The title says it allI suggest we discuss the concept of level progression stopping at 50, and continuing with CP acquisition vs Veteran ranks. Let's leave all the bugs/lags/technical difficulties 'what ifs' out of discussion! Pretty please
hydrocynus wrote: »I will say again. None of this is relevant till we know how gear progression will work....
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Actually, with zero further levels to attain aside from some passive, background fraction-of-a-percentage increases to various specific use situations; the removal of VR's and going to CP's only is the very definition of Horizontal Progression.It seems clear that those opposed to this change don't fully understand it. This change is 100% positive without any drawbacks.
Also, please stop referring to the CP system as "horizontal character progression" - the CP system is vertical.They have released zero information on how it will work. Aside from *** extraction, how did you come by this information?With each 3 CP you gain in all stat pools and see an increase in damage, sustain, and passive defense. It's actually MORE vertical than VR. Gear is irrelevant because it will be tied to CP rank instead of VR.
IcyDeadPeople wrote: »Then congratulations on reaching 3600 champion points. You won the game!Its the same as with the real world these days, no one wants to work to get anything, they just want it handed to them with as little effort on their parts as possible.
Work? This game is not my job. I do not pay to play this game to put a roof over my head and food on my table. This is a game that I am paying to play, to have fun. I've already experienced getting to VR 16 and doing it on multiple characters = not fun.
Simple, replace work with effort, time, any number of words that will amount to the same thing. Give me a game that i am not earning anything and i will show you a boring game.
We will still be earning champion points across all veteran ranked characters while we play. Isn't that enough for people who feel the need to work for something in a game??
Not if you are capped already.
If anyone in this game has 3600 CP's let me know DA. I have 501, which is cap last time i looked.
Once you reach 501, you don't stop increasing in level, this is just the point where the grind begins to slow down. It takes a hell of a lot more XP for the 502nd, 503rd, etc. It will likely be several years before anyone reaches Rank 3600.
hydrocynus wrote: »I will say again. None of this is relevant till we know how gear progression will work....
We already have details of that. It may change, but it won't change much. You will need CP equal to the VR level of the gear times ten. So the most you will need for current gear is 160cp. This has been linked so many times that frequent forum goers should know it inside out. That includes yourself.
The title says it allI suggest we discuss the concept of level progression stopping at 50, and continuing with CP acquisition vs Veteran ranks. Let's leave all the bugs/lags/technical difficulties 'what ifs' out of discussion! Pretty please
Wait; are they simply removing the whole progression of VET 1 to VET 16?
If yes, then the max lvl to reach would be lvl 50??
But that sounds so primitive, isn’t the PVE content also about developing ur character throughout the VET lvls
So are they are making the game much shorter?
IcyDeadPeople wrote: »Then congratulations on reaching 3600 champion points. You won the game!Its the same as with the real world these days, no one wants to work to get anything, they just want it handed to them with as little effort on their parts as possible.
Work? This game is not my job. I do not pay to play this game to put a roof over my head and food on my table. This is a game that I am paying to play, to have fun. I've already experienced getting to VR 16 and doing it on multiple characters = not fun.
Simple, replace work with effort, time, any number of words that will amount to the same thing. Give me a game that i am not earning anything and i will show you a boring game.
We will still be earning champion points across all veteran ranked characters while we play. Isn't that enough for people who feel the need to work for something in a game??
Not if you are capped already.
If anyone in this game has 3600 CP's let me know DA. I have 501, which is cap last time i looked.
Once you reach 501, you don't stop increasing in level, this is just the point where the grind begins to slow down. It takes a hell of a lot more XP for the 502nd, 503rd, etc. It will likely be several years before anyone reaches Rank 3600.
That is exactly what i said, several times actually, and with increases of 50 CP's every quarter or so i will progress once every quarter of so.As it stands i will be at cap every time they raise the cap. So i can play as much as i want after DB comes out and i will level up about 4 times a year. Thats not progression!
Really? That's how it works now?Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Actually, with zero further levels to attain aside from some passive, background fraction-of-a-percentage increases to various specific use situations; the removal of VR's and going to CP's only is the very definition of Horizontal Progression.It seems clear that those opposed to this change don't fully understand it. This change is 100% positive without any drawbacks.
Also, please stop referring to the CP system as "horizontal character progression" - the CP system is vertical.They have released zero information on how it will work. Aside from *** extraction, how did you come by this information?With each 3 CP you gain in all stat pools and see an increase in damage, sustain, and passive defense. It's actually MORE vertical than VR. Gear is irrelevant because it will be tied to CP rank instead of VR.
