[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

Tommy_The_Gun

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611025/pts-patch-notes-v8-1-0#latest

Killer's Blade (morph) - This morph now causes the execute scaling to change to a linear increase of up to 400% damage done to targets under 50% Health, rather than the static 300% damage done to targets below 25% Health.

Mass Hysteria (morph) - This morph now removes the target cap from the ability.

It took around 2 years, but... you know what they say - better late than never.
Thank you everyone, we finally did this. ZOS did this. NB got some quality standardization buffs !

birdik

My top 2:

1) Teleport strike,Grim focus, incap long animations

2) Shadow cloak is not reliable ( at least need dot cleanse)

spacefracking

^^^ to the above posters who I'm not going to quote out of respect, because I could reasonably see someone mistaking this thread as a good spot for discussion

The class representative program has been discontinued per official announcement by ZOS pr.

This is an absurdly long thread and a necrotic resurrection of it is not a good forum for addressing concerns about any class, as the thread started four years ago

master_vanargand

Need change Drain Power's Major Brutality and Major Sorcery to Siphoning Strikes.
Do not ignore such a small wish.
I am in despair and have lost the opportunity to play this game.
"PTS Update 35" is a pain.

master_vanargand

Veiled Strike: This ability and its morphs no longer stun enemies when using from their flank.
Developer Comment:
We previously enabled this ability to crowd control targets, as other forms of CC in the Nightblade kit were rather lackluster. After the pass in this Update, this issue has been amended and we're comfortable that the class will still be just as efficient from the shadows without Veiled Strike’s stun, allowing the new morph biases to be the main selling points of the spammable.

It's ridiculous to get rid of the stun.
Remove 100% critical.
I'm despair. Class is dead in PvP.

boi_anachronism_

I have a number of thoughts about nightblade, especially since it is my main class and has been since my 2nd month into the game however I will keep it to two:

1) magblade is substantially behind stamblade in terms of overall power and while stamblade got a buff on several skills in u35 magblade got a nerf on twisting path which was one of the few really useful and effective dots the Magicka side had to offer. This has left magblade in the dust relative to other classes especially when it comes to pve play. Post u35 most folks, myself included, will likely pull that skill in favor of an off class skill which really hurts the uniqueness of the class in a big way, especially considering off class skills do not get any buffs from off class skill lines.

2) magblade has one of the most complicated rotations with light attacks being the main way to proc one of its only skills that provides a real damage boost to the class. It is incredibly unfriendly for new and mid tier players as a result. In general even on live I rarely see dps surpass 95k unless the player has a near perfect rotation. update 35 it will likely top out around 80k for meta players compared to Necro and templar who can still manage around 110k in pts at the meta level. Magblade is left with a distinct disadvantage even relative to stamblade especially when combined with the upcoming changes to light attacks. Please give some love to magblades.

master_vanargand

Veiled Strike is dead.
PvP NB's offensive ability is significantly reduced and its combos are easily avoidable.
Surprise Attack has no surprises and no appeal as a rogue class.

So why not give Teleport Strike stun again?
Mass Hysteria has no damage and cannot be used in combos.
Need add stun to Teleport Strike like in the old days.

master_vanargand

Nightblade is unchanged in the PTS.
Worst, despair, disappointment, pain, sorrow...
The heart that believed was broken.
My patience is at its limit.

Kory

master_vanargand wrote: »

Veiled Strike is dead.
PvP NB's offensive ability is significantly reduced and its combos are easily avoidable.
Surprise Attack has no surprises and no appeal as a rogue class.

So why not give Teleport Strike stun again?
Mass Hysteria has no damage and cannot be used in combos.
Need add stun to Teleport Strike like in the old days.

Yeah the stun was good to kind of make up for the slow recast cooldown on veiled strike. Kept opponents in check sometimes, especially other nightblade or Sorcs, and any other build/class with high mobility or damage mitigation abilities.

