Midyear Mayhem - congratz zos

Estin · August 5

Estin wrote: »

So is there anything worth it in this new battleground weekend whitestrake's mayhem? Because it really only seems like a double AP and telvar weekend. Doesn't seem like there's any new rewards, and the pelinal's boon boxes still give pretty bad loot just like it always has.

Spending some time to get boxes, I've opened about 50 or so boxes and the loot is the same as it was back in february and last year. Weren't the boxes supposed to receive a "glow up" in order to compensate the lack of any new rewards or trade bars? Or was that another thing that was broken too that won't be fixed until after the event is over?

Ostonoha · August 6

LPapirius wrote: »

Blackreach has an hour long queue right now, and GH is even longer.

It's a huge mistake to not have added one more real PvP campaign for the event. Most of us will just log out of game and come to forum to complain about this situation before we ever play vengeance.

I'm not sure why I'm surprised, but ZOS just keeps finding new ways to short sheet the PvP community.

cant wait to see the que times on the weekend during prime time.

jle30303 · August 6

Emperor title really needs to have a change. To become just a LITTLE more accessible.

Even now, for most people, the only way to get it is (a) to cheat one's way into it by buying into a cross-faction campaign to hand you the title by basically feeding you APs, or (b) to have got it in one of the smaller, fly-by-night, nearly deserted campaigns during Midyear Mayhem, where it might conceivably be possible to get it with not many people helping, because nobody wants to "home" themselves in one of the temporary campaigns.

Otherwise... the SAME people will get Emperor, over and over and over again, because nobody can catch up with them unless they get bored, it'll be drawn from the same small pool of players. And if you're not right in there on the first day of a campaign, there's literally no way to catch up with someone who was.

I propose the following:

Nobody can become Emperor twice in one campaign (whether it is a week-long or month-long campaign.)

If you gain it, and lose it, and then your faction wins the Empire back again and you're still the highest scorer... You get passed over, and it goes to the next person on the list.

And if the top *two* in the list have already been Emperor in this campaign, it passes over both of them and goes to #3.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's actually my compromise proposal, the extreme one being nobody becomes Emperor twice, *ever*: if you have the title, and your faction gets to crown somebody, you get passed over.

That was my proposal when titles and achievements were character-specific. Would allow the same player to go for Emperor twice or more, but only by doing it on different characters.

But it would probably be too extreme now that titles and achievements are account-wide.

Fischblut · August 6

I miss extra campaigns for Midyear Mayhem, please add them again! There is no place like vast wilderness of Cyrodiil in one of such campaigns; I do not enjoy overcrowded PvP of Grey Host (and Blackreach is overcrowded now too).

Vengeance campaign might as well not exist for me, I only ever went there if it had Golden Pursuit tied to it.

Karivaa · August 6

@

jle30303 wrote: »

Emperor title really needs to have a change. To become just a LITTLE more accessible.

Even now, for most people, the only way to get it is (a) to cheat one's way into it by buying into a cross-faction campaign to hand you the title by basically feeding you APs, or (b) to have got it in one of the smaller, fly-by-night, nearly deserted campaigns during Midyear Mayhem, where it might conceivably be possible to get it with not many people helping, because nobody wants to "home" themselves in one of the temporary campaigns.

Otherwise... the SAME people will get Emperor, over and over and over again, because nobody can catch up with them unless they get bored, it'll be drawn from the same small pool of players. And if you're not right in there on the first day of a campaign, there's literally no way to catch up with someone who was.

I propose the following:

Nobody can become Emperor twice in one campaign (whether it is a week-long or month-long campaign.)

If you gain it, and lose it, and then your faction wins the Empire back again and you're still the highest scorer... You get passed over, and it goes to the next person on the list.

And if the top *two* in the list have already been Emperor in this campaign, it passes over both of them and goes to #3.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's actually my compromise proposal, the extreme one being nobody becomes Emperor twice, *ever*: if you have the title, and your faction gets to crown somebody, you get passed over.

That was my proposal when titles and achievements were character-specific. Would allow the same player to go for Emperor twice or more, but only by doing it on different characters.

But it would probably be too extreme now that titles and achievements are account-wide.

