And They Say That Bow is Fine as is

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Why should people with low health meaning they take fewer hits expect to survive an ambush?!?? Yes new players would be awesome be not having enough health helps no ones and taxes all near by healers (heals go to the lowers health player in range)

Yes as base damage snipe hits much harder then crushing shock but you can launch off a few of then in the time span it takes one snipe and my snipe normally hit around 700-1000 but does hit hard SOMETIMES, but according to my death recap that's about the same Crystal fragments and all other powers with a cast time

Look I got you point some people can drop insane power with a snipe but that's not every single archer with 70% of the people in PvP being casters that can spam a class shield (exception being Nightblades because we don't have one) + plus a Healing Ward then doing burst, range physical attacks will become the most hated build just cause it works so well

I know you may not except this and most likely most people will hate this statement but with powers that increase your maximum magic powers that return magic and the sheer power casters have they should have to fight with Wards and Magic shields up as a trade off for all the magic they can put down

Now as a magic build you may not notice it because you have high spell resist but as a stamina Build I get nuked by magic (burst then down and then up goes shield after shield) all the time a fair trade-off for having so much power is being very weak against physical attack yes some peoples snipe builds are op but same can be done with any power remember as an Archer my base damage for snipe is 685 the power is no OP the pure Glass cannon launching it is

You missed my point when I said that snipe takes those shields down and snipers can still 1-2 shot people even with shields up. I know that if you go glass cannon you make that sacrifice, I also even stated that these sort of builds have to make those sacrifices; however, they should still NOT BE KILLED INSTANTLY in Cyrodiil just because you all can't accept that your weapon is so damn OP.

Tell me of an instance where a crushing shock hit someone for that much, please, I'll wait for screenshots.

You missed all my points altogether and are defending a broken skill. Nothing should hit for that much damage. Period.

And if you think you should have the "right to kill new players in Cyrodiil" in one shot and discourage them from ever coming back in, you're definitely apart of the massive problem we have in PvP at this time. gj.

I'm not going to continue to type out thorough explanations to explain my points when you just respond with idiotic posts like this one.

I hope you're not DC so I can kill you over and over and over again.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2015

I got your point of the op builds the one who do it to that level are ridiculous but Archers have to go glass cannon I have never died to one Crushing Shock but I have died to Crushing Shocks and light Attacks spammed over and over and over again

I personal have never won a one on one vs a caster unless I popped a pot or dropped an ultimate just cause I have to use my stamina to do every thing depending completely on my regeneration and potions to get it back where caster just heavy attack restro

You think getting sniped makes people quit PvP try fighting someone that will just gain 30% of their resources back with one heavy attacks then drop a healing damage shield till you have nothing left as a stamina build you gank or run a group cause stamina vs a caster and their near infinite magic you don't stand a chance

Like at the highest Sustainable DPS Magic Nightblades, highest tank magic dragon night biggest heals Magic Templar obviously magic is the is all be all and with block casting it's near impossible so before you get to frustrated with stamina cannons take a second to think of why the build is necessary

Germtrocity · March 2015

@kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
If you are complaining about never winning a 1v1 vs a caster, then perhaps that is because you personally are just not a good player? I know quite a few stamina builds that will dish out serious damage and defeat many magicka users in 1v1 fights, it comes down to player skill - something I suppose a snipe spammer would be unfamiliar with.

And casters by far do not have infinite magicka, all your complaints arise from skilled magicka users that know how to conserve their resources. You never hear about a stamina build complaining about a bad magicka user having infinite magicka because guess what, they were a free kill for you because they wasted it all so fast.

On the flip side, everyone complains about bow and snipe because it is so easy to use. Even the bad snipers are still one of the deadliest targets in cyrodiil, though they may be unskilled, it is still much more dangerous than anyone else that doesn't know what they are doing or are unskilled. Getting hit by a snipe is possibly one of the worst things that can happen to you because it deals so much damage and will just be sniped continuously unless you can pick out the person sniping you with no distinct trail from max range (35+ meters).

Unskilled and trash players will always defend their completely OP thing because it is the only reason they manage to get any kills, and without it they would go back to being free AP for players that actually have skill.

