Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment

Tankqull

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Listening to sorcs and NBs argue about their OPness is amusing.

Why don't both of you just fight and die like us templars and DKs

Agreed. This is why I targeted NB. Temps and DK act like adults.

maybe because none of them posesses a burstheal and on top NB don´t even have a class shield?

Ezareth

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Bolt Escape is not OP, and is by no means a guaranteed 100% escape. Its port range is less then every gap closer. Also every gap closer has an unresistable stun and silence built in to them.

The other night it was comical watching @Ezareth on his Vet 6 Nightblade chase down and butcher every single Sorc that tried to run from him....not one got away from him the entire time that fight was going on that i saw. In fact, one Sorc bolted off the keep wall at Warden and took off, only to see Ez moving as fast as the Flash from DC comics chase the guy down and Crit Rushed him repeatedly and rode his back for many meters and put him down. Gap closers are very good counters.

Well a couple of the good ones get away, and the best ones butcher me instead (like they should considering my terrible gear/passive defenses... damn your VC>Streak>dawnbreaker insta-kill combo Germantrocity haha) but killing sorcs and NBs has always been a guilty pleasure of mine. It is not hard keeping pace with them and when I actually hit Vet 14 I already have all my sets upgraded and waiting for me...even the good ones will be need to be weary then ( =

1094 Weapon damage/17K stamina isn't really going to cause anyone to quake in their boots but I know when I'm on my sorc hearing that crit charge sound to your back is the scariest thing in the game to me.

That said, even at Vet 8 The mobility on my NB is every bit as good if not better than the mobility on my Sorc and I can run longer than any Sorc can bolt escape. I know they have to stop bolting at some point so unless they're running for their nearest keep or zerg, they're going to have to turn and fight me.

Eejit1331

Tankqull wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Listening to sorcs and NBs argue about their OPness is amusing.

Why don't both of you just fight and die like us templars and DKs

Agreed. This is why I targeted NB. Temps and DK act like adults.

maybe because none of them posesses a burstheal and on top NB don´t even have a class shield?

What?! You want to trade funnel health and blurr for harden ward. Done! Now sorc will have something to proc frags for pve w/o being forced to use the destro staff.

Eejit1331

Ezareth wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Bolt Escape is not OP, and is by no means a guaranteed 100% escape. Its port range is less then every gap closer. Also every gap closer has an unresistable stun and silence built in to them.

The other night it was comical watching @Ezareth on his Vet 6 Nightblade chase down and butcher every single Sorc that tried to run from him....not one got away from him the entire time that fight was going on that i saw. In fact, one Sorc bolted off the keep wall at Warden and took off, only to see Ez moving as fast as the Flash from DC comics chase the guy down and Crit Rushed him repeatedly and rode his back for many meters and put him down. Gap closers are very good counters.

Well a couple of the good ones get away, and the best ones butcher me instead (like they should considering my terrible gear/passive defenses... damn your VC>Streak>dawnbreaker insta-kill combo Germantrocity haha) but killing sorcs and NBs has always been a guilty pleasure of mine. It is not hard keeping pace with them and when I actually hit Vet 14 I already have all my sets upgraded and waiting for me...even the good ones will be need to be weary then ( =

1094 Weapon damage/17K stamina isn't really going to cause anyone to quake in their boots but I know when I'm on my sorc hearing that crit charge sound to your back is the scariest thing in the game to me.

That said, even at Vet 8 The mobility on my NB is every bit as good if not better than the mobility on my Sorc and I can run longer than any Sorc can bolt escape. I know they have to stop bolting at some point so unless they're running for their nearest keep or zerg, they're going to have to turn and fight me.

^^^^

Thank you! you hit the nail right on the head. Thank you for speaking the truth.

Ezareth

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Bolt Escape is not OP, and is by no means a guaranteed 100% escape. Its port range is less then every gap closer. Also every gap closer has an unresistable stun and silence built in to them.

The other night it was comical watching @Ezareth on his Vet 6 Nightblade chase down and butcher every single Sorc that tried to run from him....not one got away from him the entire time that fight was going on that i saw. In fact, one Sorc bolted off the keep wall at Warden and took off, only to see Ez moving as fast as the Flash from DC comics chase the guy down and Crit Rushed him repeatedly and rode his back for many meters and put him down. Gap closers are very good counters.