It's funny because veiled strike got nerfed in such a round-about way, and at the last minute so even if the change received major pushback, the developers don't have to do anything about it, it was going live anyway. Other classes took certain nerfs as well, so I guess people are like whatever when we look at the stun being removed from Nightblade's veiled strike.

master_vanargand

master_vanargand wrote: »

Veiled Strike is dead.
PvP NB's offensive ability is significantly reduced and its combos are easily avoidable.
Surprise Attack has no surprises and no appeal as a rogue class.

So why not give Teleport Strike stun again?
Mass Hysteria has no damage and cannot be used in combos.
Need add stun to Teleport Strike like in the old days.

Teleport Strike (and morph) is too weak in PvP and PvE.
The old ESO, Teleport Strike have stun.
Now age, need add stun to Teleport Strike.

master_vanargand

Here is the official NB thread, but I doubt ZoS sees this...are you really reading?
NB in 2022 has been inconsistent and skewed differently than players expected.
I'm tired of changing weak skills to weak skills.
NB in 2023 need to change as the Rogue class of real MMO.

kojou

My problem with Nightblade (in PvE) is that it has terrible AOE, and mediocre single target.

I can do ok DPS with it, but the rotation is so much more complicated than other classes that can easily do more. The entire rotation has to be built around Grim Focus which is an ok skill, but every DoT in the Nightblade's arsenal is really weak except Summon Shade.

I assume the damage on Twisting Path is lower because it also gives Major Expedition, but I think too much lower. Major Expedition for such a short duration (once you leave the path) and in a small area is not very useful in PvE, and if I wanted Major Expedition I would probably run Race Against Time or Channeled Acceleration instead. I don't even run the skill on my Nightblade on the occasion that I do PvP because of the limited usefulness (and weakness) of the ground DoT.

I also assume that the damage on Cripple is lower because of the stun/snare, but neither morph is very attractive in my opinion. On Debilitate, 4 seconds of Minor Magicka steal is not worth much, and the snare is probably nice for PvP, but I prefer the stun with Crippling Grasp even though it snares for 30% instead of 50% when I use the skill in PvP. I would like to see the snare removed from Debilitate and have that morph include the DoT effect (and the DoT to be inline with other single target DoTs).

I don't think fixing these 2 skills would put Nightblade on top, but at least it would feel less bad to use.

DrNukenstein

Nightblade's in good spot right now except for several skills that are useless to any build. The big problems are players who think the class needs more than what it has right now to do well, and players who complain about dying to the most difficult to connect combo in the game. The former because buffing night blade any further will lead to nerfs like we have never seen before, and the latter because they are asking for nerfs like we have never seen before without understanding just how hard that combo is to connect and how much damage you have to give up just to make it viable to use that combo under pressure.

I mean really, if you died to incap>bow in a small fight, you ignored 3 sound effects and several behavioral queues that told you to back off. If you died to it in a big fight you either weren't built for a big fight or were getting hit by 3+other people too.

If there are any changes that may benefit the class without breaking it, they would be moving veiled strike to assassination and blur to shadow to make it easier to keep cloak and veiled strike on the same bar.

Thecompton73

kojou wrote: »

My problem with Nightblade (in PvE) is that it has terrible AOE, and mediocre single target.

I can do ok DPS with it, but the rotation is so much more complicated than other classes that can easily do more. The entire rotation has to be built around Grim Focus which is an ok skill, but every DoT in the Nightblade's arsenal is really weak except Summon Shade.

I assume the damage on Twisting Path is lower because it also gives Major Expedition, but I think too much lower. Major Expedition for such a short duration (once you leave the path) and in a small area is not very useful in PvE, and if I wanted Major Expedition I would probably run Race Against Time or Channeled Acceleration instead. I don't even run the skill on my Nightblade on the occasion that I do PvP because of the limited usefulness (and weakness) of the ground DoT.

