Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment

Master_Kas

Another forum-sorc on a nerf NB crusade, so they can be free kills

Even if they nerf cloak , you will still need to L2P, cloak is very easy to counter if you have more than 2 braincells.

Bromburak

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing , no matter what class. But you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while being an active canon the same time.

k2blader

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing but you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while staying a canon the same time.

Tired and untrue argument is tired and untrue.

Bromburak

k2blader wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing but you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while staying a canon the same time.

Tired and untrue argument is tired and untrue.

Entertaining, explain how someone that cannot be found is making damage the same time?
He decided to leave and to survive, nothing wrong with that.

But a Shield packed Sorc is still an ACTIVE Canon, no glass, and on top of it high mobility. Where is the trade of? It doesn't exist.

Superman Hybrid expectations like yours are a ridiculous habit in ESO.

Ever heard of specializations for being great at a specific role while a hybrid will lose performance?
ZOS is not stupid and they will go a similar way on a long run anyway, to get this insanity under control.

ToRelax

Bromburak wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing but you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while staying a canon the same time.

Tired and untrue argument is tired and untrue.

Entertaining, explain how someone that cannot be found is making damage the same time?
He decided to leave and to survive, nothing wrong with that.

But a Shield packed Sorc is still an ACTIVE Canon, no glass, and on top of it high mobility. Where is the trade of? It doesn't exist.

Superman Hybrid expectations like yours are a ridiculous habit in ESO.

Ever heard of specializations for being great at a specific role while a hybrid will lose performance?
ZOS is not stupid and they will go a similar way on a long run anyway, to get this insanity under control.

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Vizier

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

ToRelax wrote: »

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Do you even hear yourself? Cloak puts you on the offensive? Only if you have a prayer at killing the Shield stacking sorc. Did you forget that sorcs have other skills besides BE? BE is not stopped by anything. Sorc doesn't have to break CC even to use it. They get positional advantage much more easily and have stackable shields. Between BE and shield stack with incredible ranged dps and cc...trust me. The NB casting cloak isn't thinking about attacking, but rather how the **** do I get out of here alive.

Tankqull

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

so try using a stamina sorc for bolting if you arguing a stamina NB cant cloak as efficiently as a magica sorc can bolt away.
or in other words while you can cloak 4-5 times on you NB a sorc can bolt 3 times and is out of mana as you are.
so please stop comparing apples to oranges and conclude that bananas are best...


ps: what the fu.. are you using anyway? your stamina consumption is 30-60% higher than that of my stamina NB...

Septimus_Magna

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

ToRelax wrote: »

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Do you even hear yourself? Cloak puts you on the offensive? Only if you have a prayer at killing the Shield stacking sorc. Did you forget that sorcs have other skills besides BE? BE is not stopped by anything. Sorc doesn't have to break CC even to use it. They get positional advantage much more easily and have stackable shields. Between BE and shield stack with incredible ranged dps and cc...trust me. The NB casting cloak isn't thinking about attacking, but rather how the **** do I get out of here alive.

Try to BE while you are IN COMBAT, I doubt you get to 10 BEs with VR2 sorc with green gear. With my VR14 sorc with top tier gear I can BE about 13 times with a full 33k magicka pool while Im in combat, if I want to escape a fight I can usually BE around 6-7 times before running out of magicka.

People claiming that BE is somehow free is complete BS, with light armor and 3x magicka cost reduction enchants it still costs around 3k magicka after the first BE. Some 2k+ magicka regen builds might be able to BE 20 times but they wont have any spell damage. Their damage (especially with the current nirn) is laughable to say the least.

Nevertheless, Cloak certainly doesnt need a nerf and BE shouldnt be made useless because without it sorcs will be free AP bags. You can stack your shields all you want but that wont keep you alive long if you dont have a way to create distance between the you and the attackers.

Tankqull

Tankqull wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

so try using a stamina sorc for bolting if you arguing a stamina NB cant cloak as efficiently as a magica sorc can bolt away.
or in other words while you can cloak 4-5 times on you NB a sorc can bolt 3 times and is out of mana as you are.
so please stop comparing apples to oranges and conclude that bananas are best...

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

ToRelax wrote: »

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Do you even hear yourself? Cloak puts you on the offensive? Only if you have a prayer at killing the Shield stacking sorc. Did you forget that sorcs have other skills besides BE? BE is not stopped by anything. Sorc doesn't have to break CC even to use it. They get positional advantage much more easily and have stackable shields. Between BE and shield stack with incredible ranged dps and cc...trust me. The NB casting cloak isn't thinking about attacking, but rather how the **** do I get out of here alive.

