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Make all damage shields in game scale with health.
-
Lhorion✭✭✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »This would make health more of a stat you would want defensively as opposed to getting double the benefit of offense and defense from another resource pool.
choices...choices..
Here's the damage shields that should change.
brawler
whitestrakes
annulment
conjured ward
Steadfast ward is a healing tool, and for the sake of balance already scales with health. It scales with missing health. A higher health pool will allow you to more easily take advantage of this scaling.
Barrier should stay scaling off highest stat, I think it should be changed to allow health to increase it's value, if that should be the highest stat. It is an ultimate after all. This is really the only exception that makes sense to me. It is technically a damage shield, but it's also an ultimate.
The other damage shields in the game scale with health, or are static.
discuss.
No.
There is already plenty of Templar and DK tank builds in PvP which can easily mitigate a group of damage dealers. They usually have high base HP and Stamina. If you would add them a shield scaling with their health, they would be virtually immortal.
You know that templar and DK class shields are scaling with health right now?
If all class shields would scale with health sorcs would have to do a compromise when they want a strong shield. Would be fair. I have a V14 Sorc and yes, this shield scaling with magicka is too much.2 -
ForTheRealm✭✭✭Just imagine adding a HP-scaled shield to a build like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgNFBKNCd7Q
It would be able to tank the whole army :-(1 -
ForTheRealm✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »This would make health more of a stat you would want defensively as opposed to getting double the benefit of offense and defense from another resource pool.
choices...choices..
Here's the damage shields that should change.
brawler
whitestrakes
annulment
conjured ward
Steadfast ward is a healing tool, and for the sake of balance already scales with health. It scales with missing health. A higher health pool will allow you to more easily take advantage of this scaling.
Barrier should stay scaling off highest stat, I think it should be changed to allow health to increase it's value, if that should be the highest stat. It is an ultimate after all. This is really the only exception that makes sense to me. It is technically a damage shield, but it's also an ultimate.
The other damage shields in the game scale with health, or are static.
discuss.
No.
There is already plenty of Templar and DK tank builds in PvP which can easily mitigate a group of damage dealers. They usually have high base HP and Stamina. If you would add them a shield scaling with their health, they would be virtually immortal.
You know that templar and DK class shields are scaling with health right now?
If all class shields would scale with health sorcs would have to do a compromise when they want a strong shield. Would be fair. I have a V14 Sorc and yes, this shield scaling with magicka is too much.
LOL, So you just calling to nerf Sorcs and not change the shields mechanics?
BTW. Which DK shield is scaling with health right now?0 -
Lhorion✭✭✭✭✭I don't think it would be a huge nerf, it just would force Sorcerers to make a compromise. If Harness should scale with Health.... Not sure, but might be good, too. Shields (defense) should scale with health because a damage build would have to make a compromise having defense at the same time. Pushing Magicka for damage, defense, mobility at the Same time is - my oppinion - stupid. Or in your words: LOL!
Which DK shield scales with health?
Let's think about it.... Maybe the class shield from Earhern Heart called Obsidian Shield (famous morph: Igneous Shield).2 -
ForTheRealm✭✭✭I don't think it would be a huge nerf, it just would force Sorcerers to make a compromise. If Harness should scale with Health.... Not sure, but might be good, too. Shields (defense) should scale with health because a damage build would have to make a compromise having defense at the same time. Pushing Magicka for damage, defense, mobility at the Same time is - my oppinion - stupid. Or in your words: LOL!
Which DK shield scales with health?
Let's think about it.... Maybe the class shield from Earhern Heart called Obsidian Shield (famous morph: Igneous Shield).
So if you want a Sorc nerf just call it that way and explain reasoning, and do not try to cover it under "Make all damage shields in game scale with health" idea.
I personally believe that it would be much easier to balance game if shields would be only stamina/magicka based. Then everyone would make a decision to invest in skills (stamina/magicka) which are more defensive or offensive. Mixing this with a health pool just makes another mess.0 -
Lhorion✭✭✭✭✭You do not understand. It is not just about sorcs. I have a magicka DK with shieldstacking (class + Harness and in some duels + Boneshield). And here is the same. My Harness is extremly strong because of my magicka. If all shields would scale with health I would have to rethink my attributes. Every build with shields should have this compromise to make: Full damage = weaker shields/ strong shields = less damage (still enough).
