Make all damage shields in game scale with health.

LtCrunch

Tintinabula wrote: »

The point that I am getting from this thread is this. If you want to be a tank and have a lot of health you will sacrifice dps. If you want to be a glass cannon stamina user you will sacrifice shields based off of health. If you want to be a high dps sorc glass cannon with shields out the wazoo and be tanky as heck..max your magicka..you're good to go..there are no downsides or sacrifices.

Dodge monkeys are by no means "glass cannons".

jelliedsoup

people don't understand that if hardened ward was nerfed sorcs would be less skilled.

nerf fear and wrecking blow as these require no skill.

jelliedsoup

Brandalf wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Dodge roll is a one sec immunity..stop trying to compare it to a 20 second damage shield of 13K +..just stop..apples and watermelons.

That damage shield goes down in one or two hits and requires a recast constantly, it has to be used as often if not more often than dodge roll does. Complete immunity is much, much more powerful.

lol one or two hits by a zerg.

Zos does not play the game or wants everyone to do the hbf combo.

Erondil

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Dodge roll is a one sec immunity..stop trying to compare it to a 20 second damage shield of 13K +..just stop..apples and watermelons.

That damage shield goes down in one or two hits and requires a recast constantly, it has to be used as often if not more often than dodge roll does. Complete immunity is much, much more powerful.

lol one or two hits by a zerg.

Zos does not play the game or wants everyone to do the hbf combo.

One or two hits by a competent dps. Its a l2p issue I guess.

ToRelax

Domander wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Summary of this thread: Sorcerers defending their shield.

I mean..really...
Take a seat, sit back and think objective. Why on earth defence and offence should share same pool that can be stacked through hell?(this applies for dodge rolling also) Why? I really fail to understand. Is this really perfect design for your perspective?
I also can not decide whether you are so naive and blind to miss the point or you just ignore everything and defend this error of mechanics for all costs with lots of game of words and such.

If you complain about 15k hits from various sources, then the right thing to do is to adjust damage values and power stacking after the shield/dodge issue is done. And then maybe slightly more health preferably.
With this way, all classes will become equal in terms of CHOICES to going defensive or offensive or mixed. And give them nightblades a class shield already.

Do you think there is only sorcs who needs shields scaling on magicka? What about the magicka NB who has no class shield/heal? Read my other post.
Stamina has equally a lot of advantages stacking all in stamina like.. better vigor/rally (knowing that vigor is the best no class-heal in the game) more roll dodge and higher damages, so they have at the same time offence and defence stacking stamina. You cry because magicka spec dont have to run with 25+k health while stamina dont need it either. Seems legit.

Who's crying?

So you don't think a magicka nightblade with more health than magicka would benefit from things scaling with health?

Interesting.

Its not my point. Yes, magicka nightblade would benefit from stacking health, but the problem is that they will have to stack health -> magicka burst nb (full magicka/spell dmg) dead (knowing it has already been nerfed quite a lot in 1.6). On the other hand, a stamina nb will still be able to stack stamina without a look on his hp because his heals and dodgeroll depend of his main ressource. More than that, if he wants he can use shields which will be as effective as for a magicka build because it stacks on health.
So if you want to make all shields scaling on health, make dodgeroll using health or its not fair.

Anyway this thread is just a big QQ fest agaisnt hardened ward and sorc shieldstack, OP didnt even know that other classes can be magicka dps.

The OP plays every class.

However, the point you're trying to make is about annulment I guess? Healing ward already scales with health (missing health) It also benefits from spell power.

but....oh woe is the nightblade/sorc/anyone that would need to choose between survival and damage. Stamina is another discussion.

Healing Ward scales with % missing health, max magicka and spell damage.
Dragon Blood is a heal that scales with missing health.
It's nice if you play all classes but it seems that isn't always enough .

Yes, healing ward is also a heal, it should also scale with magicka. I count that spell as already scaling with health even it's "missing health". in terms of balance having less health will make this spell less efficient.


What the hell does dragon blood have to do with anything? Or your comment about classes?

It's like I said.
Healing Ward scales with neither maximum health, nor missing health. It scales with the percentage of missing health (plus max magicka and spell damage).
I used Dragon Blood as an example to show you the difference.
Don't worry, you're not the only one .