Well a couple of the good ones get away, and the best ones butcher me instead (like they should considering my terrible gear/passive defenses... damn your VC>Streak>dawnbreaker insta-kill combo Germantrocity haha) but killing sorcs and NBs has always been a guilty pleasure of mine. It is not hard keeping pace with them and when I actually hit Vet 14 I already have all my sets upgraded and waiting for me...even the good ones will be need to be weary then ( =

1094 Weapon damage/17K stamina isn't really going to cause anyone to quake in their boots but I know when I'm on my sorc hearing that crit charge sound to your back is the scariest thing in the game to me.

That said, even at Vet 8 The mobility on my NB is every bit as good if not better than the mobility on my Sorc and I can run longer than any Sorc can bolt escape. I know they have to stop bolting at some point so unless they're running for their nearest keep or zerg, they're going to have to turn and fight me.

^^^^

Thank you! you hit the nail right on the head. Thank you for speaking the truth.

I must say I probably make a bad Nightblade as I don't even use cloak and I almost never stealth. I never stealth on my Sorc either. Really kind of wish I'd gone Redguard instead of Bosmer since the stealth bonus is wasted on me and Redguard has superior stamina regen.

Something about players who stealth have just never sat well with me. That's probably why I run Piercing Mark on my build and the moment some NB pops his filthy head out into the open I'm marking him and putting him on the defensive. It is so much easier to kill NB stealth gankers on my NB compared to my sorc. Wrecking blow can be time to land after dodge roll ends as can crit charge and fear stops everyone.

That's why I don't really think cloak needs a 50% increased cost nerf. I find gankers with my mage light all the time and once they are marked they almost never get away.

Tankqull

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Listening to sorcs and NBs argue about their OPness is amusing.

Why don't both of you just fight and die like us templars and DKs

Agreed. This is why I targeted NB. Temps and DK act like adults.

maybe because none of them posesses a burstheal and on top NB don´t even have a class shield?

What?! You want to trade funnel health and blurr for harden ward. Done! Now sorc will have something to proc frags for pve w/o being forced to use the destro staff.

never said that :P but i would love to trade some of the sorc toggles for a spammable cast like funnel. or atleast have one morph of mage´s fury with a different dmg distribution granting ~4-5k dmg instantly and a executioner proc on top of it if in executioniing range while matching the overall dmg of the other morph. that way sorcs would have an alternative to force shock and its morphs.

Eejit1331

Tankqull wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Listening to sorcs and NBs argue about their OPness is amusing.

Why don't both of you just fight and die like us templars and DKs

Agreed. This is why I targeted NB. Temps and DK act like adults.

maybe because none of them posesses a burstheal and on top NB don´t even have a class shield?

What?! You want to trade funnel health and blurr for harden ward. Done! Now sorc will have something to proc frags for pve w/o being forced to use the destro staff.

never said that :P but i would love to trade some of the sorc toggles for a spammable cast like funnel. or atleast have one morph of mage´s fury with a different dmg distribution granting ~4-5k dmg instantly and a executioner proc on top of it if in executioniing range while matching the overall dmg of the other morph. that way sorcs would have an alternative to force shock and its morphs.

My only point is that all classes have very unique and powerful abilities. Letting the devs completely ruin one is just an unreasonable knee jerk reaction that the community shouldn't tolerate, next it could be your class and your favorite ability. I'm okay with buff post but so many nerf post fand rom the top pvp class is crazy. I play three classes so I'll be okay, but for those that only have a sorc class this will be devastating. To all those with sorcs as your mains, I really hope a more reasonable solution is presented.

Eejit1331

It funny how NB say cloak is broken and they can't escape like a sorc can. Then you see a topic like this reminding you that they are feeding you lies to keep their class OP and knock down other class abilities.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/194807/escape-during-pvp#latest

Pirhana7_ESO

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found. I was trolling blue all night last night doing this, I would even cloak in the middle of twenty people, fear them attack one, cloak and I would be gone. So not only is cloak on par with bolt escape in regards to disengaging in a fight, I can linger around and range attack my enemy and Cloak again. If Bolt Escape gets nerfed so should cloak. I don't want to see any ability get nerfed! Matter of fact I think temps need a buff to be on par. But if there is a nerf it needs to be to both Both Escape and Cloak If bolt escape is nerfed as suggested, please just getting rid of it or change it to a gap closer, seeing how stamina sorc suck and Magicka sorc do not have a gap closer. Again, bot escape and Cloak should suffer the same fate. I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!