Most tank builds in heavy armour and with S&B don't care about shields because the armour/resi does not count on shields. Have you ever seen a heavy armour build shieldstacking? DKs for examle use in heavy their class shield for healing.1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »Just imagine adding a HP-scaled shield to a build like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgNFBKNCd7Q
It would be able to tank the whole army :-(
That's no joke, and I can't believe people are asking for this without thinking through to the inevitable consequences: unkillable Sorc Tanks and new life for Stamina Sorcs!
Honestly, I don't care either way. My Sorcerer goes back and forth between Stamina and Magkica builds every 2 weeks anyway, so I'll find a way make this lemon into lemonade if this nerf actually happens.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »
You should be embarrassed of commenting on something without knowing how to use it properly. Look here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169525/solo-nightblade-keep-defense-1vx-pvp-w-sypher#latest and see how to do damage while dodge rolling. Here is a hint .... dodge roll doesn't take up the same global cool down as activating an ability.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »
You should be embarrassed of commenting on something without knowing how to use it properly. Look here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169525/solo-nightblade-keep-defense-1vx-pvp-w-sypher#latest and see how to do damage while dodge rolling. Here is a hint .... dodge roll doesn't take up the same global cool down as activating an ability.
Yup, this is why I'm not even playing my Sorc any more. It is absurd how easy it is for me to kill shield stacking sorcs with 30K hps on my NB in BWB. Lv 49 Sorc last night was trying to kill my L28 NB with my own game by overloading me to death. He hit me with 1 overload while I did nothing but dodge roll animation cancel > crit charge > dodge roll animation cancel crit charge > wrecking blow. Once he broke free and tried to run I crit charge spammed every bolt escape he cast and put him down like a rabid dog. The fight ended with me at full health, magicka, and 80% Stamina. The funny thing is I don't even have fear yet.
Dodge Roll Spam, Wrecking Blow Spam, Fear Spam, cast anything and I'll Venom Arrow > crit charge you for +25% damage.
NBs and stam builds are unholy terrors right now and who are the people complaining about Sorcs? Irony at its finest.Edited by Ezareth on 6 May 2015 14:50Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube4 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »Just imagine adding a HP-scaled shield to a build like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgNFBKNCd7Q
It would be able to tank the whole army :-(
But.. this build is using a HP-scaled shield already.
And this post even has an agree? Seriously?
Do people even play this game before posting here?3 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »Just imagine adding a HP-scaled shield to a build like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgNFBKNCd7Q
It would be able to tank the whole army :-(
But.. this build is using a HP-scaled shield already.
And this post even has an agree? Seriously?
Do people even play this game before posting here?
Haha yeah. Makes me want to go more tanky and just be a huge distraction. I want to level a DK now though. That leap from the wall was awesome.0 -
trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »
You should be embarrassed of commenting on something without knowing how to use it properly. Look here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169525/solo-nightblade-keep-defense-1vx-pvp-w-sypher#latest and see how to do damage while dodge rolling. Here is a hint .... dodge roll doesn't take up the same global cool down as activating an ability.
So, you saw a video where you think the night blade can deal damage while dodge rolling, and now you come to the conclusion that this is something we can do. But, to be honest, between you and me, did you ever try it?
No, because I mean if you had tried it, you would have realized this is just not possible.
The only thing you can do is to cut anim an ability with a dodge roll.
May be you saw the night blade dodging an attack with the 20% dodge chance of the medium armor ability?
0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »
The only thing you can do is to cut anim an ability with a dodge roll.
Which is exactly what I'm talking about because it allows you to do damage while dodge rolling which is exactly what you said couldn't happen. The global cool down for abilities is around 1 second, which coincides nicely with the around 1 second immunity from dodge roll. You can actually weave your abilities with dodge rolls and attack literally just as fast if you were just spamming the ability.
