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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
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• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment
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Eejit1331✭✭✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
So heavily nerf sorcs only defense and then make it so a CC with no immunity timer completely shuts down their movement advantage! Brilliant! I would say you should stick to talking about your own class but it seems you don't understand the NB very well either.Like I said in another thread, people forget that Cloak has an incredibly high magicka cost, the same as Breath of Life. To use it back to back means speccing entirely into recovery, which means no burst. Magicka Detonation will become useless against single targets, so even less burst. The hardest hitting ability a magicka NB has, hits for about 5K if you spec entirely into spell damage, barely 4K if you have some magicka recovery in order to use Cloak.
I've never seen anyone more deluded about their own class. Your claims about magicka and stamina nb are very odd. You should at least try to be closer to the facts of you really want to continue your campaign of 'nb aren't that good.'
In another thread, Zsymon wrote thisSoon Cloak will be the most effective PvP mobility/mitigation skill in the game, and a lot of people are already rerolling a magicka Nightblade right now.1 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
So heavily nerf sorcs only defense and then make it so a CC with no immunity timer completely shuts down their movement advantage! Brilliant! I would say you should stick to talking about your own class but it seems you don't understand the NB very well either.Like I said in another thread, people forget that Cloak has an incredibly high magicka cost, the same as Breath of Life. To use it back to back means speccing entirely into recovery, which means no burst. Magicka Detonation will become useless against single targets, so even less burst. The hardest hitting ability a magicka NB has, hits for about 5K if you spec entirely into spell damage, barely 4K if you have some magicka recovery in order to use Cloak.
I've never seen anyone more deluded about their own class. Your claims about magicka and stamina nb are very odd. You should at least try to be closer to the facts of you really want to continue your campaign of 'nb aren't that good.'
In another thread, Zsymon wrote thisSoon Cloak will be the most effective PvP mobility/mitigation skill in the game, and a lot of people are already rerolling a magicka Nightblade right now.
Those that reroll to a new class to play what is/will be most FOTM are pathetic anyway.
If you are interested in another class / other spec to test stuff out, sure.
But rerolling class for having easier to kill/win whatever are just....
EU | PC0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.
I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.
In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.
A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.
Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.
You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.
You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.
Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.
so try using a stamina sorc for bolting if you arguing a stamina NB cant cloak as efficiently as a magica sorc can bolt away.
or in other words while you can cloak 4-5 times on you NB a sorc can bolt 3 times and is out of mana as you are.
so please stop comparing apples to oranges and conclude that bananas
are best...
ps: what the fu.. are you using anyway? your stamina consumption is 30-60% higher than that of my stamina NB...
That's about the lamest line of reasoning I ever heard. Are most Sorcs Stamina builds? LOL. Of course not. ATM magicka builds are far more prominent and so are more than likely the match up with my Stam NB.
I parsed some numbers. My apologies for my guestimated %'s. they were a little off but not much.
Sorc V14 w/ 20 CP in reduced cost for spells for roughly 6%
2k plus 3k thereafter for BE
NB V14 w/ 15 CP in Warlord for reduced costs of stamina spell for roughly 5%.
Rapids cost 6000 stamina 23 seconds (used only if you don't need stamina to fight. Better for me to use Double take.
Double Take 3100 Magicka every 4 seconds
Dark Cloak 3600 Magicka every 2.9 seconds
Dodgeroll 3100 stamina for initial 2 second 30% speed boost
Concealed weapon (no cost) buff while on bar
stealth - Continuous % drain on Stamina varies depending on stam regen. My Stam main looses about 5% every 7 seconds.
So in order for a magicka or stamina NB to maintain stealth speeds they use various combinations of these skills based on their resource pools. for instance I might use Rapid Maneuvers to start out with a dodgeroll then use double take while stealthed to maintain a good speed, then switch out of stealth and use Dark Cloak with concealed weapon to let my stam pool regen a bit. My magicka NB doesn't use rapid but only Dark cloak with Concealed and Double take only to switch up to stealth and double take to let magicka regen for a few seconds then switch back.
On the contrary- sorc = Press 1 finger, over and over, spend less and move faster. From my perspective it costs more for NB to move fast in stealth and takes more action bar real estate devoted to it with far more micro-management of resources.
It may very well be that an apt NB can stay in the hunt with a bolting sorc, but in order to do that they spend a ton and precludes the sorc microing resources with perhaps some buffed sprint thrown in while magicka regens. At least that would make sense to me but still BE spam gives huge initial burst in speed and distance from target.Edited by Vizier on 16 July 2015 23:330 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.
I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.
In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.
A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.
Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.
You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.
You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.
Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.
so try using a stamina sorc for bolting if you arguing a stamina NB cant cloak as efficiently as a magica sorc can bolt away.
or in other words while you can cloak 4-5 times on you NB a sorc can bolt 3 times and is out of mana as you are.
so please stop comparing apples to oranges and conclude that bananas are best...
ps: what the fu.. are you using anyway? your stamina consumption is 30-60% higher than that of my stamina NB...