I also assume that the damage on Cripple is lower because of the stun/snare, but neither morph is very attractive in my opinion. On Debilitate, 4 seconds of Minor Magicka steal is not worth much, and the snare is probably nice for PvP, but I prefer the stun with Crippling Grasp even though it snares for 30% instead of 50% when I use the skill in PvP. I would like to see the snare removed from Debilitate and have that morph include the DoT effect (and the DoT to be inline with other single target DoTs).

I don't think fixing these 2 skills would put Nightblade on top, but at least it would feel less bad to use.

Just from reading this section I don't think you understand quite how Path is working to provide the major expedition and why it's such a desirable skill. The thing is it's applying major expedition again each second, and when it reapplies the existing buff is canceled, or ended as far as Concealed Weapon is concerned. So as long as you're on that path and for nine seconds after you've got an un-named 10% damage buff going for ALL the damage you do. Ranged Blades and Brawl blades in PvP use the healing version and keep it up constantly to fight in.

master_vanargand

Concealed Weapon is too strong and Surprise Attack feels weak.
When I saw a video of PvE stamina NB slotting a Concealed Weapon and spamming Silver Shards, I felt NB lost its identity.
Yes, the DPS in that video was quite high, but it looks like the assassin has lost cool design.

Crow_IX

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611025/pts-patch-notes-v8-1-0#latest

Killer's Blade (morph) - This morph now causes the execute scaling to change to a linear increase of up to 400% damage done to targets under 50% Health, rather than the static 300% damage done to targets below 25% Health.

Mass Hysteria (morph) - This morph now removes the target cap from the ability.

It took around 2 years, but... you know what they say - better late than never.
Thank you everyone, we finally did this. ZOS did this. NB got some quality standardization buffs !

if only fear wasn't such a trash stun taking 4 seconds to go off and cast time locking you for just as long. useless change useless skill. remove cast times.

MurkyWetWolf198

Honestly, Nightblade is in a very solid place relative to the other classes this patch, however there are 2 main concerns as an endgame PvE player;

1. Surprise Attack, the Stamina Morph of Veiled Strike, is never used by Stamblades. The extra damage bonus from Concealed Weapon (the mag morph) makes the stam morph obsolete for most optomized builds, even if the build itself only has Concealed on it's bar just for it's passive effects. I would like to see a small rework of this skill, as Stamina focused Nightblades should run the Stamina skill and not suffer damage loss
2. Relentless Focus, the Stam Morph of Grim Focus, is also made obsolete by it's mag counterpart Merciless Resolve. Merciless Hit's 33% harder, which is a lot, and the only down side is it shortens the buff duration from 1 minute to 40 seconds. 40 seconds is still a really long time, and thus even it being 20 seconds shorter is a very small downside. I would like to see Relentless get a buff, either by making the ability have some AoE damage (which Nightblade sorely lacks in Endgame PvE content), or perhaps increase the Weapon and Spell Damage given by the stacks of the ability

MurkyWetWolf198

However, my complaints as a High-level PvPer are different;
1. Shadowy Disguise is in a tight spot. Without it, a Nightblade has almost no survivability/escapability. With it, they become almost unhittable. I would like more alternatives for escapability and survivability, as being reliant on Shadowy for everything from damage to surviving to stealth (the skill does it all) can be very one-note. Furthermore, I would like some more class options for Marks to counter Shadowy, as currently the only class that can counter Shadowy without Guild Skills is another Nightblade. Like, why can't a Templar, the class with the Spears of Light and Holy Fire, summon some sort of anti-invisibility zone? I know a lot of people either really like Shadowy or really hate it, so I feel it could use some more counters or more alternatives to ease both sides.
Also, If a player actively expends resources to cast a ranged skill such as Snipe, a Nightblade should be hit even if they use Shadowy. Otherwise it is unfair to the other player who spent the resources.
2. Single Target Burst; It is too easy to die to ganking. Now, I'm not saying Nightblade is too powerful (maybe except for making anti-invisibility skills more common to help counter Shadowy), because I think the downsides of building a ganker (being very squishy, low on healing, enemy players can and will focus you out) are worthwhile downsides for that level of strength. That being said, there should be more counterplay to it. Something like counter-healing, or other mechanic to aid players (especially newer PvP players who are often disproportionately targeted by players) in fighting against gankers) Perhaps a longer lasting-shorter range AoE mark that is meant to serve defensively (I'm open to more ideas, having difficulties thinking of good ones), or something else

