Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment

Cathexis

Lol so much hypocrisy.

Cloak allows you to become invisible, and regen to full AND deal a 1 hit kill 90% of the time from a choice target

Thats WAY WAY more OP than a 1.5 second aoe or line stun.

Nerf it to into the ground!!!! Two wrong don't make a right, but they do make me happy!!!!!

Zsymon

I guess the problems probably stem from not a single ZOS member playing the game themselves in any meaningful way, they just see the numbers but have no idea what they actually mean.

Zsymon

Cathexis wrote: »

Lol so much hypocrisy.

Cloak allows you to become invisible, and regen to full AND deal a 1 hit kill 90% of the time from a choice target

Thats WAY WAY more OP than a 1.5 second aoe or line stun.

Nerf it to into the ground!!!! Two wrong don't make a right, but they do make me happy!!!!!

Cloak doesn't allow you to regen to full, and it doesn't allow you to deal a 1 hit kill. All it does is give you a few seconds of invisibility and remove some DoTs.

I bet most people crying for a nerf, like above, have no idea how the skill they want to nerf actually works. They read the whine posts, jump on the bandwagon and assume it's some mythically overpowered skills that does all kinds of things it doesn't actually do at all.

Turelus

Only if I get potions which last 40 seconds and stop everyone in a 20m radious from using bolt escape.

Eejit1331

Zsymon wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Lol so much hypocrisy.

Cloak allows you to become invisible, and regen to full AND deal a 1 hit kill 90% of the time from a choice target

Thats WAY WAY more OP than a 1.5 second aoe or line stun.

Nerf it to into the ground!!!! Two wrong don't make a right, but they do make me happy!!!!!

Cloak doesn't allow you to regen to full, and it doesn't allow you to deal a 1 hit kill. All it does is give you a few seconds of invisibility and remove some DoTs.

I bet most people crying for a nerf, like above, have no idea how the skill they want to nerf actually works. They read the whine posts, jump on the bandwagon and assume it's some mythically overpowered skills that does all kinds of things it doesn't actually do at all.

With that rationale, BOL is only less than a second, , so what's the problem. My regen is higher than my cloak cost so it's not just a few seconds, in my case it's infinite. You sound like you are new to the game if you didn't know you could cloak over and over or you are just manipulating the public with lies. Either way you slice it, you are discredited. Using words such as like, just, a little, only are minimizer words indicating you have no confidence in what you are saying.

Eejit1331

Turelus wrote: »

Only if I get potions which last 40 seconds and stop everyone in a 20m radious from using bolt escape.

Great idea! People are lazy and instead of asking for that, they ask for a nerf, but I like that idea. Maybe a potion does not allow any movement bonus to include BOL and all major or minor movement bonus, like a huge AOE snare. BOL should be affected by snares and roots, not nerfed to near uselessness.

Eejit1331

Is it me or is this guy cloaked a little longer than a few seconds? I really wish I could do what this guy is doing with BOL.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/193169/xbox-one-magicka-nightblade-vr-14#latest

Jolinius

With the change to detect pots not bringing nb out of cloak i sure would like to see magelight work properly....most of the time you have to be almost right on top of them to pop stealth with magelight on as it is. I would like to see magelight bypass sneeking racial passives and medium armor passives.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

You can't put a cost increase on cloak like with BE reason being is...

1) Cloak last 2.9 seconds at max

2) No speed buffs meaning even if you move it's at the slow stealth speed, meaning you have to run trash sets like full Night's Silence or Shadow Dancer or be a vamp to remove the stealth speed penalty and concealed weapons for magic builds, cause turning invisible then going no where means you die when they can see you again

3) Does ZERO points damage

4) Is hard countered by Mark Target, Mage Light, AoEs and a 41.3 second Pot

5) Breaks on damage when you get hit, I'm fine with taking AoE damage when cloaked but it only last for 2.9 seconds is getting the full time so much to ask for??

6) Cloak needs to be usable for Stamina Nightblades, lets keep it real stamina sorcs are so few and very far between whereas Stamina Nightblades are most of the class

Yes you can gap cloak to chase a sorc but hard shields means you need a lot of base non crit damage to break it and rolling then running burns stamina with the slower combat regen BE is almost always a free getaway unless the sorc gets cocky and fight with low magic or get CCed till out of stamina and die but if a running sorcs keep running they get away not the same with Nightblades

Eejit1331

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You can't put a cost increase on cloak like with BE reason being is...