Try to BE while you are IN COMBAT, I doubt you get to 10 BEs with VR2 sorc with green gear. With my VR14 sorc with top tier gear I can BE about 13 times with a full 33k magicka pool while Im in combat, if I want to escape a fight I can usually BE around 6-7 times before running out of magicka.

People claiming that BE is somehow free is complete BS, with light armor and 3x magicka cost reduction enchants it still costs around 3k magicka after the first BE. Some 2k+ magicka regen builds might be able to BE 20 times but they wont have any spell damage. Their damage (especially with the current nirn) is laughable to say the least.

Nevertheless, Cloak certainly doesnt need a nerf and BE shouldnt be made useless because without it sorcs will be free AP bags. You can stack your shields all you want but that wont keep you alive long if you dont have a way to create distance between the you and the attackers.

thats not true either my sorc is at 2.2k spell dmg buffed (with staff you can get more for sure but only at cost of both reg AND base stats) while having 2k magica reg but i do agree that i do sacrifice base stats by using a stam/mana reg drink instead of triple food.

[edit spell dmg value corrected]

Erock25

Tankqull wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

so try using a stamina sorc for bolting if you arguing a stamina NB cant cloak as efficiently as a magica sorc can bolt away.
or in other words while you can cloak 4-5 times on you NB a sorc can bolt 3 times and is out of mana as you are.
so please stop comparing apples to oranges and conclude that bananas are best...

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

ToRelax wrote: »

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Do you even hear yourself? Cloak puts you on the offensive? Only if you have a prayer at killing the Shield stacking sorc. Did you forget that sorcs have other skills besides BE? BE is not stopped by anything. Sorc doesn't have to break CC even to use it. They get positional advantage much more easily and have stackable shields. Between BE and shield stack with incredible ranged dps and cc...trust me. The NB casting cloak isn't thinking about attacking, but rather how the **** do I get out of here alive.

Try to BE while you are IN COMBAT, I doubt you get to 10 BEs with VR2 sorc with green gear. With my VR14 sorc with top tier gear I can BE about 13 times with a full 33k magicka pool while Im in combat, if I want to escape a fight I can usually BE around 6-7 times before running out of magicka.

People claiming that BE is somehow free is complete BS, with light armor and 3x magicka cost reduction enchants it still costs around 3k magicka after the first BE. Some 2k+ magicka regen builds might be able to BE 20 times but they wont have any spell damage. Their damage (especially with the current nirn) is laughable to say the least.

Nevertheless, Cloak certainly doesnt need a nerf and BE shouldnt be made useless because without it sorcs will be free AP bags. You can stack your shields all you want but that wont keep you alive long if you dont have a way to create distance between the you and the attackers.

thats not true either my sorc is at 2.2k spell dmg buffed (with staff you can get more for sure but only at cost of both reg AND base stats) while having 2k magica reg but i do agree that i do sacrifice base stats by using a stam/mana reg drink instead of triple food.

[edit spell dmg value corrected]

I don't understand how my 4 martial, 4 healer, 3 magnus set up has 1k magicka regen (with food) and only 2k spell dmg buffed. It is like I am playing a broken character or something.

ToRelax

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

I may be able to do anything I am build for, but that doesn't mean I can build for anything.
If a Sorc can cast Bolt Escape many times in a row he has a high magicka pool. If he is still able to fight in case someone is clever enough to catch up to him, he also needs high regen.
If he already fought some time before trying to escape, he needs high regen, too.

Now you are including stealth (wtf? why would you try to sneak when running away?) and cloak (with a stamina build, no less).
I can do that, too: I don't use only Bolt Ecape, I also dodge roll and use shuffle, damage shields and Boundless Storm.
And we could add a lot more skills and activities that one may do while trying to escape, but it just brings us further from the point. That is, the skills responsible for your speed and their cost.
And that is dodge roll, double take and sprint for a stamina NB and bolt escape for a magicka sorc.

Now you say you can dodge roll 5-6 times. Well, what are we arguing anyway if you didn't build for a low cost on dodge roll and high regen anyway? My stamina Sorc should have a much harder time doing that without the stamina regen passive, and she can dodge roll sprint all the way from chalman to brk (using boundless storm instead of double take). 5-6 times is very low.
And before you start with that like the other stam NBs, yes, you can use double take every 2-4 seconds at least for a long time if you build for it.