People have been wanting this for years but many of us do not. Why? We worked our butts off to get emp. I spent an entire month non stop playing and didn’t sleep for 3 days before I got crowned emp. I’ll never do it again, but I wear the title proudly.

aetherix8 · August 6

It is quite reasonable to stop opening additional campaigns for MYM if we take into account that:

1. The most recent MYMs saw much lower participation.
2. The event doesn't include trade bars or new style pages anymore.
3. MYM is supposed to happen more often from now on, and without additional campaigns, it can be switched on and off anytime without the need to take down the servers.

I mean, who could have imagined that all those PvEers who were only ever chasing tickets, boxes, and double AP, and who were populating those additional servers in a completely disproportionate way in a bid to avoid PvP as much as possible (server1 - 3 bars EP, 1 bar others; server2 - 3 bars DC, 1 bar others; server3 - 3 bars AD, 1 bar others), would now all eagerly flock to GH and block the queue for GH regulars. Historically, every MYM had an avalanche of complaints of being "forced" to PvP (which was never true, but still players cried a lot), and the last few MYMs saw much lower turnout; once tickets and new style pages are removed from the equation, it is only logical to conclude that there won't be any need for additional servers, since PvEers will simply skip the event entirely. Which surprisingly didn't happen. Still, why they would pick GH is a mystery. If all they want is to ride in an AP train from door to door, wouldn't Vengeance be a much better option, since, as long as item sets are disabled, there are no bombers and no ballgroups to disrupt such a peaceful double AP/gold box farm? Although different factions' trains can still collide on the map, which adds some extra action.

Other than that, I prefer MYM without the additional servers, since it is now impossible to escape PvP. Hopefully, Vengeance gets improved fast as well, so more people are interested in joining it, thus alleviating queues.

Faltasë · August 6

Karivaa wrote: »

@

jle30303 wrote: »

Emperor title really needs to have a change. To become just a LITTLE more accessible.

Even now, for most people, the only way to get it is (a) to cheat one's way into it by buying into a cross-faction campaign to hand you the title by basically feeding you APs, or (b) to have got it in one of the smaller, fly-by-night, nearly deserted campaigns during Midyear Mayhem, where it might conceivably be possible to get it with not many people helping, because nobody wants to "home" themselves in one of the temporary campaigns.

Otherwise... the SAME people will get Emperor, over and over and over again, because nobody can catch up with them unless they get bored, it'll be drawn from the same small pool of players. And if you're not right in there on the first day of a campaign, there's literally no way to catch up with someone who was.

I propose the following:

Nobody can become Emperor twice in one campaign (whether it is a week-long or month-long campaign.)

If you gain it, and lose it, and then your faction wins the Empire back again and you're still the highest scorer... You get passed over, and it goes to the next person on the list.

And if the top *two* in the list have already been Emperor in this campaign, it passes over both of them and goes to #3.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's actually my compromise proposal, the extreme one being nobody becomes Emperor twice, *ever*: if you have the title, and your faction gets to crown somebody, you get passed over.

That was my proposal when titles and achievements were character-specific. Would allow the same player to go for Emperor twice or more, but only by doing it on different characters.

But it would probably be too extreme now that titles and achievements are account-wide.

People have been wanting this for years but many of us do not. Why? We worked our butts off to get emp. I spent an entire month non stop playing and didn’t sleep for 3 days before I got crowned emp. I’ll never do it again, but I wear the title proudly.

You uh... you don't really think that is a flex, right? To become unhealthy over a game title... and you think other people should also become that unhealthy to get it? Wtf.

Faltasë · August 6

They shouldn't have went all in with Vengeance. I think that was their main mistake. Because now it funneled a good chunk of the people who would play the extra mayhem campaigns into the ones that arent vengeance.

This is all Vengeances fault.

JohnRingo · August 6

Faltasë wrote: »

They shouldn't have went all in with Vengeance. I think that was their main mistake. Because now it funneled a good chunk of the people who would play the extra mayhem campaigns into the ones that arent vengeance.

This is all Vengeances fault.

Yeah...it is Vengeances fault. What can we do about those guys?

Karivaa · August 6

Faltasë wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

@

jle30303 wrote: »

Emperor title really needs to have a change. To become just a LITTLE more accessible.