I disagree completely - the CP system has ALL of the aspects of a vertical progression system. And no, I did glean the info via *** extraction - what I described is how it works NOW. They will also very likely increase the stat gain per CP further after VR removal. Like I said, people opposed don't actually understand the system.
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Really? That's how it works now?Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Actually, with zero further levels to attain aside from some passive, background fraction-of-a-percentage increases to various specific use situations; the removal of VR's and going to CP's only is the very definition of Horizontal Progression.It seems clear that those opposed to this change don't fully understand it. This change is 100% positive without any drawbacks.
Also, please stop referring to the CP system as "horizontal character progression" - the CP system is vertical.They have released zero information on how it will work. Aside from *** extraction, how did you come by this information?With each 3 CP you gain in all stat pools and see an increase in damage, sustain, and passive defense. It's actually MORE vertical than VR. Gear is irrelevant because it will be tied to CP rank instead of VR.
I disagree completely - the CP system has ALL of the aspects of a vertical progression system. And no, I did glean the info via *** extraction - what I described is how it works NOW. They will also very likely increase the stat gain per CP further after VR removal. Like I said, people opposed don't actually understand the system.
When was the last time you got 1-5 CP's and your Magicka, Stamina, or Health went up? When was the last time you got a CP and you received a Skill point from it? When was the last time you got a CP and received anything more than a passive, background, fraction of a percentage increase to... anything?
This move will halt any/all forward progression. Your characters won't actually grow any more than they did once they hit lvl50. You will hit lvl 50, then skyrocket to max level/CP. Then that's it. Done.
Nowhere else to go.
That's the very definition of horizontal progression.
Ah, the cheap "cop-out" argument. Well done.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Really? That's how it works now?Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Actually, with zero further levels to attain aside from some passive, background fraction-of-a-percentage increases to various specific use situations; the removal of VR's and going to CP's only is the very definition of Horizontal Progression.It seems clear that those opposed to this change don't fully understand it. This change is 100% positive without any drawbacks.
Also, please stop referring to the CP system as "horizontal character progression" - the CP system is vertical.They have released zero information on how it will work. Aside from *** extraction, how did you come by this information?With each 3 CP you gain in all stat pools and see an increase in damage, sustain, and passive defense. It's actually MORE vertical than VR. Gear is irrelevant because it will be tied to CP rank instead of VR.
I disagree completely - the CP system has ALL of the aspects of a vertical progression system. And no, I did glean the info via *** extraction - what I described is how it works NOW. They will also very likely increase the stat gain per CP further after VR removal. Like I said, people opposed don't actually understand the system.
When was the last time you got 1-5 CP's and your Magicka, Stamina, or Health went up? When was the last time you got a CP and you received a Skill point from it? When was the last time you got a CP and received anything more than a passive, background, fraction of a percentage increase to... anything?
This move will halt any/all forward progression. Your characters won't actually grow any more than they did once they hit lvl50. You will hit lvl 50, then skyrocket to max level/CP. Then that's it. Done.
Nowhere else to go.
That's the very definition of horizontal progression.
I suggest you record all your stats then reset your cp and see the difference. Then come back and apologise.
hydrocynus wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »I will say again. None of this is relevant till we know how gear progression will work....
We already have details of that. It may change, but it won't change much. You will need CP equal to the VR level of the gear times ten. So the most you will need for current gear is 160cp. This has been linked so many times that frequent forum goers should know it inside out. That includes yourself.
You have told me nothing l. How will progression work past 160? If I have 551 cp how much better is my gear than someone with 160? That is the crux because the answer to that will determine whether you will see zone chat posts like "LFG gold DD CP501" or not. Does anyone know the answer to that? If so tell me and I will consider myself educated.
If your at 160cp or higher, you won't notice any difference. The only change is you won't need to level alts past 50.
Except that the Dodo went extinct due to being hunted to extinction by Man, not that it had "outlived its time".Shadesofkin wrote: »The title says it allI suggest we discuss the concept of level progression stopping at 50, and continuing with CP acquisition vs Veteran ranks. Let's leave all the bugs/lags/technical difficulties 'what ifs' out of discussion! Pretty please
Wait; are they simply removing the whole progression of VET 1 to VET 16?
If yes, then the max lvl to reach would be lvl 50??
But that sounds so primitive, isn’t the PVE content also about developing ur character throughout the VET lvls
So are they are making the game much shorter?
No.
The Veteran system was always just a place holder, it was literally forced into the game in an effort to appease everyone when they realized they were locked out of parts of the game based on faction (a huge mistake from the get-go) and was always meant to be replaced eventually.