That's about the lamest line of reasoning I ever heard. Are most Sorcs Stamina builds? LOL. Of course not. ATM magicka builds are far more prominent and so are more than likely the match up with my Stam NB.
I parsed some numbers. My apologies for my guestimated %'s. they were a little off but not much.
Sorc V14 w/ 20 CP in reduced cost for spells for roughly 6%
2k plus 3k thereafter for BE
NB V14 w/ 15 CP in Warlord for reduced costs of stamina spell for roughly 5%.
Rapids cost 6000 stamina 23 seconds (used only if you don't need stamina to fight. Better for me to use Double take.
Double Take 3100 Magicka every 4 seconds
Dark Cloak 3600 Magicka every 2.9 seconds
Dodgeroll 3100 stamina for initial 2 second 30% speed boost
Concealed weapon (no cost) buff while on bar
stealth - Continuous % drain on Stamina varies depending on stam regen. My Stam main looses about 5% every 7 seconds.
So in order for a magicka or stamina NB to maintain stealth speeds they use various combinations of these skills based on their resource pools. for instance I might use Rapid Maneuvers to start out with a dodgeroll then use double take while stealthed to maintain a good speed, then switch out of stealth and use Dark Cloak with concealed weapon to let my stam pool regen a bit. My magicka NB doesn't use rapid but only Dark cloak with Concealed and Double take only to switch up to stealth and double take to let magicka regen for a few seconds then switch back.
On the contrary- sorc = Press 1 finger, over and over, spend less and move faster. From my perspective it costs more for NB to move fast in stealth and takes more action bar real estate devoted to it with far more micro-management of resources.
It may very well be that an apt NB can stay in the hunt with a bolting sorc, but in order to do that they spend a ton and precludes the sorc microing resources with perhaps some buffed sprint thrown in while magicka regens. At least that would make sense to me but still BE spam gives huge initial burst in speed and distance from target.
Why are you bringing stealth into this, what has that to do with running fast?
You can add sprint, not cloak and stealth. Besides that, 3100 stamina for a dodgeroll sounds like way too much, i have no exact numbers now, but i could swear you get it a lot cheaper easily.
This is just about sprinting fast, you can sprint faster and at a cheaper cost than a sorc spamming bolt escape. Also, please test your actual bolt escape cost. Just use it and the cost in the tooltip will increase accordingly. The extra cost is not effected by percentual magicka cost reduction, thus it will cost a lot more than you might think. Every 1.3 seconds.Edited by ToRelax on 17 July 2015 04:19DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.
And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing but you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while staying a canon the same time.
Tired and untrue argument is tired and untrue.
Entertaining, explain how someone that cannot be found is making damage the same time?
He decided to leave and to survive, nothing wrong with that.
But a Shield packed Sorc is still an ACTIVE Canon, no glass, and on top of it high mobility. Where is the trade of? It doesn't exist.
Superman Hybrid expectations like yours are a ridiculous habit in ESO.
Ever heard of specializations for being great at a specific role while a hybrid will lose performance?
ZOS is not stupid and they will go a similar way on a long run anyway, to get this insanity under control.
You do know stacking shields have to be constantly reapplied based on the situation and each cast costs magicka, yes? You know casting BE is probably the least efficient core class mechanic in the game? You know to do damage costs a sorc magicka, or ultimate, too?
If you believe in the "super sorc build" I don't really know what to say to you. Maybe you're just always, only coming up against the exceptionally well set up (skills, gear, CPs) sorcs who know how to play exceptionally, but I find that hard to be true. If you're playing against average sorcs (like me) you'll win at least half the time if not more, as I simply can't do that "super sorc" thing because I would run out of magicka.
The times sorcs do kinda annoy me is when the true cannon builds attack from stealth or an angle I can't see (things any class can do) and blow me up in a couple seconds. Doesn't happen to me very often, but that kind of play is basically the same as sniper NBs. Is that what's happening to you a lot? If you're mainly complaining about 1v1s-- the game isn't built around 1v1-- and if you constantly lose duels to sorcs you have to figure out what you're doing wrong and fix it (isn't that kind of the point of dueling).
Also, you seem to be confused about sorcs and "hybrids." The vast majority of sorcs are not hybrids. In fact the sorc class is the least viable to be a hybrid class.. -_-
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.Edited by Domander on 18 July 2015 04:310 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.
Well, you can counter it with a dodge roll. It would have been a better solution I think, but I'll take this one.
And to comment on the thread, those abilities are different, this shouldn't be a thread.0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Vizier
Base cost Bolt Escape 3351 magicka for the first BE, the following 50% more so 5026 magicka.
Base cost Dark Cloak 3591 magicka.
BE is 15m teleport which doesnt reduce or mitigate any damage other than going beyond the range of your opponent or out of his line of sight. This can be countered by long range abilities, gap closers or speed buffs.
