dday3six wrote: »

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

no it's not, but guess what, if you believe otherwise, seems you ain't that skilled at it after all.

1. be in sneak, (for extra damage buff and stun)
2. get into position
3. charge up heavy attack
4. cast attack skill (preferably with a CC)
5. cancel animation by bash (for extra damage)
6. throw down dawnbreaker, as it procs right away again on cast (no delay on second damage)
7. use any executioner skill on target if still alive while it gets up (now that takes precious time)

sure takes 2 seconds for wind up and preparing ...
But, all damage lands in the same slice.
Instant death on the receiving end with ZERO warning.
You don't even see it coming.

Working as intended? Sure hope not!
Working anyway? Sure does!

And this is on an nearly empty campaign, dead of night with ping rate well below 100.
So you tell me that fairy tale about lag being the sole problem here?
Sorry, not buying.

So you're going to question my skill while presenting all that misinformation, and outlining a terrible opening. That's funny.

First off, you're talking about ganking on a stationary target. Those situations are uncommon at best. They're deadly with or without weaves and animation canceling because it's an ambush. The point is to catch the opponent unprepared. However, if players choose more wisely how, when, and where they stand still, that sort of heavy attack opener from stealth is far less likely to happen.

Also note that post TG update running either morph of Magelight will pretty much make a player immune to that sort of ambush, because the attacker would be revealed before their heavy attack winds up. At that point it's up to the potential victim to be paying attention. At present there are several ground based AOEs (Caltrops, Daedric Mines, etc.) which can be stood in during times when standing still is required that would prevent the attack from happening.

Your ping is not the only thing that matters, the other players ping is also important. Just because your connect is fast doesn't mean the other players is as well.

Furthermore the opener you suggested is sloppy and amateur. You're missing Camo Hunter, which is a guaranteed proc out of stealth. Next, you wouldn't cast CC on a target that is already stunned from an attack out of stealth. They'd already be CC'd, thus you'd be wasting an action that doesn't deal damage. Then, since the Ultimate you suggest is Dawnbreaker, and has a DOT that would be the best follow up to cancel the animation of a heavy attack opener. Doing it that way would allow the DOT longer to tick. (Note: Pre-IC Dawnbreaker of Smithing was able to be front loaded by animation canceling it. That was fixed with IC.) You'd block cancel the Dawnbreaker, but wouldn't bash cancel unless running 1H&S cause the damage would be awful compared to just using a instant cast, damage dealing skill.

What seems to happen is you have an issue with stealth gameplay in ESO, and have smashed that into an issue with animation canceling. Nothing you've described would happen in the same slice as you put it. And frankly if someone used this opener on you, you missed you chance to counter, which would have been during the wasted CC used to weave into a heavy attack.

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs&ab_channel=BlastedAssassin

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

no it's not, but guess what, if you believe otherwise, seems you ain't that skilled at it after all.

1. be in sneak, (for extra damage buff and stun)
2. get into position
3. charge up heavy attack
4. cast attack skill (preferably with a CC)
5. cancel animation by bash (for extra damage)
6. throw down dawnbreaker, as it procs right away again on cast (no delay on second damage)
7. use any executioner skill on target if still alive while it gets up (now that takes precious time)

sure takes 2 seconds for wind up and preparing ...
But, all damage lands in the same slice.
Instant death on the receiving end with ZERO warning.
You don't even see it coming.

Working as intended? Sure hope not!
Working anyway? Sure does!

And this is on an nearly empty campaign, dead of night with ping rate well below 100.
So you tell me that fairy tale about lag being the sole problem here?
Sorry, not buying.

So you're going to question my skill while presenting all that misinformation, and outlining a terrible opening. That's funny.

First off, you're talking about ganking on a stationary target. Those situations are uncommon at best. They're deadly with or without weaves and animation canceling because it's an ambush. The point is to catch the opponent unprepared. However, if players choose more wisely how, when, and where they stand still, that sort of heavy attack opener from stealth is far less likely to happen.

