[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

KaironBlackbard

I don't use Twisting Path, I use Refreshing Path.
The dps is useless, instantly healed by all PvPers.
Refreshing gives healing and gives Minor Intellect and Endurance, which allows me to boost allies by giving them a little more healing and regeneration and giving them a speed boost.
Though, it's small size does make it useless when people are constantly strafing. Constantly replacing it.
It's only about 500 healing in Imperial City, so... Not very useful. Then again that's in the hands of a speedy vampire who isn't built for anything but sprinting. Might be more powerful if I actually make a heal build.

master_vanargand wrote: »

• Passive ability "Magicka Flood" increases stamina and magicka. (Rename it to "Power Flood". If this is not done, Cannot be called the hybridization. Also, please change the activation condition of the passive skill to "While slotted Siphoning skills on either bar".)
• Change passive abilitie "Hemorrhage" to "While slotted Assassination skills on either bar". (The current problem, PvE DPS Nightblade is forced to use Assassination ult skill on both bars. If only one bar is OK, without reducing DPS, NB can change the back bar ult slot to AoE Damage ult skill.)
• Increases passive abilitie "Pressure Points" from 438 (2%) to 657 (3%). (This is the easiest and most reliable way to increase the DPS of PvE Nightblade.)

I agree with renaming to suit its function. (Magicka Flood to Power Flood)
Hemorrhage and Pressure Points: "While slotted (skill name) on either bar" sounds very confusing. Should be more like "While (Skill Tree) skills are slotted on either bar." - makes it less confusing.


I still think we should have double bars.
Primary weapon with 5 active skills, an Ultimate, and 5 abilities slotted for passive effects.
Secondary weapon with 5 active skills, an Ultimate, and 5 abilities slotted for passive effects.
Maybe even an Ultimate slot in the passives section for Ultimate's passive effects.

I have many ideas for that. For starters, the free variants of abilities would only proc passives and grant their slotted effects.
Some might have half-price effects, some might have auto cast effects, some might reduce max resource or resource generation to grant constant effects. All would have free variants, just making that clear.

I made a thread about it. Ask me about a build hypothesis there, I'll return my hypothesis about it.
Thread is called "Ability Secondary Use."
Edit: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658106/ability-secondary-use

Oh, before anyone asks, it won't affect Werewolf bars. They don't have enough werewolf abilities for that, and I honestly don't see how a passive version of those abilities would be more usable than the abilities themselves.

And, Abilities as passives would probably normally have reduced effects to incentivise using them as actives instead of passives.

Buff Abilities passively granting their buffs would reduce max resource by their cost, which btw reduces your damage output by reducing your max resource. That would be the balancing for that.

KaironBlackbard

In reference to my previous post: about theorizing the ability to slot active skills in a passive bar tied to each weapon:
nightblade/assassination Hypotheses. Just edited today (June 4, 2024.)
nightblade/siphoning Hypotheses. I need to edit this one again. Updated June 4, 2024 at 9:04 PM CT.
nightblade/shadow Hypotheses. I need to edit this one as well. updated June 4, 2024 at 8:32 PM CT.

One more note, apparently I made this back when Siphoning Strikes was a 20 second duration ability, and its morphs added magicka or stamina respectively. (February 27, 2024)
As such, some of the base versions of abilities might not be correct.
Let me know if I missed one of those updates, aka have incorrect base ability.

I wish I could Embed a section last updated notifier, an automatic screenshot of what an embedded site looked like when my site was last updated, and even the ability to Embed a portion of another website into mine.
This would also help me figure out differences between what I have and what is current.
ESO Hub does a wonderful job of keeping it up to date. I don't know how they do it.
I'm not that talented.

If anyone does a deeper dive into my site, let me know what I should focus on and add in. It's still a work in progress.
At least I have Nightblade's ability secondary use as passives finished.
Using new style than how I began.
Now I'm using
Free
effects
Booster variant
free effects + new effects
another booster variant? Some do have multiple. Some others might only have one but probably could have multiple.
A couple don't have a booster variant.

master_vanargand

In an update a few years ago, invisible and stealth were no longer broken by single or AoE DoTs.
Only AoE direct damage, Detection potion, and Detection skill can destroy invisible and stealth.
But "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
This is a bug. There are many players exploiting the bug.
Please fix this bug quickly.

master_vanargand wrote: »

In an update a few years ago, invisible and stealth were no longer broken by single or AoE DoTs.
Only AoE direct damage, Detection potion, and Detection skill can destroy invisible and stealth.
But "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
This is a bug, I tested how this happens.

