Dear ZOS - veteran levels are killing ESO. Please wake up to this.

NombreDeLaBeast

If it were up to me...and it is not (sigh) This is how veteran content would have gone about.

Player reaches level 50 (ish) and has defeated Molag Bal, the [insert faction here]'s leader is ever so grateful. But a new threat is on the horizon, The War for control of Cyrodil has escalated beyond the boiling point and the [insert faction here] needs your help.

At this point it puts more emphasis on the war but in order to keep both the PVP and PVE crowd happy there would have to be a way to continue the story while offering the pvp that people want.

This brings me to the "Veteran content"; The leader of [insert faction here] has ordered you to infiltrate the enemies territories and gain intelligence along the way by reaching hidden agents within the confines of enemy nations. Here the player would get quests to take out important people, gather intel, do random quests around the countryside. No it is not that much different than what we have now, but it would make more sense rather than helping the factions you have been fighting against.

Some of the mobs would have to be adjusted and major cities would be a definite no no so shopping and crafting locations would be scarce. In Both the Ebonhart and Daggerfall factionlines I have noticed that there are multiple areas within a zone that have opposite faction enemy locations. In veteran content these areas could become your characters base of operations.

INVASION POINTS VS DARK ANCHORS
After level 50 Coldharbour is really no longer a threat, so there should be no more anchors. I know that this would mess up a lot of the achievements, but instead of removing them maybe lowering some of the requirements and add "invasion points."

Invasion points would only be in veteran zones, and instead of the player trying to shut them down they are trying to protect them. in fact it would be very much like the anchors but we the players would be like the deadra and the npcs that come to fight would be like the players. Much like the anchors the players would have to survive waves of enemy forces to protect a portal or something to get credit for it. Also at the end of the npc waves there would be the "boss wave", again just like the anchors, just different skin. This boss could be some sort of general that has the chance to drop invasion plans, and once a full set of invasion plans are gathered they can be turned in for a massive VP boost.

Sure it would be a lot of work to redo the current system that is on place at the moment, but if something similar to this was introduced (along with either lowering the VP cost to level or increasing VP gain further) I have a feeling that more players would be invested in their characters stories and that of veteran stories, and it gives more incentive to role an alt.

I think I said this before, that I loved how I did not have to roll an alt to see the whole story...well after hitting VR content I have to say my enthusiasm has been misplaced.

Also Veteran ranks should still give 1 skill point and 1 attribute point. I know that an extra 12 skill points and 12 attribute points may not counter the massive boosts that the Mobs get...but it is something.

I would also make it so that if Magic is increased it also increases spell power by .33 or something. This would make it so that for every 3 ish points in magic the player gets +1 spell damage. This in the end would give players 17 spell power but make them super squishy (more so than they already are.) So if the player , Stamina would raise crit or weapon damage...or something. And ultimately Health would stay the same since you get 15 per attribute point. All of this would be so that players do not just stack health and be done with it. There has to be more incentive to spread out the attribute points.

Dhukath

Personally I have always enjoyed having and levelling Alts, and had envisioned doing the same in ESO. As it stands I’ve got 3 toons at VR1, one from each faction. The amount of time it will take for me to level to VR12 does not bother me, my issue is that I have to play through all content 3 times with no variation, nothing new to discover.

I understand that the idea behind Veteran content as it stands (VR1 to VR10) was to enable players to experience the other factions content without having to level an alt, but what about those players who like to level alts, who want to try builds using one of the other classes.

For me the idea that I am experiencing the other factions’ story and even fighting against my own faction mitigates everything my character did on their journey prior to Coldharbour.

I am enjoying the game and have enjoyed the content so far, but the repetitive nature of the content will probably prevent me from enjoying other builds.

Anyway I’m not the type of person to put all my energy into moaning without at least offering some sort of solution to my issue.

As it stands when you end the main quest and after killing Molag Bal (Bit of a let down reward wise, cut seen would have been nice…..) you meet with Meridia and she returns your Soul.

Why not from this point on is it not the soul you level.

You would reach level 50 in the main quest for your faction.

There would then be some form of quest whereby you rescue a Soul Shriven of a faction opposite to yours, you would be given the ability to occupy this new character with your level 50 soul (thus applying a set amount of Skill/Attribute points). You would then be given the chance to create a new character (to represent the rescued Soul Shriven) at the selection screen, choose its class, gender race.

