And They Say That Bow is Fine as is

Roechacca

Wahee wrote: »

In 1.6 my bow heavy attack hits 500 harder than snipe. That's non crit. Sneak attacks scale even higher. No one will use snipe for anything but the heal debuff once 1.6 hits and people figure it out. You might as well stop arguing about snipe, it'll be useless soon enough.

When will this emotional roller coaster end !

Mauz

Ackwalan wrote: »

You are forgetting about gravity. At long range an arrows path is arched, when it reaches it pinnacle height and starts its downward approach, gravity gives the arrow extra punch. Depending on the type of arrow and how much arch is used the arrow can have 16X more kinetic energy then at point blank range.

Hope this is kind of ironic.

An arrow has most power at release. Assuming you are standing on a flat plain it loses the same amount of energy in the climb phase than it gains when falling down. If you remove energy lost by friction it actually has less energy when it hits. The only way to gain gravity energy would be to shut down a hill. But even then I would say friction wins. At least thats my experience and i'm doing archery since more than a decade.

If it would be realistic it should do less dmg on range, further the hit chance should reduce dramaticly with range, there should be a further reduction of hit chance if using a max dmg bow. In RL you barly hit with a bow with max draw weight you can pull.

But ESO isnt realistic. It has no physics. Here you just stand on a plain in space with infrared auto aiming rocket arrows^^

DisgracefulMind

If any attack in this game is going to hit for 2.5k damage, then it should have an extremely long cast time. Snipe does not. This is ridiculous damage for something that doesn't take long to cast at all, can be cast from stealth, and cast from a long distance. You bow-users can defend this all you want, but the damage shouldn't be this high.

Muizer

I'm most surprised about the "light attack" at 330. Yesterday I got hit by one for 450 even.

Kromus

Germtrocity wrote: »

So you complain about bow being too strong, hmm?
Bologna, bow is perfectly fine as is, not OP or unbalanced at all! It is exactly where it should be and working as intended!
If this doesn't show how broken bow is then there is no hope.





The most frustrating part is that I was hearing the snipes all along but since arrows make hardly any noticeable trace by the person firing them, it is almost impossible to locate exactly where they are coming from at times, especially when you are being max ranged.

And also why is the most powerful weapon in the game also allowed max range and a healing debuff? I know this subject has been visited countless times, but I just had to add this as i find it ridiculous that this happened

And as a side note, I am not a vampire and I am running full impen so all damage was more or less calculated normally.



Why doesn't my crystal frag hit 2.6k damage zeni!? Y u no luv sorc!?


-And to clarify, I really am not even mad at this, it is just quite silly and laughable at this point

Hints at death recap are hilarious! Game don't understand how you died and what should you do about it for future reference. Clearly working as intended, eh.

Germtrocity

Kromus wrote: »

Germtrocity wrote: »

So you complain about bow being too strong, hmm?
Bologna, bow is perfectly fine as is, not OP or unbalanced at all! It is exactly where it should be and working as intended!
If this doesn't show how broken bow is then there is no hope.





The most frustrating part is that I was hearing the snipes all along but since arrows make hardly any noticeable trace by the person firing them, it is almost impossible to locate exactly where they are coming from at times, especially when you are being max ranged.

And also why is the most powerful weapon in the game also allowed max range and a healing debuff? I know this subject has been visited countless times, but I just had to add this as i find it ridiculous that this happened

And as a side note, I am not a vampire and I am running full impen so all damage was more or less calculated normally.



Why doesn't my crystal frag hit 2.6k damage zeni!? Y u no luv sorc!?


-And to clarify, I really am not even mad at this, it is just quite silly and laughable at this point

Hints at death recap are hilarious! Game don't understand how you died and what should you do about it for future reference. Clearly working as intended, eh.

Indeed, it really was unfortunate that my items lost 10% durability after that death

Germtrocity

And just to add, this is not an L2P issue, I feel that I play the sorcerer class at least moderately well and am very careful about my positioning and timings, etc. I figured I was safe sitting at around 2.8k health before shielding back up and then all of a sudden I was ripped apart by the hit. Normally I have my game volume high enough to hear arrows, but I was on teamspeak with a special someone and was unable to hear it, though if you include game volume in as an L2P issue then I guess I have nothing to say to that....

In short, it does a ton of damage, and wasn't an L2P issue as Columba would try to make it seem

KBKB

Lol how long is ZOS going to let this snipe-fest go on for?