boi_anachronism_

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Nightblade's in good spot right now except for several skills that are useless to any build. The big problems are players who think the class needs more than what it has right now to do well, and players who complain about dying to the most difficult to connect combo in the game. The former because buffing night blade any further will lead to nerfs like we have never seen before, and the latter because they are asking for nerfs like we have never seen before without understanding just how hard that combo is to connect and how much damage you have to give up just to make it viable to use that combo under pressure.

I mean really, if you died to incap>bow in a small fight, you ignored 3 sound effects and several behavioral queues that told you to back off. If you died to it in a big fight you either weren't built for a big fight or were getting hit by 3+other people too.

If there are any changes that may benefit the class without breaking it, they would be moving veiled strike to assassination and blur to shadow to make it easier to keep cloak and veiled strike on the same bar.

Oh we have seen those nerfs 😂 elswyer anyone. Leave it be, maybe give mass hysteria a little damage and call it good. I'm a nb main for ref.

master_vanargand

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Why are you ignoring Nightblade in PTS?
Nightblade's Stamina DPS and Magicka DPS are currently "weird states of balance", with Stamina DPS suffering from identity loss in PvE and PvP.

master_vanargand wrote: »

Concealed Weapon is too strong and Surprise Attack feels weak.
When I saw a video of PvE stamina NB slotting a Concealed Weapon and spamming Silver Shards, I felt NB lost its identity.
Yes, the DPS in that video was quite high, but it looks like the assassin has lost cool design.

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Honestly, Nightblade is in a very solid place relative to the other classes this patch, however there are 2 main concerns as an endgame PvE player;

1. Surprise Attack, the Stamina Morph of Veiled Strike, is never used by Stamblades. The extra damage bonus from Concealed Weapon (the mag morph) makes the stam morph obsolete for most optomized builds, even if the build itself only has Concealed on it's bar just for it's passive effects. I would like to see a small rework of this skill, as Stamina focused Nightblades should run the Stamina skill and not suffer damage loss
2. Relentless Focus, the Stam Morph of Grim Focus, is also made obsolete by it's mag counterpart Merciless Resolve. Merciless Hit's 33% harder, which is a lot, and the only down side is it shortens the buff duration from 1 minute to 40 seconds. 40 seconds is still a really long time, and thus even it being 20 seconds shorter is a very small downside. I would like to see Relentless get a buff, either by making the ability have some AoE damage (which Nightblade sorely lacks in Endgame PvE content), or perhaps increase the Weapon and Spell Damage given by the stacks of the ability

Now, Stamina Nightblade is weaker when using Surprise Attack (stamina morph) in PvP and PvE.
Concealed Weapons (magicka morph) have "When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Major Expedition ends while in combat, your damage done is increased by 10% for 5 seconds", so even Stamina DPS will not use Surprise Attack (stamina morph).

Also, Concealed Weapons have "While slotted, you gain Minor Expedition, increasing your Movement Speed by 15%", so there is no reason to use Surprise Attack in PvP.
While Concealed Weapon has two big benefits of "+10% damage" and "+15% Movement Speed", Surprise Attack has only one small benefit.

