moving on to something else. This is not the only guild I have seen have this problem, but by all means, keep your head buried in the sand.2