Cloak and BE are very different abilities. BE is much more powerful. They are both escape tools. But BE is also a travel tool which allows you to cross distances on the map very fast and chase and catch any target and also stun them with the morph. Cloak only lets you hide but not travel or catch a running target.

Eejit1331

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found. I was trolling blue all night last night doing this, I would even cloak in the middle of twenty people, fear them attack one, cloak and I would be gone. So not only is cloak on par with bolt escape in regards to disengaging in a fight, I can linger around and range attack my enemy and Cloak again. If Bolt Escape gets nerfed so should cloak. I don't want to see any ability get nerfed! Matter of fact I think temps need a buff to be on par. But if there is a nerf it needs to be to both Both Escape and Cloak If bolt escape is nerfed as suggested, please just getting rid of it or change it to a gap closer, seeing how stamina sorc suck and Magicka sorc do not have a gap closer. Again, bot escape and Cloak should suffer the same fate. I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!

Cloak and BE are very different abilities. BE is much more powerful. They are both escape tools. But BE is also a travel tool which allows you to chase and catch any target and also stun them with the morph. Cloak only lets you hide but not travel or catch a running target

Its an adrenaline pumping, fight or flight hunt.

With vamp, concealed weapon and rapid maneuver (20 seconds) I move extremely fast as a magicka NB.

Sorc takes off, I pop rapid maneuver, cloak and im in the hunt without the sorc even knowing it. Yes, he takes off like a bullet, but runs out of steam very fast, normally before the 20 seconds is up, allowing me to concealed weapon, hard stun and take him out quickly since he has no magica and if he pops overload due to being out of magicka well I'm at about 80% magicka allowing me to stealth in and out, avoiding his attacks while I burn him. Not even a challenge.

So, he may have a better burst off the line but at the end of the race I catch them 9 out 10 times in the open keep in mind I apply cloak every 2.9 seconds and the sorc has no idea I am there).

Pirhana7_ESO

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found. I was trolling blue all night last night doing this, I would even cloak in the middle of twenty people, fear them attack one, cloak and I would be gone. So not only is cloak on par with bolt escape in regards to disengaging in a fight, I can linger around and range attack my enemy and Cloak again. If Bolt Escape gets nerfed so should cloak. I don't want to see any ability get nerfed! Matter of fact I think temps need a buff to be on par. But if there is a nerf it needs to be to both Both Escape and Cloak If bolt escape is nerfed as suggested, please just getting rid of it or change it to a gap closer, seeing how stamina sorc suck and Magicka sorc do not have a gap closer. Again, bot escape and Cloak should suffer the same fate. I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!

Cloak and BE are very different abilities. BE is much more powerful. They are both escape tools. But BE is also a travel tool which allows you to chase and catch any target and also stun them with the morph. Cloak only lets you hide but not travel or catch a running target

Its an adrenaline pumping, fight or flight hunt.

With vamp, concealed weapon and rapid maneuver (20 seconds) I move extremely fast as a magicka NB.

Sorc takes off, I pop rapid maneuver, cloak and im in the hunt without the sorc even knowing it. Yes, he takes off like a bullet, but runs out of steam very fast, normally before the 20 seconds is up, allowing me to concealed weapon, hard stun and take him out quickly since he has no magica and if he pops overload due to being out of magicka well I'm at about 80% magicka allowing me to stealth in and out, avoiding his attacks while I burn him. Not even a challenge.

So, he may have a better burst off the line but at the end of the race I catch them 9 out 10 times in the open keep in mind I apply cloak every 2.9 seconds and the sorc has no idea I am there).

But your comparing using 1 sorc ability to using............. 1 NB ability +1+slotted NB ability+ an anyclass ability + Being a vampire.

The arguement is about just cloak vs Bolt Escape by them self and how powerful they are.... your kinda off the topic now and are comparing Sorc VS NB. Anything can be made much better when used with other abilities.

