Dear ZOS - veteran levels are killing ESO. Please wake up to this.

DeLindsay

Veteran Ranks are not remotely the cause of any perceived decline to ESO subs/population. The vast majority of players leaving are doing so due to bugs, broken classes, poor response time from customer support, bots, etc (all which ZoS is working on, and probably completely overwhelmed by atm).

andersan

DeLindsay wrote: »

Veteran Ranks are not remotely the cause of any perceived decline to ESO subs/population. The vast majority of players leaving are doing so due to bugs, broken classes, poor response time from customer support, bots, etc (all which ZoS is working on, and probably completely overwhelmed by atm).

Vet ranks combined with the rest are the reasons I won't keep my sub. I have a vet8 NB. I want to reroll a functional class but I'm NOT going through vet content again. So my options are to continue with my NB or not resub. I choose option B. I could easily handle doing 1-50 again. I wouldn't mind it at all.

butterfly442

All the people having trouble are solo.

Join a group, scream through the content, and end of story.

Or solo your sorry gaming self out the door.

No one will miss you.

Censorious

butterfly442 wrote: »

All the people having trouble are solo.

Join a group, scream through the content, and end of story.

Or solo your sorry gaming self out the door.

No one will miss you.

/golfclap

the_falcorrwb17_ESO

Why should Veteran rank be easy?
Why not whinge that Zenimax didn't include a "Click here to make your character VR12" button?
Sorry, forgot I must have been talking to someone from the "give it to me now the world owes me" generation.
Go back to playing Solitaire kid.

Skjoldur

Dralzen wrote: »

how do you survive in real life where you have to do hard work for little gain or none at all.

Actually games should not be as hard or tedious as real life since they are supposed to be more fun than real life.

Riksis

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks,

We want you to know that we've seen all your feedback and concerns about Veteran Levels, Veteran Content, end-game character progression options, and we're in the process of planning some changes and improvements. We hope to be able to share our plans with you very soon (maybe in the next Road Ahead letter.)

Thank you for the update. It's good to know that you are working on improving the situation.

Right now I resorted to playing three characters, one in each alliance. I've not finished any alliance story yet, but one of the main reasons for me to play is story content and exploration. I fear that once I have all three characters at lvl50 I have to decide whether
1) I take one of them through story and zone content I know already, just with the hindrance that I'll die a lot and don't really improve my character, or
2) search other things to do in game

I'm quite sure that I wont do 1) in the current state, and for 2) there is not too much to do, pvp is quite useless against VR12 players and right now there is not much else to do.

Fortunately I'm quite a slow leveler and take a very long time to level up. My hope is that once I reach the point you guys had enough time to solve both 1) and 2) - make VR leveling enjoyable and add more things to do at top level.

Enkil

Why are people so obviously missing the point here?

We don't want to play through some level 1-50 content that is made more difficult and re purposed as "Veteran level content".. especially when it uses some contrived, ridiculous premise just so it can keep us busy grinding levels. Common sense!!! The premise is CONTRARY TO the MMO 3/alliance war ASPECT of the game that they built up all through all aspects of the game.

This is LAZY DEVELOPMENT.

I LOVE a challenge and wish 1-50 was more challenging. Do Not Conflate the issues here. 1-50 if far too easy and needs to be more challenging in my opinion.

VR1-VR10 is a joke and requires a player to go thru content (that any Longterm-minded developer would reserve for replay value) that consists of the same type of quests we've done time and time again. Why in the world did you not take the extra effort to make these invasion quests?!?!?

All VR content should be new and original. "Veterans" that have defeated a Daedric Prince should not be doing menial tasks for opposing factions?!?, just to get VP. HELLO!! Common sense!

Make real alternatives that we can enjoy.. The Devs know it's Lazy.. we know it's Lazy... Defending it is asinine.

Korah_Eaglecry

apterous wrote: »

"expgain too slow" now if you finish the game in few days, what the *** are you supposed to do then, huh?

Its not about it being slow. Its about there being nothing worth a **** to play through that slow grind.

There is literally 100 levels worth of content crammed into VR1-10. And every 50 levels youre sent back to the start to do it all over again. Now if there was progression beyond the fight with Molag Bal. There were developments. That would be worth the extra 100 levels youre subjected too. Instead you have to fight your way through all the alternative factions you could of washed up on shore in.