Regarding "Elemental Susceptibility", there is a bug that causes some status effects to destroy invisible.
I tested it, and it seems that the "Burning" status effect is destroying invisible.
It's highly likely that other status effects that give DoTs also have a bug that destroys invisibility, just like "Burning".
Game creators should check all status effects just to be sure.

The mechanism by which "Structured Entropy" destroys invisible and stealth probably has to do with the visual effect of the line connecting the player and the target.
In other words, to display the line's visual effect, you need to know the position of the invisible player.

1. "Structured Entropy" DoT damage and cast player to heal.
2. The server tells cast player the position of the target invisible player as information to draw the line's visual effect.
3. The position of the invisible player is now known, so the invisible effect will be destroyed.

I think the above process is probably the cause of the bug of "Structured Entropy".

Below is a video of me testing the bug.

[ESO]"Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible[BUG]
https://youtu.be/GOTjX6kePkQ

[Test]

1. Testing "Structured Entropy", destroy invisible.
2. Testing "Normal DoT skill", Invisible will be maintained.
3. Testing "Elemental Susceptibility", destroy invisible.
4. Testing "Overcharged of Status effect ", Invisible will be maintained.

GrimStyx

Nightblade is actually more or less well balanced, I have some complaints about the presence of inferior morphs and a couple of abilities.

For example, I don’t see the point in using Mark Target and its morph when you have a cooler Elemental Susceptibility, yes, Mark Target prevents the enemy from going invisible, but you can also use poison for this and it will be much more practical. I would add a Mangle debuff to allow gang builds to more effectively kill the target and Defile or block health healing to some value

Change Blur and it morphs making it a shield from damage received and reflect damage dealt to the shield back to the enemy, or heal you from damage done to the shield the first morph will allow you to use it on yourself, the second on an ally

Dark cloak needs to be changed a little, it is necessary to increase its duration, the current duration is very low, and for example, change the condition for increasing healing to not to stand still, or change it to something else, for example, give this ability minor Physical Resistance.

Increase the duration of Shadow Barrier to 12-15 seconds, and cancel the condition where it increases its duration for each piece of heavy armor on you

Soul Siphon ult morph should deal damage, heal allies from % of damage dealt, siphon health from enemies and heal allies near you, instead of you

Power Extraction gives too much compared to Sap Essence, let both give Minor Courage, and Sap Essence still heal but not by a fixed value, but by a % of the damage dealt. This option will help builds with P.Extraction to reduce the healing and damage of enemies, and the second one is better to survive in mass battles, or heal allies, which fits better with the concept of a nighblade healer, who should deal more damage in order to heal himself and allies more effectively

A little weird things:
Veiled Strike and blur should swap places in the branches, because it would be logical

KaironBlackbard

GrimStyx wrote: »

I don’t see the point in using Mark Target and its morph when you have a cooler Elemental Susceptibility, yes, Mark Target prevents the enemy from going invisible,

Actually, it doesn't. Piercing Mark lets you see them for 3 seconds after marking them even if they go invisible, but it doesn't stop them.
The problem is it's only 3 seconds after casting. Now, if the timer didn't tick until they were invisible, then it'd actually be useful.

GrimStyx wrote: »

Change Blur and it morphs making it a shield from damage received and reflect damage dealt to the shield back to the enemy, or heal you from damage done to the shield the first morph will allow you to use it on yourself, the second on an ally

No. Blur is currently in a good place. Don't damage it by turning it into another useless damage shield like Annulment or Guarded Stance. Mirage makes it even better.

GrimStyx wrote: »

Dark cloak needs to be changed a little, it is necessary to increase its duration, the current duration is very low, and for example, change the condition for increasing healing to not to stand still, or change it to something else, for example, give this ability minor Physical Resistance.
Increase the duration of Shadow Barrier to 12-15 seconds, and cancel the condition where it increases its duration for each piece of heavy armor on you

You don't use the Dark Veil passive, do you?
It practically doubles its Dark Cloak's duration.
The defence it gives is in Minor Protection.
If you use Mirage, you also get Minor Resolve.
Revealing Flare slotted or the shadow Ult placed, Major Protection.
Resolving Vigor, Major Minor Resolve. I thought it used to be Major?
Right, shadow barrier. I'm pretty sure that a full suit of heavy armor grants it 20 seconds at max rank. At least 12 anyway.
Hold on, mathing... 6 seconds +175% = 16.5, 6 piece = 15. It lasts a good duration. Don't nerf it.

