[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

ZOS_GinaBruno

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Nightblade. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

oXI_Viper_IXo

By "pain points" do you mean what we feel is lacking while playing NB or what is overpowered about them while playing against them?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Strider__Roshin

1) Dark Cloak: This move feels unfinished to me. For starters the move looks the exact same, and even has the same animation as it did before Summerset; I was hoping for something unique. The minor protection duration is also way too short, and I think a 10 second duration would be more appropriate. I also think its crit chance should be based on whichever crit rating is higher for you. My Nightblade tank has 25% weapon crit, and 10% spell crit. I know sap tanking is a thing, but that's not the way I tank. Currently this move's heal favors one type of tank over another.

2) Master Assassin: this passive is useless in almost all situations. Could we please see how we can improve this for something outside of ganking? Maybe something to help tanks?

Koolio

DW MNB has been gutted. Between the Spell Damage DW change constant buffs to destro staffs and now staffs count for two slots has pretty much made it mandatory to use staff.

Swallow souls heal being tied directly to damage done.

Turelus

Their sustain and one main damage skill is very light attack weave focused without much support for players who can't weave either due to skill or physical limitations.

Soul Harvest is a magicka/spell based ultimate but is still restricted to 8m, giving it a lot of the issues Impale used to suffer from.

Not popular opinion or pain points but those are my two for Nightblade.

BohnT

Incap is way too strong for it's cost and is used by both mag and stamnb due to how overperforming it is.

Remove the stun on incap and give it an other effect to Keep it viable but the stun is too much as it Boosts the frontloaded Damage potential way too much

GreenSoup2HoT

I am a nightblade main. I will try my best to discuss the main things about nightblade that frustrate me.

1: Piercing Mark. Its just not fun. 2 purges to get rid of the effects on a stamina nightblade gross. Reduce invisibility reveal time to 4-8 seconds to mimic when detect potions got changed. Just change the skill. Theres already tons and tons of reveal options in the game but this one is just toxic and lasts for almost a minute!

2: No DoT mitigation if cloak is hard countered. Nightblades, especially medium armour wearers have very little healing. If we cant cloak, dots shred us like butter. I suggest bringing some form of purge back to the nightblade kit, not debuff purge like old dark cloak but at least a dot purge.

Extra

3: Surprise attack is to front loaded. Armour Debuff should only occur when using with cloak stun.

4: Mass Hysteria should not fear players who are not blocking. I feel all the cc's that counter blocking should only cc people who are actively blocking. Making it only strong against people who actively block.

5: Assassination ultimate should gain back its feature to only stun targets under 50% or something like that.

6: Assassination ultimate damage boost should only effect direct damage.

Gilvoth

we nightblades are not able to stealth properly and we should have our stealth increased. it angers me that we cannot stealth like we need to and that we so easily are pulled out of stealth.

it angers me that we cannot sneak fast in stealth.
right now we have an ability to sneak but it simply feels like we are crawling in mud while we are sneaking, we need to be able to Get Out of harm way while in sneak and right now it is Way too slow in sneak speeds.

o wrote: »

Incap is way too strong for it's cost and is used by both mag and stamnb due to how overperforming it is.

Remove the stun on incap and give it an other effect to Keep it viable but the stun is too much as it Boosts the frontloaded Damage potential way too much

Dear zeniamx and @ZOS_GinaBruno

please hear my complaint about this type of threads,

many people on this forum, have no intention of class balance, but instead are intentionally making threads and comments against a class, class skill, and even a set of armor, or a combination that a class wearing a certain set of armor and using a certain skill is overpowered or in some way not balanced when infact the class or class skill and even set of armor is balanced but they don't want to adjust or change their build nor their skills to defend against those things.
but instead they mean it for harm against a class or skill or armor set. and make posts like the one i am quoting above.

how is it fair and construction oriented that this comment that i quoted above and these types of "nerf nightblade" nerf nightblade skills" be allowed to be posted in this nightblade thread?

all one has to do is be against or die often to the nightblade class and use that anger and fuel their comment to request nerfs be made to a certain class.

thank you for taking time to read my complaint.

and by the way, i do not agree with the complaints that were made in the comment that i qouted, and i am willing to bet that Many people Do Not agree with that statement that i have quoted above.

Voxicity

Underperforming class.