DisgracefulMind

Muizer wrote: »

I'm most surprised about the "light attack" at 330. Yesterday I got hit by one for 450 even.

I'm still crying over this heavy attack. ):

Germtrocity

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

I'm most surprised about the "light attack" at 330. Yesterday I got hit by one for 450 even.

I'm still crying over this heavy attack. ):

You should have bought a potion to restore Health, Stamina, or Magicka.

Telel

Having played with the bow since beta Telel wishes to once again state that they feel the OP is over reacting. They'd also point out that focused aim does not give a healing debuff but that was already said earlier.

As others have pointed out in order to hit those damage numbers the bow user has to basically build their entire set up around using that one weapon, and almost that one skill. It is not something any goober who watched Lord of The Rings can manage. Especially as it all but requires being a NB to get the mark target skill.

Were you to invest everything in your PVP build around such a method would you not wish a significant return on investment?

Furthermore this one suggests you add efficient purge to one of your skill bars, and practice the break free key combo. Once you get those, and work out how to roll dodge you will find arrow monkies to be less bothersome. It certainly works for Telel as they operate in the role of counter sniper during many a fight.

Finally if that seems to hard then perhaps you should re roll as a DK. Then it's just a matter of holding down the right mouse button and clicking reflective scales every 3.75 seconds in order to collect free AP from all those wanna be.... Legolaseses...legolasii...legolasen?

Rylana

My maximums on Kailiana (bowblade stam weapon damage build)

All vs non block, all within the last month, rounded from memory

Light attack - 720
Heavy attack - 1900
Lethal arrow - 2560
Poison Injection - Ticks for 250

The tradeoff is that if I am so much as sneezed at I die.

Averages are about 33 percent lower, but still ridiculously high for near instacast abilities. The costs are ridiculously low as well. People complain about using the same pool for everything, it takes me almost 60 seconds of constant firing (while using potions and buffs) to run dry.

Snipe needs its 3 second cast time back, it should never have been decreased.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Ackwalan wrote: »

You are forgetting about gravity. At long range an arrows path is arched, when it reaches it pinnacle height and starts its downward approach, gravity gives the arrow extra punch. Depending on the type of arrow and how much arch is used the arrow can have 16X more kinetic energy then at point blank range.

As a scientist with a solid understanding of physics, I am worried about how well-informed you make your wildly erroneous post sound, by using scientific terms and quoting numbers. Whatever source you got this from is just dead wrong.

If you are really an archer, or if you know people who are, you could conduct an experiment in the simple style of "Mythbusters". Fire an arrow at an angle you think would give it more power at the target, and have it land in soft ground. Then walk up to the place where it landed and fire an arrow at point blank range next to it in the same angle as the long range arrow hit. Then look at the penetration to see which arrow had the greater impact speed. You may have to fire several arrows and take the average to account for variations in ground softness.

Unless you are using rocket propelled arrows, or firing straight down from a very tall tower with a weak bow that can't get the arrow up to decent speed, a long range shot will never have more impact speed than a point blank shot.

That's it. Sorry for the interruption, but it just couldn't leave that uncontested. Now back to discussing the game.

synnerman

It amazes me that people actually try to defend the *** snipe damage and TTK from them in this game , perhaps when 1.6 hits and the majority of the DKs feel it aswell when their scales are disappearing after 1 second and they start getting hit by this joke.
Lets see if telling them to spam their scales works

Dekkameron

Mauz wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

You are forgetting about gravity. At long range an arrows path is arched, when it reaches it pinnacle height and starts its downward approach, gravity gives the arrow extra punch. Depending on the type of arrow and how much arch is used the arrow can have 16X more kinetic energy then at point blank range.

Hope this is kind of ironic.

An arrow has most power at release. Assuming you are standing on a flat plain it loses the same amount of energy in the climb phase than it gains when falling down. If you remove energy lost by friction it actually has less energy when it hits. The only way to gain gravity energy would be to shut down a hill. But even then I would say friction wins. At least thats my experience and i'm doing archery since more than a decade.

If it would be realistic it should do less dmg on range, further the hit chance should reduce dramaticly with range, there should be a further reduction of hit chance if using a max dmg bow. In RL you barly hit with a bow with max draw weight you can pull.

But ESO isnt realistic. It has no physics. Here you just stand on a plain in space with infrared auto aiming rocket arrows^^

When an arrow leaves the bow the shaft is VERY bent and firing it at very short ranges often it will ricochet off the target.



Depending on the power of the bow/strength of the shot, i'd say about 10 meters is really the minimum you can fire an arrow at someone decently.