Major Resolve skills for NB:
Balance, morph of Entropy, 30 seconds. (Mages Guild)
Unstoppable and both morphs, 20 seconds, 23 for Immovable morph. (Heavy Armor)
Huh, I thought there was more...
Well, if they decide to improve the duration and weaken the heavy armor effect, letting heavy armor raise it ...
What about this:
7.5(R1)/15(R2) duration, +0.5(R1)/+1(R2) duration per heavy armor equipped. That portion of the skill has been there since base game, there is no way they are going to remove it. Might as well just readjust it a little bit to make it... more appealing? No, not the word... More versatile? Close... Eh, we'll just go with Versatile. That was damage NBs and Healer NBs can get some use out of it.
Although, truth be told, how often do NBs go without casting any form of cloak? It's not really longer than 6 seconds. If you have Rank 2, it should be working for you just fine.

GrimStyx wrote: »

Soul Siphon ult morph should deal damage, heal allies from % of damage dealt, siphon health from enemies and heal allies near you, instead of you

Why stop the self heal? That's the whole reason people use the damage version. If you want to heal allies then go for the morph that is purely a heal. Cancelling the self heal and making it heal allies will just make the ability useless in most scenarios. It's the ability solos use, remember that.

GrimStyx wrote: »

Power Extraction gives too much compared to Sap Essence, let both give Minor Courage, and Sap Essence still heal but not by a fixed value, but by a % of the damage dealt. This option will help builds with P.Extraction to reduce the healing and damage of enemies, and the second one is better to survive in mass battles, or heal allies, which fits better with the concept of a nightblade healer, who should deal more damage in order to heal himself and allies more effectively

The purpose of power extraction is extra damage boost. The purpose of sap essence is healing.
You apparently don't play a T4 Vampblade. Sap essence as it is now allows me great healing in combat and the ability to heal out of combat. If it heals by % of damage done instead of flat value, I will lose the ability to self heal out of combat.
What good would Power Extraction be if it's extra buff is also given to Sap Essence?
Why would anyone use Power anymore, when Sap is then the same thing but also with heal effect?

Also, Healer's Aren't damage dealers. If Sap heals by damage done, they will get nil out of it.
I average 2k damage on it. Now, when hitting many targets that can stack up pretty high, but in small or 1v1 fights, that's pretty nil. No, that's not a damage build. That's my tank build. He is weak but durable. I don't really use that ability much, preferring to apply debuffs and taunts via Lotus Fan and Pierce Armor instead. But my Vampire spams Sap Essence.

GrimStyx wrote: »

A little weird things:
Veiled Strike and blur should swap places in the branches, because it would be logical

No. Just no. I like my concealed weapon proccing my Shadow Barrier. Leave it be. That's our shadow spammable. "Strike from the SHADOWS"
Now, Aspect of Terror and Blur being swapped might be fine, the description only says "dark spirit," doesn't specifically say shadows like Concealed Weapon does.

NyassaV

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Issue is you still fall down the "Any buff for PVE is an overbuff in PVP" pit and the opposite

Case example : cloak

Dark cloak change to boost health when immobile is great for the rare NB tanks like me but sucks for DPS or PVP that require a lot of mobility as main source to stay alive, so it got nerfed for use on DPS

The double bar effect of shadowy disguise was nice to boost PVE DPS but has 2 issues :

1.Nobody needs or use that skill outside RP/criminal and PVP activities so you waste a skill slot for dungeons and trials just for the buff and passive bonus

2.It just buffed PVP gankblade and gave even more incentive to go down that playstyle which is already complained about as far as Sheo's cheese cellar goes

Unless PVE and PVP abilities can be clearly separated, which has its own issues, NB can't get any significant buffs for PVE without causing it to become overtuned in PVP

I mean... Dark cloak kinda nice in PvP. If you play it right you can LOS, stand there for 2 seconds and heal for 8k + your vigor healing. It allows you to keep up the engagement.

GrimStyx

I will only answer what I categorically disagree with you about.

You don't use the Dark Veil passive, do you?
It practically doubles its Dark Cloak's duration.
The defence it gives is in Minor Protection.

5 seconds is a ridiculous length. I don’t want to offend, but apparently you don’t really understand how pvp works, since most self-healing is used in pvp mode, and that this supported healing has to be constantly recast so that your health does not drop, or drops much more slowly than without it, and in this short During the interval you still have to have time to counterattack. This is very inconvenient, I would be willing to increase the cost of the skill if it lasted longer, 10-12 seconds. I don't use mirage, because this skill line is useless to me, more useless than other skills and takes up an extra slot, i use resolving Vigor from Assault skills. this skill, by the way, also lasts 5 seconds, which makes it even more difficult to use them together and receive even more constant treatment, perhaps this is intended? I don't know, but the fact is, 5 seconds is really uncomfortable, considering that you have to constantly spam them to survive

Shadow barrier should increase its duration to eliminate the need for players to wear heavy armor or spam the skill that benefits this passive. Using other skills to get Major Resolve on Nighblade when there is a passive on it and clogging an already clogged panel is a perversion

Why stop the self heal? That's the whole reason people use the damage version. If you want to heal allies then go for the morph that is purely a heal. Cancelling the self heal and making it heal allies will just make the ability useless in most scenarios. It's the ability solos use, remember that.