Even now, for most people, the only way to get it is (a) to cheat one's way into it by buying into a cross-faction campaign to hand you the title by basically feeding you APs, or (b) to have got it in one of the smaller, fly-by-night, nearly deserted campaigns during Midyear Mayhem, where it might conceivably be possible to get it with not many people helping, because nobody wants to "home" themselves in one of the temporary campaigns.

Otherwise... the SAME people will get Emperor, over and over and over again, because nobody can catch up with them unless they get bored, it'll be drawn from the same small pool of players. And if you're not right in there on the first day of a campaign, there's literally no way to catch up with someone who was.

I propose the following:

Nobody can become Emperor twice in one campaign (whether it is a week-long or month-long campaign.)

If you gain it, and lose it, and then your faction wins the Empire back again and you're still the highest scorer... You get passed over, and it goes to the next person on the list.

And if the top *two* in the list have already been Emperor in this campaign, it passes over both of them and goes to #3.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's actually my compromise proposal, the extreme one being nobody becomes Emperor twice, *ever*: if you have the title, and your faction gets to crown somebody, you get passed over.

That was my proposal when titles and achievements were character-specific. Would allow the same player to go for Emperor twice or more, but only by doing it on different characters.

But it would probably be too extreme now that titles and achievements are account-wide.

People have been wanting this for years but many of us do not. Why? We worked our butts off to get emp. I spent an entire month non stop playing and didn’t sleep for 3 days before I got crowned emp. I’ll never do it again, but I wear the title proudly.

You uh... you don't really think that is a flex, right? To become unhealthy over a game title... and you think other people should also become that unhealthy to get it? Wtf. [/.
So you want it to be easy? Lolol

Faltasë · August 6

JohnRingo wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

They shouldn't have went all in with Vengeance. I think that was their main mistake. Because now it funneled a good chunk of the people who would play the extra mayhem campaigns into the ones that arent vengeance.

This is all Vengeances fault.

Yeah...it is Vengeances fault. What can we do about those guys?

Let the campaign die. Easiest form of protest.

Faltasë · August 6

Karivaa wrote: »

[/.
So you want it to be easy? Lolol

Did I say I wanted it to be easy? Do you really think it should take a month of only playing PvP and not getting days of sleep and basically becoming an unemployed neet to aquire a TITLE?!?

It should be *easier* but not necessarily easy.

You know, somewhere between having a full time job in real life and real responsibilities and the ability to have a social life versus losing yourself in an online game that won't be alive forever. Somewhere where they meet in the middle would be great?

I think a lot of that though is the fault of the unemployment gang always gaining emperor and never touching grass. If they could have the human decency to let other people take the crown then it would be less of a problem.

You essentially have to neglect real life in order to earn emperor. And if that doesn't scream both egregiously disgusting on behalf of ZoS and legitimately disappointing on behalf of literally all working class folks, then idk what to tell you. You e been manipulated into thinking that is an achievement.

Why do you think so many folks would get emperor on the under level 50 campaigns? Because it didn't take harming yourself in real life to do it. And now that they've taken that away, they've essentially made it so that the only way to get it is being unhealthy in real life. Not hard; Unhealthy.

SeaGtGruff · August 6

Karivaa wrote: »

People have been wanting this for years but many of us do not. Why? We worked our butts off to get emp. I spent an entire month non stop playing and didn’t sleep for 3 days before I got crowned emp. I’ll never do it again, but I wear the title proudly.

Personally, I could not care less if I never get Emperor, although I think it's nice that other players who care about titles and exclusive rewards have those sorts of things that they can earn in the game.

But for something in a videogame to be so difficult to attain that a player would choose to go without sleep for 3 days straight and risk literal death from complete physical exhaustion seems outrageously unhealthy.

Karivaa · August 7

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

People have been wanting this for years but many of us do not. Why? We worked our butts off to get emp. I spent an entire month non stop playing and didn’t sleep for 3 days before I got crowned emp. I’ll never do it again, but I wear the title proudly.

Personally, I could not care less if I never get Emperor, although I think it's nice that other players who care about titles and exclusive rewards have those sorts of things that they can earn in the game.

