Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment

Eejit1331 · July 2015

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

This thread is becoming redundant, cloak and bolt escape are not the same mechanically, visually, or any of the sort.

You are right. Cloak is so much more op. When I can heavy attack, clip with cloak, side step and repeat till dead and without the enemy ever seeing me, that's op. I'm not asking for a nerf I'm asking for equal treatment.

Treassach_ESO · July 2015

olsborg wrote: »

the BE nerf is too strict. 33% stacking would be better. if they put such a heavy cost increase that stacks per use, why even have the skill...just delete it and give sorcs something else.

Because now it will be used as intended, once maybe twice as an "o ***" button, not as a "eh I have a chance of losing let me bolt across the map to my keep that is half the map away and evade people even if they on horseback" any ability that practically guarantees survival is a broken ability, you are not meant to have a guaranteed escape merely a chance to maybe if your lucky escape by not being in the middle of the enemy forces anymore. Shield stacking is being left alone so you still have the most survivalbility of any class as well as damage nearly on par with DKs and they are supposed to be the uber tank/melee dps due to having no ability to disengage.

Ezareth · July 2015

Vizier wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Vizier
Base cost Bolt Escape 3351 magicka for the first BE, the following 50% more so 5026 magicka.
Base cost Dark Cloak 3591 magicka.

BE is 15m teleport which doesnt reduce or mitigate any damage other than going beyond the range of your opponent or out of his line of sight. This can be countered by long range abilities, gap closers or speed buffs.

Dark Cloak give 2.9 second invis which prevents other players from hitting you, it also removes DoTs. This can be countered with detection pots, AoE, flare and mage light.

The difference is that stamina NBs are popular, stamina sorcs not so much. Thats why cloak usually isnt spammed as many times in succession as BE, stamina NBs simply dont have the magicka for it. Please dont compare the use of magicka based skills on stamina builds with magicka based skills on magicka builds.

Magicka NBs can keep Cloak up all the time if they have decent magicka regen.

Of course I can compare it. And a magicka sorc with high regen can spam cloak all they need to. I see it all the time and those dudes you don't catch. Not very often anyway, especially with that light sucking up anything you might shoot at them. (you forget about that part?) The assertion was that BE takes more resources than it takes for a NB to maintain a high rate of speed. There are two types of NB so I try to speak of both when showing how wrong that assertion was...shrug.

Look. I have a Stam NB and a Magicka NB. And my Magicka NB can keep cloak up for a long time. If I'm pushing it, however, to keep up with a bolting sorc, there's other skills involved, like double take or Rapid Maneuvers still. Just because I'm a magicka NB and can spam cloak doesn't give me all the speed I need to stay in the hunt of a bolting sorc. Anyone saying so is full of crap or lying through their teeth.

My stamina NB just goes into stealth/crouch and then spams double take but might Rapid Maneuver depending on resources or if locked out of stealth. My magicka NB spams cloak and double take. In which case my magicka depletes pretty quick but regens fast as soon as switch to crouch/stealth and just use double take. That NB doesn't use a bow so DR is not a factor, but of course I don't get that extra boost unless I actually sprint.

Still the whole premise of cloak somehow being OP with all it's counters and it's cost and that it should be giving the same treatment as BE is utterly ridiculous, because as shown over and over it's just not the same spell with the same usage or utility as BE. There's a reason the community demanded BE be somehow toned down and that was it's utility. The only thing we heard regarding cloak was how broken it was as a skill. The impetus of the whole argument seems to be one should be nerfed merely because BE was. It's just not a good enough reason. Now some soured Sorcs want to have Cloak nerfed just as it's finally getting the fixes it was supposed to have. LoLs I say. Lols.

I just want to say that I can not only keep up with any Bolt Escaping sorc in the game by spamming Double-take and Sprinting on my stamina nightblade, but I can do it longer than they can since I can pretty much sprint indefinitely and spam double take every 4 second with my existing magicka regen so no they're not lying through their teeth.

Magicka nightblades can't keep up with a sorc even with cloak/concealed weapon and double-take spam.

That said I don't have a problem with cloak, but we'll see how that changes if detection pots are rendered obsolete.

Eejit1331 · July 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Vizier
Base cost Bolt Escape 3351 magicka for the first BE, the following 50% more so 5026 magicka.
Base cost Dark Cloak 3591 magicka.

BE is 15m teleport which doesnt reduce or mitigate any damage other than going beyond the range of your opponent or out of his line of sight. This can be countered by long range abilities, gap closers or speed buffs.

Dark Cloak give 2.9 second invis which prevents other players from hitting you, it also removes DoTs. This can be countered with detection pots, AoE, flare and mage light.

The difference is that stamina NBs are popular, stamina sorcs not so much. Thats why cloak usually isnt spammed as many times in succession as BE, stamina NBs simply dont have the magicka for it. Please dont compare the use of magicka based skills on stamina builds with magicka based skills on magicka builds.

Magicka NBs can keep Cloak up all the time if they have decent magicka regen.

Of course I can compare it. And a magicka sorc with high regen can spam cloak all they need to. I see it all the time and those dudes you don't catch. Not very often anyway, especially with that light sucking up anything you might shoot at them. (you forget about that part?) The assertion was that BE takes more resources than it takes for a NB to maintain a high rate of speed. There are two types of NB so I try to speak of both when showing how wrong that assertion was...shrug.

Look. I have a Stam NB and a Magicka NB. And my Magicka NB can keep cloak up for a long time. If I'm pushing it, however, to keep up with a bolting sorc, there's other skills involved, like double take or Rapid Maneuvers still. Just because I'm a magicka NB and can spam cloak doesn't give me all the speed I need to stay in the hunt of a bolting sorc. Anyone saying so is full of crap or lying through their teeth.

My stamina NB just goes into stealth/crouch and then spams double take but might Rapid Maneuver depending on resources or if locked out of stealth. My magicka NB spams cloak and double take. In which case my magicka depletes pretty quick but regens fast as soon as switch to crouch/stealth and just use double take. That NB doesn't use a bow so DR is not a factor, but of course I don't get that extra boost unless I actually sprint.

Still the whole premise of cloak somehow being OP with all it's counters and it's cost and that it should be giving the same treatment as BE is utterly ridiculous, because as shown over and over it's just not the same spell with the same usage or utility as BE. There's a reason the community demanded BE be somehow toned down and that was it's utility. The only thing we heard regarding cloak was how broken it was as a skill. The impetus of the whole argument seems to be one should be nerfed merely because BE was. It's just not a good enough reason. Now some soured Sorcs want to have Cloak nerfed just as it's finally getting the fixes it was supposed to have. LoLs I say. Lols.

I just want to say that I can not only keep up with any Bolt Escaping sorc in the game by spamming Double-take and Sprinting on my stamina nightblade, but I can do it longer than they can since I can pretty much sprint indefinitely and spam double take every 4 second with my existing magicka regen so no they're not lying through their teeth.

Magicka nightblades can't keep up with a sorc even with cloak/concealed weapon and double-take spam.

That said I don't have a problem with cloak, but we'll see how that changes if detection pots are rendered obsolete.

If it was a 50 meter race, the sorc would win. If it is 100 meter race, the sorc would be dead, expecially on my magicka NB since the sorc has no idea that I am there. A sorc hiding around a Rock or tree trying to stealth after exhausting all of his or her magicka does not fair well against me and my 80% magicka left. Rapid maneuver + concealed weapon + cloak (iI am a vamp) + Breton = lots of cloaking and for a very little cost. Sorc with no resources + my magicka NB at 80% = dead Sorc.