Because the least useful morph, if you want to stun and heal only yourself, you choose another morph. And so, with this change, you can heal your allies and deal damage to enemies, for example in PVE, playing as a nightblade healer, as for me, a nightblade healer should stand out among other healers in that in addition to healing, he provides very great support in the form of damage, and Due to its damage, it heals allies. Is the variety of gameplay a bad thing?

The purpose of power extraction is extra damage boost. The purpose of sap essence is healing.
You apparently don't play a T4 Vampblade. Sap essence as it is now allows me great healing in combat and the ability to heal out of combat. If it heals by % of damage done instead of flat value, I will lose the ability to self heal out of combat.
What good would Power Extraction be if it's extra buff is also given to Sap Essence?
Why would anyone use Power anymore, when Sap is then the same thing but also with heal effect?

For self-healing, as I already said, there are separate skills, and they are in the branches of all classes, these are burst self-healing and periodic long-lasting. Nightblade, for example, has Malevolent Offering morphs and dark cloak, someone else uses Refreshing Path, Use Sap Essence to heal yourself like Mal.Offering does - this is not a very good solution... But it would be much more useful if you healed by % of the damage dealt, since you use it to directly damage the enemy and get buffs, and if you have several enemies just spam it and try to survive the fight, so the % of damage dealt will be better than just a fixed healing. It lags behind Power Extraction because it doesn't provide minor courage, and it doesn't heal as much as we'd like. Believe me, in combat you will be much better off putting the Minor Cowardice debuff on your enemies to reduce their healing received and damage dealt, and additionally getting the minor courage buff for yourself, which will give you much more than just spamming Sap Essence, because minor courage gives you spd/wpd that boosts not only all your damage, but also all your healing, for example from Swallow Soul wpd/spd also additionally adds up to the percentage of the minor major buff which gives 10% and 20% damage from weapons and spells and the higher it is, the % of damage and heal boost will be much stronger. Therefore, Sap Essence is clearly worse.

No. Just no. I like my concealed weapon proccing my Shadow Barrier. Leave it be. That's our shadow spammable. "Strike from the SHADOWS"
Now, Aspect of Terror and Blur being swapped might be fine, the description only says "dark spirit," doesn't specifically say shadows like Concealed Weapon does.

Firstly, this is a completely attacking ability, in all morphs, all attacking abilities are in another branch, and secondly, since this is an attacking ability, you will receive additional benefits from the Assassination Skills branch, which is aimed specifically at killing. Moreover, they even have the same blades in animations. And what does Blur have to do with the Assassination branch and its name, and how do the passives of this branch stack with what blur does? I don’t see any point in keeping this skill in the defensive branch, like and blur in attacking branch

KaironBlackbard

You're going off mechanics, not style.
Concealed weapon is in the shadow tree because you are striking from the shadows.
Blur and Mirage are in the assassination tree because they are assassin's agility.

KaironBlackbard

And, that vamp's build doesn't have room for a self heal on his bars. The only heals he has are combat heals, and Sap is one of them, mostly used for damage boost but with a side of healing. The added benefit of self heal even when you don't hit squat really makes me use it. His cloak is Shadowy Disguise. Uses Mirage. Doesn't use Vigor.
Why get 20 seconds of Minor Resolve for 6k stamina when you can get 20 seconds of Minor Resolve AND Major Evasion for 3k magicka, with a boost to reduce the cost of roll dodge?
I find the buffs more appealing than 7.5k heal over 5 seconds. Especially when it gets halved due to battle spirit.

KaironBlackbard

My sap essence is a 3k damage AoE for 3k healing. Hit a swarm of enemies and you get 9k per blast. It is fun.

GrimStyx

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

You're going off mechanics, not style.
Concealed weapon is in the shadow tree because you are striking from the shadows.
Blur and Mirage are in the assassination tree because they are assassin's agility.

this is not an argument, in Teleport Strike they also write that you “Flash through the shadows and ambush an enemy”, but it is in the Assassination branch. And what difference does it make what is written if, from a mechanical point of view, it should be in another branch, simply because its presence there is justified by the fact that you get an additional buff for Assassination passives at causing damage when you put this skill in your slot

KaironBlackbard

Smack with concealed weapon, gain 6 seconds of Major Resolve.
Don't you dare butcher that!
I could care less about 300 crit rating.