You would then start the veteran content and experience that faction’s story as it is now. This way you would have the reward of a new character, be able to try out a new class and experience new content. Once you reach VR5 another quest would lead to a further character creation and class choice.

At the end of Veteran content it would be the Soul that had reached VR10 (and gained Veteran levels from that point onwards). This soul could jump into any of your 3 characters, meaning you’re still only completing the content once, but have a few ways of experiencing it.

Anyway just a suggestion….

FunkyBudda

darthbelanb14_ESO wrote: »

I average a level in an hour of play, and that's with me goofing around.

The funny thing is people will complain either way, whether leveling is too fast or slow.

solo? Sure, make a video you goofing around and get a full VR level, I like to learn...

steveb16_ESO46

darthbelanb14_ESO wrote: »

I average a level in an hour of play, and that's with me goofing around.

The funny thing is people will complain either way, whether leveling is too fast or slow.

It's to do with it being cheapskate, thrown in at the last second because apparently all those years and $200 million wasn't enough to get proper end-game so let's do some hand-waving and ramp up all the stats so a mud-crab could now give Godzilla a head start nonsense, not with the speed.

Phaedryn

Of the three things that caused me to cancel my sub, the entire mechanic surrounding VR is #1. Adding an additional 2 levels after only 6 weeks definitely didn't help.

Alphashado

I have to agree with the OP. 1-50 was a blast. I am vr3 now and it just isn't near as much fun. It feels like an obligation instead of an adventure.

LIQUID741

Just hit VR1, went to my new starter zone..and was disappointed that mobs in Coldharbour were giving me more exp. than the starter zone for EH. Did 3quests, intentionally killed a lot of mobs to get the feel of their toughness and didnt see the xp bar move..might have, but it could have been a glare from the sun.

Sakiri

NombreDeLaBeast wrote: »

If it were up to me...and it is not (sigh) This is how veteran content would have gone about.

Player reaches level 50 (ish) and has defeated Molag Bal, the [insert faction here]'s leader is ever so grateful. But a new threat is on the horizon, The War for control of Cyrodil has escalated beyond the boiling point and the [insert faction here] needs your help.

At this point it puts more emphasis on the war but in order to keep both the PVP and PVE crowd happy there would have to be a way to continue the story while offering the pvp that people want.

This brings me to the "Veteran content"; The leader of [insert faction here] has ordered you to infiltrate the enemies territories and gain intelligence along the way by reaching hidden agents within the confines of enemy nations. Here the player would get quests to take out important people, gather intel, do random quests around the countryside. No it is not that much different than what we have now, but it would make more sense rather than helping the factions you have been fighting against.

Some of the mobs would have to be adjusted and major cities would be a definite no no so shopping and crafting locations would be scarce. In Both the Ebonhart and Daggerfall factionlines I have noticed that there are multiple areas within a zone that have opposite faction enemy locations. In veteran content these areas could become your characters base of operations.

INVASION POINTS VS DARK ANCHORS
After level 50 Coldharbour is really no longer a threat, so there should be no more anchors. I know that this would mess up a lot of the achievements, but instead of removing them maybe lowering some of the requirements and add "invasion points."

Invasion points would only be in veteran zones, and instead of the player trying to shut them down they are trying to protect them. in fact it would be very much like the anchors but we the players would be like the deadra and the npcs that come to fight would be like the players. Much like the anchors the players would have to survive waves of enemy forces to protect a portal or something to get credit for it. Also at the end of the npc waves there would be the "boss wave", again just like the anchors, just different skin. This boss could be some sort of general that has the chance to drop invasion plans, and once a full set of invasion plans are gathered they can be turned in for a massive VP boost.

Sure it would be a lot of work to redo the current system that is on place at the moment, but if something similar to this was introduced (along with either lowering the VP cost to level or increasing VP gain further) I have a feeling that more players would be invested in their characters stories and that of veteran stories, and it gives more incentive to role an alt.

I think I said this before, that I loved how I did not have to roll an alt to see the whole story...well after hitting VR content I have to say my enthusiasm has been misplaced.

Also Veteran ranks should still give 1 skill point and 1 attribute point. I know that an extra 12 skill points and 12 attribute points may not counter the massive boosts that the Mobs get...but it is something.

I would also make it so that if Magic is increased it also increases spell power by .33 or something. This would make it so that for every 3 ish points in magic the player gets +1 spell damage. This in the end would give players 17 spell power but make them super squishy (more so than they already are.) So if the player , Stamina would raise crit or weapon damage...or something. And ultimately Health would stay the same since you get 15 per attribute point. All of this would be so that players do not just stack health and be done with it. There has to be more incentive to spread out the attribute points.