Vizier wrote:

ToRelax wrote: »

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Do you even hear yourself? Cloak puts you on the offensive? Only if you have a prayer at killing the Shield stacking sorc. Did you forget that sorcs have other skills besides BE? BE is not stopped by anything. Sorc doesn't have to break CC even to use it. They get positional advantage much more easily and have stackable shields. Between BE and shield stack with incredible ranged dps and cc...trust me. The NB casting cloak isn't thinking about attacking, but rather how the **** do I get out of here alive.

Yes, puts you on the offensive, when you are able to use it a lot of times, obviously. If you are a stamina NB and didn't invest in some magicka cost reduction and magicka regen, you can't rely on a magicka skills as an escape mechanism like that, and certainly not (constantly) use it offensively.
If you cast Cloak and don't get detected instantly, that will take the pressure from you as I wrote, but of course that doesn't help you as much if you're still under pressure from your dwindling magicka pool.

Eejit1331

To those stamina NB that say they ca

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing , no matter what class. But you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while being an active canon the same time.

Same can be said about BE, but yet due to NB cries, our nerf is coming. the truth is slowly coming out that BE is not as OP as the devs believe, just because a few people spec magicka regen and reduction. No on has ever died from a sorc bolting away.

Eejit1331

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

ToRelax wrote: »

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Do you even hear yourself? Cloak puts you on the offensive? Only if you have a prayer at killing the Shield stacking sorc. Did you forget that sorcs have other skills besides BE? BE is not stopped by anything. Sorc doesn't have to break CC even to use it. They get positional advantage much more easily and have stackable shields. Between BE and shield stack with incredible ranged dps and cc...trust me. The NB casting cloak isn't thinking about attacking, but rather how the **** do I get out of here alive.

OMG... Do you not realize you are comparing a stamina NB loadout to a magicka regen/cost reduction loadout. Reverse it... compare a stamina sorc with streak and a magicka NB. NO ONE can argue the two in theat scenario. Cloak would be cut and dry leagues above sreak. Like I said, I don't want to see either abilities nerfed, but the BS lies about BE needs to stop. Wow... you want a stamina build with cloak to outshine streak on a sorc magicka build... SMDH

Septimus_Magna

Tankqull wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

so try using a stamina sorc for bolting if you arguing a stamina NB cant cloak as efficiently as a magica sorc can bolt away.
or in other words while you can cloak 4-5 times on you NB a sorc can bolt 3 times and is out of mana as you are.
so please stop comparing apples to oranges and conclude that bananas are best...

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

ToRelax wrote: »

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Do you even hear yourself? Cloak puts you on the offensive? Only if you have a prayer at killing the Shield stacking sorc. Did you forget that sorcs have other skills besides BE? BE is not stopped by anything. Sorc doesn't have to break CC even to use it. They get positional advantage much more easily and have stackable shields. Between BE and shield stack with incredible ranged dps and cc...trust me. The NB casting cloak isn't thinking about attacking, but rather how the **** do I get out of here alive.

Try to BE while you are IN COMBAT, I doubt you get to 10 BEs with VR2 sorc with green gear. With my VR14 sorc with top tier gear I can BE about 13 times with a full 33k magicka pool while Im in combat, if I want to escape a fight I can usually BE around 6-7 times before running out of magicka.

People claiming that BE is somehow free is complete BS, with light armor and 3x magicka cost reduction enchants it still costs around 3k magicka after the first BE. Some 2k+ magicka regen builds might be able to BE 20 times but they wont have any spell damage. Their damage (especially with the current nirn) is laughable to say the least.

Nevertheless, Cloak certainly doesnt need a nerf and BE shouldnt be made useless because without it sorcs will be free AP bags. You can stack your shields all you want but that wont keep you alive long if you dont have a way to create distance between the you and the attackers.

thats not true either my sorc is at 2.2k spell dmg buffed (with staff you can get more for sure but only at cost of both reg AND base stats) while having 2k magica reg but i do agree that i do sacrifice base stats by using a stam/mana reg drink instead of triple food.

[edit spell dmg value corrected]

I was reffering to destro/resto staff setup, that gives around 200-300 less spell damage than DW/resto setup.