If a dodge roll could heal me, or would allow me to deal damage while I dodge, YES ! The only dmg you are doing while spamming Hardened Ward is light/medium attacks, while dodge roll mitigates infinitely (literally) more damage than Hardened Ward and allows you to use ability attacks at maximum speed.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points3 -
xxslam48xxb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
I know for a fact if you try to attack while rolling it will slightly delay your roll so that you can be hit. With 5+ people chasing you that slight delay means death. So we either commit to rolling away to safety or we risk casting something and being hit in return. Same thing with bolt escape, if you stop casting it for anything your opening yourself to getting hit. Luckly there is plenty of moves to counter either of these escape methods, so if your bars aren't up to the task then thats your problem. As a nb myself I usually deal with my roll spammy brethren with a soul assault once they enter "oh *** im getting owned time to roll" phase. We generally dont have much health to begin with so once we get into roll stance we are probably done for with 1 soul assault. What sorcs usually do to kill me is apply deadric curse and magic detonation on me before roll phase begins so that way they got damage on me and prevent me from cloaking. Thats what good sorcs do, the baddies go to the forums after their frags miss and I restealth to 3 shot them with snipe. Another tip, never assume a cloaking nb is trying to run from you, most of the time we are stalking you and waiting for a weakness to open. I can one shot an unshielded sorc with a sneak uppercut so watch you back.trimsic_ESO wrote: »
You should be embarrassed of commenting on something without knowing how to use it properly. Look here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169525/solo-nightblade-keep-defense-1vx-pvp-w-sypher#latest and see how to do damage while dodge rolling. Here is a hint .... dodge roll doesn't take up the same global cool down as activating an ability.
Yup, this is why I'm not even playing my Sorc any more. It is absurd how easy it is for me to kill shield stacking sorcs with 30K hps on my NB in BWB. Lv 49 Sorc last night was trying to kill my L28 NB with my own game by overloading me to death. He hit me with 1 overload while I did nothing but dodge roll animation cancel > crit charge > dodge roll animation cancel crit charge > wrecking blow. Once he broke free and tried to run I crit charge spammed every bolt escape he cast and put him down like a rabid dog. The fight ended with me at full health, magicka, and 80% Stamina. The funny thing is I don't even have fear yet.
Dodge Roll Spam, Wrecking Blow Spam, Fear Spam, cast anything and I'll Venom Arrow > crit charge you for +25% damage.
NBs and stam builds are unholy terrors right now and who are the people complaining about Sorcs? Irony at its finest.
I wrote a poem that I titled, "The ganker's delight."
As you lay upon the ground, cry not little pawn.
The pain will pass as quickly as my blade did take you,
but my delight will last and you will respawn.
My heart simply cannot contain my joy, when I ply my trade.
The fault lies with you, your skill was lacking.
Now your salt is mine forever, can't you hear the laughing?
Once you were so proud and now you are reduced to this.
A miserable, loud deuced fool.
With every tear you drip, with every excuse you let slip.
All of your insecurities and worries bring a smile to my lip.
From your despair I have ripped endless glories,
but our affair is over now. Be afraid for I will return for more.
I have received many titles, to my allies I am The sniper Emperor and Grand champion hero of the Pact. However these titles mean little to me, it is the ones given to me by my victims that I prefer. To them I am "Xv1er", "trash", "no balls", "zerger", "noob", "cringe", "no skill", "camper", "100% new", "the reason this game is dying", "pathetic", "a sack of piece of [snip]", "mediocre", "absolute inbred", "beyond a virgin", "ganky dork", "fat smelly 40yr old virgin", "little girl", "daddy", "exploiting loser", and every [snipped] word known to man.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This would make health more of a stat you would want defensively as opposed to getting double the benefit of offense and defense from another resource pool.
choices...choices..
Here's the damage shields that should change.
brawler
whitestrakes
annulment
conjured ward
Steadfast ward is a healing tool, and for the sake of balance already scales with health. It scales with missing health. A higher health pool will allow you to more easily take advantage of this scaling.
Barrier should stay scaling off highest stat, I think it should be changed to allow health to increase it's value, if that should be the highest stat. It is an ultimate after all. This is really the only exception that makes sense to me. It is technically a damage shield, but it's also an ultimate.
