Dear ZOS - veteran levels are killing ESO. Please wake up to this.

fyrefenix

LOL

kasain

You bash on EQ2 grind mobs for hours in one corner for levels. But I can count 100+ USA players in spider cave who re doing the same thing. And their gear looks like bots because they don't upgrade it from lvl 45-50.
+
Truth grinding exp in this game is faster then questing and people take path of least resistance. Me I go slow but I get a whisper or guilde shout on occasion to go dungeon grind.

It be cool if they allowed you to equip a ring or pet that you could change your job like ffxi. As no one really wants to do vet content again on an alt.

Akhratos

fyrefenix wrote: »

mean while when two veteran 4 beetles are too much for a nerfed templar tank to handle

Déjà vu?

davidhorstub17_ESO

I cant bring myself to login anymore, quested the whole way to vr10 for the extra gold and the skill points instead of the even more boring anchor/boss grind, then patch is released and was dreading having to do these boring quests again so ran around doing the craglorn dungeons, finished them all and got half a level, said screw that and havent logged back in since.

I simply cant listen to long winded npcs anymore and go around picking *** up off the ground then hand it in for a crappy heavy armor helm that im going to sell back to them 2 secs later. Vr10 was a feat, a goal, then suddenly raising the cap so soon just turned me off from the game. So the new cap is what like level 160 now? Jesus devs just stop, you cannot expect level caps to be the carrot on a stick for players, our stats are capped wtf is the point in grinding for 3 more overcharged stamina points? And to be openly saying this is going to happen every month or two... well not for me it wont.

Korah_Eaglecry

The one thing WoW got right was different stories for different classes leading to the same endgame. It gave the players a chance to experience the same areas from a different perspective without causing immediate boredom. Had ESO gone this route while maintaining the 'your choices effect the world around you' angle they currently have. This game would of been a serious step up from 99% of MMOs out there.

Craglorn was a little over 6 weeks from launch. It boggles the mind that people couldnt wait just 6 weeks from launch for some form of Endgame. And that Zenimax gave into the obnoxious and ill-informed masses and added Cross-Faction play. Now all the people that cheered for it are the same ones that power-leveled to VR10 by AOE bombing higher level mobs. Doing the complete opposite of what they cried for..A chance to play another factions content through on one character.

I was in a Guild at launch with some people that played the All Mighty EQ. They kept going on and on about how awesome that game was. How much ESO reminded them of EQ because it demanded people put in effort. As if every MMO out there besides EQ just hands you rewards for logging in. One swore up and down he spent 7 days with a group killing one Boss. And then when he got to level 35 here in ESO. What did he do? He power-leveled. All that talk about earning your rewards and doing the leg work to get something worth while. And he took the easy way out. Most people that are so nostoglic about older games tend to leave out the fact that that game was a grind-fest. It punished you for mistakes, it wasnt even remotely close to being as fun as people claim it was. But I guess people have to rationalize why they spent so much time playing a game that wasnt actually that great.

Cross-Faction is here to stay unfortunately. The only possible turn around could be future content being added (like areas of Skyrim and Elsywhere) that would subsitute for VR1-10 content. Or they could work on serious new storylines for the current VR areas so that its not the same old 'climb to the top' three times over nonsense that it is currently. Im honestly not interested in grinding to a possible VR50 or wherever they decide to stop. Had they made better, more informed decisions about their endgame content. Decisions that would secure the future of this game and not be a dark spot on the ES Franchise. Id be resubbing at the end of this month. I enjoy the game to an extent and had things gone a bit differently Id still be interested in sticking around through this rough spot. But I can no longer tell myself things will get better and believe it. Im sure they will eventually. But not with me taking part.

psychoman88ub17_ESO

I'm having fun in VR land, It's a good challenge. Also not in a hurry to be max lvl like most of you people seem to be.(Maybe that's your problem?)