Incap needs a buff. Cloak needs to cost less and general sustain + damage needs to be increased dramatically

Zer0oo

Mag nb dd in PvE is really in a nice spot at the moment. Still don't like the cost increase to funnel but overall really nice to play and the improvements in the last few patches did make mag nb really nice to play. (Funnel animation and Assassine Will improvements). GJ devs.

Mag nb in PvP:
Since i have not really played this patch in pvp with my mag nb it is hard to say but in general it is for all mag classes the same that snares are way to strong and everywhere.
Also the skill mark is in my opinion too strong and should not last so long and you should see how marked you. (Would also nice if you could see who has detection pot up)

NyassaV

In order of importance:

Strife costs far to much for what it currently offers. I would prefer a more drastic cost reduction but honestly 100-200 would go a long way to making the skill useful in PvP again. Also why is this reflectable? It's not a projectile I am pulling health out of you and giving it to me

You can't hit anything with Soul Tether... Unless they are standing still. I feel like there are a lot of bugs here but the fact it has a 6 meter range while Malubeth has 8 meters and Zaan's as 10 is sorta stupid.

Some stamina sustain component for magblade would be nice, like before Morrowind. With strife cost increase I feel like I need to run Siphoning attacks and not leeching -_-

Incap health scaling, we've all said it

Random things pulling me out of cloak like Rune Cage and Endless Furry

Give Soul Harvest something to compete with incap in . Being undodgable was good but technically a bug.

Not nightblade specific but Ancient Knowledge needs to be updated. I'm so tired of the conditions it requires.

Mark shouldn't last 30 seconds. Like OMG

Altercator

SLOADS BREAKS CLOAK.

STOP BREAKING CLOAK.

GrumpyDuckling

1) You designed the class to sneak, yet you penalize their sneak speed. That doesn't make sense.

2) Access to Major Brutality requires melee range and an enemy. So sick of either running 2H or burning through potions.

Avran_Sylt

• Outside of Solo Play (PvE), Mark Target doesn't have many use cases. (Can't proc Executioner)
• Cloaking does not break the Bow Ultimate Channel or cause the attacks to Miss. (It is unclear if this should be the case)

olsborg

Stamnightblade particularily: Lack of healing boosting skills for stamina minor vitality or major vitality. Most classes has this in some way or form, but stamblade only really has it on a high cost ultimate wich lasts for a few seconds. This makes them very weak vs builds that run extremely high defile builds. NB's who dont want to use the cowardly cloak to get back into the fight and instead want to try and outheal on the defencive has a big issue atm.

wozborne

1. If someone sneezes Our Cloak is broken
2. Our uptime on the Major resistances is far, far lower then all other classes

f047ys3v3n

I stopped maining my mNB in both PVP and PVE after doing so more than 2 years with this patch. I am already doing more damage with the sorc after just 1 day, with a much less clean a rotation, sacrificing some damage for crushing interupts, adding a swift glyph for a little mobility, and without moving my best gear yet or getting some even better sorc focused (necropotence) gear. In other words, without optimization, I am already several K ahead of a well practiced and optimized mNB build and learning to live with the stupid scamp.

It is my understanding that folks claim to legitimately get huge dps numbers on mNB perfectly multiprocing relentless and such. My experience, even before the changes, was not so much with the multiprocs because fully charged heavies to maintain magica and the intricacy of the rotation generally prevented this perfection.

What I see in mNB's in PVE dps is a class with:
1) Fewer usable DOT's than most.
2) DOT's that are significantly weaker than most and this is even moreso with the nerf to path.
3) Self and passive other heals that have been nerfed enough that they are no longer a selling point in PVE or PVP.
4) A spamable that costs the same but does much less damage than others, isn't buffed by elemental or racial buffs, is reflect-able in PVP, and also dosen't proc sets well.
5) Great mobility and I think this and the mechanics of vAS were pretty much why they were popular.

I really have my doubts that, unbuffed by CE use, mNB was ever really great dps. I have never been able to duplicate near the claimed performance, even on a dummy, regardless of how meta a gear and rotation set up I tried. I don't really buy the excuse that everybody would be doing mad deeeps if they were as good as so and so at the multiproc.

I further think that trying to balance classes or content without addressing widespread CE use is a waste of time as people are playing the way they like with the intrinsic strengths and weaknesses of classes.

