[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

DrNukenstein · June 19

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

And, Abilities as passives would probably normally have reduced effects to incentivise using them as actives instead of passives.

Buff Abilities passively granting their buffs would reduce max resource by their cost, which btw reduces your damage output by reducing your max resource. That would be the balancing for that.

This is so close to a great idea for ALL classes. Getting to slot say, 5 passives instead of benefiting from every single passive you have the skill points for. Would probably require a rebalance of nearly every passive, but would bring in a wild new era of theory crafting for this game while reigning in some of the insane power creep of the hybrid meta.

Make it happen, update 45. Prune our power and make us make decisions.

It expands power not prunes it.
It's not the passives you are slotting, true passives are unaffected by that Idea of mine.
The Idea is for turning ACTIVE abilities, ones you slot and cast, into an alternate variation.
Allowing you to slot more useless abilities to gain their effects without having to spam them or waste true ability slots.
Like Magelight and Flare. Put those in the passive bar to gain crit bonus and protection without wasting a casting slot for such a meager bonus.
It does NOT affect true passives.

YO THE GAME DOES NOT NEED MOAR POWER CREEP

KaironBlackbard · June 19

DrNukenstein wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

And, Abilities as passives would probably normally have reduced effects to incentivise using them as actives instead of passives.

Buff Abilities passively granting their buffs would reduce max resource by their cost, which btw reduces your damage output by reducing your max resource. That would be the balancing for that.

This is so close to a great idea for ALL classes. Getting to slot say, 5 passives instead of benefiting from every single passive you have the skill points for. Would probably require a rebalance of nearly every passive, but would bring in a wild new era of theory crafting for this game while reigning in some of the insane power creep of the hybrid meta.

Make it happen, update 45. Prune our power and make us make decisions.

It expands power not prunes it.
It's not the passives you are slotting, true passives are unaffected by that Idea of mine.
The Idea is for turning ACTIVE abilities, ones you slot and cast, into an alternate variation.
Allowing you to slot more useless abilities to gain their effects without having to spam them or waste true ability slots.
Like Magelight and Flare. Put those in the passive bar to gain crit bonus and protection without wasting a casting slot for such a meager bonus.
It does NOT affect true passives.

YO THE GAME DOES NOT NEED MOAR POWER CREEP

It's not really power creep. The cost of slotting abilities reduces your max resources, thus reducing your damage output and survivability.

DrNukenstein · June 19

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

It's not really power creep. The cost of slotting abilities reduces your max resources, thus reducing your damage output and survivability.

That would be giving every one their own customizable oakensoul ring but with 2 bars.

KaironBlackbard · June 19

DrNukenstein wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

It's not really power creep. The cost of slotting abilities reduces your max resources, thus reducing your damage output and survivability.

That would be giving every one their own customizable oakensoul ring but with 2 bars.

Except with fewer perks than oakensoul, and a great cost to your resources.
By having that many abilities, you wouldn't have any resources and your damage would be too low to do any good.

That said, there should be various forms for slotting. Free for only its slotted benefits, which most have few or none.
Costly for altered (normally weakened) skill effects.
Magelight for instance would reduce Max Magicka by 5000 and grant you a 3 meter radius of revealing effect.
That reduces your magic damage by 1000 due to the Magicka loss.
And free slotting for its slotted benefit of Major Prophecy and Savagery.

Not all classes have a way to get all the perks oakensoul provides.

Nightblade:
Dark cloak (minor protection)
Shadowy Disguise, Magelight, Hunter (Major Savagery and Prophecy)
Flare (Major Protection)
Siphoning Strikes (heal once per seconds when you deal damage)
I think that's all the slotted bonusses they get?
No, one more: Soul Harvest morph of Death Stroke, gain Ultimate on kill

Other perks that would cost
Blur/Mirage/BladeCloak/Evasion (Major Evasion)
Mirage (Minor Resolve)
Dark Cloak cost version: weak constant heal over time, Major Resolve (Shadow Passive proc) (may have extra cost)
Resolving Vigor, 7000 max stamina reduction for constant heal over time and Minor Resolve. Didn't that used to be Major?
Etc.
Can't seem to think of one for Berserk.
Power Extraction: 4000 max magicka reduction for Major Brutality and Sorcery for 20 seconds when you hit an enemy, probably with an area attack, which limits how it procs.
Courage Morph: Also grants you Courage and applies Cowardice to the enemy(ies) when it procs.
Sap Essence: Area attacks also heal you and allies, with improved healing per enemy hit.

People keep dissing Sap Essence, but it is honestly a good healer skill.
Mixes AoE damage, AoE Heal, and buffs your damage if you hit an enemy with it.
You can even use it out of combat to heal yourself and allies. Very good for a group of T4 Vamp Nightblades.

If it gets changed to heal off damage dealt, it will no longer do out of combat heals, which is actually one of the main ways I use it. It will become a useless healer ability. It will lose its healer usefulness that I use it for.

Now, if it would also grant the buffs to allies healed if you hit an enemy also, THAT would be fun. Then I could buff my whole group and heal them at the same time while damaging all enemies around me.
That would be fun.

DrNukenstein · June 19

A way to passively slot minor and major buffs and a portion of their active effect as a passive effect at an initially very high cost to "max resources"

If it cost 5000 max mag or stam to slot one effect it would be very bad for anyone to engage with such a system. If it costs a reasonable amount its just giving people more power they can cram into their build. That is the problem with the game today. Do you be crazy tanky with good damage or good tanky with crazy damage?

Where as making it so a build can slot 5 of their unlocked passive effects would make people for example decide if they want the undaunted stat bonuses or have vamp3

KaironBlackbard · June 20

you know they will never do as you are requesting.