I have 2 friends to play with and we stay around the same lvl to help each other out when needed.

daneyulebub17_ESO

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

I cant bring myself to login anymore, quested the whole way to vr10 for the extra gold and the skill points instead of the even more boring anchor/boss grind, then patch is released and was dreading having to do these boring quests again so ran around doing the craglorn dungeons, finished them all and got half a level, said screw that and havent logged back in since.

I simply cant listen to long winded npcs anymore and go around picking *** up off the ground then hand it in for a crappy heavy armor helm that im going to sell back to them 2 secs later. Vr10 was a feat, a goal, then suddenly raising the cap so soon just turned me off from the game. So the new cap is what like level 160 now? Jesus devs just stop, you cannot expect level caps to be the carrot on a stick for players, our stats are capped wtf is the point in grinding for 3 more overcharged stamina points? And to be openly saying this is going to happen every month or two... well not for me it wont.

Elder Scrolls Online was released April 4, 2014 for Microsoft Windows and OS X.

54 days.

Maybe you should take a break?

veneficus

I have three primary issues with veteran ranks. First of all they are far slower to gain than the prior levels between 1-50. Secondly, for those who want to PvP they have to reach the highest veteran rank if they want to have as even a playing field as possible. Thirdly, veteran ranks provide little to no visible benefit for the character other than the potential to wear and use better equipment.

Currently the highest veteran ranked characters are far more powerful than lower ranked or normal level characters. Since ZOS has claimed that PvP is one of the main end game activities the team really needs to rethink providing the highest veteran ranked characters a noticeable advantage especially when veteran ranks are slow to gain and raised often. Otherwise you will lose many PvP players as few who enjoy this activity want to be at a disadvantage in PvP due to game design.

Personally I am going to wait and see what the team plans to do. I truly have enjoyed this game up to now but I honestly haven't been looking forward to trudging all of my characters through the slow advancement of veteran ranks. The base of the game is enjoyable so I will give the team time to work out making the veteran content more diverse and enjoyable.

steveb16_ESO46

ViciousMink wrote: »

My two GP:

Some people loathe 'grinding' quests. (Really? Going through the questlines is 'grinding' now?

When it's doing stories I don't want to do and may already have done on an alt, for specious reasons that insult my intelligence, very slowly for little or no reward other than fighting suddenly super-powered foes with a broken nightblade build just to chase an ever receding level cap that others have exploited their way to in hours?

You absolutely bet i call that a pointless grind.

Akalukz

Sakiri wrote: »

Akalukz wrote: »

I bought the game to PVP... can't PVP when sub VRXX bleh. End game should be PVP not more grinding for those that hate grinding.

Many of us couldnt give a lick less about pvp.

And now you know there are some that feel the same about PVE... difference is PVP players MUST PVE... not the reverse. This game was sold on it's PVP merits and potential... so far that is all failing.

CerberusCRW

I'd just like to point out that not everyone in the higher Veteran Ranks has "exploited" or "rushed" their way there. While there are some out there who just grind through the levels as quickly as possible, the majority of us go through their ranks the old fashioned way. I am currently VR8 and had I not taken frequent breaks to play alts, I'd probably be VR10+ by now. I didn't "boss grind" nor rush, I took the time to read every single piece of dialogue on my journey to 50 and completed most of the maps (although I did skip a few bosses and dolmens here and there). Unfortunately, leveling stopped being enjoyable passed the first Veteran Rank or two and I've since started skimming through the stories. I love the dungeons and Trials sound fun, I'm just not enjoying the VR system in it's current state.

As for those wondering why people are so intent on racing to "the end of the game", you have to understand that this is a mentality MMOs have taught us for years. Leveling is the journey and end-game is where the fun begins. Some people enjoy the journey more than others, and that's totally fine, but most players will look at end-game with wide sparkly eyes, looking forward to the group challenges and epic loots that await them. While this game does offer a darn awesome journey compared to most games I've played, said journey ends once you finish Coldharbour.

Thankfully, it appears as though the developers have been reading our feedback and will be looking into the matter, so yay!

davidhorstub17_ESO

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

I cant bring myself to login anymore, quested the whole way to vr10 for the extra gold and the skill points instead of the even more boring anchor/boss grind, then patch is released and was dreading having to do these boring quests again so ran around doing the craglorn dungeons, finished them all and got half a level, said screw that and havent logged back in since.