But for something in a videogame to be so difficult to attain that a player would choose to go without sleep for 3 days straight and risk literal death from complete physical exhaustion seems outrageously unhealthy.

I hear you and understand your point but for me it was huge. Do you do PVE? I do not. I will never earn a title from dungeons or trials. I don’t like them and have tried. The only thing I do is PVP. My emperor run also took a lot of working with my entire faction. You have to have a whole server support your emp run. I don’t have the time for it now. Yes it is a lot of work. During mid year they add other campaigns and they did this time. You can find friends and a PVP guild who can help you in a smaller campaign. If you don’t have a great PVP guild, you won’t get emp. If you don’t have the time, you won’t get emp. It’s the game. It’s the way it is. Earning titles for dungeons also takes a ton of practice.

Fruity_Ninja · August 7

Estin wrote: »

So is there anything worth it in this new battleground weekend whitestrake's mayhem? Because it really only seems like a double AP and telvar weekend. Doesn't seem like there's any new rewards, and the pelinal's boon boxes still give pretty bad loot just like it always has.

The loot is great though- Hakeijo, coldfires, tel var all the good PVP things!

merevie · August 7

No event tickets and no new rewards.

How is this an 'event'?

OsUfi · August 7

merevie wrote: »

No event tickets and no new rewards.

How is this an 'event'?

Double AP and Pelenial Boon Boxes.

Not saying that's good or bad, but it's something. A mini event instead of one of the main ones.

Karivaa · August 7

I wish they would get rid of the stupid books

Dojohoda · August 7

Telvar is the thing I like from the boxes.

Lucasl402 · August 7

aetherix8 wrote: »

It is quite reasonable to stop opening additional campaigns for MYM if we take into account that:

1. The most recent MYMs saw much lower participation.
2. The event doesn't include trade bars or new style pages anymore.
3. MYM is supposed to happen more often from now on, and without additional campaigns, it can be switched on and off anytime without the need to take down the servers.

I mean, who could have imagined that all those PvEers who were only ever chasing tickets, boxes, and double AP, and who were populating those additional servers in a completely disproportionate way in a bid to avoid PvP as much as possible (server1 - 3 bars EP, 1 bar others; server2 - 3 bars DC, 1 bar others; server3 - 3 bars AD, 1 bar others), would now all eagerly flock to GH and block the queue for GH regulars. Historically, every MYM had an avalanche of complaints of being "forced" to PvP (which was never true, but still players cried a lot), and the last few MYMs saw much lower turnout; once tickets and new style pages are removed from the equation, it is only logical to conclude that there won't be any need for additional servers, since PvEers will simply skip the event entirely. Which surprisingly didn't happen. Still, why they would pick GH is a mystery. If all they want is to ride in an AP train from door to door, wouldn't Vengeance be a much better option, since, as long as item sets are disabled, there are no bombers and no ballgroups to disrupt such a peaceful double AP/gold box farm? Although different factions' trains can still collide on the map, which adds some extra action.

Other than that, I prefer MYM without the additional servers, since it is now impossible to escape PvP. Hopefully, Vengeance gets improved fast as well, so more people are interested in joining it, thus alleviating queues.

We know. Your hate for all things PvP is well established at this point.

The big problem is it appears the hate is shared by ZOS and it's employees. They've removed the typical rewards for this event because it's PvP and the PvE'rs will whine about being forced to PvP.

If anyone at ZOS is wondering why there is a PvP vs. PvE mini war going on they only have to look to their own policies to see why.

PoveusRonin · August 7

I don't really PvP, just go in to do the intro quest, but I agree they should have opened up maybe half the amount they usually do for the event.

peacenote · August 8

sshogrin wrote: »

Yea I don’t understand why they did this, PvE gets multiple events a year with trade bars and tickets that PvPers are forced to play if they want said rewards, now we don’t get anything from the PvP events. I understand it was frustrating to PvErs when they came in and got rolled by experienced PvPers but now they have vengeance to go do their quests so there’s no excuse for them to remove rewards from the event.

As PvPers tell PvEers about the PvP events....you aren't forced to do the PvE events if you don't like them.

[/quote]

Since Seasons kicked off the trend seems to have been to try and address as much QoL feedback as possible. I appreciate the effort overall but in this case, it feels misguided.