DrNukenstein · June 20

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

you know they will never do as you are requesting.

same to you friend

Luna_the_Rat · June 22

Luna_the_Rat wrote: »

My biggest issues on Nightblade ATM :

- Far too many things in PVP pull us out of Shadowy Disguise. My own poison dot causes a recast, Sorc's targeted, sticky abilities, Streak. Those calling for a recast debuff are not advocating that shadowy disguise be worth the initial cast every time, and I would like to see this change made to help Stamblade actually use Shadowy Disguise to disengage successfully.

- Players pinpoint my exact position in Shadowy Disguise regularly, without any source of Reveal.

- Incapacitating Strike feels like it misses / whiffs on dodge > wasted ult very frequently. DK Leap is targeted for comparison's sake. On hit, Incap. Strike is fine, but I feel like for an Ultimate ability it hits infrequently, the cast time is clunky on the upgraded version, and results in an entirely wasted ult far too frequently for the duration of stun > break free.

I would also point out that Ambush is super clunky. The slight cast time is seriously holding this move back when coupled with its awkward range. The only thing that keeps this move on my bar is the stun from stealth + the nice buffs on hit.

KaironBlackbard · June 23

Luna_the_Rat wrote: »

Luna_the_Rat wrote: »

My biggest issues on Nightblade ATM :

- Far too many things in PVP pull us out of Shadowy Disguise. My own poison dot causes a recast, Sorc's targeted, sticky abilities, Streak. Those calling for a recast debuff are not advocating that shadowy disguise be worth the initial cast every time, and I would like to see this change made to help Stamblade actually use Shadowy Disguise to disengage successfully.

- Players pinpoint my exact position in Shadowy Disguise regularly, without any source of Reveal.

- Incapacitating Strike feels like it misses / whiffs on dodge > wasted ult very frequently. DK Leap is targeted for comparison's sake. On hit, Incap. Strike is fine, but I feel like for an Ultimate ability it hits infrequently, the cast time is clunky on the upgraded version, and results in an entirely wasted ult far too frequently for the duration of stun > break free.

I would also point out that Ambush is super clunky. The slight cast time is seriously holding this move back when coupled with its awkward range. The only thing that keeps this move on my bar is the stun from stealth + the nice buffs on hit.

Not just Ambush, but ALL versions of it. Including Teleport Strike and Lotus Fan.

Luna_the_Rat · June 23

DrNukenstein wrote: »

A way to passively slot minor and major buffs and a portion of their active effect as a passive effect at an initially very high cost to "max resources"

If it cost 5000 max mag or stam to slot one effect it would be very bad for anyone to engage with such a system. If it costs a reasonable amount its just giving people more power they can cram into their build. That is the problem with the game today. Do you be crazy tanky with good damage or good tanky with crazy damage?

Where as making it so a build can slot 5 of their unlocked passive effects would make people for example decide if they want the undaunted stat bonuses or have vamp3

I would love build diversity, I hope we can leave this Tank meta behind as a community, but most builds ive seen in 2024 are 64 hp with no sacrifice to damage. A shakeup in pvp is neeeded towards damage dealers mattering, and your choices to be mostly unkillable *should* mean the end of anything but supplementary damage on the Tanks part. But here we are, I just played with an enemy Arcanist that did 3M damage in a Battleground and never came close to dying once. Dev response?

KaironBlackbard · June 24

Luna_the_Rat wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

A way to passively slot minor and major buffs and a portion of their active effect as a passive effect at an initially very high cost to "max resources"

If it cost 5000 max mag or stam to slot one effect it would be very bad for anyone to engage with such a system. If it costs a reasonable amount its just giving people more power they can cram into their build. That is the problem with the game today. Do you be crazy tanky with good damage or good tanky with crazy damage?

Where as making it so a build can slot 5 of their unlocked passive effects would make people for example decide if they want the undaunted stat bonuses or have vamp3

I would love build diversity, I hope we can leave this Tank meta behind as a community, but most builds ive seen in 2024 are 64 hp with no sacrifice to damage. A shakeup in pvp is neeeded towards damage dealers mattering, and your choices to be mostly unkillable *should* mean the end of anything but supplementary damage on the Tanks part. But here we are, I just played with an enemy Arcanist that did 3M damage in a Battleground and never came close to dying once. Dev response?

I don't know how yall can say tanks dont lose damage.
Every tank build I've made doesn't top 2k damage, unless they are below level 25.
But as for max level, my best tank damage to date is 1.8k. 12k penetration, Harbinger, 42k max HP. 28k armor. Block tank.
17k Mag and 19k stam.
Even then, all my tank builds may be practically invulnerable in PvE, but in PvP they are instantly killed.
Hence why Block Tank was my next best bet. He has the longest survival rates, and the Harbinger damage sometimes has effectiveness against the enemy, though normally they instaheal every bit of damage it deals. Only rookies who flurry or arcanist beam me are really effected by it. I've yet to see someone use the Bow Ult or Soul Ult on me yet.
I alternate between Ice Staff and Sword & Shield to keep my block up when my resource gets low, alternating to keep it up.
He has the longest survival time. Though moderate to strong enemies still take him out in under 30 seconds.
How people can be invincible and do insane damage is beyond me.
Half the time I want to report them for hacking, because I see no feasible way they could possibly be that powerful. Not with the current systems in place.

KaironBlackbard · June 24

DrNukenstein wrote: »

A way to passively slot minor and major buffs and a portion of their active effect as a passive effect at an initially very high cost to "max resources"

If it cost 5000 max mag or stam to slot one effect it would be very bad for anyone to engage with such a system. If it costs a reasonable amount its just giving people more power they can cram into their build. That is the problem with the game today. Do you be crazy tanky with good damage or good tanky with crazy damage?

Where as making it so a build can slot 5 of their unlocked passive effects would make people for example decide if they want the undaunted stat bonuses or have vamp3

The cost is the cost of the skill.
Magelight has an insane cost, so to get its reveal effect at all times would murder your magicka.

Mirage is roughly a 2k mag cost, and would give you Major Evasion and minor resolve at all times, with the roll dodge perk it gives. Morph of Blur, which doesn't have minor resolve.
Why do class skills have way more benefit and much less cost than general skills?