1) Cloak last 2.9 seconds at max

2) No speed buffs meaning even if you move it's at the slow stealth speed, meaning you have to run trash sets like full Night's Silence or Shadow Dancer or be a vamp to remove the stealth speed penalty and concealed weapons for magic builds, cause turning invisible then going no where means you die when they can see you again

3) Does ZERO points damage

4) Is hard countered by Mark Target, Mage Light, AoEs and a 41.3 second Pot

5) Breaks on damage when you get hit, I'm fine with taking AoE damage when cloaked but it only last for 2.9 seconds is getting the full time so much to ask for??

6) Cloak needs to be usable for Stamina Nightblades, lets keep it real stamina sorcs are so few and very far between whereas Stamina Nightblades are most of the class

Yes you can gap cloak to chase a sorc but hard shields means you need a lot of base non crit damage to break it and rolling then running burns stamina with the slower combat regen BE is almost always a free getaway unless the sorc gets cocky and fight with low magic or get CCed till out of stamina and die but if a running sorcs keep running they get away not the same with Nightblades

Lol... you want Cloak to be completely viable for stamina users and don't give a rats %#/ about magica Sorc being able to use BOL. No self intrest there. What a joke.

2.9 Seconds over and over and over...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Eejit1331 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You can't put a cost increase on cloak like with BE reason being is...

1) Cloak last 2.9 seconds at max

2) No speed buffs meaning even if you move it's at the slow stealth speed, meaning you have to run trash sets like full Night's Silence or Shadow Dancer or be a vamp to remove the stealth speed penalty and concealed weapons for magic builds, cause turning invisible then going no where means you die when they can see you again

3) Does ZERO points damage

4) Is hard countered by Mark Target, Mage Light, AoEs and a 41.3 second Pot

5) Breaks on damage when you get hit, I'm fine with taking AoE damage when cloaked but it only last for 2.9 seconds is getting the full time so much to ask for??

6) Cloak needs to be usable for Stamina Nightblades, lets keep it real stamina sorcs are so few and very far between whereas Stamina Nightblades are most of the class

Yes you can gap cloak to chase a sorc but hard shields means you need a lot of base non crit damage to break it and rolling then running burns stamina with the slower combat regen BE is almost always a free getaway unless the sorc gets cocky and fight with low magic or get CCed till out of stamina and die but if a running sorcs keep running they get away not the same with Nightblades

Lol... you want Cloak to be completely viable for stamina users and don't give a rats %#/ about magica Sorc being able to use BOL. No self intrest there. What a joke.

2.9 Seconds over and over and over...

Cloak is NOT viable for stamina builds getting three maybe four cloak (sane as BE for those 3 stamina sorcs) had to get 11k magic 8% cost reduction on the Champion System and blue Magic and Stamina regen drinks just to use my cloak more had to waste 3k possible stamina 250 stamina regen of green regen drinks difference and 32~ Theft points, stamina sorcs can make the same sacrifice to use class magic.

Far from pure self interest stamina NBs are most of the class with a lot of magic Nightblades Sorcs are 99% magic builds ZOS should tone back that 50% increase for Stamina Sorcs if there were enough of them not balancing a power that 99% of that class can use to crazy levels for 1% is dumb to say the lease

Derra

I love all the people telling the op about the countless counters of cloak -yet when a sorc tells ppl to use a gapcloser (which hardcounters bolt escape - bow speed + sprint is a softcounter) and actually block while doing so - they get burned at the stake.

Both mechanics require other skills and LOS to function properly. One gets buffed and the other nerfed into the ground. The fun begins when the inevitable nerf cloak topics will start to appear after 1.7 and NBs will be skinned alive when they tell ppl to use the oh sooo vaible cloak counters

eventide03b14a_ESO

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

We as sorcs need to rise and let zos change it to 33% or make snares make the distance shorter, as it is now, I have to BE 4-6 times to get out of range of a chasing sniper, let alone how quickly a NB catches me, or a ambush/crit rush spammer, even invasion, any gap closer really. Its extremely easy to chase and took me almost 8 every time to effectively give me some distance and second to think, BUT NO NERF TO USELESSNESS PLEASE. Sure it will be useful still but bolt wasnt the problem, it was idiots who complained about it. So to all sorcs out there, we can thank ZOS for being incompetent enough to listen to these idiots.