Spell damage scales with max magicka.

You can softcap magicka and stamina with gear alone. Health has no cap.

Fleymark

Catflinger wrote: »

Endolith wrote: »

I don't mind playing through the other faction's story lines. In fact, I'm doing it on alts. I have no intention of doing it through VR levels on a character that has completed the main story. Once I finish the main story on all three factions, with my alts, I will probably just stop playing and come back if/when they change VR leveling to something that interests me.

This is, broadly, where I stand on the subject. I plan on doing some questing and pvp in Cyrodiil once I hit 50, so hopefully that will break up the tedium. But I am a slow leveler, and if the thought process of the game designers remains the same -- that meaningful endgame PvE content isn't something important -- I'll have to leave, sadly.

Honestly, I believe that they originally planned for Cyrodiil to be endgame, and they were taken by surprise in beta by the fact that most people play MMOs for the PvE, or a mix of both. Now they're scrambling to adjust.

That's the problem, though. I would love for PvP to actually be endgame, too, but at VR2 I still have ten ranks of veteran grind ahead of me in order to max out the gear I can wear and get all the training points I need to craft it, as well as max out my skill lines in general. All of which is fine, I actually enjoy the difficultyof what I've seen so far of the vet content. But I'm a stamina build Dw/bow nightblade and I'm constantly worried about this wall I'm supposed to hit at whatever point... some say VR3, some say 5-8, some never. But there are like 5 threads a day and constant in game discussion about how bad NBs, Templars and stamina builds in general are at this point. I don't mind difficulty... I mind putting the time and effort into challenging that difficulty without knowing if I'm going to be viable the next rank or going to be able to get groups for VR dungeons or craglorn.

Being a completionist, I don't even mind switching over to light armor and going staff for a while just to max out those lines. But how do I know when to do this? I do 4 crafts so my cash income is a bit slower because of decons/research. After only buying bank/bag space, a 40k horse, two attributes respects, horse feed, repairs and like 5 turpen from a player at some point, at VR2 I'm now back up to like 25k gold. Training points come but are mostly from skyshards at this level so do I need to be pinching every gold for a respec when I hit this supposed wall that's coming or can I go ahead and, sat get that draft horse I'd like to start feeding? Can I go ahead and start alchemy and enchanting as I get my current trades maxxed or am I going to need those points for light armor and staff skills when I can't afford a respec and hit this alleged wall?

I'm not really asking those questions here, just illustrating my constant dullemma since hitting the vet ranks. Whoever said earlier that it's not about the difficulty or even the grind but the inability to balance classes and builds nailed it. I don't mind vet content as is, myself. But not knowing if my build is going to make it thru or when to prepare for it not working is freaking OCD hell.

Like so many other posters, I inhaled 1-50 in a matter of weeks because u loved it. Constantly wanted to see what was next, get more skills, etc. Since hitting VR1 almost 2 weeks ago my motivation to play has just nosedived. It's not because it's hard or feels grindy. It's because it's hard and feels grindy AND I'm being told that my chosen class, weapon skills and choice to go stamina, at worst, won't work at all, or, at best, will work but everyone else will think it doesn't so good luck finding groups to do the high end content.

It all stems from their apparent inability to balance two of four freaking classes and one of two (three if you count health I guess) builds in a game that they marketed as "play your way." Yes, not every single off the wall build I'd going to work in every situation but that's not even what we are talking about. It's not outrageous to expect dw/bow med armor stamina built nightblades or heavy armor s+s/2hand templar tanks to expect to be viable. Those are archetypical fantasy game builds and the fact that there is even a question about their viability speaks volumes about the developers of this game.

Bugs will be expected at release. But 2 of 4 classes broken and stamina builds not holding up versus magicka making only one armor type truly useful is just pathetic, IMO. Imagine if they had 8 to16 to balance like most games.

Worse, the fixes come at a sloth's pace and, apparently, introduce new problems when they do. Althewhile, next to ZERO info comes from the devs about their plans to fix it.

Fleymark

My phone spellchecker terrorizes me. Apologies for the typeos.

wllstrt75b14_ESO

You can do a vet level in a few hours. Heck I know guys that grind 2 levels In 4 hours. How is this too hard?
Perhaps zos should make an easy button for those that whine and want stuff on a silver platter.