Domander

ToRelax wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Summary of this thread: Sorcerers defending their shield.

I mean..really...
Take a seat, sit back and think objective. Why on earth defence and offence should share same pool that can be stacked through hell?(this applies for dodge rolling also) Why? I really fail to understand. Is this really perfect design for your perspective?
I also can not decide whether you are so naive and blind to miss the point or you just ignore everything and defend this error of mechanics for all costs with lots of game of words and such.

If you complain about 15k hits from various sources, then the right thing to do is to adjust damage values and power stacking after the shield/dodge issue is done. And then maybe slightly more health preferably.
With this way, all classes will become equal in terms of CHOICES to going defensive or offensive or mixed. And give them nightblades a class shield already.

Do you think there is only sorcs who needs shields scaling on magicka? What about the magicka NB who has no class shield/heal? Read my other post.
Stamina has equally a lot of advantages stacking all in stamina like.. better vigor/rally (knowing that vigor is the best no class-heal in the game) more roll dodge and higher damages, so they have at the same time offence and defence stacking stamina. You cry because magicka spec dont have to run with 25+k health while stamina dont need it either. Seems legit.

Who's crying?

So you don't think a magicka nightblade with more health than magicka would benefit from things scaling with health?

Interesting.

Its not my point. Yes, magicka nightblade would benefit from stacking health, but the problem is that they will have to stack health -> magicka burst nb (full magicka/spell dmg) dead (knowing it has already been nerfed quite a lot in 1.6). On the other hand, a stamina nb will still be able to stack stamina without a look on his hp because his heals and dodgeroll depend of his main ressource. More than that, if he wants he can use shields which will be as effective as for a magicka build because it stacks on health.
So if you want to make all shields scaling on health, make dodgeroll using health or its not fair.

Anyway this thread is just a big QQ fest agaisnt hardened ward and sorc shieldstack, OP didnt even know that other classes can be magicka dps.

The OP plays every class.

However, the point you're trying to make is about annulment I guess? Healing ward already scales with health (missing health) It also benefits from spell power.

but....oh woe is the nightblade/sorc/anyone that would need to choose between survival and damage. Stamina is another discussion.

Healing Ward scales with % missing health, max magicka and spell damage.
Dragon Blood is a heal that scales with missing health.
It's nice if you play all classes but it seems that isn't always enough .

Yes, healing ward is also a heal, it should also scale with magicka. I count that spell as already scaling with health even it's "missing health". in terms of balance having less health will make this spell less efficient.


What the hell does dragon blood have to do with anything? Or your comment about classes?

It's like I said.
Healing Ward scales with neither maximum health, nor missing health. It scales with the percentage of missing health (plus max magicka and spell damage).
I used Dragon Blood as an example to show you the difference.
Don't worry, you're not the only one .

Yes, % of missing health, I know. The more health you have the easier it is to take advantage of this scaling.

I would consider this scaling with health for the sake of balance.

Cody

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and it turns into a "nerf sorc " thread.

what a shame.

It was essentially a nerf sorc thread to begin with. Nobody complains about Whitestrake's scaling off of your max stamina xD

because stamina users have no decent stamina shields:( there are already quite a few magicka based damage shields in this game. blazing shield, the DK shield, hardened ward, healing ward, annulment.....

LtCrunch

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and it turns into a "nerf sorc " thread.

what a shame.

It was essentially a nerf sorc thread to begin with. Nobody complains about Whitestrake's scaling off of your max stamina xD

because stamina users have no decent stamina shields:( there are already quite a few magicka based damage shields in this game. blazing shield, the DK shield, hardened ward, healing ward, annulment.....

The complaint here is that hardened ward scales off of your magicka. The other damage shields you listed do not. If you want a damage shield that costs stamina then use Bone shield. It's a bigger damage shield than the base sun shield(casting without enemies next to you).

Tintinabula

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and it turns into a "nerf sorc " thread.

what a shame.

It was essentially a nerf sorc thread to begin with. Nobody complains about Whitestrake's scaling off of your max stamina xD

because stamina users have no decent stamina shields:( there are already quite a few magicka based damage shields in this game. blazing shield, the DK shield, hardened ward, healing ward, annulment.....