Let's make a build hypothesis shall we? What class are you, and what buff skills do you spam in combat?

DrNukenstein · June 24

Luna_the_Rat wrote: »

I would love build diversity, I hope we can leave this Tank meta behind as a community, but most builds ive seen in 2024 are 64 hp with no sacrifice to damage. A shakeup in pvp is neeeded towards damage dealers mattering, and your choices to be mostly unkillable *should* mean the end of anything but supplementary damage on the Tanks part. But here we are, I just played with an enemy Arcanist that did 3M damage in a Battleground and never came close to dying once. Dev response?

I don't even think Hybridization is the problem, it's how much power is crammed into a "complete" character with all the passives and the fact that like 2/3's of all skills generate at least one buff and/or debuff.

But I'm sure the foreheads would reduce a change like that to only 3 options for any given build.

KaironBlackbard · June 24

The purpose of this idea is to ease the burden off people. Quality of life improvement basically.
They no longer have to watch timers or resources when spamming their buffs.
They will have those buffs.
The cost, less max resource, but in not having to spam the buff they get to cast their attacks more.
Also, less damage, caused by less max resource.
It's nowhere near oakensoul power.

Oakensoul:
Minor Berserk, Minor Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Minor Force, Minor Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Mending, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, Minor Heroism, Minor Slayer, Minor Aegis, and Empower.
17 buffs.

Buffs from slotting here: 10 tops. Probably not even of quality to Oakensoul's. Buffs of quality normally are singular buffs, and would thus not have as many buffs on them by doing so.

However, I still see people using Oakensoul, even with this capability.

And, in being universally used, unlike oakensoul, it remains more balanced than oakensoul.

Ones I'd end up putting on this bar:
Radiant Magelight, Flare, Mirage, possibly the Hunter fighters guild skill.
Might put Resolving Vigor if it grants a permanent heal over time, otherwise I still wouldn't use it because Mirage has the resolve already, as well as Major Evasion.
If the Shade becomes a permanent follower this way, I might put it there.
Most other skills are attacks. Not many buffs.
I'd stick Soul Harvest in as free for its slotted bonus of Ultimate gain on kill.
Might stick Siphoning Strikes here too.
I don't use Soul Harvest much, currently my primary is using Spell Wall and Ice Storm. I don't find much use for NB Ults.
Concealed weapon is always on my backbar for the movement bonus, I'm probably gonna keep it there even with the passive bar stuff, because it does make a good attack sometimes.
If I can get precognition (morph of undo), I might stick it passively as well for its Minor Protection while slotted bonus.
As ult would have only one slot, you'd have to choose one or the other. Or if it has backbar capability, as long as you aren't using oakensoul, you could slot the one in backbar and other in main bar.
In my case, I'd just stick with soul harvest. If I'm getting too banged up, might swap it to Precog once I get the skill tree and required level for it. As is now, PvE I'm OP, PvP I'm toast. Not even precog would help with PvP. I'd just stick with Soul Harvest.

Some of those everyone can get, and most people hate slotting them because it wastes an attack slot. Many others wish those abilities would grant the effect from the backbar.
If they do this, then people could slot it passively on both bars and then be able to use the abilities that make them their class, granting class diversity instead of global synchronicity. If you know what I mean by that.

As is now, many are the same, having only 3 active skills, half the time people use weapon instead of class skills.
Everyone slots flare. Major Protection.
Everyone slots either hunter or magelight. Critical buffs, either damage or magicka. If Magelight, probably radiant magelight for immunity to stun from sneak attacks. At least one person in every coordinated group runs Radiant Magelight that so their group cannot be stunned by stealth attacks.
Leaves only 3 slots for other skills.
Leaves little room for class diversity.

Slot those passively and then you have more room to be your class.

DrNukenstein · June 24

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Some of those everyone can get, and most people hate slotting them because it wastes an attack slot. Many others wish those abilities would grant the effect from the backbar.
If they do this, then people could slot it passively on both bars and then be able to use the abilities that make them their class, granting class diversity instead of global synchronicity. If you know what I mean by that.

As is now, many are the same, having only 3 active skills, half the time people use weapon instead of class skills.
Everyone slots flare. Major Protection.
Everyone slots either hunter or magelight. Critical buffs, either damage or magicka. If Magelight, probably radiant magelight for immunity to stun from sneak attacks. At least one person in every coordinated group runs Radiant Magelight that so their group cannot be stunned by stealth attacks.
Leaves only 3 slots for other skills.
Leaves little room for class diversity.

Slot those passively and then you have more room to be your class.

Every second, you can use one skill. Whether it's an offensive or a defensive skill. If that skill is going to be a dot, you better hope that fight is going to last at least 20 more seconds (or 22 if it's the mages guild one lol). If that skill is going to be AOE you should be hitting more than 2 people for it to be a good use of that second. An execute only outdamages a spammable under 25% health, and a second spammable for ranged poke is suboptimal on a build in most cases. If you are a nightblade, there is a very highbar to clear for something other than incap, veiled strike, or spectral bow to be the [attack] idea for that second. A build is focused on a thing, not everything.

You don't need or want any more than that. Other burst builds are in a similar boat. They only have 3 or 4 skills that they use offensively and fill the rest of the space with buffs and utility. Where it gets different is pressure builds which do use their slots for buffs similarly, except those buffs usually also cast dots on a target instead of casting on themselves for a utility effect (example: venom arrow vs momentum)

Its not that build requirements limit build diversity when it comes to how many attacks you can fit, it's the action economy and what makes an idea a good idea in a fast paced and sweaty environment. An advantage to this supposed lack of space for damage skills is it simplifies decision making. Taking heat? Use defense rotation and/or mobility skill. Comfortable/not focused? push damage button.