Dark Cloak give 2.9 second invis which prevents other players from hitting you, it also removes DoTs. This can be countered with detection pots, AoE, flare and mage light.
The difference is that stamina NBs are popular, stamina sorcs not so much. Thats why cloak usually isnt spammed as many times in succession as BE, stamina NBs simply dont have the magicka for it. Please dont compare the use of magicka based skills on stamina builds with magicka based skills on magicka builds.
Magicka NBs can keep Cloak up all the time if they have decent magicka regen.Edited by Septimus_Magna on 18 July 2015 09:07PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.
Well, you can counter it with a dodge roll. It would have been a better solution I think, but I'll take this one.
And to comment on the thread, those abilities are different, this shouldn't be a thread.
On one hand he says bolt escape and cloak are different so this shouldn't be a thread and on the other hand he posts his own thread saying bolt escape shouldn't work while rooted because charges and dragon leap don't. You can't make this stuff up.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.
I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.
In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.
A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.
Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.
You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.
You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.
Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.
so try using a stamina sorc for bolting if you arguing a stamina NB cant cloak as efficiently as a magica sorc can bolt away.
or in other words while you can cloak 4-5 times on you NB a sorc can bolt 3 times and is out of mana as you are.
so please stop comparing apples to oranges and conclude that bananas are best...
ps: what the fu.. are you using anyway? your stamina consumption is 30-60% higher than that of my stamina NB...
That's about the lamest line of reasoning I ever heard. Are most Sorcs Stamina builds? LOL. Of course not. ATM magicka builds are far more prominent and so are more than likely the match up with my Stam NB.
I parsed some numbers. My apologies for my guestimated %'s. they were a little off but not much.
Sorc V14 w/ 20 CP in reduced cost for spells for roughly 6%
2k plus 3k thereafter for BE
NB V14 w/ 15 CP in Warlord for reduced costs of stamina spell for roughly 5%.
Rapids cost 6000 stamina 23 seconds (used only if you don't need stamina to fight. Better for me to use Double take.
Double Take 3100 Magicka every 4 seconds
Dark Cloak 3600 Magicka every 2.9 seconds
Dodgeroll 3100 stamina for initial 2 second 30% speed boost
Concealed weapon (no cost) buff while on bar
stealth - Continuous % drain on Stamina varies depending on stam regen. My Stam main looses about 5% every 7 seconds.
So in order for a magicka or stamina NB to maintain stealth speeds they use various combinations of these skills based on their resource pools. for instance I might use Rapid Maneuvers to start out with a dodgeroll then use double take while stealthed to maintain a good speed, then switch out of stealth and use Dark Cloak with concealed weapon to let my stam pool regen a bit. My magicka NB doesn't use rapid but only Dark cloak with Concealed and Double take only to switch up to stealth and double take to let magicka regen for a few seconds then switch back.
On the contrary- sorc = Press 1 finger, over and over, spend less and move faster. From my perspective it costs more for NB to move fast in stealth and takes more action bar real estate devoted to it with far more micro-management of resources.
It may very well be that an apt NB can stay in the hunt with a bolting sorc, but in order to do that they spend a ton and precludes the sorc microing resources with perhaps some buffed sprint thrown in while magicka regens. At least that would make sense to me but still BE spam gives huge initial burst in speed and distance from target.
Why are you bringing stealth into this, what has that to do with running fast?
You can add sprint, not cloak and stealth. Besides that, 3100 stamina for a dodgeroll sounds like way too much, i have no exact numbers now, but i could swear you get it a lot cheaper easily.
This is just about sprinting fast, you can sprint faster and at a cheaper cost than a sorc spamming bolt escape. Also, please test your actual bolt escape cost. Just use it and the cost in the tooltip will increase accordingly. The extra cost is not effected by percentual magicka cost reduction, thus it will cost a lot more than you might think. Every 1.3 seconds.
I'm bringing stealth into it because NB have increased speed in stealth. And if they are a vampire (available to everyone) there is no movement penalty while in stealth. So with concealed weapon on their bar they get a 20% speed bonus in stealth on top of that. 3100 is what it costs me to dodgeroll. (I tested it just before I posted) I spoke with a V14 Sorc in one of my guilds and it cost him 2k to bolt and 3k for additional bolts.
This gets to the crux of the problem when discussing this crap and people start wagging their fingers trying to say Bull Crap about NB not needing to spend resources for speed. AND that you want to pipe up on this being about sprinting shows you have no flipping idea what your talking about when it comes to what it takes for NB to move fast in stealth and still be able to fight. Some folks might sprint and have armor that helps with sprinting costs and all their CP into reduced sprinting costs but from my perspective that would be a waste. Sprinting is the surest way to suck the stam right out of 90% of the NB out there plus they are not invisible while sprinting which kind of defeats the purpose.