The complaint here is that hardened ward scales off of your magicka. The other damage shields you listed do not. If you want a damage shield that costs stamina then use Bone shield. It's a bigger damage shield than the base sun shield(casting without enemies next to you).

Bone shield "costs" stamina..Its strength is based off health. You asked for ONE skill. I gave you three. While I am dodging and rolling I am not dps'n you down. After you cast hardened ward you can dps (at least a frag or velocious curse or overload or a heavy/ light attack) until you have to recast ward provided you're not being focused hard. Sure! I can roll dodge every second for ten seconds but I have done nothing to you in the process. Its strictly a defensive skill. On the other hand your ward takes a sec for you to cast and then you can go offense until it is gone. Thus the disparity. They just cant be compared.

ToRelax

Tintinabula wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and it turns into a "nerf sorc " thread.

what a shame.

It was essentially a nerf sorc thread to begin with. Nobody complains about Whitestrake's scaling off of your max stamina xD

because stamina users have no decent stamina shields:( there are already quite a few magicka based damage shields in this game. blazing shield, the DK shield, hardened ward, healing ward, annulment.....

The complaint here is that hardened ward scales off of your magicka. The other damage shields you listed do not. If you want a damage shield that costs stamina then use Bone shield. It's a bigger damage shield than the base sun shield(casting without enemies next to you).

Bone shield "costs" stamina..Its strength is based off health. You asked for ONE skill. I gave you three. While I am dodging and rolling I am not dps'n you down. After you cast hardened ward you can dps (at least a frag or velocious curse or overload or a heavy/ light attack) until you have to recast ward provided you're not being focused hard. Sure! I can roll dodge every second for ten seconds but I have done nothing to you in the process. Its strictly a defensive skill. On the other hand your ward takes a sec for you to cast and then you can go offense until it is gone. Thus the disparity. They just cant be compared.

You can animation cancel a light attack + instant cast skill with a dodge roll, I can only cancel a light attack with my Ward.

Varicite

ToRelax wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and it turns into a "nerf sorc " thread.

what a shame.

It was essentially a nerf sorc thread to begin with. Nobody complains about Whitestrake's scaling off of your max stamina xD

because stamina users have no decent stamina shields:( there are already quite a few magicka based damage shields in this game. blazing shield, the DK shield, hardened ward, healing ward, annulment.....

The complaint here is that hardened ward scales off of your magicka. The other damage shields you listed do not. If you want a damage shield that costs stamina then use Bone shield. It's a bigger damage shield than the base sun shield(casting without enemies next to you).

Bone shield "costs" stamina..Its strength is based off health. You asked for ONE skill. I gave you three. While I am dodging and rolling I am not dps'n you down. After you cast hardened ward you can dps (at least a frag or velocious curse or overload or a heavy/ light attack) until you have to recast ward provided you're not being focused hard. Sure! I can roll dodge every second for ten seconds but I have done nothing to you in the process. Its strictly a defensive skill. On the other hand your ward takes a sec for you to cast and then you can go offense until it is gone. Thus the disparity. They just cant be compared.

You can animation cancel a light attack + instant cast skill with a dodge roll, I can only cancel a light attack with my Ward.

Dodge roll lasts about 1 second (w/out set bonus, barely over a second w/ it). You can cancel attacks, yes, but there's going to be time where you are vulnerable.

Unless you're fighting a battle where someone is doing 11k+ damage every single attack, you have time to get attacks off in safety where you aren't going to take damage.

I'm not saying that situations where you're fighting outnumbered and are taking more than that much damage don't exist, but in every circumstance that you aren't being pounded THAT hard, the shield allows you breathing room to get attacks off that dodge rolling generally doesn't if you want to continue to avoid hp damage.

glak

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and it turns into a "nerf sorc " thread.

what a shame.

It was essentially a nerf sorc thread to begin with. Nobody complains about Whitestrake's scaling off of your max stamina xD

because stamina users have no decent stamina shields:( there are already quite a few magicka based damage shields in this game. blazing shield, the DK shield, hardened ward, healing ward, annulment.....

Note the difference between magicka-using and magicka-scaling.
Hardened Ward: uses magicka, scales with total magicka
Blazing Shield: uses magicka, scales with total health

Cody

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and it turns into a "nerf sorc " thread.

what a shame.