WebBull

Yankee wrote: »

tdilloncub18_ESO wrote: »

Here is how my day goes lately.

- Get home from work and log in.
- Continue grind quests/zones V6-V7. Bored, log out after an hour and half (which included 30 min on banking and bag inventory).
- Head to PvP zone, do daily and continue to PvP until bored takes over about an hour in.
- Feed horse
- Log out for the night wondering why I am still playing....

There is no more hook, there is no more excitement. Hopefully the upcoming changes will mix things up and bring back the fun.

That is 2.5 hours before you are bored, which to me seems reasonable for the daily 50 cent cost of the subscription.

I too am at VR6 on my main and am questing through. 2 or 3 hours a weeknight is about all I have ever played most games, including ESO. By then I have some RL thing to do or at least want some other form of distraction.

The only time I used to spend crazy hours on a game was the first few years in WoW doing 40 and 25 man weekend progressive raiding. I am not seeking a game like that anymore.

I kind of like to take ESO a few hours at a time. It is a good game design for that IMO.

I think you missed my point. It's no longer a fun few hours. I do think it is a good game design and will continue to improve, but right now (VR levels) game play is dull.

Fleymark

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

You can do a vet level in a few hours. Heck I know guys that grind 2 levels In 4 hours. How is this too hard?
Perhaps zos should make an easy button for those that whine and want stuff on a silver platter.

You should actually read some of a thread before throwing around blanket generalizations.

Not every one thinks it's too hard. Most just think it's a big letdown because for the effort that goes into it there is comparatively little reward. I'm not in that crowd, but I think it's a legitimate point. And just slapping on new vet levels thinking anyone will want to level them just because they are there is pretty ridiculous. People will do them because they can't stand not being top level, but more will just say what's the point and not if there is no actual content to go with it.

Others aren't crazy about the actual implementation of vet level quests from other factions. You become the hero of your faction and every province of it, save kings, steal your soul back from molag bol and force the daedric hoardes back to coldharbour, and now you are back to collecting urine samples for the mayor of some insignificant town in a faction you chose not to be a part of when you started the game. Personally, I like checking out the other content, but it does feel contrived and slapped on. Because it is.

And there are others but those are the main beefs.

Reading helps.

fyrefenix

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Spamming]

ShedsHisTail

Nickers wrote: »

I'm sure someone has said it. It's not about the destination more so the journey. There is much value in reading quests and getting absorbed in the story, real game immersion comes from the imagination of the person playing it.

You can't have too much immersion when you spend 50 levels working for one team and then 10 more levels working for two others teams.

Pretty much chucks the story out the window.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

Stop whining, rly why always so easy mode ?

veneficus

There is no way that anyone is getting a veteran rank or two in one or two hours by playing the way the game is intended to be played. Players who are advancing that fast have to be abusing broken game mechanics or bugs (such as those who are exploiting Craglorn for instance).

It took me an entire weekend of pretty much non-stop play to advance from veteran rank 1 to veteran rank 2. That is the experience of most players and it is a much slower and less enjoyable experience than the rest of the game. Further some do not want to have to grind those levels to be competitive in PvP and currently that is the only option as the veteran 10-12 characters are far overpowered compared to lower level characters from all accounts.

nalan87sb14a_ESO

I know vet lvls suck ass, bad! I've lost interest in the game after seeing what zeni did with vet lvls, there's nothing special about them and its not even fun. Good luck zeni

Goibot

When I heard we were going to get to quest through the different alliance areas I was stoked! I thought this is going to be awesome. I had visions of sabotage and assassination type quests rolling around in my head. But then after that little spat with Molag Bal, I found out it was going to be the same quests they play starting out and we get to play for the different alliances as well. Talk about a let down!

This is the worst excuse for rerun material I have ever seen. Did they run out of money and imagination or what?

stungateb14_ESO

The problem is to put it bluntly Matt Firor that and he has absolute control over the game unlike the situation he had at Mythic where he had a Mark Jacobs to counter all of his stupid ideas.

Cody

I got to V4 area, while grouping only for the one vet dung I did, dolmens, and WWs(as well as the hard public dungs) as a NB archer. its not that hard.

Cody

im amazed you did not mention PvP very much:/ that's where its really hurting the player base

jelliedsoup

I think it's crazy that you have to spend more time in your non-allied areas to level up. I flew past Auridon, Malabal Tor, Grahtwood etc, now I've just gone to VR3 and very happy to be leaving Deshaan. I'm sick of the place.