Eejit1331

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found. I was trolling blue all night last night doing this, I would even cloak in the middle of twenty people, fear them attack one, cloak and I would be gone. So not only is cloak on par with bolt escape in regards to disengaging in a fight, I can linger around and range attack my enemy and Cloak again. If Bolt Escape gets nerfed so should cloak. I don't want to see any ability get nerfed! Matter of fact I think temps need a buff to be on par. But if there is a nerf it needs to be to both Both Escape and Cloak If bolt escape is nerfed as suggested, please just getting rid of it or change it to a gap closer, seeing how stamina sorc suck and Magicka sorc do not have a gap closer. Again, bot escape and Cloak should suffer the same fate. I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!

Cloak and BE are very different abilities. BE is much more powerful. They are both escape tools. But BE is also a travel tool which allows you to chase and catch any target and also stun them with the morph. Cloak only lets you hide but not travel or catch a running target

Its an adrenaline pumping, fight or flight hunt.

With vamp, concealed weapon and rapid maneuver (20 seconds) I move extremely fast as a magicka NB.

Sorc takes off, I pop rapid maneuver, cloak and im in the hunt without the sorc even knowing it. Yes, he takes off like a bullet, but runs out of steam very fast, normally before the 20 seconds is up, allowing me to concealed weapon, hard stun and take him out quickly since he has no magica and if he pops overload due to being out of magicka well I'm at about 80% magicka allowing me to stealth in and out, avoiding his attacks while I burn him. Not even a challenge.

So, he may have a better burst off the line but at the end of the race I catch them 9 out 10 times in the open keep in mind I apply cloak every 2.9 seconds and the sorc has no idea I am there).

But your comparing using 1 sorc ability to using............. 1 NB ability +1+slotted NB ability+ an anyclass ability + Being a vampire.

The arguement is about just cloak vs Bolt Escape by them self and how powerful they are.... your kinda off the topic now and are comparing Sorc VS NB. Anything can be made much better when used with other abilities.

Sir, you are correct. I am quasi off point by from the title. You are very logical and I appreciate your response. I still dont believe the nerf hammer should come down they way brian explained it. I play many classes And many classes have something op. BoL is on and Cloak is one. Side by side, you are corrext, for magicka users only, BOL is stronger, but for stamina users cloak is strong and the potential to synergies is greater with cloak. I don't want to see anything nerfed. I want equal treatment. Leave both BOL and Cloak alone. At worse, my it so BOL can have roots.

Pirhana7_ESO

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found. I was trolling blue all night last night doing this, I would even cloak in the middle of twenty people, fear them attack one, cloak and I would be gone. So not only is cloak on par with bolt escape in regards to disengaging in a fight, I can linger around and range attack my enemy and Cloak again. If Bolt Escape gets nerfed so should cloak. I don't want to see any ability get nerfed! Matter of fact I think temps need a buff to be on par. But if there is a nerf it needs to be to both Both Escape and Cloak If bolt escape is nerfed as suggested, please just getting rid of it or change it to a gap closer, seeing how stamina sorc suck and Magicka sorc do not have a gap closer. Again, bot escape and Cloak should suffer the same fate. I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!

Cloak and BE are very different abilities. BE is much more powerful. They are both escape tools. But BE is also a travel tool which allows you to chase and catch any target and also stun them with the morph. Cloak only lets you hide but not travel or catch a running target

Its an adrenaline pumping, fight or flight hunt.

With vamp, concealed weapon and rapid maneuver (20 seconds) I move extremely fast as a magicka NB.

Sorc takes off, I pop rapid maneuver, cloak and im in the hunt without the sorc even knowing it. Yes, he takes off like a bullet, but runs out of steam very fast, normally before the 20 seconds is up, allowing me to concealed weapon, hard stun and take him out quickly since he has no magica and if he pops overload due to being out of magicka well I'm at about 80% magicka allowing me to stealth in and out, avoiding his attacks while I burn him. Not even a challenge.

So, he may have a better burst off the line but at the end of the race I catch them 9 out 10 times in the open keep in mind I apply cloak every 2.9 seconds and the sorc has no idea I am there).

But your comparing using 1 sorc ability to using............. 1 NB ability +1+slotted NB ability+ an anyclass ability + Being a vampire.

The arguement is about just cloak vs Bolt Escape by them self and how powerful they are.... your kinda off the topic now and are comparing Sorc VS NB. Anything can be made much better when used with other abilities.