It was essentially a nerf sorc thread to begin with. Nobody complains about Whitestrake's scaling off of your max stamina xD

because stamina users have no decent stamina shields:( there are already quite a few magicka based damage shields in this game. blazing shield, the DK shield, hardened ward, healing ward, annulment.....

The complaint here is that hardened ward scales off of your magicka. The other damage shields you listed do not. If you want a damage shield that costs stamina then use Bone shield. It's a bigger damage shield than the base sun shield(casting without enemies next to you).

bone shield lasts 5 seconds and does not even work last i checked

LtCrunch

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and it turns into a "nerf sorc " thread.

what a shame.

It was essentially a nerf sorc thread to begin with. Nobody complains about Whitestrake's scaling off of your max stamina xD

because stamina users have no decent stamina shields:( there are already quite a few magicka based damage shields in this game. blazing shield, the DK shield, hardened ward, healing ward, annulment.....

The complaint here is that hardened ward scales off of your magicka. The other damage shields you listed do not. If you want a damage shield that costs stamina then use Bone shield. It's a bigger damage shield than the base sun shield(casting without enemies next to you).

bone shield lasts 5 seconds and does not even work last i checked

Bone shield was fixed in a recent patch and duration is mostly irrelevant, almost any damage shield is going to be completely eaten up within a second or two against a competent player or even quicker against a group.

LtCrunch

Tintinabula wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

and it turns into a "nerf sorc " thread.

what a shame.

It was essentially a nerf sorc thread to begin with. Nobody complains about Whitestrake's scaling off of your max stamina xD

because stamina users have no decent stamina shields:( there are already quite a few magicka based damage shields in this game. blazing shield, the DK shield, hardened ward, healing ward, annulment.....

The complaint here is that hardened ward scales off of your magicka. The other damage shields you listed do not. If you want a damage shield that costs stamina then use Bone shield. It's a bigger damage shield than the base sun shield(casting without enemies next to you).

Bone shield "costs" stamina..Its strength is based off health. You asked for ONE skill. I gave you three. While I am dodging and rolling I am not dps'n you down. After you cast hardened ward you can dps (at least a frag or velocious curse or overload or a heavy/ light attack) until you have to recast ward provided you're not being focused hard. Sure! I can roll dodge every second for ten seconds but I have done nothing to you in the process. Its strictly a defensive skill. On the other hand your ward takes a sec for you to cast and then you can go offense until it is gone. Thus the disparity. They just cant be compared.

Ward is going to go down in a comparable time to when the dodge roll immunity expires against a competent player. Not to mention the "bleed over" effect that happens with damage shields. By that I mean any damage that is over the value of your damage shield will be completely unmitigated. At least the possibility to CC then burst down a damage shield user exists. There is no such vulnerability for dodge rolling, not really. Sure a few abilities might ignore the immunity and a couple of them hit hard,but the options to burst down a dodge roller are very limited in comparison to a hardened ward user. If you can't see that then you're blind.

Tintinabula

with full stamina and stam regen food and armor i am able to get a good 7-8 dodge rolls in before i must squat and hide and regen. When being focused thats 8 -10 seconds you don't have to worry about me dpsn you. So..while I am trying to dodge roll to a new place to stay in range of you...make sure I don't dodge roll off of steps..or off a cliff and while not being completely impervious to all damage You on the other hand have your static ward PLUS annulment all based off magicka while you have the leisure to stand where you please thinking about LOS and also able to cast spells like velocious curse at me OR heavy attacks OR meteor OR detonation OR jesus beam which I cant dodge. You are afforded the luxury of eating those with your shields (because your shields will most likely eat a lot of them) WHILE YOU CAST AT ME or Bolt escape away or to me to throw down prison.

The disparity between the two is so glaring its laughable.

P.S. I HAD to add detonation. After being hit with it for upwards of 15K +(from a sorc) I had to add it.

LtCrunch

Tintinabula wrote: »

with full stamina and stam regen food and armor i am able to get a good 7-8 dodge rolls in before i must squat and hide and regen. When being focused thats 8 -10 seconds you don't have to worry about me dpsn you. So..while I am trying to dodge roll to a new place to stay in range of you...make sure I don't dodge roll off of steps..or off a cliff and while not being completely impervious to all damage You on the other hand have your static ward PLUS annulment all based off magicka while you have the leisure to stand where you please thinking about LOS and also able to cast spells like velocious curse at me OR heavy attacks OR meteor OR detonation OR jesus beam which I cant dodge. You are afforded the luxury of eating those with your shields (because your shields will most likely eat a lot of them) WHILE YOU CAST AT ME or Bolt escape away or to me to throw down prison.