GrimStyx

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Smack with concealed weapon, gain 6 seconds of Major Resolve.
Don't you dare butcher that!
I could care less about 300 crit rating.

Well, that’s probably why the duration of major resolve needs to be significantly increased, and the dependence on heavy armor removed, so that there is no need to spam abilities from the shadow branch, and if blur is also moved there with a shield from damage received that would heal you, then an interesting one would appear protective alternative to shadowy and dark cloak or for combination with them

GrimStyx

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Smack with concealed weapon, gain 6 seconds of Major Resolve.
Don't you dare butcher that!
I could care less about 300 crit rating.

In addition, this would solve the problem with those who do not play with concealed weapons and heavy armor, and therefore cannot spam abilities regularly to maintain Major Resolve constantly, for example with swallow soul, and would not force them to use extraneous abilities to get a long-term major resolve , when this buff is already included in the passive.

BasP

GrimStyx wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Smack with concealed weapon, gain 6 seconds of Major Resolve.
Don't you dare butcher that!
I could care less about 300 crit rating.

Well, that’s probably why the duration of major resolve needs to be significantly increased, and the dependence on heavy armor removed, so that there is no need to spam abilities from the shadow branch, and if blur is also moved there with a shield from damage received that would heal you, then an interesting one would appear protective alternative to shadowy and dark cloak or for combination with them

Looking at it from my (relatively casual solo) PvE perspective, I'm not entirely sure how I'd feel about that. Let's say Shadow's Barrier's duration would be doubled. In that case just keeping up Twisting Path would give me 100% uptime on Major Resolve on my two NB's that don't wear Heavy Armor.

On one hand that'd be great, sure, but I also think it'd be 'unfair' to other classes that have to use a skill slot and spend resources to get Major Resolve (alongside a secondary effect that pales in comparison Path).

GrimStyx

BasP wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Smack with concealed weapon, gain 6 seconds of Major Resolve.
Don't you dare butcher that!
I could care less about 300 crit rating.

Well, that’s probably why the duration of major resolve needs to be significantly increased, and the dependence on heavy armor removed, so that there is no need to spam abilities from the shadow branch, and if blur is also moved there with a shield from damage received that would heal you, then an interesting one would appear protective alternative to shadowy and dark cloak or for combination with them

Looking at it from my (relatively casual solo) PvE perspective, I'm not entirely sure how I'd feel about that. Let's say Shadow's Barrier's duration would be doubled. In that case just keeping up Twisting Path would give me 100% uptime on Major Resolve on my two NB's that don't wear Heavy Armor.

On one hand that'd be great, sure, but I also think it'd be 'unfair' to other classes that have to use a skill slot and spend resources to get Major Resolve (alongside a secondary effect that pales in comparison Path).

Well, in fact, this will not be an isolated case of easily obtaining a long-term buff, for example, a templar is given Minor Sorcery for 20 seconds, and this is one of the rarest buffs in the game, unlike major resolve, which is easy to obtain and which simply takes up an additional slot . Therefore, I don’t think that it will be too unfair if it is given for the same 20 seconds, or at least 16 sec. After all, the buff is not rare and one can say the main one for all classes, why somehow limit and complicate its maintenance, especially if it is built into the passive

KaironBlackbard

Oakensoul gives Minor Protection and Major Resolve.
If you're intent on screwing with current nightblade balancing, I suggest you use that instead.

BasP

GrimStyx wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Smack with concealed weapon, gain 6 seconds of Major Resolve.
Don't you dare butcher that!
I could care less about 300 crit rating.

Well, that’s probably why the duration of major resolve needs to be significantly increased, and the dependence on heavy armor removed, so that there is no need to spam abilities from the shadow branch, and if blur is also moved there with a shield from damage received that would heal you, then an interesting one would appear protective alternative to shadowy and dark cloak or for combination with them

Looking at it from my (relatively casual solo) PvE perspective, I'm not entirely sure how I'd feel about that. Let's say Shadow's Barrier's duration would be doubled. In that case just keeping up Twisting Path would give me 100% uptime on Major Resolve on my two NB's that don't wear Heavy Armor.

On one hand that'd be great, sure, but I also think it'd be 'unfair' to other classes that have to use a skill slot and spend resources to get Major Resolve (alongside a secondary effect that pales in comparison Path).

Well, in fact, this will not be an isolated case of easily obtaining a long-term buff, for example, a templar is given Minor Sorcery for 20 seconds, and this is one of the rarest buffs in the game, unlike major resolve, which is easy to obtain and which simply takes up an additional slot .