Korah_Eaglecry

butterfly442 wrote: »

All the people having trouble are solo.

Join a group, scream through the content, and end of story.

Or solo your sorry gaming self out the door.

No one will miss you.

If that were true. You wouldn't be in here posting such an obnoxious post. Not that its your fault people are leaving. But Id put money on you struggling with your attitude you have now when theres a serious lack of players 6 months from now.

babylon

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

butterfly442 wrote: »

All the people having trouble are solo.

Join a group, scream through the content, and end of story.

Or solo your sorry gaming self out the door.

No one will miss you.

If that were true. You wouldn't be in here posting such an obnoxious post. Not that its your fault people are leaving. But Id put money on you struggling with your attitude you have now when theres a serious lack of players 6 months from now.

It's also ironic in that it's likely they're projecting the antisocial attitude they clearly have onto people who want to tackle a game in a different way (solo play). Most times you'll find solo players are in guilds, and are chatty, and buy and sell things - all of which are interaction within an MMO - the lack of them grouping all the time to get through their quests does not make them antisocial. But someone like the above shoving people away from them and the game IS actually antisocial, hence why I suspect they are projecting their inner feelings onto others.

steveb16_ESO46

Despair9 wrote: »

Let me explain it to you:

<snip>

Feel free to share your opinions.

Already shared. If it's either/or. Then I choose my 'either' of proper no-*** stories like 1-50 that take us into new adventures that continue the faction story in the other areas.

VR as it stands, sucks. And I'd bet my mortgage, and I expect you'd bet yours as well if push came to shove, that it's driving away more players than it's attracting.

humpalicous

I don't know many thought of it but veteran content is a replay of the original leveling experience. Remember what Cadwell said regarding what it would be like if you woke up in a different place?

What he (and of course Zenimax) meant was that you would go through the same xp leveling again, thus gaining low xp in the beginning and higher towards the end. It's the leveling all over again two more times. The big difference is the introduction of veteran ranks and higher difficulty. I can understand that some people do not want to go through that leveling experience again but what would you have the developers do? Give me viable solutions that would satisfy the opposition and I rest my case.

I personally enjoy the end game and the difficulty spike because it makes you think and use special tactics for special situations. This will not satisfy the casual gamer but end game content in MMO's is what usually seperates the casual gamer from the more motivated and determined player. I am not calling anyone a noob now but end game is supposed to be a hard and in most cases a grind. Period.

I do however agree that rewards for sticking with the vr content should be more extensive and rewarding. Some different xp leveling never hurts. Though this is not a major issue it would please most gamers and even save a few subscribers. Something to think about Zenimax?

Anyway, I am a dedicated player that will stay by the game's side and pay the measly fee (15 bucks, seriously it's nothing, you won't even notice it each month) and actually hope they do not turn it into free to play. With the fee we can actually get an honest chance of the game improving. I just hope that more people agree with me and keeping otherwise it would be a shame.

brachialis

While i agree with you in terms of how unrewarding vet-rank leveling feels, i have to disagree with you about how "unplayable" it is.
I actually like that its challenging! I prefer a game that gives you challenges, makes you find a way arround them and improve your gameplay.
For those who don't like things like that I have to say: it's a MMO, look for a group, do it with friends or whatever - here lies the real problem though, you CAN'T group in some situations due to phasing and who knows what other problems.
And from what i've seen in various official posts thats an issue they are going to address and is on their top priority list.
There might be a lot of stuff to fix (broken class abilities, grouping, the list goes on and on), however veteran rank difficulty is fine as it is, challenging but so far never impossible (yes even solo and im saying that as someone who has played the 2 considerably weakest classes right now to max rank, templar and nightblade).

And regarding the rewards for Veteran rank leveling - i really like the idea of some veteran only abilities, maybe even a whole veteran skill-line with some passives and the one or the other active ability. Right now the motivation to climb up in veteran ranks is extremely low, leveling is much slower and unrewarding compared to the 1-50 leveling experience. It's fine that its slow, you have a lot of content to show and people should see it but PLEASE make it rewarding






***SPOILER***
Best example of how unrewarding the game is at times might be the Cadwells Silver/ Gold quests. those Huge Questlines, where you have to complete all the other factions zones. You would exspect to see some epic cutszene upon completion (your main faction completion brought you to Coldharbour), and/ or at least to get some awesome, level appropriate loot for all your efforts. And well, what do you get? A comletely USELESS blue level 50 item and some more or less warm worths from cadwell. THIS was by FAR the most disappointing moment I had playing the game so far.

smokes

humpalicous wrote: »

I don't know many thought of it but veteran content is a replay of the original leveling experience. Remember what Cadwell said regarding what it would be like if you woke up in a different place?