The disparity between the two is so glaring its laughable.

P.S I HAD to add detonation. After being hit with it for upwards of 15K +(from a sorc) I had to add it.

If my ward is eaten quickly(which it always will be against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between casts. It's clear you've never player the Sorc class at a high level against other high level players. All ward does is give you that extra second or less to decide what your next move should be and execute it. No different to dodge roll. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're clamoring for a nerf of. Dodge roll is a much more powerful mitigation tool tha hardened ward, that's an objective fact. It's like when people *** and moan about DKs being OP even to this day.

Cody

Brandalf wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

with full stamina and stam regen food and armor i am able to get a good 7-8 dodge rolls in before i must squat and hide and regen. When being focused thats 8 -10 seconds you don't have to worry about me dpsn you. So..while I am trying to dodge roll to a new place to stay in range of you...make sure I don't dodge roll off of steps..or off a cliff and while not being completely impervious to all damage You on the other hand have your static ward PLUS annulment all based off magicka while you have the leisure to stand where you please thinking about LOS and also able to cast spells like velocious curse at me OR heavy attacks OR meteor OR detonation OR jesus beam which I cant dodge. You are afforded the luxury of eating those with your shields (because your shields will most likely eat a lot of them) WHILE YOU CAST AT ME or Bolt escape away or to me to throw down prison.

The disparity between the two is so glaring its laughable.

P.S I HAD to add detonation. After being hit with it for upwards of 15K +(from a sorc) I had to add it.

If my ward is eaten quickly(which it always will be against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between casts. It's clear you've never player the Sorc class at a high level against other high level players. All ward does is give you that extra second or less to decide what your next move should be and execute it. No different to dodge roll. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're clamoring for a nerf of. Dodge roll is a much more powerful mitigation tool tha hardened ward, that's an objective fact.

both can be done a ridiculous amount of times(damage shield stacking in general, not just hardened ward) both are due to broken game mechanics.

both need fixing.

LtCrunch

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

with full stamina and stam regen food and armor i am able to get a good 7-8 dodge rolls in before i must squat and hide and regen. When being focused thats 8 -10 seconds you don't have to worry about me dpsn you. So..while I am trying to dodge roll to a new place to stay in range of you...make sure I don't dodge roll off of steps..or off a cliff and while not being completely impervious to all damage You on the other hand have your static ward PLUS annulment all based off magicka while you have the leisure to stand where you please thinking about LOS and also able to cast spells like velocious curse at me OR heavy attacks OR meteor OR detonation OR jesus beam which I cant dodge. You are afforded the luxury of eating those with your shields (because your shields will most likely eat a lot of them) WHILE YOU CAST AT ME or Bolt escape away or to me to throw down prison.

The disparity between the two is so glaring its laughable.

P.S I HAD to add detonation. After being hit with it for upwards of 15K +(from a sorc) I had to add it.

If my ward is eaten quickly(which it always will be against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between casts. It's clear you've never player the Sorc class at a high level against other high level players. All ward does is give you that extra second or less to decide what your next move should be and execute it. No different to dodge roll. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're clamoring for a nerf of. Dodge roll is a much more powerful mitigation tool tha hardened ward, that's an objective fact.

both can be done a ridiculous amount of times(damage shield stacking in general, not just hardened ward) both are due to broken game mechanics.

both need fixing.

Saying they ar e broken mechanics is like saying a Templar using breath of life or a DK using GDB is broken. Damage shields are preventative healing, nothing more. I can't think of a legitimate defense for dodge roll immunity(even though I'm sure one exists). Either way they're tools give to each class/playstyle to prolong fights. If we didn't have these types of tools Cyrodiil would feel like COD:medieval times edition.

Tintinabula

If I have to dodge roll 7 -8 times(which I will always have to do against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between rolls. It's clear you've never played stamina class at a high level against other high level players. All dodge does is give you that extra second or less to dodge and roll. Very different to wards plus annulment. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're debating. A static 100% mitigation shield based off of your main stat is a much more powerful mitigation tool than a one second PARTIAL immunity, that's an objective fact.