True, but Nightblades are also given Minor Savagery for 20 seconds, which I believe is just as rare? I think that it'd be better to compare Shadow Barrier to the Templar's Spear Wall passive, which gives Minor Protection for 6 seconds (and the duration can't be extended by wearing Heavy Armor). In that way, the passives seem quite balanced against each other. And they are certainly better than some other classes' passives.

So yeah, despite profiting from a buff to Shadow Barrier's duration myself, to keep things balanced I'd rather see changes to other skills or passives that help Nightblades in areas where they are lacking (endgame PvE DPS for example).

GrimStyx

BasP wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Smack with concealed weapon, gain 6 seconds of Major Resolve.
Don't you dare butcher that!
I could care less about 300 crit rating.

Well, that’s probably why the duration of major resolve needs to be significantly increased, and the dependence on heavy armor removed, so that there is no need to spam abilities from the shadow branch, and if blur is also moved there with a shield from damage received that would heal you, then an interesting one would appear protective alternative to shadowy and dark cloak or for combination with them

Looking at it from my (relatively casual solo) PvE perspective, I'm not entirely sure how I'd feel about that. Let's say Shadow's Barrier's duration would be doubled. In that case just keeping up Twisting Path would give me 100% uptime on Major Resolve on my two NB's that don't wear Heavy Armor.

On one hand that'd be great, sure, but I also think it'd be 'unfair' to other classes that have to use a skill slot and spend resources to get Major Resolve (alongside a secondary effect that pales in comparison Path).

Well, in fact, this will not be an isolated case of easily obtaining a long-term buff, for example, a templar is given Minor Sorcery for 20 seconds, and this is one of the rarest buffs in the game, unlike major resolve, which is easy to obtain and which simply takes up an additional slot .

True, but Nightblades are also given Minor Savagery for 20 seconds, which I believe is just as rare? I think that it'd be better to compare Shadow Barrier to the Templar's Spear Wall passive, which gives Minor Protection for 6 seconds (and the duration can't be extended by wearing Heavy Armor). In that way, the passives seem quite balanced against each other. And they are certainly better than some other classes' passives.

So yeah, despite profiting from a buff to Shadow Barrier's duration myself, to keep things balanced I'd rather see changes to other skills or passives that help Nightblades in areas where they are lacking (endgame PvE DPS for example).

Minor protection is still a rarer buff than Major resolve, some even play without it, but never without Major resolve, especially since templar plays mainly through spears, and it is easier for him to get this buff, while nightblade has more varied gameplay . In short, I don’t know... If the developers have already decided to simplify the maintenance of skills and buffs, then it probably makes sense to increase its duration. Especially the skills of some classes have conditionally useful abilities, I call them crutches when zos couldn’t think of anything else, which, apart from the duration of skills from a specific branch, do not give anything else and do not affect anything else, like Dark veil or Enduring Rays, for example I have never seen an arcanist with such crutches. Why couldn’t it just be done with an already conditional fixed duration in branches, and add something really more useful to the passive, after all we play MMOs, not MOBAs, where this is really important for the sake of balance, although even in a MOBA a decrease cooldown from passive, or incresing the duration of the effects can extend to all skills and items beyond the main skills

KaironBlackbard

Major Resolve translates to ~13% mitigation, as long as it isn't penetrated. It is functionally zero in PvP. My NB Tank has 28k base armor and they cut through him like he's unarmored. I honestly don't know how to make him more survivable. I might just swap Shadowy Disguise for Dark Cloak to give him 5% less damage taken. He runs Flare and Radiant, Major Protection and immunity to sneak attack stuns. Also runs Lotus Fan and Pierce Armor. Spell Wall. Guarded Stance. Back bar has Shadowy Disguise for escape. Ice Staff. Veil of Blades. I forget what else is on backbar since I don't use it much. I know every slot has a purpose, and it has no room for Elemental Destruction.

GrimStyx

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Major Resolve translates to ~13% mitigation, as long as it isn't penetrated. It is functionally zero in PvP. My NB Tank has 28k base armor and they cut through him like he's unarmored. I honestly don't know how to make him more survivable. I might just swap Shadowy Disguise for Dark Cloak to give him 5% less damage taken. He runs Flare and Radiant, Major Protection and immunity to sneak attack stuns. Also runs Lotus Fan and Pierce Armor. Spell Wall. Guarded Stance. Back bar has Shadowy Disguise for escape. Ice Staff. Veil of Blades. I forget what else is on backbar since I don't use it much. I know every slot has a purpose, and it has no room for Elemental Destruction.