Lots of us were enjoying getting our trade bars/tickets from this event and had zero complaints. I don't like that a) the PvP event is getting put in its own box and b) losing out on rewards as a result. But from ZOS's view it will probably look like a win because they'll probably get less complaints about it. I think it's a bit of a shame.

Arunei · August 8

Eldovar wrote: »

React wrote: »

They definitely needed to NOT add as many campaigns as they've done in the past - every year we had like 4 campaigns that never saw 1 bar of population, and we have vengeance now as well. But they probably could have still added one cyro campaign, maybe a bonus CP IC campaign.

There are no trade bars, no event tickets and no new PvP rewards. So there is probably no need for 5 campaigns.

So people who don't like PvP are for the first time not forced to play. They kept their word about no FOMO-events this time

What are you talking about? You wouldn't be "forced" to PvP even if Midyear still gave Trade Bars just like you aren't "forced" to do any PvE Event you don't like. The whole point of changing Event Tickets to a Currency that's unlimited was so people didn't have to essentially play every Event to get that Event's rewards.

There's 0 FOMO when it comes to getting Trade Bars. All taking anything unique from Midyear did was reduce the rewards people get for PvPing. And as someone who rarely PvPs even I can see how that's not a good thing.

Einar_Hrafnarsson · August 8

I logged in Today after coming Home and wanted to do some Cyro.... 46 Min queue? I logged out instantly and did something else.

aetherix8 · 5:28AM

Lucasl402 wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

It is quite reasonable to stop opening additional campaigns for MYM if we take into account that:

1. The most recent MYMs saw much lower participation.
2. The event doesn't include trade bars or new style pages anymore.
3. MYM is supposed to happen more often from now on, and without additional campaigns, it can be switched on and off anytime without the need to take down the servers.

I mean, who could have imagined that all those PvEers who were only ever chasing tickets, boxes, and double AP, and who were populating those additional servers in a completely disproportionate way in a bid to avoid PvP as much as possible (server1 - 3 bars EP, 1 bar others; server2 - 3 bars DC, 1 bar others; server3 - 3 bars AD, 1 bar others), would now all eagerly flock to GH and block the queue for GH regulars. Historically, every MYM had an avalanche of complaints of being "forced" to PvP (which was never true, but still players cried a lot), and the last few MYMs saw much lower turnout; once tickets and new style pages are removed from the equation, it is only logical to conclude that there won't be any need for additional servers, since PvEers will simply skip the event entirely. Which surprisingly didn't happen. Still, why they would pick GH is a mystery. If all they want is to ride in an AP train from door to door, wouldn't Vengeance be a much better option, since, as long as item sets are disabled, there are no bombers and no ballgroups to disrupt such a peaceful double AP/gold box farm? Although different factions' trains can still collide on the map, which adds some extra action.

Other than that, I prefer MYM without the additional servers, since it is now impossible to escape PvP. Hopefully, Vengeance gets improved fast as well, so more people are interested in joining it, thus alleviating queues.

We know. Your hate for all things PvP is well established at this point.

The big problem is it appears the hate is shared by ZOS and it's employees. They've removed the typical rewards for this event because it's PvP and the PvE'rs will whine about being forced to PvP.

If anyone at ZOS is wondering why there is a PvP vs. PvE mini war going on they only have to look to their own policies to see why.

ZOS removed tickets from the Undaunted too; I guess it must be down to PvPers who hate PvE and whine all the time about being forced to do dungeons to get gear. ZOS must truly hate all their players /s

This PvE vs. PvP war is in your head only. Most players do both.

Edit /s: Would it be conceivable that ZOS appreciates and tries to accommodate its entire playerbase? Nah, unthinkable; everyone knows that frustrated players play more and spend more money on the game.

Estin · 8:13AM

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

So is there anything worth it in this new battleground weekend whitestrake's mayhem? Because it really only seems like a double AP and telvar weekend. Doesn't seem like there's any new rewards, and the pelinal's boon boxes still give pretty bad loot just like it always has.

The loot is great though- Hakeijo, coldfires, tel var all the good PVP things!