Also note that post TG update running either morph of Magelight will pretty much make a player immune to that sort of ambush, because the attacker would be revealed before their heavy attack winds up. At that point it's up to the potential victim to be paying attention. At present there are several ground based AOEs (Caltrops, Daedric Mines, etc.) which can be stood in during times when standing still is required that would prevent the attack from happening.

Your ping is not the only thing that matters, the other players ping is also important. Just because your connect is fast doesn't mean the other players is as well.

Furthermore the opener you suggested is sloppy and amateur. You're missing Camo Hunter, which is a guaranteed proc out of stealth. Next, you wouldn't cast CC on a target that is already stunned from an attack out of stealth. They'd already be CC'd, thus you'd be wasting an action that doesn't deal damage. Then, since the Ultimate you suggest is Dawnbreaker, and has a DOT that would be the best follow up to cancel the animation of a heavy attack opener. Doing it that way would allow the DOT longer to tick. (Note: Pre-IC Dawnbreaker of Smithing was able to be front loaded by animation canceling it. That was fixed with IC.) You'd block cancel the Dawnbreaker, but wouldn't bash cancel unless running 1H&S cause the damage would be awful compared to just using a instant cast, damage dealing skill.

What seems to happen is you have an issue with stealth gameplay in ESO, and have smashed that into an issue with animation canceling. Nothing you've described would happen in the same slice as you put it. And frankly if someone used this opener on you, you missed you chance to counter, which would have been during the wasted CC used to weave into a heavy attack.

Buffing up before an attack goes without saying. Seriously, that's basic, not skill.

And when you want to take a flag, you gotta stand there. In any case. That was just one of many examples. There are a lot more and different situations. Most of which make even more use of AC to get an advantage.

And it's not just the ping rate of either system, but the FPS that is an even stronger factor in influencing the outcome of a battle as ZOS in their infinite whatever choose to bind the time your key press is being reported to the server on when the next frame update is finished. Guess whose key press is already being processed by the servers while the key press of a casual gamer (maybe even on a laptop) still sits around and waits on finally being send. Right, the one from the one with the gaming rig.
Skill? Not at all. Just a hidden: pay to win.

Also there are a ton of skills that do damage AND CC (not stun, stealth got that covered already). Ever heard of wrecking blow (knock down)? And it's hardly the only one (and some are instant). And as all action on the target is reported at once. There isn't a window for reaction. Bang your are dead (in above example).

Your original point was that AC is bad because it doesn't allow changing your action, even if said action was a movement.
Now you talk about anything but that. Changing targets ain't we?

And no, don't have an issue with stealth play. More an issue with how badly stealth is implemented (and getting worse with TG, but that's a completely different can of worms)

Axorn wrote: »

Yes animation canceling ruin pvp its a freakin glitch and it feeds scripters and macro users. Go make some light attack weaving macro with your mouse software you will see what im talking about and it becomes more OP in the hand of a scripter and ZOS cant detect scripters or macro users its so lame.

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

...
No, my original point was that I've a hard time taking the anti-AC crowd seriously because many just want animation canceling removed, without the distinction of stating they really just don't want effects to be applied if an animation is canceled. It is an important point because it displays a basic understanding of how modern video games function. There is also a good amount of blame cast on AC for what players mistakening believe is done with macros, but is actually lag.
...

Autolycus wrote: »

Can we just get over this already? I mean really, how many times do we have to discuss it before people get tired of the topic?

Everyone can animation cancel. Nobody has an advantage that every other player doesn't also have access to, therefore it is fair. It doesn't matter if you are running a macro or just spent a ton of time practicing how to ani cancel, the result is the same.

If you don't like the way the combat functions in this game, go play a different one.

dday3six wrote: »

Do you have proof of your claims?


What if I want you to provide proof of your claim? There are people who keep saying these things, and they'll happily tell another to go test it for themselves, but they never are willing to provide evidence of this claim.

JackDaniell wrote: »

Taking away animation cancelling would ruin the responsiveness and flow of combat, the problem isn't that cancelling is hard to learn or cheating, it's that most people just haven't been taught how to do it. If you don't want to learn to cancel spam this like jabs and wrecking blow.