If they increased the range it would make the nerfs less painful.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Derra wrote: »

I love all the people telling the op about the countless counters of cloak -yet when a sorc tells ppl to use a gapcloser (which hardcounters bolt escape - bow speed + sprint is a softcounter) and actually block while doing so - they get burned at the stake.

Both mechanics require other skills and LOS to function properly. One gets buffed and the other nerfed into the ground. The fun begins when the inevitable nerf cloak topics will start to appear after 1.7 and NBs will be skinned alive when they tell ppl to use the oh sooo vaible cloak counters

classic fail equivalence sorcs don't just BE they do so with hardening ward up as all damage shields do 100% chance of no critical damage so you have to break the shield with base damage no gap close hits hard enough to break the shield befor the next jump running them out of magic to recast shields is your best bet unless you have fear then use fear.

holding block while fight will stop your regen in the Next update with the BE change comes in so blocking for no reason thats a big no no now rolling takes stamina as does sprinting but you get BE 17m run get some magic back and BE the stamina build has to run after you burn stamina to do so and never sprinting so not close to the same thing

Turelus

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Only if I get potions which last 40 seconds and stop everyone in a 20m radious from using bolt escape.

Great idea! People are lazy and instead of asking for that, they ask for a nerf, but I like that idea. Maybe a potion does not allow any movement bonus to include BOL and all major or minor movement bonus, like a huge AOE snare. BOL should be affected by snares and roots, not nerfed to near uselessness.

Tangleroot bags from D&D/Pathfinder! Alchemy up something which when thrown gives a strong root effect.

eventide03b14a_ESO

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You can't put a cost increase on cloak like with BE reason being is...

1) Cloak last 2.9 seconds at max

2) No speed buffs meaning even if you move it's at the slow stealth speed, meaning you have to run trash sets like full Night's Silence or Shadow Dancer or be a vamp to remove the stealth speed penalty and concealed weapons for magic builds, cause turning invisible then going no where means you die when they can see you again

3) Does ZERO points damage

4) Is hard countered by Mark Target, Mage Light, AoEs and a 41.3 second Pot

5) Breaks on damage when you get hit, I'm fine with taking AoE damage when cloaked but it only last for 2.9 seconds is getting the full time so much to ask for??

6) Cloak needs to be usable for Stamina Nightblades, lets keep it real stamina sorcs are so few and very far between whereas Stamina Nightblades are most of the class

Yes you can gap cloak to chase a sorc but hard shields means you need a lot of base non crit damage to break it and rolling then running burns stamina with the slower combat regen BE is almost always a free getaway unless the sorc gets cocky and fight with low magic or get CCed till out of stamina and die but if a running sorcs keep running they get away not the same with Nightblades

You need to learn your class better my friend. You have 3 abilities that grant major expedition. And concealed weapon increases invis or stealth speed by 22%. Not that I think it needs a nerf, but your argument is flawed.

• Double Take
• Cripple
• Path of Darkness

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

We as sorcs need to rise and let zos change it to 33% or make snares make the distance shorter, as it is now, I have to BE 4-6 times to get out of range of a chasing sniper, let alone how quickly a NB catches me, or a ambush/crit rush spammer, even invasion, any gap closer really. Its extremely easy to chase and took me almost 8 every time to effectively give me some distance and second to think, BUT NO NERF TO USELESSNESS PLEASE. Sure it will be useful still but bolt wasnt the problem, it was idiots who complained about it. So to all sorcs out there, we can thank ZOS for being incompetent enough to listen to these idiots.

If they increased the range it would make the nerfs less painful.

then you would be running for .2 seconds and boom

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You can't put a cost increase on cloak like with BE reason being is...