And, Stamina Nightblade uses Merciless Resolve (magick morph) in PvE and PvP.
This is because Merciless Resolve (magicka morph) is better than Relentless Focus (stamina morph).
Do the math, Merciless Resolve does more damage than Relentless Focus. (Better in PvE because better damage allows you to shoot more in relation to execution time.)
and Merciless Resolve has higher heal than Relentless Focus.
This is why Stamina Nightblade does not use Relentless Focus.

Also, Siphoning Passive ability's Magicka Flood has "Increases your Max Magicka by 8% while a Siphoning ability is slotted".
Hybridization? Where is it?

This is the "Strange State of Balance".
And the source of the grief of the "Stamina Nightblade" who suffers from the loss of identity.

Is this an experiment to remove Stamina Nightblade DPS?
If not, please change it immediately.
Patience is the limit.

[Wish list]

1. Need move Concealed Weapon's "When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Major Expedition ends while in combat, your damage done is increased by 10% for 5 seconds" to Veiled Strike (base skill).
2. Make Relentless Focus damage the same as Merciless Resolve.
3. Add "+8% Max Stamina" to Siphoning Passive ability's Magicka Flood. (may need to change the name)
4. Teleport Strike (and morph) is too weak in PvP and PvE. The old ESO, Teleport Strike have stun. Now age, need add stun to Teleport Strike.

AndreNoir

master_vanargand wrote: »

While Concealed Weapon has two big benefits of "+10% damage" and "+15% Movement Speed", Surprise Attack has only one small benefit.

From when minor breach, status effect and option to not build crit chance at all and still benefit from crit damage is an only one SMALL benefit ? And stamina in general can ignore crit chance while magicka guys tied to crit chance anyway

master_vanargand wrote: »

[Wish list]

1. Need move Concealed Weapon's "When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Major Expedition ends while in combat, your damage done is increased by 10% for 5 seconds" to Veiled Strike (base skill).
2. Make Relentless Focus damage the same as Merciless Resolve.
3. Add "+8% Max Stamina" to Siphoning Passive ability's Magicka Flood. (may need to change the name)
4. Teleport Strike (and morph) is too weak in PvP and PvE. The old ESO, Teleport Strike have stun. Now age, need add stun to Teleport Strike.

1. No, thanks, we don't need a complete removal of mag nb sorry
2. No again since stamina already has batter scaling in damage that comes from medium armor
3. No again. Just be happy with better execute, minor savagery and better sap. You aren't gonna heal anyone so you can live without healer passive
4. Agree here. Unstable trash skill

master_vanargand

AndreNoir wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

While Concealed Weapon has two big benefits of "+10% damage" and "+15% Movement Speed", Surprise Attack has only one small benefit.

From when minor breach, status effect and option to not build crit chance at all and still benefit from crit damage is an only one SMALL benefit ? And stamina in general can ignore crit chance while magicka guys tied to crit chance anyway

master_vanargand wrote: »

[Wish list]

1. Need move Concealed Weapon's "When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Major Expedition ends while in combat, your damage done is increased by 10% for 5 seconds" to Veiled Strike (base skill).
2. Make Relentless Focus damage the same as Merciless Resolve.
3. Add "+8% Max Stamina" to Siphoning Passive ability's Magicka Flood. (may need to change the name)
4. Teleport Strike (and morph) is too weak in PvP and PvE. The old ESO, Teleport Strike have stun. Now age, need add stun to Teleport Strike.

1. No, thanks, we don't need a complete removal of mag nb sorry
2. No again since stamina already has batter scaling in damage that comes from medium armor
3. No again. Just be happy with better execute, minor savagery and better sap. You aren't gonna heal anyone so you can live without healer passive
4. Agree here. Unstable trash skill

Stamina also cannot ignore critical chance.
Don't ignore the fact that nobody uses Surprise Attack these days.
Light armor increases critical chance and penetration, and hybridization allows you to freely choose your armor.
Impale is no worse than Killer's Blade, Minor Prophecy is easy to get in group play, Power Extraction is used by no one and Sap Essence is used more.