What he (and of course Zenimax) meant was that you would go through the same xp leveling again, thus gaining low xp in the beginning and higher towards the end. It's the leveling all over again two more times. The big difference is the introduction of veteran ranks and higher difficulty. I can understand that some people do not want to go through that leveling experience again but what would you have the developers do? Give me viable solutions that would satisfy the opposition and I rest my case.

I personally enjoy the end game and the difficulty spike because it makes you think and use special tactics for special situations. This will not satisfy the casual gamer but end game content in MMO's is what usually seperates the casual gamer from the more motivated and determined player. I am not calling anyone a noob now but end game is supposed to be a hard and in most cases a grind. Period.

I do however agree that rewards for sticking with the vr content should be more extensive and rewarding. Some different xp leveling never hurts. Though this is not a major issue it would please most gamers and even save a few subscribers. Something to think about Zenimax?

Anyway, I am a dedicated player that will stay by the game's side and pay the measly fee (15 bucks, seriously it's nothing, you won't even notice it each month) and actually hope they do not turn it into free to play. With the fee we can actually get an honest chance of the game improving. I just hope that more people agree with me and keeping otherwise it would be a shame.

i understand the reasoning for going there, the additional difficulty, the skyshards, skillpoints and gold rewards - but gaining VR levels through doing it, makes it into a grind. especially as craglorn was introduced at VR10 and you get mauled by VR12's in pvp.

having difficult mobs for minor rewards, is actually fine as long as it's optional - it gives longevity to the game. if you're any sort of completionist, you will want all those skyshards and skillpoints - you'll want all the crafting mats and recipes available to max out professions and research all armor traits. the scaling of the mobs in those zones should counterbalance the endgame VR level and gear upgrades, so that the difficulty remains static - it then becomes a massive sidegame to keep people busy at level cap whilst new content is created.

if you want to pvp, you just want to hit max level and start gearing.
if you want to raid in pve, you just want to hit max level and start gearing.
if you want to roll an alt to either pvp or raid pve, you dont want to grind through all factions to get to level cap.
FOTM rerollers, want to hit level cap quickly, use very specific skills and will likely never need all the skyshards available - so again, forcing them through the current VR content is uneccesary and will drive them away.

i love ESO for giving us the option to do that content on one character, it was what fans asked for in beta - they gave it to us and they added the VR grind to it to try and stall the levelling process of the "hardcores" - but hardcores will always find a way to either exploit, or grind those levels in an unexpected way.

i fully intend on experiencing all the content this game has to offer, on 1 character. but then i plan on rolling and playing other classes at max level. having to do all the current VR content again, which is many many hours of gameplay, just to try out different class builds at max level, is a lot to ask of anybody.

Deorro

I really don't understand how so many of you are complaining about Veteran Ranks. You guys make it seem like it's sooooo hard to level. Well you know what? maybe you should actually start playing the game the way it was meant to be played (ie. questing, clearing zones, doing the dolmens and torches, mix in the public and group dungeons) instead of trying to GRINDDDD your way to max level by killing 100000000 boars (or in ESO's case, zombies). I breezed through the Veteran Ranks (and it's even easier when you partner up with someone else), yes with every Veteran Rank the VP is increased, but you know what else is increased?!?! GUESS WHAT GUYS! The amount of VP you get from completing quests actually increase too! OMG NO WAIIIIIII you say?! Give it a shot. You complainers are pathetic and these complains are getting old.

Catches_the_Sun

humpalicous wrote: »

I don't know many thought of it but veteran content is a replay of the original leveling experience. Remember what Cadwell said regarding what it would be like if you woke up in a different place?

What he (and of course Zenimax) meant was that you would go through the same xp leveling again, thus gaining low xp in the beginning and higher towards the end. It's the leveling all over again two more times. The big difference is the introduction of veteran ranks and higher difficulty. I can understand that some people do not want to go through that leveling experience again but what would you have the developers do? Give me viable solutions that would satisfy the opposition and I rest my case.