To my knowledge most magicka builds are using tri-stat food to prevent getting 1-shot by snipes. With tri-stat drinks you need 4k extra health to get around 19k health, this will reduce your max magicka by at least 8k (4k from food buff and 4k from attribute/enchtants in health)

With magicka reduction of 8k and only 2.2k spell damage buffed your spells will hit like wet noodles, you wont die easily because of your resource sustain but killing someone takes ages. Ive tried multiple regen builds but they were boring so I switched to a max spell damage build (3.1k spell damage / 33k max magicka / 1.4k magicka regen).

ToRelax

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

so try using a stamina sorc for bolting if you arguing a stamina NB cant cloak as efficiently as a magica sorc can bolt away.
or in other words while you can cloak 4-5 times on you NB a sorc can bolt 3 times and is out of mana as you are.
so please stop comparing apples to oranges and conclude that bananas are best...

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

You can do just about anything if you're built for it m8. I see sorcs RIGHT NOW Streak into the night and on till morning. And this is all about opinion man. But let's break it down. Stealth cost continuous stam, dodge-roll a ton (even with my toon being all stam with CP in cost reduction I still only get about 5-6 rolls.) Cloak takes 20-25% of my magicka pool, Rapid Maneuvers takes roughly 30-40% of the stam pool or Double Take extra magicka. What does a sorc do? Presses 1 effing button 5 or 6 times and they are over the horizon. I'll take that any day of the week. Plus I could get some real estate back on my action bar if all I had to do was hit one skill and doesn't have to worry about magelight, detection potions, someone being near, flares and or damage or negative effects for their skill not to work. ... just ... gawd. Sorc QQ is so laughable.

You're telling me sorcs spend moreto BE? Lawls. I have a V2 sorc toon I barely play and gave crap green gear and she gets 10 BE casts easily.

Don't even try to suggest there's some kind of equivalency here.

ToRelax wrote: »

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Do you even hear yourself? Cloak puts you on the offensive? Only if you have a prayer at killing the Shield stacking sorc. Did you forget that sorcs have other skills besides BE? BE is not stopped by anything. Sorc doesn't have to break CC even to use it. They get positional advantage much more easily and have stackable shields. Between BE and shield stack with incredible ranged dps and cc...trust me. The NB casting cloak isn't thinking about attacking, but rather how the **** do I get out of here alive.

Try to BE while you are IN COMBAT, I doubt you get to 10 BEs with VR2 sorc with green gear. With my VR14 sorc with top tier gear I can BE about 13 times with a full 33k magicka pool while Im in combat, if I want to escape a fight I can usually BE around 6-7 times before running out of magicka.

People claiming that BE is somehow free is complete BS, with light armor and 3x magicka cost reduction enchants it still costs around 3k magicka after the first BE. Some 2k+ magicka regen builds might be able to BE 20 times but they wont have any spell damage. Their damage (especially with the current nirn) is laughable to say the least.

Nevertheless, Cloak certainly doesnt need a nerf and BE shouldnt be made useless because without it sorcs will be free AP bags. You can stack your shields all you want but that wont keep you alive long if you dont have a way to create distance between the you and the attackers.

thats not true either my sorc is at 2.2k spell dmg buffed (with staff you can get more for sure but only at cost of both reg AND base stats) while having 2k magica reg but i do agree that i do sacrifice base stats by using a stam/mana reg drink instead of triple food.

[edit spell dmg value corrected]

I was reffering to destro/resto staff setup, that gives around 200-300 less spell damage than DW/resto setup.

To my knowledge most magicka builds are using tri-stat food to prevent getting 1-shot by snipes. With tri-stat drinks you need 4k extra health to get around 19k health, this will reduce your max magicka by at least 8k (4k from food buff and 4k from attribute/enchtants in health)

With magicka reduction of 8k and only 2.2k spell damage buffed your spells will hit like wet noodles, you wont die easily because of your resource sustain but killing someone takes ages. Ive tried multiple regen builds but they were boring so I switched to a max spell damage build (3.1k spell damage / 33k max magicka / 1.4k magicka regen).

No sorc in his right mind would use tri stat drinks, only blue stam/magicka drink are a real option.
Also, spell damage is way overrated.

cozmon3c_ESO

Zos has no clue, it wasn't bolt escape making the sorc seem OP, it was their shield stacking and their terrible UI design for representing shields that makes it look like you do no damage to sorcs. Remove shield stacking and sorc will be a little less powerful defensively (which is needed don't say it's not). Though anyone and they're mother who is a stam build can keep up with a bolting sorc with a major expedition buff, bow dodge roll, and sprint. All the time using less resources then the bolting sorc as it is. I know this because this is how I am able to keep up with them and run faster then they can bolt. Then use a gap closer while holding block.