See what I did there.

Cody

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

with full stamina and stam regen food and armor i am able to get a good 7-8 dodge rolls in before i must squat and hide and regen. When being focused thats 8 -10 seconds you don't have to worry about me dpsn you. So..while I am trying to dodge roll to a new place to stay in range of you...make sure I don't dodge roll off of steps..or off a cliff and while not being completely impervious to all damage You on the other hand have your static ward PLUS annulment all based off magicka while you have the leisure to stand where you please thinking about LOS and also able to cast spells like velocious curse at me OR heavy attacks OR meteor OR detonation OR jesus beam which I cant dodge. You are afforded the luxury of eating those with your shields (because your shields will most likely eat a lot of them) WHILE YOU CAST AT ME or Bolt escape away or to me to throw down prison.

The disparity between the two is so glaring its laughable.

P.S I HAD to add detonation. After being hit with it for upwards of 15K +(from a sorc) I had to add it.

If my ward is eaten quickly(which it always will be against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between casts. It's clear you've never player the Sorc class at a high level against other high level players. All ward does is give you that extra second or less to decide what your next move should be and execute it. No different to dodge roll. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're clamoring for a nerf of. Dodge roll is a much more powerful mitigation tool tha hardened ward, that's an objective fact.

both can be done a ridiculous amount of times(damage shield stacking in general, not just hardened ward) both are due to broken game mechanics.

both need fixing.

Saying they ar e broken mechanics is like saying a Templar using breath of life or a DK using GDB is broken. Damage shields are preventative healing, nothing more. I can't think of a legitimate defense for dodge roll immunity(even though I'm sure one exists). Either way they're tools give to each class/playstyle to prolong fights. If we didn't have these types of tools Cyrodiil would feel like COD:medieval times edition.

i did not say damage shields and dodge rolling were broken, I said the general mechanics are broken, such as lack of softcaps, regan rates, etc.

Domander

Tintinabula wrote: »

If I have to dodge roll 7 -8 times(which I will always have to do against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between rolls. It's clear you've never played stamina class at a high level against other high level players. All dodge does is give you that extra second or less to dodge and roll. Very different to wards plus annulment. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're debating. A static 100% mitigation shield based off of your main stat is a much more powerful mitigation tool than a one second PARTIAL immunity, that's an objective fact.

See what I did there.

haha, oh snap!

I agree though

Hardened ward on my sorc absorbs over 13k damage... what hits that hard? (non crit) what hits that hard and is instant like hardened ward?

You know why noone complains about any other class shield stacking? because their damage shields are balanced.

That said, I still think annulment should also scale with health, I think it should also work vs all damage.

ToRelax

Tintinabula wrote: »

If I have to dodge roll 7 -8 times(which I will always have to do against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between rolls. It's clear you've never played stamina class at a high level against other high level players. All dodge does is give you that extra second or less to dodge and roll. Very different to wards plus annulment. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're debating. A static 100% mitigation shield based off of your main stat is a much more powerful mitigation tool than a one second PARTIAL immunity, that's an objective fact.

See what I did there.

If you can only roll 7-8 times with a stamina build you're not built for it and shouldn't complain about another class optimizing their magicka based defense.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Tintinabula

It's funny how someone tries to attack me personally again when I was being conservative with my approximations. Usually being conservative with what you say you can do is better than over exaggerating. Im a DK with full stam in stam armor and roughly 15 points in stam reduction CP and another 30 in stam regen cp. No. I didn't log into the game and count how many times I could stam roll while doing nothing else..lol..

watch that one Domander..they'll get your thread closed.

Itoq

Brandalf wrote: »

duration is mostly irrelevant, almost any damage shield is going to be completely eaten up within a second or two against a competent player

I would argue that shield duration is extremely relevant. Not only is it potentially important when stacking shields, but there are so many scenarios in pvp where not having to refresh a shield due to time passed is a huge advantage.

Xael

Does anyone else notice the same legion of imbeciles post in every one of these threads? It's so commonplace it's predictable.