I've gotten around 4m AP in total so far since the event started. Of the loot from the pelinal boxes, I've gotten roughly 10k telvar, 3 hakeijos, and 4 coldfire ballistas. This is pretty much the same exact loot I've gotten in february. It was mentioned on the PTS threads that to make up for the shorter week and lack of rewards, the boxes would receive a "glow-up" in their rewards. They said it was broken on the PTS the week whitestrake's ran on there, but it looks like it's still broken because the loot is no different from before. No increased drops for the current items nor fragment drops for the war torte recipe. Considering how the population bars are broken and how quests are still giving trade bars when they're not supposed to, I'm going to say that the entire event itself is bugged and none of their proposed changes to the event even worked. I won't be surprised if the event will run for 14 days like it always did.

beer781993 · 10:36AM

Estin wrote: »

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

So is there anything worth it in this new battleground weekend whitestrake's mayhem? Because it really only seems like a double AP and telvar weekend. Doesn't seem like there's any new rewards, and the pelinal's boon boxes still give pretty bad loot just like it always has.

The loot is great though- Hakeijo, coldfires, tel var all the good PVP things!

I've gotten around 4m AP in total so far since the event started. Of the loot from the pelinal boxes, I've gotten roughly 10k telvar, 3 hakeijos, and 4 coldfire ballistas. This is pretty much the same exact loot I've gotten in february. It was mentioned on the PTS threads that to make up for the shorter week and lack of rewards, the boxes would receive a "glow-up" in their rewards. They said it was broken on the PTS the week whitestrake's ran on there, but it looks like it's still broken because the loot is no different from before. No increased drops for the current items nor fragment drops for the war torte recipe. Considering how the population bars are broken and how quests are still giving trade bars when they're not supposed to, I'm going to say that the entire event itself is bugged and none of their proposed changes to the event even worked. I won't be surprised if the event will run for 14 days like it always did.

Dude, you realise if you are at lvl 101 veterancy, you keep getting veterancy bags on top of everything. In nearly every second bag is a nirncrux, golden upgrade material, aetheric dust etc...

If you're smart and keep riding the train you will be crazy rich. It's beyond broken.

Np for the tip, I got already 200+ bags.

SeaGtGruff · 2:40PM

Karivaa wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

People have been wanting this for years but many of us do not. Why? We worked our butts off to get emp. I spent an entire month non stop playing and didn’t sleep for 3 days before I got crowned emp. I’ll never do it again, but I wear the title proudly.

Personally, I could not care less if I never get Emperor, although I think it's nice that other players who care about titles and exclusive rewards have those sorts of things that they can earn in the game.

But for something in a videogame to be so difficult to attain that a player would choose to go without sleep for 3 days straight and risk literal death from complete physical exhaustion seems outrageously unhealthy.

I hear you and understand your point but for me it was huge. Do you do PVE? I do not. I will never earn a title from dungeons or trials. I don’t like them and have tried. The only thing I do is PVP. My emperor run also took a lot of working with my entire faction. You have to have a whole server support your emp run. I don’t have the time for it now. Yes it is a lot of work. During mid year they add other campaigns and they did this time. You can find friends and a PVP guild who can help you in a smaller campaign. If you don’t have a great PVP guild, you won’t get emp. If you don’t have the time, you won’t get emp. It’s the game. It’s the way it is. Earning titles for dungeons also takes a ton of practice.

I was watching a streamer who (when he asked what I was up to and I said playing ESO while watching his stream) said that he used to love playing ESO, PvP in particular, and had been in a PvP guild. He pushed for Emperor one week, playing hours at a time for day after day, was in the lead for his alliance (AD), and kept pressing the other players to take the last keep needed to get crowned Emperor, but they all insisted on going after every other keep or outpost or town on the map except the keep he needed to make Emp. So eventually he had to log off from being so fatigued or having something else he had to do, and once he logged off the player in second place (who I guess was the main player arguing against taking that last keep) pushed to overtake him on the leaderboard, got his buddies to help him capture that last keep, and got crowned Emperor.

I believe I have heard other streamers or forum posters tell similar stories. It would seem there's a lot of what one might call "politics" and (let's be blunt) "backstabbing" in the cut-throat world of PvP. It seems to be one of the things about PvP in this game which drives some PvP players away from the game.