This Nerf to bolt escape totally f's over stam sorcs hardcore, not that the original already did. If you max out stam build as a stam sorc you can bolt 1 time. Optimally you need 3 bolt escapes to get out of charge range, so stam sorc gives up damage for higher mobility to survive. With this new Nerf to BE we will then have to sacrifice more damage (which was pretty abysmal even going full stam) just so we can get those 3 BE's. Might as well just go around tickling everyone then or just go back to magicka sorc.

The devs don't understand pvp because they don't f'ing do it. They don't play their own damn game outside of pve crap.

And if this BE change goes through then all the other classes survival abilities should suffer the same fate as BE to even the playing field. DK GDB, TEMP Bol, and NB cloak, all should suffer ther same fate with a cost increase that stacks the more you spam it.

Bromburak

Eejit1331 wrote: »

To those stamina NB that say they ca

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing , no matter what class. But you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while being an active canon the same time.

Same can be said about BE, but yet due to NB cries, our nerf is coming. the truth is slowly coming out that BE is not as OP as the devs believe, just because a few people spec magicka regen and reduction. No on has ever died from a sorc bolting away.

You don't even understand the fix and ignore the big picture.
Once again, you cannot expect being a full shielded canon including mobility.

Make a choice, specialize on a role or deal with consequences as a hybrid. Very simple.

Ezareth

I'm of a mind to challenge any sorc to a Race to see who runs out of resources first. I think most of the skilled NBs in this thread know exactly who is going to win that race.

This whole idea that Sorcs can bolt escape to safety and no one can keep up is laughable.

Eejit1331

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

To those stamina NB that say they ca

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing , no matter what class. But you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while being an active canon the same time.

Same can be said about BE, but yet due to NB cries, our nerf is coming. the truth is slowly coming out that BE is not as OP as the devs believe, just because a few people spec magicka regen and reduction. No on has ever died from a sorc bolting away.

You don't even understand the fix and ignore the big picture.
Once again, you cannot expect being a full shielded canon including mobility.

Make a choice, specialize on a role or deal with consequences as a hybrid. Very simple.

Lol.. like sorcs ever had a choice. I understand the big picture very well and i understand Cloak is next in line for the guillotine.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/195529/grim-focus-magicka-detonation-incapacitating-strike-1-7#latest

And I can't see the big picture. Maybe I see more than you think. Happy hunting!

Bromburak

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

To those stamina NB that say they ca

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing , no matter what class. But you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while being an active canon the same time.

Same can be said about BE, but yet due to NB cries, our nerf is coming. the truth is slowly coming out that BE is not as OP as the devs believe, just because a few people spec magicka regen and reduction. No on has ever died from a sorc bolting away.

You don't even understand the fix and ignore the big picture.
Once again, you cannot expect being a full shielded canon including mobility.

Make a choice, specialize on a role or deal with consequences as a hybrid. Very simple.

Lol.. like sorcs ever had a choice.

So basically you confirm, that there is no trade of for superman hybrids and you still think thats ok. Ridiculous.

Zsymon

Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.

That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.

The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.

Eejit1331

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

To those stamina NB that say they ca

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing , no matter what class. But you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while being an active canon the same time.

Same can be said about BE, but yet due to NB cries, our nerf is coming. the truth is slowly coming out that BE is not as OP as the devs believe, just because a few people spec magicka regen and reduction. No on has ever died from a sorc bolting away.

You don't even understand the fix and ignore the big picture.
Once again, you cannot expect being a full shielded canon including mobility.

Make a choice, specialize on a role or deal with consequences as a hybrid. Very simple.

Lol.. like sorcs ever had a choice.

So basically you confirm, that there is no trade of for superman hybrids and you still think thats ok. Ridiculous.

Putting words in my mouth and or taking words out of context doesn't mean I said it. Sorc never had to choose between bolt escape and hardened ward is what I was referring to. No one gets to choose what power is nerfed. I would gladly trade both for your superman OP Cloak, go anywhere and do anything you want, I win button. So OP!

ToRelax

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

To those stamina NB that say they ca

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing , no matter what class. But you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while being an active canon the same time.

Same can be said about BE, but yet due to NB cries, our nerf is coming. the truth is slowly coming out that BE is not as OP as the devs believe, just because a few people spec magicka regen and reduction. No on has ever died from a sorc bolting away.