Dekkameron

Telel wrote: »

Finally if that seems to hard then perhaps you should re roll as a DK. Then it's just a matter of holding down the right mouse button and clicking reflective scales every 3.75 seconds in order to collect free AP from all those wanna be.... Legolaseses...legolasii...legolasen?

Even better, roll a DK primary bow user. Igneous weapons, Reflective scales and Green dragons blood are awesome skills to compliment flinging arrows about.

Telel

synnerman wrote: »

It amazes me that people actually try to defend the *** snipe damage and TTK from them in this game , perhaps when 1.6 hits and the majority of the DKs feel it aswell when their scales are disappearing after 1 second and they start getting hit by this joke.
Lets see if telling them to spam their scales works

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Teargrants

Rylana wrote: »

The tradeoff is that if I am so much as sneezed at I die.

Thanks, I'll start recruiting ppl w/ pollen allergies.

Kromus

Telel wrote: »

Having played with the bow since beta Telel wishes to once again state that they feel the OP is over reacting. They'd also point out that focused aim does not give a healing debuff but that was already said earlier.

As others have pointed out in order to hit those damage numbers the bow user has to basically build their entire set up around using that one weapon, and almost that one skill. It is not something any goober who watched Lord of The Rings can manage. Especially as it all but requires being a NB to get the mark target skill.

Were you to invest everything in your PVP build around such a method would you not wish a significant return on investment?

Furthermore this one suggests you add efficient purge to one of your skill bars, and practice the break free key combo. Once you get those, and work out how to roll dodge you will find arrow monkies to be less bothersome. It certainly works for Telel as they operate in the role of counter sniper during many a fight.

Finally if that seems to hard then perhaps you should re roll as a DK. Then it's just a matter of holding down the right mouse button and clicking reflective scales every 3.75 seconds in order to collect free AP from all those wanna be.... Legolaseses...legolasii...legolasen?

Its nice to give advice how to counter some things in game, but this is not something that can be countered most of the times. You are talking about possible counters during open fight, but those don't help when you get sneak killed in one second which is usual scenario with sneaky archers. Dozen of sneaky archers hit you for two chained 1.5-2k lethal arrows in succession for pretty much instant death (on non-dk tank), and they manage to hit those numbers every time.

You have a point with ROI for putting everything in one weapon, but that is also a root of the problem: a) you shouldn't be allowed to do so and some limitations on stacking effects and buffs need to be implemented as everyone else need to work for their kills (even DKs). Sneaky archers only need to 'download' right build, craft/buy gear, stand in shadows and use exactly same button sequence over and over in order to get free kills.

When weapon ability surpass class abilities by huge margin, something is very wrong in balance.

What about ROI for tank builds? They put all they can in survival but can still be hammered down in a second from sneaky archer. Argument how those sneaky archers are [snip] if they dont kill target in 1-2 seconds is bad one, because with nb teleport, endless roll-dodging and pots they are very elusive kind. Tank builds don't whine how their dps is low, like sneaky archers do about their survival.

Perichor

Columba wrote: »

lol. I rarely die from snipe or focused aim. Block, dodge and get some decent (or any)armor. I only snipe for >1500 against low level players with terrible armor who don't know how to react to being a marked target. I've never hit anyone for that much. sorry don't buy this as anything close to typical.

you dont get sniped because your are the sniper LOL

this Snipe should have been nerfed ages ago ( i mean i guess it doesnt matter now with 1.6 coming out) but ZOS is real lazy about how their changes to the game for PVEs sake affect PVP but of course

pve>pvp

Asgari

I understand the need for ganking in AvA. But what I don't understand is why 1 skill goes far beyond every other.

Telel

Beyond any other? Telel shall believe that when a certain someone makes a rap filled youtube video about their sniping exploits in a 1vsX encounter.

Mauz

Dekkameron wrote: »

When an arrow leaves the bow the shaft is VERY bent and firing it at very short ranges often it will ricochet off the target.



Depending on the power of the bow/strength of the shot, i'd say about 10 meters is really the minimum you can fire an arrow at someone decently.