KaironBlackbard · June 25

In PvE, all I need is Pierce Armor and Lotus Fan. I do have Flare slotted. Also Guarded Stance. Currently forgetting what the 2nd is. Perhaps I put cloak there?
1, pierce, 2?, 3: Lotus Fan, 4: Guarded Stance, 5: Lingering Flare, Ult: Spell Wall.
Back: Ice Staff, mostly unused. If cloak isn't on shield, it's on that bar. Didn't have space for Flare though...
Checking...
Ok, currently running staff levelling, not primarying shield.
Ice Staff: Lotus Fan, Frost Impulse, Overflowing Altar, Magelight, Lingering Flare, Ice Storm
Shield: Piece Armor, Defensive Stance, Refreshing Path, Merciless Resolve, Leeching Strikes, Spell Wall
Thews of the Harbinger and Shattering Fate

And honestly, Shield Wall / Spell Wall doesn't seem to last long enough to block 3 attacks. Only really useful when cast to parry a rapid fire ability, like Flurry or Ballista.
Speaking of Ballista/BowUlt, if You pair Spell wall + Thews of the Harbinger, the opponent is obliterated.
Spell wall returns blocked projectiles right back at the attacker, and Harbinger damages the attacker when you block their attack. Therefore Double Jeopardy vs Projectiles.
Guarded Stance / Defensive Stance reflects one projectile per cast of it, as well as grants a 12.4k damage shield, 6.2k in PvP.
I wish I could always reflect bolts while blocking, that would be fun!

Since everyone seems to have 90k penetration, I've decided to move on to another build type.
Meditate + Flare (Major Protection) + Deliberation Passive + Radiant Magelight + Light of Cyrodiil + Buffer of the Swift + Esoteric Environment Greaves + High Elf + Many champion points + Mend Wounds + Bound Aegis (Minor protection and a resolve) + Pets (Volatile Familiar / Twilight Tormentor)
Hypothetically immune to direct damage, and can channel the healing onto a pet whenever you are knocked out of meditate.
May want to get something that grants Evasion though. Can't use the Medium Armor one because in full Light. Also, DoT is your nemesis.

Ok. Just went through grabbing my Imperial City dalies.
It took 7+ people to take me out. Nobles District. That was my only death this run.
Scratch that, a duo got me in Arboretum.
One bowman almost soloed me in Memorial District but a random ally appeared and ganked him.
The bowman had to stop firing when I popped Spell Wall, he almost killed himself. That's when my ally appeared and ganked him. A warden, not a nightblade, my ally was.

master_vanargand · July 7

Nightblade has many problems, but there are 3 main ones.

The first problem is that Nightblade is the worst performing PvE DPS.
Compared to PvE Top tier classes, Nightblade's single dps is over 10% worse.
Of course, AoE DPS is also at the bottom. And skill rotation is the most complex.
Designed as a DPS when ESO started, Nightblade suffers as the worst DPS in its 10th anniversary.

There are many ways and ideas to solve this problem, but I think a simple solution is better.
Here are some simple ideas to buff PvE Nightblade DPS.

[Requests for improvements to Nightblade]

Increase Death Stroke's duration and reduce its ult cost. (For example, if the Ult cost is 60 and the duration is 12 seconds, the DPS increase is about 5%. "Soul Harvest" does less damage than "Incapacitating Strike" and does not have the special effect of 120 ult, so few people seem to use "Soul Harvest" in PvE or PvP. There are many reasons why Nightblade uses "Incapacitating Strike" in PvE, such as when DPS often accumulate 120 ults while dealing with boss gimmicks, or when DPS want to get ahead of other DPS by attacking the first. "Soul Harvest" on the current live server seems to have no use other than solo use, because there aren't many Trials bosses with a lot of adds. If "Soul Harvest" ult cost becomes 60 and effect duration becomes 12 seconds, PvE DPS Nightblade will choose "Soul Harvest". )
Passive ability "Magicka Flood" increases stamina and magicka. (Rename it to "Power Flood". If this is not done, Cannot be called the hybridization. Also, please change the activation condition of the passive skill to "While slotted Siphoning skills on either bar".)
Change passive abilitie "Hemorrhage" to "While slotted Assassination skills on either bar". (The current problem, PvE DPS Nightblade is forced to use Assassination ult skill on both bars. If only one bar is OK, without reducing DPS, NB can change the back bar ult slot to AoE Damage ult skill.)
Increases passive abilitie "Pressure Points" from 438 (2%) to 657 (3%). (This is the easiest and most reliable way to increase the DPS of PvE Nightblade.)
Need the duration of "Twisting Path" to be increased without reducing the DPS. (Namely, make it 15 sec instead of 12 sec. Making it the same time as the 15 second weapon skill on the backbar would make skill rotation easier. Changes the duration of this skill or Dark Veil.)
Add the effect of "Effects additional enemies near your initial target. (+3 targets)" without reducing the DPS of "Cripple". (Making it a splitting skill increases the AoE damage. However, damage should not be reduced from what it is currently on the live server. Single DPS should not be reduced.)
Add "Now deals its damage in an area around the initial target as well." to "Killer's Blade". (Anyway, since the AoE is lacking, need add splitting damage like "Reverse Slice".)
Change all stamina morph skills of Nightblade such as Killer's Blade to "Bleed Damage" and unify them. (Incapacitating Strike, Killer's Blade, Ambush, Relentless Focus, Surprise Attack, Power Extraction.)
Changes and buff the effects of "Consuming Darkness and its morphs" probably the weakest ultimate skill in ESO.
Need change the duration of the passive ability "Shadow Barrier" of 15-20 seconds.(Do not associate class passive abilities with heavy armor.)
The idea of Shadow Cloak "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Buff" is great.
I wish the game creator would give that idea to the "Assassination" and "Siphoning" skills as well.
I think need add "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery" to Siphoning Strikes.
And remove the "Brutality and Sorcery" from Drain Power and give it buff something better.(For example, it would be great if you could give yourself and all 11 members of your group Minor Courage in Drain Power.)

The second problem is that of red light.
It is discussed in the thread below.