1) Cloak last 2.9 seconds at max

2) No speed buffs meaning even if you move it's at the slow stealth speed, meaning you have to run trash sets like full Night's Silence or Shadow Dancer or be a vamp to remove the stealth speed penalty and concealed weapons for magic builds, cause turning invisible then going no where means you die when they can see you again

3) Does ZERO points damage

4) Is hard countered by Mark Target, Mage Light, AoEs and a 41.3 second Pot

5) Breaks on damage when you get hit, I'm fine with taking AoE damage when cloaked but it only last for 2.9 seconds is getting the full time so much to ask for??

6) Cloak needs to be usable for Stamina Nightblades, lets keep it real stamina sorcs are so few and very far between whereas Stamina Nightblades are most of the class

Yes you can gap cloak to chase a sorc but hard shields means you need a lot of base non crit damage to break it and rolling then running burns stamina with the slower combat regen BE is almost always a free getaway unless the sorc gets cocky and fight with low magic or get CCed till out of stamina and die but if a running sorcs keep running they get away not the same with Nightblades

You need to learn your class better my friend. You have 3 abilities that grant major expedition. And concealed weapon increases invis or stealth speed by 22%. Not that I think it needs a nerf, but your argument is flawed.

• Double Take
• Cripple
• Path of Darkness

Double Take last 4 seconds recasting enough to run down sorcs drains my magic and I can claok far more then most stamina Nightblades
Cripple is great for magic build just too low damage on a stamina build the speed would be the only up for a stamina build as the DoT would not scratch a shield
Path cost way to much for a stationary buff if you walk or run off the path no more speed casting that and sprinting after a sorc = no magic

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

@eventide03b14a_ESO I think the buff for CW is 25% at max if my memory serves me

Lava_Croft

ZOS Employee 1: It seems 1.6 removed any need for resource management, which results in endless Bolt Escaping and endless Dodge Rolling.
ZOS_Eric_Wrobel: Let's just put an insane cost increase on Bolt Escape and a laughable cost increase on Dodge Rolling.
ZOS Employee 2: That sounds like the perfect solution to the endless resources.
ESO player base: Sigh.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

plus all the steps to catch a sorc drain stama

Lava_Croft wrote: »

ZOS Employee 1: It seems 1.6 removed any need for resource management, which results in endless Bolt Escaping and endless Dodge Rolling.
ZOS_Eric_Wrobel: Let's just put an insane cost increase on Bolt Escape and a laughable cost increase on Dodge Rolling.
ZOS Employee 2: That sounds like the perfect solution to the endless resources.
ESO player base: Sigh.

the balance is fair look at the magic regen and max magic of many sorc 30k+ magic with 2k+ regen you can still BE just not forever plus my Main is a Stamina build but my magic Nightblades need to be able to roll roots 33% increase is a lot and casters will be calling for that to be lowed once bombard and Talon spammer make you burn your little stamina rolling so you can move or standing and eating damage

Tankqull

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Only if I get potions which last 40 seconds and stop everyone in a 20m radious from using bolt escape.

Great idea! People are lazy and instead of asking for that, they ask for a nerf, but I like that idea. Maybe a potion does not allow any movement bonus to include BOL and all major or minor movement bonus, like a huge AOE snare. BOL should be affected by snares and roots, not nerfed to near uselessness.

do we get than a potion denying any self aimed direct heals and hots?

eventide03b14a_ESO

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

@eventide03b14a_ESO I think the buff for CW is 25% at max if my memory serves me

Quite possibly. More importantly Double Take can be cast while in stealth without breaking it. Few other abilities allow for that and it's the only one with Major Expedition that does. This is really a L2P issue.

Jahosefat

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

6) Cloak needs to be usable for Stamina Nightblades, lets keep it real stamina sorcs are so few and very far between whereas Stamina Nightblades are most of the class

LOL maybe there would be more stam sorcs if they were more viable BE nerf further reduces stam sorc viability, which will probably make them even less common.

Maybe you should look up the definition of "balance".

eventide03b14a_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

ZOS Employee 1: It seems 1.6 removed any need for resource management, which results in endless Bolt Escaping and endless Dodge Rolling.
ZOS_Eric_Wrobel: Let's just put an insane cost increase on Bolt Escape and a laughable cost increase on Dodge Rolling.
ZOS Employee 2: That sounds like the perfect solution to the endless resources.
ESO player base: Sigh.