I can keep up with a bolting Sorc but it's not speed for speed. Sorc gets out the gate much faster spamming BE. Those that can just spam the hell out of it are a problem but those that hit a few times, then a few more .well I'll be on their heals in a few second. That said the above resources apply, which of course are different for everyone depending on their build out.
It is apparent folks just don't have a clue about Cloak. Crying about pretty much the most counterable ability of any class with as high a cost as BE, has to be used in conjunction with other spells and abilities to be effective and you're whining you have an additional cost tacked onto your one finger press, get out of anything ability. Lawls.
They are not the same. Not even close and shouldn't be treated in any way shape or form as BE with regard to cost penalties.0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »@Vizier
Base cost Bolt Escape 3351 magicka for the first BE, the following 50% more so 5026 magicka.
Base cost Dark Cloak 3591 magicka.
BE is 15m teleport which doesnt reduce or mitigate any damage other than going beyond the range of your opponent or out of his line of sight. This can be countered by long range abilities, gap closers or speed buffs.
Dark Cloak give 2.9 second invis which prevents other players from hitting you, it also removes DoTs. This can be countered with detection pots, AoE, flare and mage light.
The difference is that stamina NBs are popular, stamina sorcs not so much. Thats why cloak usually isnt spammed as many times in succession as BE, stamina NBs simply dont have the magicka for it. Please dont compare the use of magicka based skills on stamina builds with magicka based skills on magicka builds.
Magicka NBs can keep Cloak up all the time if they have decent magicka regen.
Of course I can compare it. And a magicka sorc with high regen can spam cloak all they need to. I see it all the time and those dudes you don't catch. Not very often anyway, especially with that light sucking up anything you might shoot at them. (you forget about that part?) The assertion was that BE takes more resources than it takes for a NB to maintain a high rate of speed. There are two types of NB so I try to speak of both when showing how wrong that assertion was...shrug.
Look. I have a Stam NB and a Magicka NB. And my Magicka NB can keep cloak up for a long time. If I'm pushing it, however, to keep up with a bolting sorc, there's other skills involved, like double take or Rapid Maneuvers still. Just because I'm a magicka NB and can spam cloak doesn't give me all the speed I need to stay in the hunt of a bolting sorc. Anyone saying so is full of crap or lying through their teeth.
My stamina NB just goes into stealth/crouch and then spams double take but might Rapid Maneuver depending on resources or if locked out of stealth. My magicka NB spams cloak and double take. In which case my magicka depletes pretty quick but regens fast as soon as switch to crouch/stealth and just use double take. That NB doesn't use a bow so DR is not a factor, but of course I don't get that extra boost unless I actually sprint.
Still the whole premise of cloak somehow being OP with all it's counters and it's cost and that it should be giving the same treatment as BE is utterly ridiculous, because as shown over and over it's just not the same spell with the same usage or utility as BE. There's a reason the community demanded BE be somehow toned down and that was it's utility. The only thing we heard regarding cloak was how broken it was as a skill. The impetus of the whole argument seems to be one should be nerfed merely because BE was. It's just not a good enough reason. Now some soured Sorcs want to have Cloak nerfed just as it's finally getting the fixes it was supposed to have. LoLs I say. Lols.Edited by Vizier on 19 July 2015 10:340 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.
Well, you can counter it with a dodge roll. It would have been a better solution I think, but I'll take this one.
And to comment on the thread, those abilities are different, this shouldn't be a thread.
On one hand he says bolt escape and cloak are different so this shouldn't be a thread and on the other hand he posts his own thread saying bolt escape shouldn't work while rooted because charges and dragon leap don't. You can't make this stuff up.
You mean comparing gap closers to a gap maker? lol
This is a thread comparing going invisible with creating distance. They're not even close to the same type of mechanic and cloak has a lot of counters. All aoe's, radiant, piercing mark.
You can say that the counter to bolt escape is gap closers, but it doesn't stop a bolt does it? The server also doesn't always let the gap closer work.1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found. I was trolling blue all night last night doing this, I would even cloak in the middle of twenty people, fear them attack one, cloak and I would be gone. So not only is cloak on par with bolt escape in regards to disengaging in a fight, I can linger around and range attack my enemy and Cloak again. If Bolt Escape gets nerfed so should cloak. I don't want to see any ability get nerfed! Matter of fact I think temps need a buff to be on par. But if there is a nerf it needs to be to both Both Escape and Cloak If bolt escape is nerfed as suggested, please just getting rid of it or change it to a gap closer, seeing how stamina sorc suck and Magicka sorc do not have a gap closer. Again, bot escape and Cloak should suffer the same fate. I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!
Spends the entire post explaining why he/she wants a skill nerfed. Then ends with...
I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!
0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.
Well, you can counter it with a dodge roll. It would have been a better solution I think, but I'll take this one.
And to comment on the thread, those abilities are different, this shouldn't be a thread.