Foxtrot39

Muh consumming darkness being useless to the caster both damage and utility wise while soul syphon just out heals it

amonengelb16_ESO

Personal requests:
1. Overhaul Consuming Darkness Ultimate: No one uses it beside a really small minority. Idea to stealth other classes is a cool idea, but does not work good in this game. The ulimate's utility is one of the most niche in the game.
2. Rework Impale. Its only used in PvE content, while Killer's Blade is doing a good job in PvP. Moreover, Impale's animation is hardcore clunky: Why not simply "shooting" the blade telepathically instead of striking empty air?
3. Work out Class identity: Magblades should be more like (mid-)ranged Bloodmages/Witches/Shadowmancers and Stamblades like typical melee Assassin archetype.
4. Sap Essence is looking for uniqueness. Its used in PvE due to dealing AoE Magicka Damage, while the healing is not essential. Power Extraction is the way to go in PvP due to debuffs and synergy with sets like Wretched Vitality.

RedFireDisco

Swallow soul needs a serious buff. Every other spammable outclasses it by a long long way.

With most of cyrodiil running brokensoul, a ranged NB has absolutely no way of killing anyone.

DrNukenstein

On behalf of the ganker delegation I propose the following changes to revitalize the play style and diversify the complaints against this class.

-Give the surprise attack crit bonus crit damage, and have a cooldown timer for the proc
-revert the change to crushing/elemental weapon removing stealth
-rework assassins mark into a delayed burst ability
-make incap stun at base cost, idc if reave gets removed
-Make consuming darkness a potent personal steroid or team utility ultimate. Right now it's best practical use is balancing shadow passives between bars.
-give dark shade a reactivation effect. It probably still wouldn't be used by gankers unless it was some extra off gcd burst, but it needs something to compete with the incredible utility of shadow image.
-replace the stun duration bonus from master assassin with a modest damage bonus on sneak attacks. like 2/3s of a psijic orb.

Papasears1982

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

1) Dark Cloak: This move feels unfinished to me. For starters the move looks the exact same, and even has the same animation as it did before Summerset; I was hoping for something unique. The minor protection duration is also way too short, and I think a 10 second duration would be more appropriate. I also think its crit chance should be based on whichever crit rating is higher for you. My Nightblade tank has 25% weapon crit, and 10% spell crit. I know sap tanking is a thing, but that's not the way I tank. Currently this move's heal favors one type of tank over another.

2) Master Assassin: this passive is useless in almost all situations. Could we please see how we can improve this for something outside of ganking? Maybe something to help tanks?

wait help NB tanks? wait a min your starting to make too much sense here XD

GrimStyx

I have only one
change dark cloack, increase dark cloack duration, 15-16 sec, make it more protective for those nb who like to play in open clash, than through invis, bad decision to increase the healing from standing still, change the condition to a more useful one.

master_vanargand

@ZOS_GinaBruno

"Concealed Weapon" has "your damage done is increased by 10%" and "increasing your Movement Speed by 15%".
"Surprise Attack" has "the Sundered status effect".
Don't you feel "game balance is bad" comparing these two?

We "Stamina Nightblade" have lost our identity.
Can only "Magicka Nightblade" play DPS?

This is too unfair.

Need move Concealed Weapon's "your damage done is increased by 10%" to Veiled Strike (base skill).
Don't penalize people who like "Stamina Nightblade DPS".

I'm not asking you to do anything difficult.
"Play how you like" requires "game balance".

master_vanargand

@ZOS_Kevin

I despaired of this update.

"Concealed Weapon" has "your damage done is increased by 10%" and "increasing your Movement Speed by 15%".
"Surprise Attack" has "the Sundered status effect".
Don't you feel "game balance is bad" comparing these two?

We "Stamina Nightblade" have lost our identity.
Can only "Magicka Nightblade" play DPS?

This is too unfair.

I'm not asking you to do anything difficult.
"Play how you like" requires "game balance".