[Grim Focus Permaglow]

Jazraena wrote: »

Grim Focus now makes your weapons permanently glow just for having the ability slotted

The third issue is a stealth destruction bug that many players are exploiting in PvP.
In an update a few years ago, invisible and stealth were no longer broken by single or AoE DoTs.
Only AoE direct damage, Detection potion, and Detection skill can destroy invisible and stealth.
But "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
This is a bug. There are many players exploiting the bug.
Please fix this bug quickly.

[Elemental Susceptibility and Structured Entropy destroy invisible]

master_vanargand wrote: »

In an update a few years ago, invisible and stealth were no longer broken by single or AoE DoTs.
Only AoE direct damage, Detection potion, and Detection skill can destroy invisible and stealth.
But "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
This is a bug, I tested how this happens.

Below is a video of me testing the bug.

[ESO]"Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible[BUG]
https://youtu.be/GOTjX6kePkQ

[Test]
Testing "Structured Entropy", destroy invisible.

Testing "Normal DoT skill", Invisible will be maintained.

Testing "Elemental Susceptibility", destroy invisible.

Testing "Overcharged of Status effect ", Invisible will be maintained.

KaironBlackbard · July 8

master_vanargand wrote: »

Nightblade has many problems, but there are 3 main ones.

The first problem is that Nightblade is the worst performing PvE DPS.
Compared to PvE Top tier classes, Nightblade's single dps is over 10% worse.
Of course, AoE DPS is also at the bottom. And skill rotation is the most complex.
Designed as a DPS when ESO started, Nightblade suffers as the worst DPS in its 10th anniversary.

There are many ways and ideas to solve this problem, but I think a simple solution is better.
Here are some simple ideas to buff PvE Nightblade DPS.

[Requests for improvements to Nightblade]
Increase Death Stroke's duration and reduce its ult cost. (For example, if the Ult cost is 60 and the duration is 12 seconds, the DPS increase is about 5%. "Soul Harvest" does less damage than "Incapacitating Strike" and does not have the special effect of 120 ult, so few people seem to use "Soul Harvest" in PvE or PvP. There are many reasons why Nightblade uses "Incapacitating Strike" in PvE, such as when DPS often accumulate 120 ults while dealing with boss gimmicks, or when DPS want to get ahead of other DPS by attacking the first. "Soul Harvest" on the current live server seems to have no use other than solo use, because there aren't many Trials bosses with a lot of adds. If "Soul Harvest" ult cost becomes 60 and effect duration becomes 12 seconds, PvE DPS Nightblade will choose "Soul Harvest". )

Passive ability "Magicka Flood" increases stamina and magicka. (Rename it to "Power Flood". If this is not done, Cannot be called the hybridization. Also, please change the activation condition of the passive skill to "While slotted Siphoning skills on either bar".)

Change passive abilitie "Hemorrhage" to "While slotted Assassination skills on either bar". (The current problem, PvE DPS Nightblade is forced to use Assassination ult skill on both bars. If only one bar is OK, without reducing DPS, NB can change the back bar ult slot to AoE Damage ult skill.)

Increases passive abilitie "Pressure Points" from 438 (2%) to 657 (3%). (This is the easiest and most reliable way to increase the DPS of PvE Nightblade.)

Need the duration of "Twisting Path" to be increased without reducing the DPS. (Namely, make it 15 sec instead of 12 sec. Making it the same time as the 15 second weapon skill on the backbar would make skill rotation easier. Changes the duration of this skill or Dark Veil.)

Add the effect of "Effects additional enemies near your initial target. (+3 targets)" without reducing the DPS of "Cripple". (Making it a splitting skill increases the AoE damage. However, damage should not be reduced from what it is currently on the live server. Single DPS should not be reduced.)

Add "Now deals its damage in an area around the initial target as well." to "Killer's Blade". (Anyway, since the AoE is lacking, need add splitting damage like "Reverse Slice".)

Change all stamina morph skills of Nightblade such as Killer's Blade to "Bleed Damage" and unify them. (Incapacitating Strike, Killer's Blade, Ambush, Relentless Focus, Surprise Attack, Power Extraction.)

Changes and buff the effects of "Consuming Darkness and its morphs" probably the weakest ultimate skill in ESO.

Need change the duration of the passive ability "Shadow Barrier" of 15-20 seconds.(Do not associate class passive abilities with heavy armor.)

The idea of Shadow Cloak "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Buff" is great.
I wish the game creator would give that idea to the "Assassination" and "Siphoning" skills as well.
I think need add "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery" to Siphoning Strikes.
And remove the "Brutality and Sorcery" from Drain Power and give it buff something better.(For example, it would be great if you could give yourself and all 11 members of your group Minor Courage in Drain Power.)

The second problem is that of red light.
It is discussed in the thread below.

[Grim Focus Permaglow]

Jazraena wrote: »

Grim Focus now makes your weapons permanently glow just for having the ability slotted

The third issue is a stealth destruction bug that many players are exploiting in PvP.
In an update a few years ago, invisible and stealth were no longer broken by single or AoE DoTs.
Only AoE direct damage, Detection potion, and Detection skill can destroy invisible and stealth.
But "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
This is a bug. There are many players exploiting the bug.
Please fix this bug quickly.

[Elemental Susceptibility and Structured Entropy destroy invisible]

master_vanargand wrote: »

In an update a few years ago, invisible and stealth were no longer broken by single or AoE DoTs.
Only AoE direct damage, Detection potion, and Detection skill can destroy invisible and stealth.
But "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
This is a bug, I tested how this happens.

Below is a video of me testing the bug.

[ESO]"Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible[BUG]
https://youtu.be/GOTjX6kePkQ

[Test]
Testing "Structured Entropy", destroy invisible.

Testing "Normal DoT skill", Invisible will be maintained.

Testing "Elemental Susceptibility", destroy invisible.

Testing "Overcharged of Status effect ", Invisible will be maintained.