On one hand he says bolt escape and cloak are different so this shouldn't be a thread and on the other hand he posts his own thread saying bolt escape shouldn't work while rooted because charges and dragon leap don't. You can't make this stuff up.
You mean comparing gap closers to a gap maker? lol
This is a thread comparing going invisible with creating distance. They're not even close to the same type of mechanic and cloak has a lot of counters. All aoe's, radiant, piercing mark.
You can say that the counter to bolt escape is gap closers, but it doesn't stop a bolt does it? The server also doesn't always let the gap closer work.
Gap closers stop Bolt Escape just as well as any AoE hitting an invisible NB stops the NB from going invisible. You said yourself that they're not the same mechanic, yet you make stupid comparisons like this one yourself. You can't expect the counters for different mechanics to work the same way.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.
Well, you can counter it with a dodge roll. It would have been a better solution I think, but I'll take this one.
And to comment on the thread, those abilities are different, this shouldn't be a thread.
On one hand he says bolt escape and cloak are different so this shouldn't be a thread and on the other hand he posts his own thread saying bolt escape shouldn't work while rooted because charges and dragon leap don't. You can't make this stuff up.
You mean comparing gap closers to a gap maker? lol
This is a thread comparing going invisible with creating distance. They're not even close to the same type of mechanic and cloak has a lot of counters. All aoe's, radiant, piercing mark.
You can say that the counter to bolt escape is gap closers, but it doesn't stop a bolt does it? The server also doesn't always let the gap closer work.
Gap closers stop Bolt Escape just as well as any AoE hitting an invisible NB stops the NB from going invisible. You said yourself that they're not the same mechanic, yet you make stupid comparisons like this one yourself. You can't expect the counters for different mechanics to work the same way.
Ever seen a nightblade try to cloak on top of caltrops? are you trying to tell me that the aoe didn't prevent it?
I'm not the one making stupid comparisons.
0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.
Well, you can counter it with a dodge roll. It would have been a better solution I think, but I'll take this one.
And to comment on the thread, those abilities are different, this shouldn't be a thread.
On one hand he says bolt escape and cloak are different so this shouldn't be a thread and on the other hand he posts his own thread saying bolt escape shouldn't work while rooted because charges and dragon leap don't. You can't make this stuff up.
You mean comparing gap closers to a gap maker? lol
This is a thread comparing going invisible with creating distance. They're not even close to the same type of mechanic and cloak has a lot of counters. All aoe's, radiant, piercing mark.
You can say that the counter to bolt escape is gap closers, but it doesn't stop a bolt does it? The server also doesn't always let the gap closer work.
Gap closers stop Bolt Escape just as well as any AoE hitting an invisible NB stops the NB from going invisible. You said yourself that they're not the same mechanic, yet you make stupid comparisons like this one yourself. You can't expect the counters for different mechanics to work the same way.
Ever seen a nightblade try to cloak on top of caltrops? are you trying to tell me that the aoe didn't prevent it?
I'm not the one making stupid comparisons.
do a roll or port to your shadow to get out of it - and you are fine for cloak spamming.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.
Well, you can counter it with a dodge roll. It would have been a better solution I think, but I'll take this one.
And to comment on the thread, those abilities are different, this shouldn't be a thread.
On one hand he says bolt escape and cloak are different so this shouldn't be a thread and on the other hand he posts his own thread saying bolt escape shouldn't work while rooted because charges and dragon leap don't. You can't make this stuff up.
You mean comparing gap closers to a gap maker? lol
This is a thread comparing going invisible with creating distance. They're not even close to the same type of mechanic and cloak has a lot of counters. All aoe's, radiant, piercing mark.
You can say that the counter to bolt escape is gap closers, but it doesn't stop a bolt does it? The server also doesn't always let the gap closer work.
Gap closers stop Bolt Escape just as well as any AoE hitting an invisible NB stops the NB from going invisible. You said yourself that they're not the same mechanic, yet you make stupid comparisons like this one yourself. You can't expect the counters for different mechanics to work the same way.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Gap closer has to target the sorc. Sorc doesn't target anything to bolt. Any AOE nullifies cloak. We'll start with STREAK, morphed bolt escape! Then, Talons, Calthrops, steel tornado, Volley, Scattershot, Ash cloud, Impulse, Dark Path, etc, etc. Any single target attack with a persistent negative effect nullifies cloak, such as curse, any root, slow, etc. Then there are spells and potions specifically designed to counter cloak such as Magelight and flare along with Detection Potions. And this isn't even an exhaustive list.
So BE counter is a gap closer like ambush or critical rush? Lots of reasons these two won't work like terrain and having the sorc in sight within range etc. AND these gap closers DO NOT stop BE. BE still works. The spell still carries you from here to there. Not to mention Streak usually stuns folks long enough for BE to be hit a couple times carrying the sorc out of range. But hey...
Still seeing a little disparity here...just a wee bit. good grief, just stop. You can't argue this without looking like... facepalm.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.
Well, you can counter it with a dodge roll. It would have been a better solution I think, but I'll take this one.