I simply cant listen to long winded npcs anymore and go around picking *** up off the ground then hand it in for a crappy heavy armor helm that im going to sell back to them 2 secs later. Vr10 was a feat, a goal, then suddenly raising the cap so soon just turned me off from the game. So the new cap is what like level 160 now? Jesus devs just stop, you cannot expect level caps to be the carrot on a stick for players, our stats are capped wtf is the point in grinding for 3 more overcharged stamina points? And to be openly saying this is going to happen every month or two... well not for me it wont.

Elder Scrolls Online was released April 4, 2014 for Microsoft Windows and OS X.

54 days.

Maybe you should take a break?

There is no taking a break from a game like eso, there is playing and there is quitting forever. two months of grinding then suddenly have to level and re-gear my character again, a break isnt going to change anything, but yeah maybe i take a break so i can come back to 20 more vr levels to grind lol?

there are too many games out nowadays and new ones releasing all the time to simply step away from eso then still have the desire to come back, this isnt the age of eq or wow as the only option for mmo or rpgs. Aoc, rift, swtor, lotr, gw2, how many people you think took a break and then came back? Not many, barely any really.

WebBull

There is nothing wrong with a hard grind as long as there is something else to do to break the monotony. Unfortunately there really isn't. I like to PvP but that's boring after an hour or so of running around basically for nothing. There is no AH to fiddle around in. There are no BG's or war games. There is crafting but then all you do is grind for mats and there is such limited economy that it's not worthwhile (at least to me).

Here is how my day goes lately.

- Get home from work and log in.
- Continue grind quests/zones V6-V7. Bored, log out after an hour and half (which included 30 min on banking and bag inventory).
- Head to PvP zone, do daily and continue to PvP until bored takes over about an hour in.
- Feed horse
- Log out for the night wondering why I am still playing....

There is no more hook, there is no more excitement. Hopefully the upcoming changes will mix things up and bring back the fun.

fyrefenix

my templar tank was nerfed and is useless so i cannot get past ali'kir desert, 2 beetles are tougher than me.

i cannot afford the 20k plus gold to respec and be the healer that zenimax wants me to be.

and i enjoyed the 1-50 story quest but i don't know if it was worth 95 dollars.

Guppet

psychoman88ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm having fun in VR land, It's a good challenge. Also not in a hurry to be max lvl like most of you people seem to be.(Maybe that's your problem?)

I have 2 friends to play with and we stay around the same lvl to help each other out when needed.

That is the problem for many, but none of them want to admit that playing a game for more hours in a week than someone spends in a full time job, is crazy.

The game should not be balanced to accommodate that level of play, but they scream that they should be given limitless content. The muppets.

davidhorstub17_ESO

Guppet wrote: »

psychoman88ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm having fun in VR land, It's a good challenge. Also not in a hurry to be max lvl like most of you people seem to be.(Maybe that's your problem?)

I have 2 friends to play with and we stay around the same lvl to help each other out when needed.

That is the problem for many, but none of them want to admit that playing a game for more hours in a week than someone spends in a full time job, is crazy.

The game should not be balanced to accommodate that level of play, but they scream that they should be given limitless content. The muppets.

Are you in the right thread? Pretty sure this one is about the long pointless vr grind not being worth it and making people quit long before hitting level cap.

Sakiri

Fleymark wrote: »

He is, indeed. I'm not sure why you would call it "trying" though. He's more than established his credentials as one of the most successful MMO designers the genre has seen yet, if not the most successful.

Sony acquired EQ before release because games need publishers. 989/Verant developed and was left in complete autonomy over it for the first several expansions until Sony realized the potential for revenue from the genre and started pushing it in directions that were not necessarily good for the game. McQuade and the original team left to form a new company to start work on Vanguard. Many say this was the turning point for the game, many, myself included say it came much later. Both, in fairness, are legitimate arguments. But in either case, the game has endured and has enjoyed a steady but slow decline with age and is one of the very few MMOs that van say that after 15 years.