I personally enjoy the end game and the difficulty spike because it makes you think and use special tactics for special situations. This will not satisfy the casual gamer but end game content in MMO's is what usually seperates the casual gamer from the more motivated and determined player. I am not calling anyone a noob now but end game is supposed to be a hard and in most cases a grind. Period.

I do however agree that rewards for sticking with the vr content should be more extensive and rewarding. Some different xp leveling never hurts. Though this is not a major issue it would please most gamers and even save a few subscribers. Something to think about Zenimax?

Anyway, I am a dedicated player that will stay by the game's side and pay the measly fee (15 bucks, seriously it's nothing, you won't even notice it each month) and actually hope they do not turn it into free to play. With the fee we can actually get an honest chance of the game improving. I just hope that more people agree with me and keeping otherwise it would be a shame.

I agree with everything you said here. My biggest concern is how Zenimax will attempt to resolve something that I don't perceive to be an issue. i.e...catering to the casual player.

We've already seen it with nerfing Doshia, which has gone from being a memorable experience to very forgettable...my wife fought her at level 10 on an alt a few days ago & killed her before she even transformed into a Harvester. We've also already seen it with the reduction of the threshold required to reach the questing achievement in many zones. The achievement & subsequent Titles rewarded have gone from something respectable to something you expect everybody to have. When somebody wore the "Pact Hero", I thought now there's a guy that is really dedicated....now it's just /shrug.

I just don't agree with where this is headed with the above 2 examples, and am concerned. I'll wait to hear more on their plans, but I think it's pretty clear what group of players they're catering to.

zeuseason

Now that I've been to the vet ranks, I can say, yea they are killing ESO is some small fraction. Obviously skewed individuals can subjectively argue this till they die a horrible beetle death, but it is true. Not a good game decision to have these over other conventional 'end game todos'.

gcalex5

butterfly442 wrote: »

All the people having trouble are solo.

Join a group, scream through the content, and end of story.

Or solo your sorry gaming self out the door.

No one will miss you.

Except for ZOS hemorrhaging money it's not like they need money to keep servers online, develop content, pay customer support, and probably the royalties to Bethesda for the Elder Scrolls name....no they wouldn't need our subs for that and it's not like for every person complaining here there's thousands of other people who don't come to these forums with the same feelings...that would just be silly to think wouldn't it? No possible way they would miss us or our money?

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

I don't care about rewards from quests. I do them for fun and I explore each zone for fun. There is ton of drops all around. You can craft what ever gear you want. As for difficulty I like it. More players are cooperating together in vet levels than it was in pre vet. So I like it. What I DO NOT like is PvP. Gap between top vets and low levels or low vets is huge. And that makes vet ranks stupid. I feel like you like to enjoy PvE content? Awsome take your time, but please do not visit cyrodiil unless you are top rank ok? PvP is suited for hardcore powerlevelers and this is wrong as they stated you can enter and enjoy PvP since level 10 which is a complete lie.

I really like the game in overall but PvP system is wrong and I will most likely cancel my sub in following 2 month if it is not scaled better. I do not want to be forced to powerlevel only to enjoy PvP.

Korah_Eaglecry

Deorro wrote: »

I really don't understand how so many of you are complaining about Veteran Ranks. You guys make it seem like it's sooooo hard to level. Well you know what? maybe you should actually start playing the game the way it was meant to be played (ie. questing, clearing zones, doing the dolmens and torches, mix in the public and group dungeons) instead of trying to GRINDDDD your way to max level by killing 100000000 boars (or in ESO's case, zombies). I breezed through the Veteran Ranks (and it's even easier when you partner up with someone else), yes with every Veteran Rank the VP is increased, but you know what else is increased?!?! GUESS WHAT GUYS! The amount of VP you get from completing quests actually increase too! OMG NO WAIIIIIII you say?! Give it a shot. You complainers are pathetic and these complains are getting old.

If you have reading comprehension issues. A forums is probably not the place for you.

Akalukz

butterfly442 wrote: »

All the people having trouble are solo.

Join a group, scream through the content, and end of story.

Or solo your sorry gaming self out the door.

No one will miss you.