SturgeHammer

1.) Sound for Incapacitating Strike firing on ult activatation, even if the ultimate does not actually happen (as in the ult points are not consumed, not the ult getting dodged or something like that).

2.) This is a pretty minor gripe, but it bugs me at least. Surprise Attack should deal diesease damage to be consistent with the Killer's Blade damage type.

cjhhickman39

Radiant magelight the hard counter to nightblades,
Would like to see one for all other classes

DDuke

1) Stamina Nightblade feels heavily pushed towards using 2H in PvP due to lack of (reliable) burst heals in DW or Bow skill trees. Rally is just too good not to have, which is why most people use 2H on either main bar/off bar & other builds are thus heavily under-represented in PvP.

2) Incap does a bit too much. In conjunction with Relentless Focus proc it makes for too easy of a two button burst combination with its built-in stun and due to its cheap cost it reduces build diversity as stuns like cloak->surprise attack or Fear no longer feel necessary or even useful. Even magicka NBs tend to slot Incap rather than Soul Harvest (the "magicka morph") due to the stun.

Silver_Strider

1) Debilitate is still worthless for absolutely every purpose since its primary focus is directed at Trash Pulls and placing a single target DoT on Trash pulls is a waste of time since they'll die quicker if you AoE them instead of placing this weak DoT before doing your AoE rotation.

Suggested changes would be to make it similar to Templar's Reflective Light Skill and affect 3 targets OR have it apply Minor Lifesteal to the target. Personally, I prefer the Minor Lifesteal idea since it fits both with the theme of a Siphoning Healer as well with the entirely of the Siphon line being the de facto Healer line for NBs. Plus, I hate the idea of skills become too homogenized between all classes.

2) Adjust Siphoning Strikes and Morphs to include some benefits with heavy attacks. Currently, Siphoning Strikes restores the same amount of resources whether you light or heavy attack that in order for you to get the full benefit of Siphoning Strikes, you're much better off just light attacking than heavy attacking with it on. Having it restore slightly more resources on heavy attacks would be in line with the "Heavy Attacks are for sustain" purposes ZOS has been adamantly shoving down our throats since Morrowind and it would assist NB tanks in their resource management since they can't effectively weave light attacks as often as DPS or Healers can. Heavy Attacking on a NB DPS is already a DPS loss so is wouldn't be broken on them either.

I have more grievances but I'll just stick with these two for now, as per the rules.

VaxtinTheWolf

No suggestions and only pain points huh..

Alright.. One thing I am annoyed about is that as a Nightblade Tank I do not have a group friendly AOE CC ability. I could use Manifestation of Terror but the Fear effect causes those affected to move out of position. It would be much more reliable if they were simply frozen in place cowering, too afraid to move. But that isn't the case.

Another thing that still bothers me is the rework of Siphoning Strikes and morph as a tank. Trying to light attack for the tiny resource returns doesn't seem worth the occasional risks depending on the game content you are in. And to get the most benefit in resource return you have to wait out those 20 seconds. That is a long time to try to predict if you'll need those resources. Sometimes it triggers when I need them, and other times my resource pool is already full because I connected a Heavy attack or two, which means I now have to restart that 20 second timer.

Maryal

This thread is supposed to be for 'pain points' only ... not solutions, not opinions about what is OP and needs to be nerfed.

* Pain points are not complaints/comments about NBs, their class, or their skills

* Pain points are complaints from NBs about what frustrates them about playing their class (what they are having problems with, what is making it difficult for them to play their class, etc.)

I don't want to call anyone out in particular on this, but I think it's important for it to be said in hopes that this thread doesn't end up like the overwhelming majority of other threads about NBs. Just saying.

ssewallb14_ESO

(mNB PvP perspective)
1. Strife needs cost reduced or a buff to accommodate the recent cost increase.
2. Soul Harvest needs to be better balanced with Incap. When magicka builds take the stamina morph, there's probably something wrong. The potential to stun into a damage buffed merciless resolve is usually a better deal than the extra damage.

Sedrethi

My pain points will probably be less interesting to most, but I honestly feel like Nightblades are mostly in a good spot at the time of submitting this post.