Vanguard suffered from a disasterous release stemming from an administrative change at Microsoft about 8-12 weeks before release. This administrative change brought with it an across the board cut in all non console projects. It was no reflection on the quality of vanguard but kicked it in the knee nontheless. So st the critical time when the lead designer and heart and soul of the game should have been polishing content he, instead, was scrambling to find VC money and a new publisher just to keep the game alive. The whole thing was a complete cluster F that he had very little control over.

So yes, Brad McQuade is developing a new title. I'm not a fan of every design decision he has ever made, by a long shot, but the guy is really good at what he does, arguably the best. To say that he's "trying again" in condescending fashion like that is really pretty obnoxious. Especially considering we are playing a game helmed by a dev that helped run DAoC into the ground with key BAD design decisions and here we are wondering why it's happening in this game.

Speaking of which, the new Mark Jacobs game is the one I'm most excited about, personally.

Im putting a 20 down tight now that he signs it off to SOE like the last two.

Cybrdroyd

If there are so many gold spammers and bots in ESO, I wonder who's buying all that gold from them to keep them going? I don't think as many people are leaving as you say. This is just another alarmist "the game is dying" thread that every mmo gets.

kevjon74_ESO

Doesn't everyone get it by now that the VR levels were simply a way to provide token advancement while exploring the remaining factions' content with one character? VR1-VR5 = 2nd faction. VR6-VR10 = 3rd faction.

Fleymark

Sakiri wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

He is, indeed. I'm not sure why you would call it "trying" though. He's more than established his credentials as one of the most successful MMO designers the genre has seen yet, if not the most successful.

Sony acquired EQ before release because games need publishers. 989/Verant developed and was left in complete autonomy over it for the first several expansions until Sony realized the potential for revenue from the genre and started pushing it in directions that were not necessarily good for the game. McQuade and the original team left to form a new company to start work on Vanguard. Many say this was the turning point for the game, many, myself included say it came much later. Both, in fairness, are legitimate arguments. But in either case, the game has endured and has enjoyed a steady but slow decline with age and is one of the very few MMOs that van say that after 15 years.

Vanguard suffered from a disasterous release stemming from an administrative change at Microsoft about 8-12 weeks before release. This administrative change brought with it an across the board cut in all non console projects. It was no reflection on the quality of vanguard but kicked it in the knee nontheless. So st the critical time when the lead designer and heart and soul of the game should have been polishing content he, instead, was scrambling to find VC money and a new publisher just to keep the game alive. The whole thing was a complete cluster F that he had very little control over.

So yes, Brad McQuade is developing a new title. I'm not a fan of every design decision he has ever made, by a long shot, but the guy is really good at what he does, arguably the best. To say that he's "trying again" in condescending fashion like that is really pretty obnoxious. Especially considering we are playing a game helmed by a dev that helped run DAoC into the ground with key BAD design decisions and here we are wondering why it's happening in this game.

Speaking of which, the new Mark Jacobs game is the one I'm most excited about, personally.

Im putting a 20 down tight now that he signs it off to SOE like the last two.

And? So what if he does? You say that as if it means something negative about the game. Games need publishers and startup dev houses like the one he's starting now isn't a publisher. Neither was 989/verant so Sony published it. Neither was Sigil so Microsoft published Vanguard until they had sweeping changes in house and Sony picked it up. Get a clue. Somebody has to release games. If it's not Sony it will be someone like it. Every game has a publisher. Can't imagine why anyone would call that a bad thing unless they were completely clueless.

Not the biggest fan of Sony myself because of their love of the cash store, but at least it's not EA.

daneyulebub17_ESO

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

There is no taking a break from a game like eso, there is playing and there is quitting forever. two months of grinding then suddenly have to level and re-gear my character again, a break isnt going to change anything, but yeah maybe i take a break so i can come back to 20 more vr levels to grind lol?

there are too many games out nowadays and new ones releasing all the time to simply step away from eso then still have the desire to come back, this isnt the age of eq or wow as the only option for mmo or rpgs. Aoc, rift, swtor, lotr, gw2, how many people you think took a break and then came back? Not many, barely any really.