And to comment on the thread, those abilities are different, this shouldn't be a thread.
On one hand he says bolt escape and cloak are different so this shouldn't be a thread and on the other hand he posts his own thread saying bolt escape shouldn't work while rooted because charges and dragon leap don't. You can't make this stuff up.
You mean comparing gap closers to a gap maker? lol
This is a thread comparing going invisible with creating distance. They're not even close to the same type of mechanic and cloak has a lot of counters. All aoe's, radiant, piercing mark.
You can say that the counter to bolt escape is gap closers, but it doesn't stop a bolt does it? The server also doesn't always let the gap closer work.
Gap closers stop Bolt Escape just as well as any AoE hitting an invisible NB stops the NB from going invisible. You said yourself that they're not the same mechanic, yet you make stupid comparisons like this one yourself. You can't expect the counters for different mechanics to work the same way.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Gap closer has to target the sorc. Sorc doesn't target anything to bolt. Any AOE nullifies cloak. We'll start with STREAK, morphed bolt escape! Then, Talons, Calthrops, steel tornado, Volley, Scattershot, Ash cloud, Impulse, Dark Path, etc, etc. Any single target attack with a persistent negative effect nullifies cloak, such as curse, any root, slow, etc. Then there are spells and potions specifically designed to counter cloak such as Magelight and flare along with Detection Potions. And this isn't even an exhaustive list.
So BE counter is a gap closer like ambush or critical rush? Lots of reasons these two won't work like terrain and having the sorc in sight within range etc. AND these gap closers DO NOT stop BE. BE still works. The spell still carries you from here to there. Not to mention Streak usually stuns folks long enough for BE to be hit a couple times carrying the sorc out of range. But hey...
Still seeing a little disparity here...just a wee bit. good grief, just stop. You can't argue this without looking like... facepalm.
Indeed. /facepalm
More seriously, do you really think it's easier to use Bolt Escape once to escape and not get charged than it is to use Cloak once and not get deteccted? Do you think after that it's getting faster easier for the Sorc or the NB?
Do you think either of them could use one of these skills effectively without other skills complementing it?
I think the answer in all 3 cases is "no". However, it seems arguing with you is pretty pointless. You bring up things like Revealing Flare and try to argue that Ambush doesn't work well to counter Bolt Escape...Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.
That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.
The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.
Maybe more sorcs should have supported this thread instead of belittling.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1
oh well.
OH yeah an ability that doesn't give CC immunity that can completely ruin our escape... sounds great! /s
People will not be happy until all magicka Sorcs are forced to go stamina and play a PVP build using 1 or 2 class skills.
Well, you can counter it with a dodge roll. It would have been a better solution I think, but I'll take this one.
And to comment on the thread, those abilities are different, this shouldn't be a thread.
On one hand he says bolt escape and cloak are different so this shouldn't be a thread and on the other hand he posts his own thread saying bolt escape shouldn't work while rooted because charges and dragon leap don't. You can't make this stuff up.
You mean comparing gap closers to a gap maker? lol
This is a thread comparing going invisible with creating distance. They're not even close to the same type of mechanic and cloak has a lot of counters. All aoe's, radiant, piercing mark.
You can say that the counter to bolt escape is gap closers, but it doesn't stop a bolt does it? The server also doesn't always let the gap closer work.
Gap closers stop Bolt Escape just as well as any AoE hitting an invisible NB stops the NB from going invisible. You said yourself that they're not the same mechanic, yet you make stupid comparisons like this one yourself. You can't expect the counters for different mechanics to work the same way.
Ever seen a nightblade try to cloak on top of caltrops? are you trying to tell me that the aoe didn't prevent it?
I'm not the one making stupid comparisons.
Ever Bolt Escaped against stairs or walls? Equally silly in most situations while both have their uses sometimes because of secondary skill effects.Edited by ToRelax on 19 July 2015 11:43DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Morridune✭✭even ignoring the next update Cloak has no damage it has no inbuilt CC 1 aoe will kill cloak, 1 single target attack currently if cast same time as cloak will kill it there is no movement buff and there is a pot that lets you and all you're friends in party ignore it.
As for bolt, there is no pot that lets you catch a sorc who's enough magika to get half way across the map it dose do damage it has CC and depending on morph can mitigate damage you take or put another debuff on ppl you hit with it.
Other than both these skill been signature to their their class they both work very differently saying they should be treated the same if daft to say the least0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭even ignoring the next update Cloak has no damage it has no inbuilt CC 1 aoe will kill cloak, 1 single target attack currently if cast same time as cloak will kill it there is no movement buff and there is a pot that lets you and all you're friends in party ignore it.
As for bolt, there is no pot that lets you catch a sorc who's enough magika to get half way across the map it dose do damage it has CC and depending on morph can mitigate damage you take or put another debuff on ppl you hit with it.