Have they magically fixed grouping? As far as I can tell if someone has already done a quest or is further along in the quest... you are out of sync. Grouping for most is not an option.

Enkil

It's so disheartening to see ESO go down this theme-park/WoW path... I'm gonna hang in there and hope for the best... been requesting an Elder Scrolls MMO since Morrowind.... I think they will come thru in the end.... just gotta stick thru the ups and downs....

aleister

apterous wrote: »

"expgain too slow" now if you finish the game in few days, what the *** are you supposed to do then, huh?

PVP, craft, Craglorn trials, one of these days, hopefully they'll add real raids... for a lot of people the game starts at max level and everything before that is just a perfunctory grind they have to endure.

nerevarine1138

aleister wrote: »

apterous wrote: »

"expgain too slow" now if you finish the game in few days, what the *** are you supposed to do then, huh?

PVP, craft, Craglorn trials, one of these days, hopefully they'll add real raids... for a lot of people the game starts at max level and everything before that is just a perfunctory grind they have to endure.

If you can't get out of that mindset, that isn't the developers' fault. They did everything they could to make leveling in this game an engaging, fun process. I felt no need to rush through levels, and this is absolutely not a game where the endgame is the only thing worth doing.

Stop trying to play this game like that-other-MMO-which-shall-remain-nameless.

Enkshar

Vr difficult is just broken u can either struggle soloing at the other allies maps (questing is not group friendly due to instance and no reward for replaying content, not to speak of the lack of player at higher vr maps) and spend hours with low vr exp reward. Or u can go craglorn and quest with groups and get toons of vr exp in no time (u can get more than 1million vr exp in a couple of hours of legit playing, lots more in farming trains)

psufan5

The lack of nameplates is baffling. There is no sense of community in this game because you never recognize anyone you walk by, possibly on a daily basis. The game sorely needs a sense of who you are fighting, and grouping with.

DAOC was huge because you made enemies you would go out of your way to track down and kill. This game? I can only name 2 enemies by name, the rest are just fodder because I honestly never look at their name.

This needs to stop pretending to be Skyrim, and start acting more like an MMO. The game needs a server-wide broker, name/guild tags, and more of a reason to get involved in PVP. PVP is relatively dead in this game minus one server.

aleister

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

apterous wrote: »

"expgain too slow" now if you finish the game in few days, what the *** are you supposed to do then, huh?

PVP, craft, Craglorn trials, one of these days, hopefully they'll add real raids... for a lot of people the game starts at max level and everything before that is just a perfunctory grind they have to endure.

If you can't get out of that mindset, that isn't the developers' fault. They did everything they could to make leveling in this game an engaging, fun process. I felt no need to rush through levels, and this is absolutely not a game where the endgame is the only thing worth doing.

Stop trying to play this game like that-other-MMO-which-shall-remain-nameless.

As someone said in another thread: "WoW happened. Get over it.". I love raiding and it would be great in this game. There's not reason why we can't eventually have it (and if you don't like it, you shouldn't be forced into it).

I'm all for "getting out of this mindset", but the game needs to offer something better as an alternative.

nerevarine1138

aleister wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

apterous wrote: »

"expgain too slow" now if you finish the game in few days, what the *** are you supposed to do then, huh?

PVP, craft, Craglorn trials, one of these days, hopefully they'll add real raids... for a lot of people the game starts at max level and everything before that is just a perfunctory grind they have to endure.

If you can't get out of that mindset, that isn't the developers' fault. They did everything they could to make leveling in this game an engaging, fun process. I felt no need to rush through levels, and this is absolutely not a game where the endgame is the only thing worth doing.

Stop trying to play this game like that-other-MMO-which-shall-remain-nameless.

As someone said in another thread: "WoW happened. Get over it.". I love raiding and it would be great in this game. There's not reason why we can't eventually have it (and if you don't like it, you shouldn't be forced into it).

I'm all for "getting out of this mindset", but the game needs to offer something better as an alternative.

They already do: it's called playing the game instead of grinding through all the content and then complaining you have nothing to do.

Endolith

I don't mind playing through the other faction's story lines. In fact, I'm doing it on alts. I have no intention of doing it through VR levels on a character that has completed the main story. Once I finish the main story on all three factions, with my alts, I will probably just stop playing and come back if/when they change VR leveling to something that interests me.