I quite agree. As the CP increases without any caps to resources I wonder if their solution will be to continue nerfing skills piecemeal, until it becomes essentially pointless to have introduced the CP to begin with.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

@eventide03b14a_ESO I think the buff for CW is 25% at max if my memory serves me

Quite possibly. More importantly Double Take can be cast while in stealth without breaking it. Few other abilities allow for that and it's the only one with Major Expedition that does. This is really a L2P issue.

No I use Double on my bow bar for that very reason speed while stealth and more speed when sprinting it's not like I don't use speed buffs but have to sprint both stops regen and drain stamina whereas casting a shield and BE you're 17m away I have to run to catch up as your magic regens

Jahosefat wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

6) Cloak needs to be usable for Stamina Nightblades, lets keep it real stamina sorcs are so few and very far between whereas Stamina Nightblades are most of the class

LOL maybe there would be more stam sorcs if they were more viable BE nerf further reduces stam sorc viability, which will probably make them even less common.

Maybe you should look up the definition of "balance".

maybe you should think you how Stamina any class played in 1.5 with zero stamina class morphs and no Champ System to cut the cost of magic without light armor or medium Seducer you made due Nightblades had more stamina builds then the other class so we got more stamina morphs sorcs had the lease so they got less it's not like 1.6 killed stamina sorcs they were the smallest play base by far from day one

Joy_Division

Listening to sorcs and NBs argue about their OPness is amusing.

Why don't both of you just fight and die like us templars and DKs

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Listening to sorcs and NBs argue about their OPness is amusing.

Why don't both of you just fight and die like us templars and DKs

LOL sure give me a burst heal and not just HoTs and and Shield not a dodge chance that has a medium armor clone

Joy_Division

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Listening to sorcs and NBs argue about their OPness is amusing.

Why don't both of you just fight and die like us templars and DKs

LOL sure give me a burst heal and not just HoTs and and Shield not a dodge chance that has a medium armor clone

Sure! Use a restoration staff. There, now you have a better burst heal than my templar. KK, I'll trade you my blazing shield for cloak, just tell me where to sign.

Eejit1331

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

plus all the steps to catch a sorc drain stama

Lava_Croft wrote: »

ZOS Employee 1: It seems 1.6 removed any need for resource management, which results in endless Bolt Escaping and endless Dodge Rolling.
ZOS_Eric_Wrobel: Let's just put an insane cost increase on Bolt Escape and a laughable cost increase on Dodge Rolling.
ZOS Employee 2: That sounds like the perfect solution to the endless resources.
ESO player base: Sigh.

the balance is fair look at the magic regen and max magic of many sorc 30k+ magic with 2k+ regen you can still BE just not forever plus my Main is a Stamina build but my magic Nightblades need to be able to roll roots 33% increase is a lot and casters will be calling for that to be lowed once bombard and Talon spammer make you burn your little stamina rolling so you can move or standing and eating damage

My sorc is not all magicka. My sorc is two cyro rings, two adroitness, 4 piece martial knowledge and two turog. You want me to go all magicka and regen so I can bolt away so you can call nerf... I'm going spell damage like most people so I can't just spam harden ward and bolt away because I have used a lot of my resources during the fight. Anyone can make a BOL, cloak or sprint fast loadout, but that is no reason to Nerf. My point is Cloak is just as OP or mare than BOL when geared to exploit. I'm geared for dps just like most dps. Treat BOL and Cloak the same, for better or for worse.

Eejit1331

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

ZOS Employee 1: It seems 1.6 removed any need for resource management, which results in endless Bolt Escaping and endless Dodge Rolling.
ZOS_Eric_Wrobel: Let's just put an insane cost increase on Bolt Escape and a laughable cost increase on Dodge Rolling.
ZOS Employee 2: That sounds like the perfect solution to the endless resources.
ESO player base: Sigh.

I quite agree. As the CP increases without any caps to resources I wonder if their solution will be to continue nerfing skills piecemeal, until it becomes essentially pointless to have introduced the CP to begin with.

This is the macro purpose of my Post.