You don't even understand the fix and ignore the big picture.
Once again, you cannot expect being a full shielded canon including mobility.

Make a choice, specialize on a role or deal with consequences as a hybrid. Very simple.

Lol.. like sorcs ever had a choice.

So basically you confirm, that there is no trade of for superman hybrids and you still think thats ok. Ridiculous.

I don't think many here would say balance in 1.6 is "ok", but that doesn't mean they think ZOS is addressing the problems the right way...

Ara_Valleria

Let the rise of "NERF CLOAK" threads begin.

Zsymon

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Let the rise of "NERF CLOAK" threads begin.

Getting skills nerfed out of spite will be to the detriment of the game.

Caza99

Let the QQ, BEGIN!

Zsymon

Like I said in another thread, people forget that Cloak has an incredibly high magicka cost, the same as Breath of Life. To use it back to back means speccing entirely into recovery, which means no burst. Magicka Detonation will become useless against single targets, so even less burst. The hardest hitting ability a magicka NB has, hits for about 5K if you spec entirely into spell damage, barely 4K if you have some magicka recovery in order to use Cloak.

Tankqull

Zsymon wrote: »

Like I said in another thread, people forget that Cloak has an incredibly high magicka cost, the same as Breath of Life. To use it back to back means speccing entirely into recovery, which means no burst. Magicka Detonation will become useless against single targets, so even less burst. The hardest hitting ability a magicka NB has, hits for about 5K if you spec entirely into spell damage, barely 4K if you have some magicka recovery in order to use Cloak.

you should definatly get better equip. your stam abilities are eating your stam like nothing when stam speced and your magica abilities even moreso regardless of your specc sth is really fishy there...

Lava_Croft

ToRelax wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found.

And making no damage while being cloaked and never be found ... A significant detail that is being ignored on such comparisons. Getting away is one thing but you cannot expect to have insane amount of shields and high mobility while staying a canon the same time.

Tired and untrue argument is tired and untrue.

Entertaining, explain how someone that cannot be found is making damage the same time?
He decided to leave and to survive, nothing wrong with that.

But a Shield packed Sorc is still an ACTIVE Canon, no glass, and on top of it high mobility. Where is the trade of? It doesn't exist.

Superman Hybrid expectations like yours are a ridiculous habit in ESO.

Ever heard of specializations for being great at a specific role while a hybrid will lose performance?
ZOS is not stupid and they will go a similar way on a long run anyway, to get this insanity under control.

What are you going on about... Cloak puts you on the offensive most of the time, Bolt Escape does not.
That is because after the first cast of Cloak, if the NB does not instantly get detected, the enemies have no information to attack anymore, while the Sorc stays visible and targetable all the time, thus making constant pressure even possible in the first place.
So you seem to disagree for some reason, explain that please, logical.

Glass Cannons get ways to avoid damage, the rest gets ways to tank damage. The fact that Sorcerers have the mobility (read: ability to avoid damage) of a glass cannon while not having the same lack of protection is what's wrong here and that's exactly that ZOS is trying to fix with this blanket nerf, because they obviously have no other clue about to balance things besides blanket nerfs.

Erock25

Zsymon wrote: »

Imo Bolt Escape should have all penalties removed, have roots stop Bolt Escape, remove shield stacking, change the Hardened Ward morph to something else than an increased self shield, like giving it the minor magicka recovery buff (10%) while the shield is up.

That way Sorcs can teleport endlessly around the battlefield, lots of fun to play that way, but their defense is a lot less and it becomes possible to kill a Sorc before he teleports away.

The changes now destroy Sorc mobility (mobility provides fun and enjoyment), but do nothing about their immortality provided by shield stacking.

So heavily nerf sorcs only defense and then make it so a CC with no immunity timer completely shuts down their movement advantage! Brilliant! I would say you should stick to talking about your own class but it seems you don't understand the NB very well either.

Zsymon wrote: »

Like I said in another thread, people forget that Cloak has an incredibly high magicka cost, the same as Breath of Life. To use it back to back means speccing entirely into recovery, which means no burst. Magicka Detonation will become useless against single targets, so even less burst. The hardest hitting ability a magicka NB has, hits for about 5K if you spec entirely into spell damage, barely 4K if you have some magicka recovery in order to use Cloak.

I've never seen anyone more deluded about their own class. Your claims about magicka and stamina nb are very odd. You should at least try to be closer to the facts of you really want to continue your campaign of 'nb aren't that good.'