The other damage shields in the game scale with health, or are static.
discuss.
I tried out Steadfast ward and wasn't impressed with it. In fact I thought it sucked. So I don't really think making the rest of the shields like that one is a good solution.
Abilities need to be effective and useful else there is no point to having them. The better way to address PvP problems (if that is the root of your OP) is to tone down the damage to where offensive jobs can't make use of shields to blow people away in seconds while being protected by them.Edited by Jeremy on 6 May 2015 20:200 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »
I know for a fact if you try to attack while rolling it will slightly delay your roll so that you can be hit. With 5+ people chasing you that slight delay means death. So we either commit to rolling away to safety or we risk casting something and being hit in return. Same thing with bolt escape, if you stop casting it for anything your opening yourself to getting hit. Luckly there is plenty of moves to counter either of these escape methods, so if your bars aren't up to the task then thats your problem. As a nb myself I usually deal with my roll spammy brethren with a soul assault once they enter "oh *** im getting owned time to roll" phase. We generally dont have much health to begin with so once we get into roll stance we are probably done for with 1 soul assault. What sorcs usually do to kill me is apply deadric curse and magic detonation on me before roll phase begins so that way they got damage on me and prevent me from cloaking. Thats what good sorcs do, the baddies go to the forums after their frags miss and I restealth to 3 shot them with snipe. Another tip, never assume a cloaking nb is trying to run from you, most of the time we are stalking you and waiting for a weakness to open. I can one shot an unshielded sorc with a sneak uppercut so watch you back.trimsic_ESO wrote: »
You should be embarrassed of commenting on something without knowing how to use it properly. Look here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169525/solo-nightblade-keep-defense-1vx-pvp-w-sypher#latest and see how to do damage while dodge rolling. Here is a hint .... dodge roll doesn't take up the same global cool down as activating an ability.
Yup, this is why I'm not even playing my Sorc any more. It is absurd how easy it is for me to kill shield stacking sorcs with 30K hps on my NB in BWB. Lv 49 Sorc last night was trying to kill my L28 NB with my own game by overloading me to death. He hit me with 1 overload while I did nothing but dodge roll animation cancel > crit charge > dodge roll animation cancel crit charge > wrecking blow. Once he broke free and tried to run I crit charge spammed every bolt escape he cast and put him down like a rabid dog. The fight ended with me at full health, magicka, and 80% Stamina. The funny thing is I don't even have fear yet.
Dodge Roll Spam, Wrecking Blow Spam, Fear Spam, cast anything and I'll Venom Arrow > crit charge you for +25% damage.
NBs and stam builds are unholy terrors right now and who are the people complaining about Sorcs? Irony at its finest.
When I dodge cast on my Sorc to finish a target or heal up while creating distance, I get only hit from abilities that ignore dodge roll, wich are not many (so usually don't get hit at all).
I know for a fact that the immunity you get from dodge roll lasts slightly longer than the actual animation, so you are actually even able to cancel a light attack + an instant cast ability with a dodge roll without opening an window where someone could hit you.
BTW, why don't your brethren use cloak when you soul assault them ^^ ?
I guess I am a good Sorc then... lol, I won't complain about missing frags and snipes x) .
Oh and never assume a Sorc is unaware, I do what I can to get the bad NBs to attack me because they know they can't kill anyone in an open fight... Defensive Rune is your friend.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »
The only thing you can do is to cut anim an ability with a dodge roll.
Which is exactly what I'm talking about because it allows you to do damage while dodge rolling which is exactly what you said couldn't happen. The global cool down for abilities is around 1 second, which coincides nicely with the around 1 second immunity from dodge roll. You can actually weave your abilities with dodge rolls and attack literally just as fast if you were just spamming the ability.
If a dodge roll could heal me, or would allow me to deal damage while I dodge, YES ! The only dmg you are doing while spamming Hardened Ward is light/medium attacks, while dodge roll mitigates infinitely (literally) more damage than Hardened Ward and allows you to use ability attacks at maximum speed.
I've watched the video again and again in order to make sure that, yes, what you thought were dodge rolls were actually a dodge chance passive ability... He never, ever, used a dodge roll as a cut anim mean to deal damage while dodge rolling. And I can understand this, because it's quite a difficult move to execute.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »trimsic_ESO wrote: »
The only thing you can do is to cut anim an ability with a dodge roll.