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

Germtrocity wrote: »

@kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
If you are complaining about never winning a 1v1 vs a caster, then perhaps that is because you personally are just not a good player? I know quite a few stamina builds that will dish out serious damage and defeat many magicka users in 1v1 fights, it comes down to player skill - something I suppose a snipe spammer would be unfamiliar with.

And casters by far do not have infinite magicka, all your complaints arise from skilled magicka users that know how to conserve their resources. You never hear about a stamina build complaining about a bad magicka user having infinite magicka because guess what, they were a free kill for you because they wasted it all so fast.

On the flip side, everyone complains about bow and snipe because it is so easy to use. Even the bad snipers are still one of the deadliest targets in cyrodiil, though they may be unskilled, it is still much more dangerous than anyone else that doesn't know what they are doing or are unskilled. Getting hit by a snipe is possibly one of the worst things that can happen to you because it deals so much damage and will just be sniped continuously unless you can pick out the person sniping you with no distinct trail from max range (35+ meters).

Unskilled and trash players will always defend their completely OP thing because it is the only reason they manage to get any kills, and without it they would go back to being free AP for players that actually have skill.

It's okay babe, we always get our revenge anyways.

Our Bowmonkey documentary will be coming soon, and we'll show off all these idiotic bowspammers for what they really are: a word that starts with a p and ends with a y.

Joy_Division · March 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I got your point of the op builds the one who do it to that level are ridiculous but Archers have to go glass cannon I have never died to one Crushing Shock but I have died to Crushing Shocks and light Attacks spammed over and over and over again

I personal have never won a one on one vs a caster unless I popped a pot or dropped an ultimate just cause I have to use my stamina to do every thing depending completely on my regeneration and potions to get it back where caster just heavy attack restro

You think getting sniped makes people quit PvP try fighting someone that will just gain 30% of their resources back with one heavy attacks then drop a healing damage shield till you have nothing left as a stamina build you gank or run a group cause stamina vs a caster and their near infinite magic you don't stand a chance

Like at the highest Sustainable DPS Magic Nightblades, highest tank magic dragon night biggest heals Magic Templar obviously magic is the is all be all and with block casting it's near impossible so before you get to frustrated with stamina cannons take a second to think of why the build is necessary

I think you need to diversify your build.

And learn about magic users. They dont get 30% of their resources back from heavy attacks. There are not "tons of powers the returns magic or ups your max magic." In fact there isn't one. Unless you count spell symmetry which few people use (and none in combat) because it erases 25% of your health.

This isn't May. There are many strong Stamina builds out there and archers who can win without relying on snipe.

Kuro1n · March 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think you need to diversify your build.

And learn about magic users. They dont get 30% of their resources back from heavy attacks. There are not "tons of powers the returns magic or ups your max magic." In fact there isn't one. Unless you count spell symmetry which few people use (and none in combat) because it erases 25% of your health.

This isn't May. There are many strong Stamina builds out there and archers who can win without relying on snipe.

Many strong stamina builds? Can you give me some strong NB stam builds that have enough healing and other things to actually survive a competent templar or a DK in close combat?

Germtrocity wrote: »

Kuro1n wrote: »

And Germtrocity you still didn't respond to my question, how much chance do these FEW players with under 2500 HP stand versus the absolute top DKs on the servers?

I can tell you with my build which is pretty squishy ~2800 hp and no impen the highest damage I've taken from snipe was 1850 in one hit. If you are a vampire and play in light armor and don't stack impen then you just have to blame yourself when the arrows starts raining down upon you.

Firstly, I think it is funny how you only mention "absolute top DKs" - this just points to the fact that even under 2500 HP people can last for a while unless it is simply a top tier DK, while on the other hand it can be a sniper of any skill level (they are mostly trash players anyway) that can just press one button from stealth and get easy kills.
And to add on to this point, when I was only v5 on my DC sorcerer, I was having only slight trouble dealing with the DKs that I came across. It was the snipers that gave me the most trouble sniping me from stealth with no skill because I only had roughly 2200 HP at that level. This just points out to the fact that health only becomes an issue when there is the chance of being one-shot, which should not be a thing due to the current TTK being very slow for the most part, other than the brokenly powerful bows.

And don't use the vampire argument, because I have not been a vampire in over 4 months on my main sorcerer, and never on any of my other characters.

I write absolute top DKs because the guy who sniped you I suppose is one of the top snipers. He hits harder than the majority of snipers. I wrote absolute top DKs to make you bring that *** argument out into the open.