Sir, you are correct. I am quasi off point by from the title. You are very logical and I appreciate your response. I still dont believe the nerf hammer should come down they way brian explained it. I play many classes And many classes have something op. BoL is on and Cloak is one. Side by side, you are corrext, for magicka users only, BOL is stronger, but for stamina users cloak is strong and the potential to synergies is greater with cloak. I don't want to see anything nerfed. I want equal treatment. Leave both BOL and Cloak alone. At worse, my it so BOL can have roots.

I agree i dont believe eigther ability should be nerfd. But between the 2 i do see BE as having more utilility. As for Cloak i do understand peoples complaint about magika NBs being able to stay invisible for so long. I think Cloaks was mainly intended to make it so you could not be targetted during a fight on and off during that fight. I dont think it was inteneded to be something that let you cloak so far away to safety. maybe they could add a small trail you leave behind. this way nothing would change during the fight but if you tried to cloak away to safety they could follow your trail......

Gunphu

I may not be the most experienced player as i am only VR7 on the console. But it seems super obvious that being a magicka NB w/o current cloak would be a joke. It would be like removing sorc shield stacking and nerfing BOL to the ground.

Caza99

I haven't got the time to read through this whole thread, so I'm just going to drop my 2 cents worth on the subject...

Firstly, in terms of an escape mechanic in the CURRENT STATE of the game, Bolt Escape and Cloak are definitely not on par. Bolt Escape has no counter in terms of ESCAPING. A NB can be marked to prevent escaping, an enemy can use Mage Light, and Detect Potions can take them out of stealth.

I think the upcoming change to Bolt Escape is very harsh, as do many. Stacking 50% cost on each cast is very harsh, most Sorcs won't be able to string more than about 3 Bolt Escapes in a row. It will no longer be an effective escape mechanic. In this way, cloak definitely comes out on top, imo.

In the next update, Cloak will be very powerful. Even in 1.6, it is very powerful. Currently, there are magicka NBs in a 5-1-1 setup that can still cloak indefinitely. But there are many counters to it, as I mentioned above. I don't think the changes coming in the next update will last long before it's nerfed again, because of threads like these.

Finally, Cloak+Healing Ward are a magicka NBs only semi-reliable ways to heal. We have no class shield or heal. IMO thats how it should be. The changes to cloak are making magicka NB more viable in PvP. But, if either Cloak or Healing Ward were nerfed, Magicka NB would would lose a lot of survivability.

TL;DR:
1) Learn 2 Magelight
2) Nerf to Bolt Escape too harsh, no longer effective escape
3) Cloak in next update will be where it should be, but QQ'rs will get it nerfed again.
4) NBs need Cloak to work as intended to survive.

Just my opinion, idc if people don't agree

Lava_Croft

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

Eejit1331

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

I've seen players run as fast as the fastest horse with all the buff, bow and CP tree passive. I'm fine with all of this. I just don't like how only bolt escape is getting the biggest target when there are so many other issues. A nerf this hard is not only a nerf to serc, but future hard hitting powers for other classes. This nerf is about setting Precedence. I hope all classes can see the chain reaction that will happen.

Soulac

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

What have speedbuffs to do with nightblade? Everyone is able to slot a Bow and use Maneuver.
You can't keep up the double take speedbuff as Stamina NB unless you invested a lot in Magicka and still, Maneuver has the same speed bonus.
Ofc with Concealed weapon and as vampire you may be able to run very fast in cloak, but Concealed is Magicka based, so they won't equip a Bow.

If I missed something enlighten me please.

Vizier

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

As for a horse- Get over it. They spend the magicka and Stamina to move fast. It's not unreasonable for magically enhanced speed to match a horse, but guess what... You can magically enhance your horse's speed too, which will dust any NB's or Sorc's.

All that said...as much as I detest Sorc's as a class I believe folks and ZoS really need to ensure BE works as a method of escape. There has to be some expectation when a sorc needs to use it they will have a depleted magicka pool from fighting. If the exponential increase means they have no way to cast it more than 2-3 times then they are going to die alot. They will be caught and have little to no magicka to fight. If ZoS does this they need to be all over the situation monitoring it so as to make micro adjustments fast to balance it out. They can't be in a situation where PvP balance is all out of whack the other way and then wait months to adjust it. They need to be ready to make adjustments within 2 weeks of the changes and every week after that. until it's right.