The reason people use Soul Harvest isn't for damage, it's for the passive Ult gain on kill.
I just did the Halls of Fabrication and the bosses had phases where they summoned a lot of ads, often times becoming invulnerable at the same time.
I would like its duration increased though, it feels like I can only get 5 attacks out in the window it provides. I'd like to do twice that.

I like the rename of magicka flood to power flood since it does both, but the second part is worded weirdly. Try "While siphoning skills are slotted on either bar." Wait, it only does Magicka. Why are you saying "since it does both?" It doesn't. It's only Magicka. That's why it's Magicka flood. The reason it's only Magicka and not stamina is because there aren't really any siphoning skills that use stamina. They are all magicka based, at least as base form. Most don't have stamina morphs either. Only Power Extraction. Everything else is Magicka and magic damages.

Again, It would be "While (skillset) slotted on either bar" not "While slotted (skillset) on either bar." Also, if the skill does get changed to do that, they will need to apply a limiter to prevent getting the bonus from the same skill twice, that way they can't stack both bars with assassination for penetration or siphoning for insane healing done. As is now, you can get 18% more healing done by having ALL siphoning abilities slotted. If that were to do either bar and did the same skill twice, they would then be able to stack 36%, which would be broken. By having the limiter, they could have some on one bar and some on another and not double dip the same skill, such as having the ult on both bars, I know some people who do that.

Pressure Points: yes. The other skills are 3%, should do the same there.

Dark Veil Change: They can't do that. If they buff it, it will make some skills (like Dark Cloak) OP. I also don't see how they'd nerf it but they might try if they apply your request.

Though I would love that, they always decrease damage dealt in proportion to how many targets it can hit. Therefore I must decline to maintain single DPS. Plus, It's already easy enough to spam it and cast it upon every target around.
Now, if they instead cause its cost to increase per extra target hit, that would be nice. One multicast burst in one cast. That would be fun. It would be the same as casting upon each target in cost, but swifter that actually having to target every single one of them.
Since I am a Mage, it's easy enough for me to regain magicka.

Killer's Blade is a 1v1 assassination execute ability.
I'm saddened it no longer does its execute on an unaware target from stealth, but people were probably using it to instakill too many players.
Ok, bad for PvP, but there's a simpler solution. Instead of outright removing the effect, just label players as always aware, then it wouldn't proc on them. That way we could still assassinate NPCs with it. Or at least take a good chunk of their health and stun them.

Nightblades don't get any benefits to bleed. Or any specific Martial damage for that matter. There's no reason to change how it works.

The change to Consuming Darkness should be flat stacking percentile damage reduction that stacks with both protections.
People can already get Major Protection from Flare, and most PvPers run that. Therefore they get no defense bonus from the Ult, which is its main use. That and granting allies a synergy. Its snare may be powerful, but you can never hit any players with it. Even NPCs are hardly affected by it. Not until you morph it into Veil of Blades anyways. Even then, its DPS is pathetic. Deals less than Arrow Volley.

It's in the tank tree. It has always been associated with heavy armor. The 6 seconds without heavy armor works just fine for me. I am always spamming Shadowy Disguise or Dark Cloak or Concealed Weapon. Even at the 5 seconds of healing from Dark Cloak, the 6 seconds of the passive works just fine. No reason to change it. They will end up nerfing the tanks in the process by shortening the max duration of it.

I would love to give my group members the buffs when I hit a target with Sap Essence. I use Sap not Power. I am mage and I like the healing it provides. Better than Strife and its morphs and can be used to heal outside of combat.
If anyone wants to change how it heals, then here's my alternative:
No more damage, more healing, increase heal based on number of targets affected, and grant buffs.
Although I do like its AoE damage. Has aided me in several death case scenarios and allowed me to survive through its healing and AoE damage.

The red light does get annoying, but how else would players know you are using Grim Focus?

Stealth is still there in PvE, but yes it is totally dead in PvP. Those Detection Potions are OP. Overpowered. They NEEEED to be nerfed. Change its increase of effectiveness from straight radius to split to duration. Instead of topping 43.5m for 17 seconds, make it top 20m for 30s. Or just straight nerf it to top 20m for current duration. It needs a nerf.
As for the DoT skills breaking stealth, kill the damage feedback when affected target is stealthed. That way they may still be doing damage, but the cloaker can escape. If they can't escape from someone who isn't using a revealing ability, then something is wrong with the game and needs to be fixed.
Perhaps the damage feed would divert to the side of a person's screen instead of on the stealthed target's location. Then they would still see they are doing damage and would still be rightfully clueless as to the target's location.

master_vanargand · July 8

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Nightblade has many problems, but there are 3 main ones.

The first problem is that Nightblade is the worst performing PvE DPS.
Compared to PvE Top tier classes, Nightblade's single dps is over 10% worse.
Of course, AoE DPS is also at the bottom. And skill rotation is the most complex.
Designed as a DPS when ESO started, Nightblade suffers as the worst DPS in its 10th anniversary.

There are many ways and ideas to solve this problem, but I think a simple solution is better.
Here are some simple ideas to buff PvE Nightblade DPS.

[Requests for improvements to Nightblade]
Increase Death Stroke's duration and reduce its ult cost. (For example, if the Ult cost is 60 and the duration is 12 seconds, the DPS increase is about 5%. "Soul Harvest" does less damage than "Incapacitating Strike" and does not have the special effect of 120 ult, so few people seem to use "Soul Harvest" in PvE or PvP. There are many reasons why Nightblade uses "Incapacitating Strike" in PvE, such as when DPS often accumulate 120 ults while dealing with boss gimmicks, or when DPS want to get ahead of other DPS by attacking the first. "Soul Harvest" on the current live server seems to have no use other than solo use, because there aren't many Trials bosses with a lot of adds. If "Soul Harvest" ult cost becomes 60 and effect duration becomes 12 seconds, PvE DPS Nightblade will choose "Soul Harvest". )

Passive ability "Magicka Flood" increases stamina and magicka. (Rename it to "Power Flood". If this is not done, Cannot be called the hybridization. Also, please change the activation condition of the passive skill to "While slotted Siphoning skills on either bar".)