Top tier snipers will kill you if you don't pay attention and he snipes you on your horse, top tier DKs will kill you even if you pay attention if he sees you as a newer player which was what we were discussing there. So yeah, there is that. Fact is that the DK can take down the new player and his 3 friends without breaking a sweat (especially if they have ranged builds) while if there is 4 players versus a sniper he is really dead meat. Now the trash players are the ones who don't pay any attention and simply dies time after time to snipe and other things that can simply be avoided by holding down a single button which your hand rests on the whole day anyway.

The reason however that snipers targets people at lower ranks or weaker targets is BECAUSE they can't kill the DKs, shooting a DK is simply not a viable strategy as they will put up scales and heal themselves and there is NOTHING the sniper can do about it except getting in close which means dying.

Personally I am very happy to see reflective scales getting nerfed to 4 projectiles although I think that is too high as well, 3 projectiles would have been optimal imo. That way they can completely reflect the damage of a full snipe salvo with 3 attacks while not being able to reflect that of two players. Furthermore I am happy to see 2H weapons and stamina getting buffed in general, I think that will make more people pick other choices than bow and hopefully make the battlefield more interesting.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2015

Far from a trash player I always end the camp in the top 20 and lower Nightblades and to clear up a point yes heavy attacks with a restoration staff returns 30% it's a passive don't troll cause no way in hell you don't that

1) I have won fights 1v1 casters when they don't have a restoration staff cause no amount of "resource management" makes sense when they just Healing Ward (x point damage shied, that gets stronger the lower your health is) > heavy attack > x > x > healing ward > heavy attack

2)stamina builds don't have the luxury of block casting we need our stamina to fight and roll and CC, where as 99% of casters have one hand shield just for block casting that fight turns to me just spamming light attacks so I make them burn out all their stamina

3) max magica
•High Elves (most casters go Altmer) Gift of Magnus increase max magica
12%

•Bretons (the other caster race) Gift of Magnus increase max magica 10%

•Mages Guild 1.6 (today)
Inner fire increase max magica 2% (at the first level have it leveled up yet not a caster but I would 5% if you just add 1% per level
•passive Magica Controller 2% max magica and Magica recovery for each Mages guild power on your bar

•Undaunted mettle Increase your Max Health, Stamina and Magicka by 2% per type of Armor (Heavy, Medium, Light) that you have equipped.

•And of course the casting class
Sorcerer Bound Aegis increase max magica 5%
That's whole lot of Max magica increases and they stack except for the racial bonuses obviously

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO · March 2015

In what situations are really complaining about the bow here? Complaining about the bow for ganking, I think, is stupid. There are plenty of possibilities for good gank setups, and the point of them is to do massive burst damage to an individual target without being noticed too soon. It's a playstyle where you max damage and pick targets carefully. Complaining about the bow's power in a ganking situation is silly--you hate gankers in general, not just the bow there.

In keep warfare? Here, I think, there is more room for discussion. In keep warfare, these 2500 snipes, which are rare to begin with, are even rarer because it's a much more chaotic battleground. You need to be constantly aware of who is around you and know of other counter-attack points that could get you killed.

Not to mention, you need to be even more discerning with target selection. A flappy flap at the wrong time spells disaster for the caster. And then, I can't tell you how many times I've tried to Snipe people, with the first shot from stealth, then hitting them more, has resulted in the health bars seemingly not even moving, to the point where if I don't see progress after 2 Snipes, I pick a different target.

Furthermore, stealth attacks are also much rarer in Keep Warfare because finding a place to stealth from and attack is also very difficult unless you're defending the outer/inner walls (and even then you need to be careful). Out of stealth, really, how bad is snipe? They stopped the debuff stacking, which absolutely needed to happen, but Snipe gets spammed as much as anyone's crushing shock. Maybe Snipe does hit harder overall, I don't know, but the Snipe setup out of stealth doesn't allow me to 1vX people. ***, I can barely 1v1 people because of shield stacking and flappy flaps.

They nerfed Snipe damage
They nerfed stealth damage in PvP
They decreased Snipe cast time

And some how we now have an overpowered skill? I honestly preferred the skill with better damage and the 1.8 cast time because it felt more like sniping then. The most I could concede about this skill now is that a small increase in cast time could be warranted.