Other than both these skill been signature to their their class they both work very differently saying they should be treated the same if daft to say the least
They're both escapes. You really can't see the similarities? NB should be begging for a cloak nerf now, because once IC drops and NB are swarming it like a plague, the cries for a nerf will be deafening and probably end up in an over nerf.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Stubbornly trying to compare two completely different skills does not make them any more alike than they were before.even ignoring the next update Cloak has no damage it has no inbuilt CC 1 aoe will kill cloak, 1 single target attack currently if cast same time as cloak will kill it there is no movement buff and there is a pot that lets you and all you're friends in party ignore it.
As for bolt, there is no pot that lets you catch a sorc who's enough magika to get half way across the map it dose do damage it has CC and depending on morph can mitigate damage you take or put another debuff on ppl you hit with it.
Other than both these skill been signature to their their class they both work very differently saying they should be treated the same if daft to say the least
They're both escapes. You really can't see the similarities? NB should be begging for a cloak nerf now, because once IC drops and NB are swarming it like a plague, the cries for a nerf will be deafening and probably end up in an over nerf.
1 -
wayfarerb14_ESO✭✭✭Do you know what I do when I miss being able to use cloak while playing my sorc? I pop rapids, then use an invis potion. There. Problem solved.
Sometimes I don't even use rapids. Sometimes I bolt, then use the invis potion.
Please stop asking for nerfs.0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »@Vizier
Base cost Bolt Escape 3351 magicka for the first BE, the following 50% more so 5026 magicka.
Base cost Dark Cloak 3591 magicka.
BE is 15m teleport which doesnt reduce or mitigate any damage other than going beyond the range of your opponent or out of his line of sight. This can be countered by long range abilities, gap closers or speed buffs.
Dark Cloak give 2.9 second invis which prevents other players from hitting you, it also removes DoTs. This can be countered with detection pots, AoE, flare and mage light.
The difference is that stamina NBs are popular, stamina sorcs not so much. Thats why cloak usually isnt spammed as many times in succession as BE, stamina NBs simply dont have the magicka for it. Please dont compare the use of magicka based skills on stamina builds with magicka based skills on magicka builds.
Magicka NBs can keep Cloak up all the time if they have decent magicka regen.
Of course I can compare it. And a magicka sorc with high regen can spam cloak all they need to. I see it all the time and those dudes you don't catch. Not very often anyway, especially with that light sucking up anything you might shoot at them. (you forget about that part?) The assertion was that BE takes more resources than it takes for a NB to maintain a high rate of speed. There are two types of NB so I try to speak of both when showing how wrong that assertion was...shrug.
Look. I have a Stam NB and a Magicka NB. And my Magicka NB can keep cloak up for a long time. If I'm pushing it, however, to keep up with a bolting sorc, there's other skills involved, like double take or Rapid Maneuvers still. Just because I'm a magicka NB and can spam cloak doesn't give me all the speed I need to stay in the hunt of a bolting sorc. Anyone saying so is full of crap or lying through their teeth.
My stamina NB just goes into stealth/crouch and then spams double take but might Rapid Maneuver depending on resources or if locked out of stealth. My magicka NB spams cloak and double take. In which case my magicka depletes pretty quick but regens fast as soon as switch to crouch/stealth and just use double take. That NB doesn't use a bow so DR is not a factor, but of course I don't get that extra boost unless I actually sprint.
Still the whole premise of cloak somehow being OP with all it's counters and it's cost and that it should be giving the same treatment as BE is utterly ridiculous, because as shown over and over it's just not the same spell with the same usage or utility as BE. There's a reason the community demanded BE be somehow toned down and that was it's utility. The only thing we heard regarding cloak was how broken it was as a skill. The impetus of the whole argument seems to be one should be nerfed merely because BE was. It's just not a good enough reason. Now some soured Sorcs want to have Cloak nerfed just as it's finally getting the fixes it was supposed to have. LoLs I say. Lols.
Im not saying Cloak and Double Take/Rapid Maneuver is the perfect BEing sorc hunting setup but both have advantages and disadvantages. The fact the Cloak makes you invisible which makes you mitigate 100% damage until someone finds you can be a huge advantage if used properly. The benefit of Cloak is that it can be used unlimited number of times in succession if you have high enough regen. This wont be possible for BE after update 7 because the cost will keep increasing.
For stamina NBs its only logical they cant spam a magicka based skill over and over, I cant dodge roll over and over with my magicka sorc and I dont expect him to. And I havent seen stamina sorcs BE multiple times either so its equal on that front. If you want to compare apples, compare them to other apples, not to oranges.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.
I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.
In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.
A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.
Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.
You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.
You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.
Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.
Do you even hear yourself? Cloak puts you on the offensive? Only if you have a prayer at killing the Shield stacking sorc. Did you forget that sorcs have other skills besides BE? BE is not stopped by anything. Sorc doesn't have to break CC even to use it. They get positional advantage much more easily and have stackable shields. Between BE and shield stack with incredible ranged dps and cc...trust me. The NB casting cloak isn't thinking about attacking, but rather how the **** do I get out of here alive.