I actually didn’t know into detail about how armor works, maybe it in order of decreasing usefulness, i.e. the higher it is, the less % protection it will provide, which means that 6000 armor will give significant protection than if you don't have it left , or does not depend on it. And even if a different calculation is used there, then having 13-14k armor left with this buff is still much better than having 7-8k left without it. But in pvp, as a rule, this passive could work more good than in pve, since you are still forced to have at least 3-4 slots of heavy armor in order to at least somehow resist more dangerous players, although even taking into account the fact that I run with 3 heavy ones, and still sometimes This passive is missing in duration, it’s only 10 seconds if you using 3 heavy, and at the moment when I just start to lower the enemy’s health, its effect disappears, a couple of seconds to swap the panel and recast the shadow skill so that the health does not drop too much during counterattacks, and my opponent already takes the initiative and I go on defense.

KaironBlackbard

GrimStyx wrote: »

at the moment when I just start to lower the enemy’s health, its effect disappears, a couple of seconds to swap the panel and recast the shadow skill.

That's why you run a shadow skill on both bars, be it cloak or concealed weapon.
Normally it's cloak on Both bars.
Using concealed as an attack is the main way most non-cloakers get that buff, especially damage dealers since it is more powerful that uppercut in most cases, until the target is low enough, then an execute skill is more handy, but still, in most cases It is staple.
Plus, the fact it gives Minor Expedition from either bar is another reason it is staple in most NB builds.

KaironBlackbard

And, as for resolve, I find that even having max heavy and armor perks and traits and both resolves, I still get INSTA KILLED.
30k damage from a single hit from flurry from a Nightblade. Flurry deals 4 hits.
HOW ARE THEY EVEN DOING THAT????
My 48k armor (effective max 33k for 50% mitigation) seems like zero. Meaning they have over 48k penetration.
AND They are taking Nil from me, meaning they have 33k+ at least 17k due to my penetration. 50k armor!
How do they have 50k armor AND 50k penetration?!?!?

That's what I'm battling.

BTW, Armor is a flat scaling, not quadratic.
Penetration deducts from armor.
33k is max effective armor.
In pvp, it's good to have more than 33k to maintain high resistance through enemy's penetration.
If you have 48k armor and they have 20k penetration, you effectively have only 28k armor against them. That's only 42% instead of 50%. You may think that's high, but to me it seems like they have infinite penetration, because even when I have as High as I can get in armor, they still take me out in 0.5 seconds.

Now, with my current build, I'm a block tank. I survive up to 15 seconds longer, or until feared or stunned somehow.
On average it takes only 3 seconds for them to use an unblockable stun against me, then they practically instakill me.
I wish it would tell me what the stun is in my killed by log. Then I'd be better able to figure out how to counter or evade the stun, or recognize what or when I need to dodge if it can be dodged.

---

I'm still miffed/frustrated that Detection Potions allow them to see us from all the way across the city, while we are INVISIBLE.
I mainly play Imperial City.
You see enemy across the map, you cloak, they disappear, you keep cloaking, you make it to a door to escape or you find a hiding spot and keep cloaking, and then while you are still cloaked you are killed.
I keep wanting to call them hackers.
I ask them to explain, they simply say "detect pot."
Makes nightblades and vampires useless.
And invis potion users? Hurts them the most. They specially craft a very long duration potion, they use it to escape enemies. Hardly even a few seconds and they are dead, because the enemy could still see them and hit them.

They need to fix the detection potion. It SHOULD NOT see invisible. Stealth sure, but NOT invisible.
Also, it NEEDS to Notify people that they are visible.
Stealth folks shouldn't be getting instakilled while being notified they are completely hidden, because obviously they aren't because their killer could see them.

Luna_the_Rat

My biggest issues on Nightblade ATM :

- Far too many things in PVP pull us out of Shadowy Disguise. My own poison dot causes a recast, Sorc's targeted, sticky abilities, Streak. Those calling for a recast debuff are not advocating that shadowy disguise be worth the initial cast every time, and I would like to see this change made to help Stamblade actually use Shadowy Disguise to disengage successfully.

- Players pinpoint my exact position in Shadowy Disguise regularly, without any source of Reveal.

- Incapacitating Strike feels like it misses / whiffs on dodge > wasted ult very frequently. DK Leap is targeted for comparison's sake. On hit, Incap. Strike is fine, but I feel like for an Ultimate ability it hits infrequently, the cast time is clunky on the upgraded version, and results in an entirely wasted ult far too frequently for the duration of stun > break free.

master_vanargand

Scribing has changed the PvP Nightblade used skills.
I don't think there's a skill slot for "Shadow Image", "Power Extraction" or "Ambush".
I like "Shadow Image" and "Power Extraction", but Scribing takes priority.
"Ambush" feels like a joke skill and isn't worth using.