I'm looking forward to the new cloak candy but I have to put down some bias when considering BE. Right now I think it's OP. After 1.7 it risks not being useful for escape at all.

ToRelax

Vizier wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

A fraction of the cost? Are you kidding me? Dodge-roll+Rapid Maneuvers or Double Take+sprint for speed = metric ton of resources. Get real. IMO- NB spends more. In order to maintain or rebuild resources some alternate between Rapid M and DT. The cost to moving fast and in stealth means a continuous depletion which makes them less ready to fight should they need to.

Well sorry, but this is not about anyone's opinion - it's a simple fact that using bow dodge rolls + a speed buff + sprint is both faster and cheaper than spamming bolt escape, when you are build for it.
Using a magicka based speedbuff, you can make better use of both resource pools, drinks and cp and the extra cost of bolt escape is not even effected by percentual cost reduction.

Eejit1331

I'm surprised you have not seen these fast sprinters. The guy had a ton of CP point, he was an es emp on NA AD side. He had a bunch of tricks that he never told anyone and running as fast as he did and managing his resources I'm unsure of but I know he did it was long enough to take a scroll and make it back to return it. This was a few months ago. Maybe some set gear??? I really don't know but he was fast enough to catch a sorc. The point is there are multiple was to catch a sorc just like a sorc has to spec a lot of magicka and magicka regen others can to in different ways to get speed. Speccing for speed does reduce other areas. Most sorcs that can bolt excessively do not hit hard, have low stamina, low health and can be caught by others that spec for speed.

ToRelax

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I'm surprised you have seen these fast sprinters. The guy had a ton of CP point, he was an es emp on NA AD side. He had a bunch of tricks that he never told anyone and running as fast as he did and managing his resources I'm unsure of but I know he did it long enough to take a scroll and make it back to return it. This was a few mont h s ago. Maybe some set gear??? I really don't know but he was fast enough to catch a sorc. The point is there are multiple was to catch a ssorc.just like a sorc has to spec a lot of magicka and magicka regen others can to in different ways to get speed.

With enough regen and cost reduction anyone with a bow can sprint fast and for a long time.
I can do that on my stam sorc, too The mobility from bolt escape is no competition, but bolt escape is still better to create gaps in the first place, also because it ignores roots and snares. Once out of charge range though, the bow dodge + sprint speed is unparralleled.

King Bozo

Magelight or caltrophs solves the problem. We don't need more nerf hammers please. Try playing the game and working on how to counter each classes weakness. I promise you may die but that does not mean every class needs to be nerfed including nb.

Septimus_Magna

The conclusion that Cloak needs to be nerfed because the devs make BE and dodge roll extremely expensive to use multiple times is a little strange if you ask me. Wouldnt it be better to fix BE and dodge roll so it remains useful during fights without making it an easy escape skill?

The suggestions have been mentioned multiple times, remove the cost stacking of BE and dodge roll when you land an attack. BE/dodge roll will still be useful on the battlefield because the cost stacking cost is regulated dynamically and it doesnt completely drain your magicka/stamina pool if you use it like its intended. If someone just wants to escape they might be able to BE/dodge roll a couple times in a row before running out of resources.

I know such a change wont completely mess up the magicka sorcs and stamina builds out there. Besides shields sorcs rely on BE to survive (shields are strong 1v1 but they melt 1vX situations) and stamina builds only have a few heals/shields so they rely on dodge roll to survive. If this isnt fixed properly the TTK wont change for the better. Especially stamina builds will have a hard time surviving without stamina regen while blocking, increased dodge roll cost and reduced spell resist because of the nirn nerf.

Joy_Division

Soulac wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

What have speedbuffs to do with nightblade? Everyone is able to slot a Bow and use Maneuver.
You can't keep up the double take speedbuff as Stamina NB unless you invested a lot in Magicka and still, Maneuver has the same speed bonus.
Ofc with Concealed weapon and as vampire you may be able to run very fast in cloak, but Concealed is Magicka based, so they won't equip a Bow.

If I missed something enlighten me please.

I'll get on the bow + maneuver spec with my magicka templar...

What speed has to do with NBs is not only do they have easy access to major expedition, that access comes with one of the better defensive skills in the game. So every NB is going to be fast.