Alphashado

At VR3 I am getting real tired of every single encounter with a mob of 3 being a brush with death. I know some of you guys get off on that, and I can respect that, but not me. I want my death defying content in dungeons and group objectives like Dark Anchors and Zone bosses. I fed up with getting stressed out because some crappy bandit with a 2H that hits harder than I do critting me for 750 damage because I was a split second too slow with a block.

I don't want every encounter with a trash mob to be an epic fight. I want to be able to run around and explore zones w/o worrying every single step I take that I am gonna have another 2k repair bill.

Some of you find it fun, I don't. In fact I am losing more and more patience with it every single day. It isn't challenging, its stupid. And if ZoS doesn't pull their heads of of their arse here very shortly, tons and tons and tons of casual players are going to drop this game like a bad habit. It is probobly too late anyways.

Is it too hard? No. I can get my quests done just fine. I die here and there, but I am advancing. The point is that it Isn't FUN anymore. It's annoying.

pantaro30

Personally i don't care how hard VR content is,no good reason for me to waste my time on it.make me care about it zenimax then we'll talk.

morashtakb16_ESO

Content Difficulty - No, not all that tough once you adjust, adapt, and overcome.

Repetitiveness - Rehashing content with no difference between factions is ill thought out and ruins any re-playability.

Needs more zones to quest in (for the variety) and a major overhaul in quests for VR levels (see posts above for "assassinate/subterfuge" quest lines).

Yankee

tdilloncub18_ESO wrote: »

Yankee wrote: »

tdilloncub18_ESO wrote: »

Here is how my day goes lately.

- Get home from work and log in.
- Continue grind quests/zones V6-V7. Bored, log out after an hour and half (which included 30 min on banking and bag inventory).
- Head to PvP zone, do daily and continue to PvP until bored takes over about an hour in.
- Feed horse
- Log out for the night wondering why I am still playing....

There is no more hook, there is no more excitement. Hopefully the upcoming changes will mix things up and bring back the fun.

That is 2.5 hours before you are bored, which to me seems reasonable for the daily 50 cent cost of the subscription.

I too am at VR6 on my main and am questing through. 2 or 3 hours a weeknight is about all I have ever played most games, including ESO. By then I have some RL thing to do or at least want some other form of distraction.

The only time I used to spend crazy hours on a game was the first few years in WoW doing 40 and 25 man weekend progressive raiding. I am not seeking a game like that anymore.

I kind of like to take ESO a few hours at a time. It is a good game design for that IMO.

I think you missed my point. It's no longer a fun few hours. I do think it is a good game design and will continue to improve, but right now (VR levels) game play is dull.

Yes I guess I did. I do that sometimes.

I am okay with the vet levels, but I have to take them in 2 hour chunks.

Dealdrick

This has very little to do with the difficulty of VR mobs (although they are a little over-tuned IMO, but not dramatically), its about how tedious the content is. Something being described as a "grind" is not a positive thing. Being able to experience all three factions on one character would be awesome if it was a choice, not a requirement.

The point is, the 1-50 experience ramps up to a crescendo with the conclusion in cold harbor and the main quest line, and then you are sent to a different factions starting zone as if everything that just took place didn't happen, or worse, didn't matter. Then look at the alternative to "grinding" VR levels, PvP in Cyrodill. I don't even want to imagine how much /played it would take to get from VR1 to 10 in Cyrodill.

All the VR content is, is a bunch of recycled zones with adjusted mobs and no cross faction interaction and its completely divergent from the quest lines you just completed. Sounds way too much like Diablo 3 for this to be a successful MMO

ShedsHisTail

Yeah, I'm a little disillusioned with the way Veteran Content was implemented. When I first read about end game solo content and the ability to go into other factions zones, I thought, "Awesome, once I defeat Molag Bal and help my faction out, we'll be powerful enough to invade the other factions territory. There's gonna be quests about beseiging their towns, capturing objectives, doing battle with their leaders... Man, it's gonna be sweet!"

Instead, I got the option to play the same content I've already done with an alt on hard mode.

Bummed.

Aramil1983b14_ESO

Yeah i really am getting bored with the content. I enjoyed the hell out of my daggerfall covenant questline. I played only when i could give my full attention to the game. Now that im in the pact area, doing the same, use a whistle to find my dog to find my husband quest for the third time.....im running out of podcasts to keep me awake while i play.