And that is exactly what I want that sorc to think im doing.
Trying to get away, because the moment i pop that cloak the next thing im doing is surprise attacking that sorc, dropping his shield, soul harvesting/killer blading to finish him
Yall talk about the shield stack, but I play Sorc and NB, and ill tell you right now, killing a sorc is EASY. Even if that turn around smack in the face doesnt kill him outright (it usually does), I just won the fight because the sorc will invariably go full defensive and run like hell, during which time I shall find a rock or tree, pop cloak and meander off, because I dont chase sorcs.
Whereas killing a NB as a sorc is just "dodge dodge dodge dodge dodge dodge"Edited by Rylana on 20 July 2015 12:50@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is becoming redundant, cloak and bolt escape are not the same mechanically, visually, or any of the sort.
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »This thread is becoming redundant, cloak and bolt escape are not the same mechanically, visually, or any of the sort.
Besides the fact that they both can be used as escapes, effecitvely removing yourself from unwinnable situations. Of course they aren't the same spell, but arguing that cloak is not an escape move is completely illogical. Yes this thread is getting redundant with NB saying Cloak and Bolt Escape shouldn't be compared, when in reality they are very similar.
The whining about Bolt Escape and the reason it is getting nerfed in 1.7 is because of Sorc who cast it 10+ times to disengage from fights. No one is complaing because a Streak Sorc CC's them or because a Ball of Lightning Sorc mitigates ranged magical projectiles. The rage at Bolt Escape is definitely because of spam to escape.
Can you use Cloak to escape? Be honest. Now consider Cloak without Detect Pots. Will you escape every single time? Unless a Streaking Sorc predicts your exact escape route, you ARE getting away with Cloak and any basic understanding of speed buffs. All these NB bringing up Cloak counters like RADIANT MAGELIGHT and DUH CALTROPS are completely missing the point that they counter the offensive potential of Cloak and not the escape potential and escape potential is the exact reason why Bolt Escape is getting nerfed in 1.7.Edited by Erock25 on 20 July 2015 13:12You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
DEATHquidox✭✭✭chevalierknight wrote: »You're a bad player no cloak is not on par use aoe mage light potion to stop cloak blot cant be stoped with out closing the gap or speed so. You're bad
Say what you wish about me but look at the OP videos of this thread. I'm sure you know who he is.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190098/bolt-escape-dodge-blocking-shields-nerf#latest
Watch and see how he manipulates his enemies using his NB versus how he does with his Sorc. There is a world of difference. So if your only defense is pointing a finger at me, you have three pointing back at you.
Neither BOL or Cloak have the ability to kill another play. These abilities are abused by bad players, so good players ha e to pay the price?? My point is these may very different abilities but they both have the ability to be abused equally and that they need to be treated the same.
I get it... As a NB sorc are the biggest pain, but on the flip side as a sorc NB are very frustrating as well. This is a knee jerk reaction nerf from the devs and many NB are cheering as if they just won a prize when in reality they show how the devs decisions about powers can be manipulated by the community complaints.
How about this... you make a video of how OP sorc is and I'll make a video of how OP NB are and we can let our play speak for themselves.
Cheers!
I can agree, every class needs something that makes them different tho,
nb have cloak, sorc has streak, temp has amazing heals, dk has spamable self heals and alot of tanking avilities to do damage and stay alive. So whats the problem? a sorc spams streak and gets away, okay so hes gotta run out of magicka so get on ur a horse and pop rapids and go kill him i see the biggest issue with nb because they can hit cloak and be gone boom and no one can find them. I feel like 33% should stack for sorcs not 50% and if they do the stacking every class should get a nerf like dk cant spam dragons blood or it cost 33% more and stacks.
Exactly its *** people will complain till every last ability cost 5000000 magicka to use. And thats what will kill this game.
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Eejit1331✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found. I was trolling blue all night last night doing this, I would even cloak in the middle of twenty people, fear them attack one, cloak and I would be gone. So not only is cloak on par with bolt escape in regards to disengaging in a fight, I can linger around and range attack my enemy and Cloak again. If Bolt Escape gets nerfed so should cloak. I don't want to see any ability get nerfed! Matter of fact I think temps need a buff to be on par. But if there is a nerf it needs to be to both Both Escape and Cloak If bolt escape is nerfed as suggested, please just getting rid of it or change it to a gap closer, seeing how stamina sorc suck and Magicka sorc do not have a gap closer. Again, bot escape and Cloak should suffer the same fate. I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!
Spends the entire post explaining why he/she wants a skill nerfed. Then ends with...
I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!
Correction. .. I explained they should have the same treatment. Both powers are equally effective in exiting a fight. The spread is not so large that BE deserves to be nerfed so hard that it no longer serves it's original purpose. Most of the complaints came from NB.0