My shields were up.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

LtCrunch

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

with full stamina and stam regen food and armor i am able to get a good 7-8 dodge rolls in before i must squat and hide and regen. When being focused thats 8 -10 seconds you don't have to worry about me dpsn you. So..while I am trying to dodge roll to a new place to stay in range of you...make sure I don't dodge roll off of steps..or off a cliff and while not being completely impervious to all damage You on the other hand have your static ward PLUS annulment all based off magicka while you have the leisure to stand where you please thinking about LOS and also able to cast spells like velocious curse at me OR heavy attacks OR meteor OR detonation OR jesus beam which I cant dodge. You are afforded the luxury of eating those with your shields (because your shields will most likely eat a lot of them) WHILE YOU CAST AT ME or Bolt escape away or to me to throw down prison.

The disparity between the two is so glaring its laughable.

P.S I HAD to add detonation. After being hit with it for upwards of 15K +(from a sorc) I had to add it.

If my ward is eaten quickly(which it always will be against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between casts. It's clear you've never player the Sorc class at a high level against other high level players. All ward does is give you that extra second or less to decide what your next move should be and execute it. No different to dodge roll. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're clamoring for a nerf of. Dodge roll is a much more powerful mitigation tool tha hardened ward, that's an objective fact.

both can be done a ridiculous amount of times(damage shield stacking in general, not just hardened ward) both are due to broken game mechanics.

both need fixing.

Saying they ar e broken mechanics is like saying a Templar using breath of life or a DK using GDB is broken. Damage shields are preventative healing, nothing more. I can't think of a legitimate defense for dodge roll immunity(even though I'm sure one exists). Either way they're tools give to each class/playstyle to prolong fights. If we didn't have these types of tools Cyrodiil would feel like COD:medieval times edition.

i did not say damage shields and dodge rolling were broken, I said the general mechanics are broken, such as lack of softcaps, regan rates, etc.

Ahh,fair enough.

LtCrunch

Itoq wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

duration is mostly irrelevant, almost any damage shield is going to be completely eaten up within a second or two against a competent player

I would argue that shield duration is extremely relevant. Not only is it potentially important when stacking shields, but there are so many scenarios in pvp where not having to refresh a shield due to time passed is a huge advantage.

Shield duration only matters when you're using it as an anti-ganking tool, in combat it's inconsequential shield stacking or not.

LtCrunch

Domander wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

If I have to dodge roll 7 -8 times(which I will always have to do against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between rolls. It's clear you've never played stamina class at a high level against other high level players. All dodge does is give you that extra second or less to dodge and roll. Very different to wards plus annulment. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're debating. A static 100% mitigation shield based off of your main stat is a much more powerful mitigation tool than a one second PARTIAL immunity, that's an objective fact.

See what I did there.

haha, oh snap!

I agree though

Hardened ward on my sorc absorbs over 13k damage... what hits that hard? (non crit) what hits that hard and is instant like hardened ward?

You know why noone complains about any other class shield stacking? because their damage shields are balanced.

That said, I still think annulment should also scale with health, I think it should also work vs all damage.

You're joking right? I can't even count off-hand how many abilities can eat up a 13k damage shield with one hit, and if we include light/medium attack weaving than the list will be even longer.

Domander

Brandalf wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

If I have to dodge roll 7 -8 times(which I will always have to do against competent players) I simply don't have time to deal any meaningful damage between rolls. It's clear you've never played stamina class at a high level against other high level players. All dodge does is give you that extra second or less to dodge and roll. Very different to wards plus annulment. This discussion is becoming tiresome, you clearly lack any real experience with things which you're debating. A static 100% mitigation shield based off of your main stat is a much more powerful mitigation tool than a one second PARTIAL immunity, that's an objective fact.

See what I did there.

haha, oh snap!

I agree though

Hardened ward on my sorc absorbs over 13k damage... what hits that hard? (non crit) what hits that hard and is instant like hardened ward?

You know why noone complains about any other class shield stacking? because their damage shields are balanced.

That said, I still think annulment should also scale with health, I think it should also work vs all damage.

You're joking right? I can't even count off-hand how many abilities can eat up a 13k damage shield with one hit, and if we include light/medium attack weaving than the list will be even longer.

Kinda vague

why don't you name some of those abilities that you can't, for some reason, count.

and I dare you to name one that is instant and spammable like hardened ward

although

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]