I know this is a PvP section, but you can't pretend PvE doesn't exist, which is why cast time was dropped to begin with, to allow for bow dps to be more viable in end game content.

And if it matters, I've been a Bow/DW DK user since Beta.

tonemd · March 2015

Question: Does the OP actually have over 4000 HP?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2015

So long as he had 2500 he should be good cause battle spirt gives you 500 more points to health plus food buffs

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

tonemd wrote: »

Question: Does the OP actually have over 4000 HP?

Of course he doesn't have over 4k health.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2015

I have 3000 with no armor enchans so it's can be easily done with Cyrodiils Battle Spirit bonus

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I have 3000 with no armor enchans so it's can be easily done with Cyrodiils Battle Spirit bonus

You really don't understand anything about a magicka user build do you....

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2015

Played around with magic but negate was real annoying, went back to stamina and 2200 stamina with blue glyphs on blue armor is good waited till today (1.6) to go gold so that will improve but I cant imagine you needomh my then 2200-2500 of your resource pool

JaJaLuka · March 2015

Germtrocity wrote: »

@kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
If you are complaining about never winning a 1v1 vs a caster, then perhaps that is because you personally are just not a good player? I know quite a few stamina builds that will dish out serious damage and defeat many magicka users in 1v1 fights, it comes down to player skill - something I suppose a snipe spammer would be unfamiliar with.

And casters by far do not have infinite magicka, all your complaints arise from skilled magicka users that know how to conserve their resources. You never hear about a stamina build complaining about a bad magicka user having infinite magicka because guess what, they were a free kill for you because they wasted it all so fast.

On the flip side, everyone complains about bow and snipe because it is so easy to use. Even the bad snipers are still one of the deadliest targets in cyrodiil, though they may be unskilled, it is still much more dangerous than anyone else that doesn't know what they are doing or are unskilled. Getting hit by a snipe is possibly one of the worst things that can happen to you because it deals so much damage and will just be sniped continuously unless you can pick out the person sniping you with no distinct trail from max range (35+ meters).

Unskilled and trash players will always defend their completely OP thing because it is the only reason they manage to get any kills, and without it they would go back to being free AP for players that actually have skill.

I used to use bow and snipe before it became overpowered and got many kills with it, it was fine the way it was and I was a total scrub. So my question to ZoS is this; is it ok the way it is now?

If you want PvE players to be able to deal ranged single target damage on par with casters I'm sure you can find better options available.

Firstly however put a dead zone in... it's stupid the way a nub NB can stealth up at close range mid fight snipe and then go back to fighting you, my potions bar is crap (along with sh*tty Aus internet speed) and changing to detect potions mid fight is harder and sometimes slower than their entire stealth/snipe combo... it's a poor design.

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Played around with magic but negate was real annoying, went back to stamina and 2200 stamina with blue glyphs on blue armor is good waited till today (1.6) to go gold so that will improve but I cant imagine you needomh my then 2200-2500 of your resource pool

Lol, like I said, you don't understand magicka builds.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2015

If you need more resources then that then that's poor resource management all most all casters off hand or main a restoration staff so a heavy every few cast should be more then enough but if you want to sacrifice health for more magic then it should be a SACRIFICE you can't have both a deep magic pool with no armor and low and hope to survive against stealth physical attacks

Sensesfail13 · March 2015

Snipers wet dream anymore. *DK tank hanging up his hat* so long pvp tanking have fun era of the bow.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2015

Ok stop the QQing the bow was nerfed 20% now happy? It already drop your weapon power cause of the range difference now all bow attacks hit for shot which mean snipes from max range in slealth will be the way ever ganker goes now.
With a 1 second cast time in seige most player cast and back away from the edge before the snipe can be casted so just with for the next burst damage gank build cause now you will die in three seconds in Melee range instead of 40m away stamina Ambush > Soul Harvest > Shadowy Disguise > Stamina Surprise Attack > Impale when my guild wasn't on to raid I ganked as I normal do and the "fights" are just as short but now I don't now to change to magic to do it cause my favorite too powers are now stamina based.