Of course, sorcs also have easy access to major expedition and they are going to need it next patch.

Eejit1331

Soulac wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

What have speedbuffs to do with nightblade? Everyone is able to slot a Bow and use Maneuver.
You can't keep up the double take speedbuff as Stamina NB unless you invested a lot in Magicka and still, Maneuver has the same speed bonus.
Ofc with Concealed weapon and as vampire you may be able to run very fast in cloak, but Concealed is Magicka based, so they won't equip a Bow.

If I missed something enlighten me please.

Point one- cloak and BE should have the same treatment from the devs as those have very similar end results, they both can exit a fight very easy.

Point two- there are multiple was to catch someone using BE and someone using Cloak. And one example of catching someone using BE is sprinting at a ridiculous speed, just like others mentioned using mage light to detect someone who is cloak. 4 pages is a long thread so it can be confusing following the *** for tat going on.

Point 3- I am not an advocate of any nerf. I do advocate checks and balance. I don't want to see cloak or BE nerfed as that would ruin two of my top two classes that I play Leaving me to pvp with my temp who needs a major buff.

***side note... instead of any nerf.. may buff mist form to regen magicka during use??? Just an idea.

ToRelax

Eejit1331 wrote: »

***side note... instead of any nerf.. may buff mist form to regen magicka during use??? Just an idea.

That would be too powerful. There would be no way draining the vampire's resources since he takes 75% less damage, can't be hard cc'ed and use mist forever.

Eejit1331

ToRelax wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

***side note... instead of any nerf.. may buff mist form to regen magicka during use??? Just an idea.

That would be too powerful. There would be no way draining the vampire's resources since he takes 75% less damage, can't be hard cc'ed and use mist forever.

Agreed

k2blader

Eejit1331 wrote: »

I have been playing both magicka sorc and magicka NB and after putting in some time on both classes I must say cloak is much more powerful due to the fact a NB can use a speed boost, cloak, break line of sight and never be found. I was trolling blue all night last night doing this, I would even cloak in the middle of twenty people, fear them attack one, cloak and I would be gone. So not only is cloak on par with bolt escape in regards to disengaging in a fight, I can linger around and range attack my enemy and Cloak again. If Bolt Escape gets nerfed so should cloak. I don't want to see any ability get nerfed! Matter of fact I think temps need a buff to be on par. But if there is a nerf it needs to be to both Both Escape and Cloak If bolt escape is nerfed as suggested, please just getting rid of it or change it to a gap closer, seeing how stamina sorc suck and Magicka sorc do not have a gap closer. Again, bot escape and Cloak should suffer the same fate. I believe every class should be OP in its own unique way. Stop with the nerfs!

Bolded the stuff that stuck out most for me.

Imagine if Cloak was the one getting the stacking 50% cost increase. I think most NBs would be alarmed and outraged and I wouldn't blame them. And I wouldn't go on their threads saying, "Why are you spamming cloak? You don't need to spam cloak. It's fine."

Ezareth

Soulac wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Not Bolt Escape and Cloak should have the same treatment, but Bolt Escape and the ridiculous combo of speed buffs that Nightblade Bow users can get.

I don't understand why everybody rightfully cries about Bolt Escape, but there's barely any word on Nightblade Bow users moving at least as fast (and often faster) at a fraction of the cost of Bolt Escaping.

In the past, changes were made so speed buffs from certain armor sets would not stack in order to get people's movement speed down to levels that are not faster than a horse.

What have speedbuffs to do with nightblade? Everyone is able to slot a Bow and use Maneuver.
You can't keep up the double take speedbuff as Stamina NB unless you invested a lot in Magicka and still, Maneuver has the same speed bonus.
Ofc with Concealed weapon and as vampire you may be able to run very fast in cloak, but Concealed is Magicka based, so they won't equip a Bow.

If I missed something enlighten me please.

Actually Maneuvers is bugged and only gives you 30% speed. Doubletake gives you the full 40% and it can easily be cast perpetually with any build running drink.NB synergy with full medium armor, access to double-take and synergy with bows and excessive stamina regen make them the best sprinter in the game, especially if Orc.

If terrain didn't screw up sprinting similar to the old horse bug then you could easily run places faster than people can retreating + horse there with the right setup.