So, having been a Magicka Nightblade since day one, I think I know what I'm talking about regarding my first point:

1. How many instances of Major Expedition do we need from just our class abilities alone?! Cripple. Path of Darkness. Double Take (Blur morph). It feels overdone and I think some of this could be switched up a little. I'd say Major Expedition still be tied to Cripple (and morphs) since it's a "powerful" effect that should be concentrated on a single target. Perhaps change Path of Darkness (and morphs) to offer Minor Expedition and allow it to affect groupmates who also step into the path for group utility/convenience. Double Take can be left as is, seeing as that is more of a personal choice when morphing and it also doesn't break stealth when cast, which gives it some niche use.

2. More synergies would be welcome. We have all of two in Consuming Darkness and Soul Shred. While Nightblades do have other team-play options, I feel like a lot of them are lackluster. Damage with built-in passive healing (Funnel Health, Refreshing Path, Sap Essence) is—again—overdone. For example, Mark Target could offer a Synergy that allows a specified amount of teammate(s) to share the "reward" of healing (or some other bonus) received upon killing a target. Path of Darkness could offer a synergy that grants Minor Evasion to allies in the path. That way they play better with groupmates who use Undaunted passives and sets that activate by triggering synergies, such as Roar of Alkosh and Moondancer.

EDIT: Follow-up response. Path of Darkness suggestion altered.
TL;DR: Path of Darkness would ultimately give Minor Expedition (instead of Major Expedition) to the caster and allies within it, and cleanses and/or grants immunity to roots and snares on the caster, while giving allies the option to do the same with a synergy prompt.

ninjaguyman

I'd like a more compelling reason to choose soul harvest over incap in pvp. And by that I don't mean just nerf incap. If incap is nerfed and soul harvest is left as is, I'd just end up using soul tether again.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Voxicity wrote: »

Underperforming class.

Incap needs a buff. Cloak needs to cost less and general sustain + damage needs to be increased dramatically

thought your name was toxicity for a second.

LegacyDM

1. You keep nerfing mageblade skills and play styles without any real justification. How many nerfs do we have to endure? You nerfed funnel health 4 times in the last 3 years. First the heal and a cost increase 3 times. A skill no one complained about and is meh at best in pvp., it’s dodgeable and reflectable. You increase the cost with no real justification other than developer comments saying “to be in line with similar skills.” What does this even mean? That you think force shock/crushing shock is equal? Do you even play your own game?! Furthermore, you keep changing skills and giving us dump mechanics as replacement. Seriously? Replacing agony with a stupid self damaging heal? What a dumb idea. Agony could have used a buff, not replaced with something useless. How about assassins will? Really? A wonky micro managing click click click click click skill that requires perfect conditions to get off right? Maybe practical in a duel but in world pvp it’s not worth the slot. Way to raise the skill cap for new players. These changes gave not resulted in a better playing experience but a more frustrating one.

2. You gutted dual wield playstyle. And the worst part is you won’t even acknowledge why. Why should a mageblade play with a staff if a sorc can do it better and easier in world pvp? I feel like a mageblade apart from duals is a *** child of a sorc. Sure we get cloak vs bolt escape, but you keep adding counters to cloak e.g. sloads and it’s just not fun anymore. Concealed weapon speed is nice but it hits like a wet noodle and the nerf to make it dodgeable back in 1.6 or so just feels weak.

I feel there is a lack of synergy and compliments between the mageblade skills. I’m this hodgepodge of destro skills and supplementary mageblade skills. Huh?

nekura

Be like DAoC. 10seconds outside of combat = guaranteed stealth. My eye has been taking upwards of 90seconds to close when I'm 100+meters away from any player or NPC. It's been really bad since Summerset.

Blobsky

A few, not just 2 since discord was useless. Note I have nearly 2 grand overlord magnbs, 600 days playtime and almost all PvE endgame achievements in trials etc.

1. Debilitate is totally garbage, just start again
2. Incap is massively overpowered.
3. Surprise attack should only najor fracture uf stunning from cloak.
4. MagNB suffers heavily from snares ruining cloak, the only solid defence.
5. Cloak overperforms on both stam and mag.
6. Merciless resolve feels too strong on MagNB.
7. NB has too much crit power. In both mag and stam the dps is too high in both PvE and PvP

bardx86

1. Cloak in pvp is to strong, not really much risk in playing the class.
2. Incap has to low of a cost and to many effects. It would be nice if we had a bit longer rotation as spamming2 skills in pvp gets old.