So pre-type your post about stamina Ambush and Soul Harvest please and thank you

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Ok stop the QQing the bow was nerfed 20% now happy? It already drop your weapon power cause of the range difference now all bow attacks hit for shot which mean snipes from max range in slealth will be the way ever ganker goes now.
With a 1 second cast time in seige most player cast and back away from the edge before the snipe can be casted so just with for the next burst damage gank build cause now you will die in three seconds in Melee range instead of 40m away stamina Ambush > Soul Harvest > Shadowy Disguise > Stamina Surprise Attack > Impale when my guild wasn't on to raid I ganked as I normal do and the "fights" are just as short but now I don't now to change to magic to do it cause my favorite too powers are now stamina based.

So pre-type your post about stamina Ambush and Soul Harvest please and thank you

We'll have a full review on how bow treats casters when we get back ingame tomorrow for you.

Vizier · March 2015

Germtrocity wrote: »

Kuro1n wrote: »

And Germtrocity you still didn't respond to my question, how much chance do these FEW players with under 2500 HP stand versus the absolute top DKs on the servers?

I can tell you with my build which is pretty squishy ~2800 hp and no impen the highest damage I've taken from snipe was 1850 in one hit. If you are a vampire and play in light armor and don't stack impen then you just have to blame yourself when the arrows starts raining down upon you.

Firstly, I think it is funny how you only mention "absolute top DKs" - this just points to the fact that even under 2500 HP people can last for a while unless it is simply a top tier DK, while on the other hand it can be a sniper of any skill level (they are mostly trash players anyway) that can just press one button from stealth and get easy kills.
And to add on to this point, when I was only v5 on my DC sorcerer, I was having only slight trouble dealing with the DKs that I came across. It was the snipers that gave me the most trouble sniping me from stealth with no skill because I only had roughly 2200 HP at that level. This just points out to the fact that health only becomes an issue when there is the chance of being one-shot, which should not be a thing due to the current TTK being very slow for the most part, other than the brokenly powerful bows.

And don't use the vampire argument, because I have not been a vampire in over 4 months on my main sorcerer, and never on any of my other characters.

The sniper you showed in your death recap isn't just anyone that picked up a bow and you know it. He has a very specific build and play style with skill buffs and pots at work. I know because I've been running with Softpaws for awhile. If you don't build for it you are NOT going to get that kind of damage. You would have been lucky to get a 1k crit (old system).

Kuro1n shouldn't have spoken of "top" DK's because you don't need to be a top DK to WTF PWN and Wreck Face. 1 skill utterly negates Bow Builds (scales) and shields keep you from being crit on, The lowliest DK pops GDB, flaps his wings and it's game over. If you got popped because a shot was timed, between wing flapping or you didn't have the presence of mind to not ride your horse full tilt right up to a keep, that's your problem bud.

Quit acting like anyone can pick up a bow and PWN. It doesn't just happen. Being a glass cannon that inserts into the action, is deadly and illusive is far from easy. And anyone interested in learning the joys of Gank warfare PM or email me in game and we'll get you sorted when we go out. NA-Thornblade - DC Cov. @Vizier

Good grief the QQ would be funny if it wasn't so sad. folks complaining about the "horse simulator" then complaining about being shot off their horse. Try getting off and beating feet. Go stealth....OH your stamina depletes too fast? Hmmm. sounds like a personal problem. Invest in Stamina then. It's crazy how folks want the game to be diverse in builds and play styles then turn around and put those down the play a different style because it's not a stand your ground in your face toe to toe gruntfest. "the bad players can just pick up a bow?" LOL what?

Stam NB are finally coming into their own as stealth assassins and the QQ is deafening. I suppose it was to be expected.

Robotmafia · March 2015

Vizier wrote: »

Stam NB are finally coming into their own as stealth assassins and the QQ is deafening. I suppose it was to be expected.

Amen!

Yes anyone can pick up a bow and shoot out of stealth... but truly being an assassin, choosing your target wisely, choosing the moment to strike, whilst surrounded by the enemy takes skill and experience because you also have to know your enemy and what he can do... and as long as other builds and classes can 1v5 around all day, it is hardly the build to complain this much about...

It is a different approach than just sword and boarding at the front lines... and I say to each their own... the battlefield needs casters, healers, tanks, melee dps, assassins and archers... diversity adds to the fun and the occasional surprise gank while riding through the forest is just a part of the danger one faces Cyrodiil and most any PVP environment..