Now, they have waited a very long time, but it has always been known that VR was meant to be gone at some point, that it like the Dodo bird, had outlived it's time. The incentive to do quests, to learn and play and enjoy the game will be in crafting, skills, and gear alongside the Champion Constellations which will increase the base stats and improve various parts of your characters performance based solely on their accumulation and allocation.
Vet levels were awful, they shouldn't have existed in the first place and thank the divines they're going.
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Really? That's how it works now?Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Actually, with zero further levels to attain aside from some passive, background fraction-of-a-percentage increases to various specific use situations; the removal of VR's and going to CP's only is the very definition of Horizontal Progression.It seems clear that those opposed to this change don't fully understand it. This change is 100% positive without any drawbacks.
Also, please stop referring to the CP system as "horizontal character progression" - the CP system is vertical.They have released zero information on how it will work. Aside from *** extraction, how did you come by this information?With each 3 CP you gain in all stat pools and see an increase in damage, sustain, and passive defense. It's actually MORE vertical than VR. Gear is irrelevant because it will be tied to CP rank instead of VR.
I disagree completely - the CP system has ALL of the aspects of a vertical progression system. And no, I did glean the info via *** extraction - what I described is how it works NOW. They will also very likely increase the stat gain per CP further after VR removal. Like I said, people opposed don't actually understand the system.
When was the last time you got 1-5 CP's and your Magicka, Stamina, or Health went up? When was the last time you got a CP and you received a Skill point from it? When was the last time you got a CP and received anything more than a passive, background, fraction of a percentage increase to... anything?
This move will halt any/all forward progression. Your characters won't actually grow any more than they did once they hit lvl50. You will hit lvl 50, then skyrocket to max level/CP. Then that's it. Done.
Nowhere else to go.
That's the very definition of horizontal progression.
I suggest you record all your stats then reset your cp and see the difference. Then come back and apologise.
All the VR removal does is cater to casuals who complained about not being on equal footing with those of us who actually put in time to be maxed level. If this was extended ZOS should have had it in the game from day 1.
I don't care anymore since I've already gone through the painful process of leveling multiple characters to vr16 and their going along with it anyways, but I have to give a big "*** YOU" to ZOS for implementing this BS!
Plan your game better!
hydrocynus wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »I will say again. None of this is relevant till we know how gear progression will work....
We already have details of that. It may change, but it won't change much. You will need CP equal to the VR level of the gear times ten. So the most you will need for current gear is 160cp. This has been linked so many times that frequent forum goers should know it inside out. That includes yourself.
You have told me nothing l. How will progression work past 160? If I have 551 cp how much better is my gear than someone with 160? That is the crux because the answer to that will determine whether you will see zone chat posts like "LFG gold DD CP501" or not. Does anyone know the answer to that? If so tell me and I will consider myself educated.
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Really? That's how it works now?Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Actually, with zero further levels to attain aside from some passive, background fraction-of-a-percentage increases to various specific use situations; the removal of VR's and going to CP's only is the very definition of Horizontal Progression.It seems clear that those opposed to this change don't fully understand it. This change is 100% positive without any drawbacks.
Also, please stop referring to the CP system as "horizontal character progression" - the CP system is vertical.They have released zero information on how it will work. Aside from *** extraction, how did you come by this information?With each 3 CP you gain in all stat pools and see an increase in damage, sustain, and passive defense. It's actually MORE vertical than VR. Gear is irrelevant because it will be tied to CP rank instead of VR.
I disagree completely - the CP system has ALL of the aspects of a vertical progression system. And no, I did glean the info via *** extraction - what I described is how it works NOW. They will also very likely increase the stat gain per CP further after VR removal. Like I said, people opposed don't actually understand the system.
When was the last time you got 1-5 CP's and your Magicka, Stamina, or Health went up? When was the last time you got a CP and you received a Skill point from it? When was the last time you got a CP and received anything more than a passive, background, fraction of a percentage increase to... anything?
This move will halt any/all forward progression. Your characters won't actually grow any more than they did once they hit lvl50. You will hit lvl 50, then skyrocket to max level/CP. Then that's it. Done.
Nowhere else to go.
That's the very definition of horizontal progression.
I suggest you record all your stats then reset your cp and see the difference. Then come back and apologise.
I would like to see a link showing this information, one to where ZOS has said this. This is something i was not aware of, or forgot, and i have been playing since beta. I still do not like it, but that would make it a little, very little, bit easier to swallow.
Remember hitting that first VR1 on your first character? Remember how good that felt to finally reach that level and feel like you're part of the elite? That'll be removed for new gamers and the motivation for levelling will almost stop once they've hit 50. They're taking hours of gameplay away from people, people like me need XP and levelling to continue.