Which is exactly what I'm talking about because it allows you to do damage while dodge rolling which is exactly what you said couldn't happen. The global cool down for abilities is around 1 second, which coincides nicely with the around 1 second immunity from dodge roll. You can actually weave your abilities with dodge rolls and attack literally just as fast if you were just spamming the ability.
If a dodge roll could heal me, or would allow me to deal damage while I dodge, YES ! The only dmg you are doing while spamming Hardened Ward is light/medium attacks, while dodge roll mitigates infinitely (literally) more damage than Hardened Ward and allows you to use ability attacks at maximum speed.
I've watched the video again and again in order to make sure that, yes, what you thought were dodge rolls were actually a dodge chance passive ability... He never, ever, used a dodge roll as a cut anim mean to deal damage while dodge rolling. And I can understand this, because it's quite a difficult move to execute.
He did dodge cancel, mostly executes, wich makes sense. And no, after doing it a few times it's seriously not hard at all.
(I mean, with some experience it's pretty easy, not that I just tried it the first time...)Edited by ToRelax on 8 May 2015 13:10DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
cozmon3c_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Ok after playing a magicka sorc and then switching to stam sorc I can safely say that only, and I mean only, magicka based sorcs have trouble hitting roll dodgers. Dk's use petrified, templars use jesus beam, and nightblades use ambush, concealed weapon and fear. Nightblades seem to be the most versatile class in the game imo. Wearing medium armor feels no different then wearing light against a nightblades burst.
Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
Youtube Channel - Leper
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos0 -
cozmon3c_ESO✭✭✭✭✭As a stam sorc I have trouble against some sorcs shields, only some though. The issue is they nerves light armor to much. So I propose increase light armors armor, Fix the overage damage on shields, then tone down the amount hardened ward can mitigate of damage, or scale off health (this will open more build options for sorcs stam and tank builds). But you cannot just flat out Nerf hardened ward with the way the game balance is right now, the field would be riddled with dead magicka sorcs.Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
Youtube Channel - Leper
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭People are still crying about sorc shields even as they "utilize" the nirn bug and excuse rampant exploiting?
Disabling the grass may improve performance.3 -
TheDokk✭I will take shields scaling from health if I get dodge roll and break out depleting from my highest stat, being stam or mag.[NOC]TURNAL- PvX OCEANIC COMMUNITY
www.nocturnalguild.com.au1 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭People are still crying about sorc shields even as they "utilize" the nirn bug and excuse rampant exploiting?
I don't know, are people crying about sorc shields? This thread is about more than sorcs... so...
and yeah.. nirnhoned armor needs fixed, the lack of urgency is disturbing.0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭I will take shields scaling from health if I get dodge roll and break out depleting from my highest stat, being stam or mag.
That sounds good.
I'd actually love it if they'd add another resource just for defensive moves like dodge block and break free, balance it out between stam and magicka
no more dodge rolling forever, no more blocking forever, break free will mean more.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I will take shields scaling from health if I get dodge roll and break out depleting from my highest stat, being stam or mag.
That sounds good.
I'd actually love it if they'd add another resource just for defensive moves like dodge block and break free, balance it out between stam and magicka
no more dodge rolling forever, no more blocking forever, break free will mean more.
Not a solution as stamina builds will suddenly lack in defense and for both stamina and magicka builds there wouldn't be a reason to invest in the other one.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭I will take shields scaling from health if I get dodge roll and break out depleting from my highest stat, being stam or mag.
That sounds good.
I'd actually love it if they'd add another resource just for defensive moves like dodge block and break free, balance it out between stam and magicka
no more dodge rolling forever, no more blocking forever, break free will mean more.
Not a solution as stamina builds will suddenly lack in defense and for both stamina and magicka builds there wouldn't be a reason to invest in the other one.
I could see magicka not wanting to invest in stamina but...
medium armor gives reduction in the cost of dodge.
heavy armor reduces block cost
and most stamina builds use some magicka, that wouldn't change.
0