Yikes. Your play style and expectations of an MMO are so different from mine I can't even begin to respond to this.

Good luck with the next game you burn through!

Sakiri

Akalukz wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Akalukz wrote: »

I bought the game to PVP... can't PVP when sub VRXX bleh. End game should be PVP not more grinding for those that hate grinding.

Many of us couldnt give a lick less about pvp.

And now you know there are some that feel the same about PVE... difference is PVP players MUST PVE... not the reverse. This game was sold on it's PVP merits and potential... so far that is all failing.

And thats also a problem.

Problem I have is clods whining that pvp was supposed to be *the* endgame and stomping their feet about it.

Sakiri

Guppet wrote: »

psychoman88ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm having fun in VR land, It's a good challenge. Also not in a hurry to be max lvl like most of you people seem to be.(Maybe that's your problem?)

I have 2 friends to play with and we stay around the same lvl to help each other out when needed.

That is the problem for many, but none of them want to admit that playing a game for more hours in a week than someone spends in a full time job, is crazy.

The game should not be balanced to accommodate that level of play, but they scream that they should be given limitless content. The muppets.

I clock 10+ hour days in game.

I have more fun running alts to 50 than I do in VR.

VR2 dk is my highest.

All of us no lifers didnt powerlevel.

Guppet

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

psychoman88ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm having fun in VR land, It's a good challenge. Also not in a hurry to be max lvl like most of you people seem to be.(Maybe that's your problem?)

I have 2 friends to play with and we stay around the same lvl to help each other out when needed.

That is the problem for many, but none of them want to admit that playing a game for more hours in a week than someone spends in a full time job, is crazy.

The game should not be balanced to accommodate that level of play, but they scream that they should be given limitless content. The muppets.

Are you in the right thread? Pretty sure this one is about the long pointless vr grind not being worth it and making people quit long before hitting level cap.

Totally the right thread. The reason we have the pointless long VR grind, is the devs tried to extend the grind for those that do play excessively. It was a dumb idea to try and appease content locusts, now the rest of us are stuck with their grind and it seems we all hate it, lol.

Sakiri

Fleymark wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

He is, indeed. I'm not sure why you would call it "trying" though. He's more than established his credentials as one of the most successful MMO designers the genre has seen yet, if not the most successful.

Sony acquired EQ before release because games need publishers. 989/Verant developed and was left in complete autonomy over it for the first several expansions until Sony realized the potential for revenue from the genre and started pushing it in directions that were not necessarily good for the game. McQuade and the original team left to form a new company to start work on Vanguard. Many say this was the turning point for the game, many, myself included say it came much later. Both, in fairness, are legitimate arguments. But in either case, the game has endured and has enjoyed a steady but slow decline with age and is one of the very few MMOs that van say that after 15 years.

Vanguard suffered from a disasterous release stemming from an administrative change at Microsoft about 8-12 weeks before release. This administrative change brought with it an across the board cut in all non console projects. It was no reflection on the quality of vanguard but kicked it in the knee nontheless. So st the critical time when the lead designer and heart and soul of the game should have been polishing content he, instead, was scrambling to find VC money and a new publisher just to keep the game alive. The whole thing was a complete cluster F that he had very little control over.

So yes, Brad McQuade is developing a new title. I'm not a fan of every design decision he has ever made, by a long shot, but the guy is really good at what he does, arguably the best. To say that he's "trying again" in condescending fashion like that is really pretty obnoxious. Especially considering we are playing a game helmed by a dev that helped run DAoC into the ground with key BAD design decisions and here we are wondering why it's happening in this game.

Speaking of which, the new Mark Jacobs game is the one I'm most excited about, personally.

Im putting a 20 down tight now that he signs it off to SOE like the last two.