The price of the game has dropped, subscription is no longer required, DLC's are expanding zones and adding more gameplay. For newbies to the game, which obviously there are new players starting every single day, that feeling of hitting their first VR will be removed and I'm worried they'll just check out once they've done it once.
I think it also punishes solo players like myself, ZOS are focussing too much of the effect it'll have on PVP and Groups. For solo players, once we've completed the main quests in our alliances, where's the motivation to complete Cadwells Silver/Gold apart from CP points as a bonus?
I want to keep VR levels, for the sake of new players to the game. It's an MMO, it's not meant to be maxed level after a couple of weeks of playing, it's meant to be a slog!
vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »No they shouldnt be removed! What about all the time i spent doing this!
hydrocynus wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »I will say again. None of this is relevant till we know how gear progression will work....
We already have details of that. It may change, but it won't change much. You will need CP equal to the VR level of the gear times ten. So the most you will need for current gear is 160cp. This has been linked so many times that frequent forum goers should know it inside out. That includes yourself.
You have told me nothing l. How will progression work past 160? If I have 551 cp how much better is my gear than someone with 160? That is the crux because the answer to that will determine whether you will see zone chat posts like "LFG gold DD CP501" or not. Does anyone know the answer to that? If so tell me and I will consider myself educated.
Ok so champion points are the new benchmark for post-50 advancement, replacing vet lvls, THEN if you are now seeing LFG requests listing VR requirements it follows that the folks declaring VR in their LFG now would also do it for CP.
Also, it has been said and/or alluded to that they do not pkan to raise gear power beyond VR16 eq immediately, if at all. There has been NO suggestion by ZOS that we will see CP500 gear, not this release.
That is not different than VR. Been at VR 16 for a while with no hints of VR18 coming for gear or any reason.
If your at 160cp or higher, you won't notice any difference. The only change is you won't need to level alts past 50.
And that is exactly the change we are upset about. The first character can "level up" via CP points because they will have none at level 50, and thereby can also use gear as visible progression. But once you have done the content once, you're done. Getting an alt to 50 takes virtually no time at all and since they will be instant max level at 50, there is no drive to continue for those of us that don't care about endgame PvP. And since most of us have one V16 already, the new change will mean there isn't much left in this game for us.
And to be honest, as a casual PvE quester, I don't really care about CP at all. I generally don't even pay attention when I get one and only remember to assign them when I have a stack piled up. The game was so much more of a challenge without them and now it all just feels like easy mode.
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Except that the Dodo went extinct due to being hunted to extinction by Man, not that it had "outlived its time".Shadesofkin wrote: »The title says it allI suggest we discuss the concept of level progression stopping at 50, and continuing with CP acquisition vs Veteran ranks. Let's leave all the bugs/lags/technical difficulties 'what ifs' out of discussion! Pretty please
Wait; are they simply removing the whole progression of VET 1 to VET 16?
If yes, then the max lvl to reach would be lvl 50??
But that sounds so primitive, isn’t the PVE content also about developing ur character throughout the VET lvls
So are they are making the game much shorter?
No.
The Veteran system was always just a place holder, it was literally forced into the game in an effort to appease everyone when they realized they were locked out of parts of the game based on faction (a huge mistake from the get-go) and was always meant to be replaced eventually.
Now, they have waited a very long time, but it has always been known that VR was meant to be gone at some point, that it like the Dodo bird, had outlived it's time. The incentive to do quests, to learn and play and enjoy the game will be in crafting, skills, and gear alongside the Champion Constellations which will increase the base stats and improve various parts of your characters performance based solely on their accumulation and allocation.
Vet levels were awful, they shouldn't have existed in the first place and thank the divines they're going.
Just saying.
IcyDeadPeople wrote: »Then congratulations on reaching 3600 champion points. You won the game!Its the same as with the real world these days, no one wants to work to get anything, they just want it handed to them with as little effort on their parts as possible.
Work? This game is not my job. I do not pay to play this game to put a roof over my head and food on my table. This is a game that I am paying to play, to have fun. I've already experienced getting to VR 16 and doing it on multiple characters = not fun.
Simple, replace work with effort, time, any number of words that will amount to the same thing. Give me a game that i am not earning anything and i will show you a boring game.
We will still be earning champion points across all veteran ranked characters while we play. Isn't that enough for people who feel the need to work for something in a game??
Not if you are capped already.
If anyone in this game has 3600 CP's let me know DA. I have 501, which is cap last time i looked.
Once you reach 501, you don't stop increasing in level, this is just the point where the grind begins to slow down. It takes a hell of a lot more XP for the 502nd, 503rd, etc. It will likely be several years before anyone reaches Rank 3600.