Change passive abilitie "Hemorrhage" to "While slotted Assassination skills on either bar". (The current problem, PvE DPS Nightblade is forced to use Assassination ult skill on both bars. If only one bar is OK, without reducing DPS, NB can change the back bar ult slot to AoE Damage ult skill.)

Increases passive abilitie "Pressure Points" from 438 (2%) to 657 (3%). (This is the easiest and most reliable way to increase the DPS of PvE Nightblade.)

Need the duration of "Twisting Path" to be increased without reducing the DPS. (Namely, make it 15 sec instead of 12 sec. Making it the same time as the 15 second weapon skill on the backbar would make skill rotation easier. Changes the duration of this skill or Dark Veil.)

Add the effect of "Effects additional enemies near your initial target. (+3 targets)" without reducing the DPS of "Cripple". (Making it a splitting skill increases the AoE damage. However, damage should not be reduced from what it is currently on the live server. Single DPS should not be reduced.)

Add "Now deals its damage in an area around the initial target as well." to "Killer's Blade". (Anyway, since the AoE is lacking, need add splitting damage like "Reverse Slice".)

Change all stamina morph skills of Nightblade such as Killer's Blade to "Bleed Damage" and unify them. (Incapacitating Strike, Killer's Blade, Ambush, Relentless Focus, Surprise Attack, Power Extraction.)

Changes and buff the effects of "Consuming Darkness and its morphs" probably the weakest ultimate skill in ESO.

Need change the duration of the passive ability "Shadow Barrier" of 15-20 seconds.(Do not associate class passive abilities with heavy armor.)

The idea of Shadow Cloak "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Buff" is great.
I wish the game creator would give that idea to the "Assassination" and "Siphoning" skills as well.
I think need add "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery" to Siphoning Strikes.
And remove the "Brutality and Sorcery" from Drain Power and give it buff something better.(For example, it would be great if you could give yourself and all 11 members of your group Minor Courage in Drain Power.)

The second problem is that of red light.
It is discussed in the thread below.

[Grim Focus Permaglow]

Jazraena wrote: »

Grim Focus now makes your weapons permanently glow just for having the ability slotted

The third issue is a stealth destruction bug that many players are exploiting in PvP.
In an update a few years ago, invisible and stealth were no longer broken by single or AoE DoTs.
Only AoE direct damage, Detection potion, and Detection skill can destroy invisible and stealth.
But "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
This is a bug. There are many players exploiting the bug.
Please fix this bug quickly.

[Elemental Susceptibility and Structured Entropy destroy invisible]

master_vanargand wrote: »

In an update a few years ago, invisible and stealth were no longer broken by single or AoE DoTs.
Only AoE direct damage, Detection potion, and Detection skill can destroy invisible and stealth.
But "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
This is a bug, I tested how this happens.

Below is a video of me testing the bug.

[ESO]"Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible[BUG]
https://youtu.be/GOTjX6kePkQ

[Test]
Testing "Structured Entropy", destroy invisible.

Testing "Normal DoT skill", Invisible will be maintained.

Testing "Elemental Susceptibility", destroy invisible.

Testing "Overcharged of Status effect ", Invisible will be maintained.

The reason people use Soul Harvest isn't for damage, it's for the passive Ult gain on kill.
I just did the Halls of Fabrication and the bosses had phases where they summoned a lot of ads, often times becoming invulnerable at the same time.
I would like its duration increased though, it feels like I can only get 5 attacks out in the window it provides. I'd like to do twice that.

I like the rename of magicka flood to power flood since it does both, but the second part is worded weirdly. Try "While siphoning skills are slotted on either bar." Wait, it only does Magicka. Why are you saying "since it does both?" It doesn't. It's only Magicka. That's why it's Magicka flood. The reason it's only Magicka and not stamina is because there aren't really any siphoning skills that use stamina. They are all magicka based, at least as base form. Most don't have stamina morphs either. Only Power Extraction. Everything else is Magicka and magic damages.

Again, It would be "While (skillset) slotted on either bar" not "While slotted (skillset) on either bar." Also, if the skill does get changed to do that, they will need to apply a limiter to prevent getting the bonus from the same skill twice, that way they can't stack both bars with assassination for penetration or siphoning for insane healing done. As is now, you can get 18% more healing done by having ALL siphoning abilities slotted. If that were to do either bar and did the same skill twice, they would then be able to stack 36%, which would be broken. By having the limiter, they could have some on one bar and some on another and not double dip the same skill, such as having the ult on both bars, I know some people who do that.

Pressure Points: yes. The other skills are 3%, should do the same there.

Dark Veil Change: They can't do that. If they buff it, it will make some skills (like Dark Cloak) OP. I also don't see how they'd nerf it but they might try if they apply your request.

Though I would love that, they always decrease damage dealt in proportion to how many targets it can hit. Therefore I must decline to maintain single DPS. Plus, It's already easy enough to spam it and cast it upon every target around.
Now, if they instead cause its cost to increase per extra target hit, that would be nice. One multicast burst in one cast. That would be fun. It would be the same as casting upon each target in cost, but swifter that actually having to target every single one of them.
Since I am a Mage, it's easy enough for me to regain magicka.

Killer's Blade is a 1v1 assassination execute ability.
I'm saddened it no longer does its execute on an unaware target from stealth, but people were probably using it to instakill too many players.
Ok, bad for PvP, but there's a simpler solution. Instead of outright removing the effect, just label players as always aware, then it wouldn't proc on them. That way we could still assassinate NPCs with it. Or at least take a good chunk of their health and stun them.

Nightblades don't get any benefits to bleed. Or any specific Martial damage for that matter. There's no reason to change how it works.