KaironBlackbard

I never really used the shadow anyways, but when I did it was the archer version.
I use Sap Essence instead of Power Extraction.
I use Lotus Fan instead of Ambush.

DrNukenstein

master_vanargand wrote: »

And, Abilities as passives would probably normally have reduced effects to incentivise using them as actives instead of passives.

Buff Abilities passively granting their buffs would reduce max resource by their cost, which btw reduces your damage output by reducing your max resource. That would be the balancing for that.

This is so close to a great idea for ALL classes. Getting to slot say, 5 passives instead of benefiting from every single passive you have the skill points for. Would probably require a rebalance of nearly every passive, but would bring in a wild new era of theory crafting for this game while reigning in some of the insane power creep of the hybrid meta.

Make it happen, update 45. Prune our power and make us make decisions.

KaironBlackbard

DrNukenstein wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

And, Abilities as passives would probably normally have reduced effects to incentivise using them as actives instead of passives.

Buff Abilities passively granting their buffs would reduce max resource by their cost, which btw reduces your damage output by reducing your max resource. That would be the balancing for that.

This is so close to a great idea for ALL classes. Getting to slot say, 5 passives instead of benefiting from every single passive you have the skill points for. Would probably require a rebalance of nearly every passive, but would bring in a wild new era of theory crafting for this game while reigning in some of the insane power creep of the hybrid meta.

Make it happen, update 45. Prune our power and make us make decisions.

It expands power not prunes it.
It's not the passives you are slotting, true passives are unaffected by that Idea of mine.
The Idea is for turning ACTIVE abilities, ones you slot and cast, into an alternate variation.
Allowing you to slot more useless abilities to gain their effects without having to spam them or waste true ability slots.
Like Magelight and Flare. Put those in the passive bar to gain crit bonus and protection without wasting a casting slot for such a meager bonus.
It does NOT affect true passives.

master_vanargand

The idea of ​​Shadow Cloak "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Buff" is great.
I wish the game creator would give that idea to the "Assassination" and "Siphoning" skills as well.
I think need add "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery" to Siphoning Strikes.
And remove the "Brutality and Sorcery" from Drain Power and give it buff something better.

KaironBlackbard

master_vanargand wrote: »

The idea of ​​Shadow Cloak "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Buff" is great.
I wish the game creator would give that idea to the "Assassination" and "Siphoning" skills as well.
I think need add "While slotted on either bar, you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery" to Siphoning Strikes.
And remove the "Brutality and Sorcery" from Drain Power and give it buff something better.

Brutality and sorcery is 20% damage boost. Berserk is just 10%. I don't know what would be better than 20% boost.
Siphoning Strikes is an OP self heal in combat. I just wish it could proc more often than once per second, kind of like Blur/Mirage's effect. Previous version was Every possible proccing tick, not limited like current. It was also a 20 second buff instead of passive. That was fun times.
Flurry was a broken heal with it. 5 hits of 1000 healing each cast. Now it only procs once per cast, as it's once per second and flurry is 0.7 seconds cast time.
I wouldn't mind if they added some passive effects to Blur. Soul Harvest (Death Stroke Ult Morph) has a passive effect, although weak IMO.

Remember the passives. In Siphoning, Every slotted siphoning skill increases your healing done by 3%. I wish that procced for Siphoning Strikes on backbar.
If they do that though, they'll need a counter to double gaining effect by having it on both bars, like can only be effected by one instance of the slotting, or something. Should be easy enough. They've done that for the perks they give. Siphoning's healing isn't doubled by having it on both bars. Although that'd be pretty fun I'd think. Same goes for some other things as well.
Shadow increases max health for every shadow ability slotted.
Assassination increases critical for every assassination ability slotted.

Also, Shadow Cloak may grant Major Prophecy and Savagery, just like Hunter and Magelight, but Dark Cloak instead grants Minor Protection.
Pair with Flare for Major Protection.

Back to Siphoning Strikes. I have a block tank who uses Thews of the harbinger. His damage output can be pretty rapid if the target attacks fast enough. I just wish Siphoning would proc at the same rate, countering any miniscule damage they do to me. As it is now, an arcanist can cast a beam and far out damage the heal procs from strikes. I even have it morphed to Leeching for extra healing and they still out damage it. I cast Resolving Vigor and they still out damage the heals. Through 85%+ block mitigation and 29k armor. Block tank not armor tank, of course I won't have mac armor. Still trying to perfect the build. Shattered Fate isn't working as intended. Might swap shattered to Thunderbug's or something.
I probably need to open a spot for Blur. Probably gonna ditch Lotus Fan since it kills my block each time I use it.