And? So what if he does? You say that as if it means something negative about the game. Games need publishers and startup dev houses like the one he's starting now isn't a publisher. Neither was 989/verant so Sony published it. Neither was Sigil so Microsoft published Vanguard until they had sweeping changes in house and Sony picked it up. Get a clue. Somebody has to release games. If it's not Sony it will be someone like it. Every game has a publisher. Can't imagine why anyone would call that a bad thing unless they were completely clueless.

Not the biggest fan of Sony myself because of their love of the cash store, but at least it's not EA.

SOEs games are all f2p.

If he sells it off to SOE like the last two, I guarantee itll turn into the next theme park.

Grindfests dont hold f2p gamers.

ViciousMink

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

ViciousMink wrote: »

My two GP:

Some people loathe 'grinding' quests. (Really? Going through the questlines is 'grinding' now?

When it's doing stories I don't want to do and may already have done on an alt, for specious reasons that insult my intelligence, very slowly for little or no reward other than fighting suddenly super-powered foes with a broken nightblade build just to chase an ever receding level cap that others have exploited their way to in hours?

You absolutely bet i call that a pointless grind.

Suit yourself. I call it 'grinding' when you are hammering away at the same crabs for 200XP each for twelve months, every other night, for 3-4 hours a night, so once a week or two I could get a level that may or may not let me get a new spell or ability, and not get loot or gil, just XP. (And we went to Sarutabaruta uphill BOTH ways! In the ACID SNOW.)

Grinding? Don't talk to ME about grinding, whippersnapper! (We can, however, talk about 'insulting intelligence.' And I get you on the 'exploiting' part -- very little gets me down in this game more than seeing people 'sploit their way to 'endgame.')

terryammon

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks,

We want you to know that we've seen all your feedback and concerns about Veteran Levels, Veteran Content, end-game character progression options, and we're in the process of planning some changes and improvements. We hope to be able to share our plans with you very soon (maybe in the next Road Ahead letter.)

Great... Big problem, lets worry about it next month... not lets fix this for the next patch.

daneyulebub17_ESO

terryammon wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks,

We want you to know that we've seen all your feedback and concerns about Veteran Levels, Veteran Content, end-game character progression options, and we're in the process of planning some changes and improvements. We hope to be able to share our plans with you very soon (maybe in the next Road Ahead letter.)

Great... Big problem, lets worry about it next month... not lets fix this for the next patch.

Yeah, they should just wave their hands and fix it--how long could it possibly take-10 minutes?

Catches_the_Sun

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks,

We want you to know that we've seen all your feedback and concerns about Veteran Levels, Veteran Content, end-game character progression options, and we're in the process of planning some changes and improvements. We hope to be able to share our plans with you very soon (maybe in the next Road Ahead letter.)

Thanks. This is very good to hear. For me ESO is so close to being a great game I could play for years.

Play for years? And this whole discussion is about the inability to reach level cap in a matter of a couple of months? Don't you think people will get bored when they make whatever changes they're going to make that enables you to reach cap sooner?

Catches_the_Sun

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks,

We want you to know that we've seen all your feedback and concerns about Veteran Levels, Veteran Content, end-game character progression options, and we're in the process of planning some changes and improvements. We hope to be able to share our plans with you very soon (maybe in the next Road Ahead letter.)

I really hope you don't go overboard with this. The game is not even 2 months old & changes are continuing to happen that dumb down this game, make it easier, etc etc. For example, people complained that they weren't getting the quest achievements. These were ALREADY obtainable by players that worked at it. What'd you do? You lowered the threshold in some areas to a point where anybody that followed the roads in a zone could complete the quest achievements. In some zones, we did at least a dozen more quests after the achievement was reached. In this case, you've taken Titles that used to mean something and you've dumbed them down to the point where anybody can reach them with little effort.

This mentality concerns me as it applies to Veteran leveling. As it stands now, the majority of players that are VR12 have used an exploit of some kind, whether is was glitching dungeon bosses to respawn or something of that nature. There are some players that have played the game without glitching that are high VR, but I would say most of mid to low VR. Now you're going to make it easier? The rest of us shouldn't have to drink skim milk just because the baby can't eat steak.