The change to Consuming Darkness should be flat stacking percentile damage reduction that stacks with both protections.
People can already get Major Protection from Flare, and most PvPers run that. Therefore they get no defense bonus from the Ult, which is its main use. That and granting allies a synergy. Its snare may be powerful, but you can never hit any players with it. Even NPCs are hardly affected by it. Not until you morph it into Veil of Blades anyways. Even then, its DPS is pathetic. Deals less than Arrow Volley.

It's in the tank tree. It has always been associated with heavy armor. The 6 seconds without heavy armor works just fine for me. I am always spamming Shadowy Disguise or Dark Cloak or Concealed Weapon. Even at the 5 seconds of healing from Dark Cloak, the 6 seconds of the passive works just fine. No reason to change it. They will end up nerfing the tanks in the process by shortening the max duration of it.

I would love to give my group members the buffs when I hit a target with Sap Essence. I use Sap not Power. I am mage and I like the healing it provides. Better than Strife and its morphs and can be used to heal outside of combat.
If anyone wants to change how it heals, then here's my alternative:
No more damage, more healing, increase heal based on number of targets affected, and grant buffs.
Although I do like its AoE damage. Has aided me in several death case scenarios and allowed me to survive through its healing and AoE damage.

The red light does get annoying, but how else would players know you are using Grim Focus?

Stealth is still there in PvE, but yes it is totally dead in PvP. Those Detection Potions are OP. Overpowered. They NEEEED to be nerfed. Change its increase of effectiveness from straight radius to split to duration. Instead of topping 43.5m for 17 seconds, make it top 20m for 30s. Or just straight nerf it to top 20m for current duration. It needs a nerf.
As for the DoT skills breaking stealth, kill the damage feedback when affected target is stealthed. That way they may still be doing damage, but the cloaker can escape. If they can't escape from someone who isn't using a revealing ability, then something is wrong with the game and needs to be fixed.
Perhaps the damage feed would divert to the side of a person's screen instead of on the stealthed target's location. Then they would still see they are doing damage and would still be rightfully clueless as to the target's location.

"Soul Harvest" only generates an ultimate if you finish off an enemy.
However, if a group member other than you kills an enemy, your "Soul Harvest" will do nothing.
This means that it's difficult to activate this effect in the Trials.
And "Soul Harvest" simply does less damage than "Incapacitating Strike".
There's a reason why Nightblade uses "Incapacitating Strike" in the DPS measurement video on YouTube.

I'm talking about hybridization.
Someone didn't decide that the Siphoning skill was for magicka.
And I haven't said anything about the "Soul Siphoner (Increases your healing done by 3% for each Siphoning ability slotted.)" of passive skill.
You're mistaken and your interpretation is wrong.

Split Damage has been improved in updates.
See Reverse Slice and Forceful.
Unlike before, Split Damage now deals 100% of the skill's damage to nearby enemies.

ZoS can also change Dark Veil so that it doesn't affect Dark Cloak.
ZoS can do it in any way, so there's no point in you denying it.

What I want to say is "PvE DPS Nightblade's AoE damage is too low, so I want to improve it."
Spamming single damage skills on a bunch of enemies is a stupid move that makes the AoE damage the lowest it can be.

Nightblade's stamina morphs have inconsistent damage types, so standardizing them to Bleed damage is correct as per class tradition.
And the bleed damage status effect is amazing, and if it could be easily stacked it would be revolutionary.

No, Shadow skills are not the Tank skill tree.
Skills tree of The first 4 classes are not clearly divided into "DPS, Tank, Healer".
Your interpretation is incorrect.

Shadow Barrier is a class passive skill, so it makes no sense for specific armor like Heavy armor to affect it.
No one would be inconvenienced if the Shadow Barrier duration was 15 seconds.
You think ZoS should reduce the duration significantly, but that's a false assumption.

The red light on Grim Focus and its morphs is not visible to other players.
So you're wrong, only players using Nightblade can see the red light.
Lots of people are bothered by the red light.
You have no right to refuse their request.
You are not ZoS, you are not the game creator, you are just a human being.

KaironBlackbard · July 9

1) I was casting my Soul Harvest every 30 seconds in Halls of Fabrication. That's good uptime on the ult.
2) Magicka Flood is part of the Siphoning Tree, therefore it is based off the Siphoning Skills.
3) Nightblades are assassins, not crowd control. Nightblades are meant for 1v1s. Dragonknights are Crowd Control.
4) You can't murder Dark Cloak like that. That skill works on everything or nothing. Don't mess with it!
5) If you really want to be an AoE Nightblade, go Vampire. Use Blood Mist and Swarming Scion. That's my alt bar.
6) I don't know what world you are living in. ZOS said the skill trees are based on role. One is Healer/Support, one is Tank/Defense, one is Damage. Shadow provides defense and escape, Siphoning provides various Healing and heal boosts, Assassination provides damage.
7) Tanks in full armor get 16.5 out of it. Those few will be very miffed at you if they lose their duration.
8) I've seen the red light on enemies weapons. Don't tell me players don't see it on each other. I play Imperial City, I know what I see.

Luna_the_Rat · July 9

It is my birthday today! I turned 25. Nightblade changes on my birthday = the best possible gift, thank you ZOS!

master_vanargand · July 9

Good things are starting to happen for Nightblade with the new PTS.
I'm not happy with it yet, but it gives me hope for the future of Nightblade.
Remember that PvE DPS Nightblade lost the "+10% damage buff" in the old update.
And Dear ZoS, thank you for fixing the "Destroy stealth and invisible bug for Elemental Susceptibility and Structured Entropy".

AmishDefector · July 10

Add in while battle spirit is active nerf bow procs. Or nerf it overall and then increase damage vs monsters to make it slightly stronger than currently. The class has no cleave and in PVE cleave is king. So it should be on par with stam sorcs for single target but isnt close. Make debilitate hit 2 additional enemies near the target. Additionally it is the hardest class to hit high numbers with reward those that can.