Depends on your bow, the spine of the arrow and how soft your target is. Modern bows shut through the bow axis and can use rather stiff arrows which dont oscillate very much. I myself use a flat bow and a horse bow where I shut over the hand. Therefore my arrows have to be rather soft with high oscillation. When I craft arrows I usually start spine tests at 5-6m and increase then. If the spine is fine the arrow sticks in the target with full strength even at short distance. The arrow doesnt bend as much as in your image. Its more like this:

rosecityarchery.com/images/4000GeneralMisc/4100HuntingWithWoodBooklet/4105BHWW.jpg

If your target is soft you dont get deflection even at short range. With beginners I usually start at 6m and by now they all had to pull hard to get their arrows out of the target although they fly obviously not in a straight line^^

In addition oscillation has high friction and damps fast. Normally you dont see your arrow oscillate in the flight. If you do its to soft. But that doesnt matter. You only get rebounce if you hit a 3d target somewhere in a flat angle. The problem is more that with such an arrow you wont hit anyway.

But I could imagine that shooting at short range on a hard target like plate armor your arrow will rebound or simply break.I never did. Crafting an arrow needs more than 1h so I try not to break them intentionally ;-)

K, that might be a bit OT...

Manoekin

How does anything do more damage than when I drop a literal sun on top of people?

What is this crap.

synnerman

Telel wrote: »

synnerman wrote: »

It amazes me that people actually try to defend the *** snipe damage and TTK from them in this game , perhaps when 1.6 hits and the majority of the DKs feel it aswell when their scales are disappearing after 1 second and they start getting hit by this joke.
Lets see if telling them to spam their scales works

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

I suppose when a dragon knight scales up now and gets hit multiple times by arrows from several bow users and nothing happens its not a problem but in update 6 when they get hit multiple times with scales up in the first second and then have 3 seconds where they have nothing and see the outcome is exaggerating.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Etaniel

synnerman wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

synnerman wrote: »

It amazes me that people actually try to defend the *** snipe damage and TTK from them in this game , perhaps when 1.6 hits and the majority of the DKs feel it aswell when their scales are disappearing after 1 second and they start getting hit by this joke.
Lets see if telling them to spam their scales works

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

I suppose when a dragon knight scales up now and gets hit multiple times by arrows from several bow users and nothing happens its not a problem but in update 6 when they get hit multiple times with scales up in the first second and then have 3 seconds where they have nothing and see the outcome is exaggerating.

I don't have to wait for 1.6 to know that snipe is ridiculous, and plenty of dks have cried about snipe already

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

mcurley

Ackwalan wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

The damage was so high because of the ambush. It gave the sneak attack a 36% extra buff.

I believe that the long range damage buff should be reversed. Surely you get more power from a arrow when the target is closer to you rather then 50m away where the amount of air resistance would slow it down considerably. That would be a great way to combat the powerful nature of snipe.

You are forgetting about gravity. At long range an arrows path is arched, when it reaches it pinnacle height and starts its downward approach, gravity gives the arrow extra punch. Depending on the type of arrow and how much arch is used the arrow can have 16X more kinetic energy then at point blank range.

Oh dear god, please do yourself a favor and look up the conservation of energy.

Asgari

Why are you all disputing irrelevant irl bow theory?

Ghostbane

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

You are forgetting about gravity. At long range an arrows path is arched, when it reaches it pinnacle height and starts its downward approach, gravity gives the arrow extra punch. Depending on the type of arrow and how much arch is used the arrow can have 16X more kinetic energy then at point blank range.

As a scientist with a solid understanding of physics, I am worried about how well-informed you make your wildly erroneous post sound, by using scientific terms and quoting numbers. Whatever source you got this from is just dead wrong.

If you are really an archer, or if you know people who are, you could conduct an experiment in the simple style of "Mythbusters". Fire an arrow at an angle you think would give it more power at the target, and have it land in soft ground. Then walk up to the place where it landed and fire an arrow at point blank range next to it in the same angle as the long range arrow hit. Then look at the penetration to see which arrow had the greater impact speed. You may have to fire several arrows and take the average to account for variations in ground softness.

Unless you are using rocket propelled arrows, or firing straight down from a very tall tower with a weak bow that can't get the arrow up to decent speed, a long range shot will never have more impact speed than a point blank shot.

That's it. Sorry for the interruption, but it just couldn't leave that uncontested. Now back to discussing the game.

You are my new favourite person.

izjiz

Like others have said, to get this damage all you really have to do is spec correctly for it. I've seen magica nbs & stamina built sorcs hit higher numbers then this.



The poison debuff & Cast time is a little stupid, but complaining about the damage just seems unreasonable. A build made to ruin someone out of stealth at the expense of all survivability should be able to do this in my eyes.

We all die to it now and again, but i'm sure you've rolled far more gank builds then they have you.