Rapid gear decay

Bulwyf

This thread needs to stay on the first page until we get a better answer than "working as intended" as several people, myself included, are seeing durability loss even when there is no combat.

Malloway

I'm sure there are bugs within the system that need to be fixed, but the fact that our armor decays based on mob xp (yes this has been tested and proven true) and not how much damage you take is ridiculous . I'm sure there are more logical options to gear decay then this?

thegamekittenub17_ESO

So it is working as planned? First this is total crap, especially with crappy way the money is being balanced in game. This is the worst design in armor decay I've ever seen in any MMO, and I've played many. I guess if there was a decent way to acquire gold it wouldn't be a problem. But this is also the most screwy economy I've seen. To combat gold sellers and their bots you have nerfed so many things that it hurts the players.

And on an off note. I've never seen an MMO that so blatantly punishes people for grouping up. I mean it is horrible the way the grouping up is, you have made a single player game with MMO as an after thought.

If you want this game to be an MMO you should not punish your players. In Elder Scrolls single player I've never ran into a problem with gold so I didn't have a problem with repairs. Why? Because I didn't have this company coming in and nerfing everything because they thought gold sellers and their toys would not enter their supposed MMO. I also could loot many things to sell not just food, recipes, and motifs.

-.- Now I have to convince my fiancé something is worth the sub than this game that continues to punish its players at every turn. I only play this game for him due to the way this company pretends to know how a real MMO should go.

Let's not even get into the boohoo quests that repeat themselves at every turn.

Arsenic_Touch

What's funny, was grouped with some guildies in a public dungeon to farm mobs earlier. I had 100% durability. Got up to get a drink, told them that I'll be back and if I don't come back to go on ahead without me and got side tracked and started talking to someone for about 10 minutes, to I was near a boss and large group of mobs but out of the way, came back and I had 50% durability loss in 10 minutes. Was ridiculous.

Arwyn

Public Dungeon loss has been pretty hard, did the one in Alik'r and the loss was near 800g for the run and I didn't dally around. The xp gain was high too.

I don't seem to get any deterioration if I kill things that net under 10xp, was killing jackals for a while with no loss (unless I blocked an attack, gained finesse xp then I lost)

Ashtaris

As one of the largest threads in their support section, you would think they would get the picture. The "working as intended" is not acceptable. The armor decay is broken, period. Fix it!

smosti

Definitely broken. Defeats the purpose of improving gear. May as well sell the improve mats for gold to repair your "normal" armor. Your armor rating stays higher that way as opposed to spending 3 improve mats on each piece to have the armor decay to worthless in halfa.

Please make decay on death only! Decay on xp gain and combat is ridiculous. At the very least....lower repair prices. I'd like to have my character in matching armor for more then 30mins!

This issue is not only killing our gold but killing personal armor crafting as well as crafting to obtain a profit from others.

Makes smithing and clothing profession worthless.

Singular

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Singular wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Anarchos404 wrote: »

Well that's it then...

Thanks for the answer I guess but...
It still changes nothing, if we really loose durability from "gaining exp" something, somewhere along the initial game crunching went terribly wrong.

Loosing durability from (1) Dying, (2) Getting hit and (3) to some degree wear and tear normal usage is just fine.

But actually from gaining exp?
Exploration? Crafting? Handing in quests?
That is...

From a game balance standpoint (ie. to make sure things are fair across the classes and combat roles), I don't have any fundamental problem with the idea of losing durability from gaining xp. I do think that should only apply to xp gained from combat rather than all sources of xp, but I don't have any problem with the basic idea.

Losing durability because of gaining xp is utterly silly. Now we have to take off our all our gear when we hand in quests???

Yeah, because it's not like I said something along the lines of "I do think that should only apply to xp gained from combat rather than all sources of xp" or anything. Oh wait, I did say exactly that. And it's right there in what you quoted. Huh, weird.

Totally! But it shouldn't be tied to xp. Armor durability should be tied to damage - only damage. Not xp b/c of damage, but just to damage.

I guess it could be tied to the xp gained to creatures we kill, and the damage involved in those particular fights and nothing else, but that feels kind of like cheating - it means that the times when we're zerging, not killing stuff, but maybe getting hit from time to time, cause our armor no damage. I'm ok with that - it's just that I really don't see how xp and armor go together.

Ausare

In FF14 the repair bills got people bankrupt, even when having a lot of gold from the previous version for several month.

babylon

Singular wrote: »

I really don't see how xp and armor go together.

What they've done is tie it to mobs you are within level range to get drops off (armour drops and so on).

This is really a tax on PVE - looting/drops/gold.

Gear decay is a PVE Tax.

mark2472

babylon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Zirq wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

• All regions seem to be affected.
• There does not appear to be any pattern, as specific enemies will cause egregious gear decay on one character but not on another while they're in the same party. This means the mob itself is unlikely to be the source.
• The damage from crafting bug isn't one I've seen, so I can't really weigh in. I kind of wonder if it occurs when a player is still in a party with a friend, but not in the same area, so they're actually receiving combat XP. But, that's speculation, and it wouldn't explain someone's weapons getting damaged... that was weird.

I can weigh in on the crafting thing. Both my friend and I were crafting, no others in the party, so no one was in combat. He took durability loss while crafting, while I did not. So combat XP isn't a part of it (or at least not always). No fall damage was taken either, I might add.

Well... there goes that theory.

*scampers off to the drawing board*

When you kill a mob it isn't the act of gaining xp that does it - it's just that you killed a mob within level range of your character. Mobs within level range drop loot, and this item decay is really just a tax on gaining loot.

This became clear when I got to VR1 and killed L50 mobs, and while they don't give xp, they do drop items because they're within level range to drop, and they also do cause gear decay when you kill them.

Basically this is a tax on gaining items/gold/loot...so it's possible that when someone crafts and gains an item or more, the game might think they've gained too much loot and tax them for it through some glitch in the code.

I may be wrong, but I believe level 50 mobs do still give combat xp. It may not go towards your level, since you only level from veteran xp once you hit VR1, but I've heard that you can still level skills by killing level 50 mobs even when you're in the veteran ranks. Since skills level off of xp, this would lead me to believe that they still give xp.

smosti

babylon wrote: »

Singular wrote: »

I really don't see how xp and armor go together.

What they've done is tie it to mobs you are within level range to get drops off (armour drops and so on).

This is really a tax on PVE - looting/drops/gold.

Gear decay is a PVE Tax.

A tax? it's *** ***. Like i mentioned above. Defeats to purpose of spending time crafting your armor! You only get to wear it for 30mins!
Use legendary improve mats? Uh no way...what's the point in that if the 10 increase in armor is going to be negated when I hand in this quest? May as well sell the legendary crafting mat for 2k gold.

Initially, I did not notice this issue as I was leveling fast and pretty much equipping the things I picked up as I went along. Now that I have a high smithing level and leveling has slowed.... I'd like to be able to wear the god damn Ancient Elf armor I've crafted for more then 30mins? Lets not forget I pad 35k for this motiff.

Absolute crap. This decay system needs some serious work sometime in the near future.

babylon

mark2472 wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Zirq wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

• All regions seem to be affected.
• There does not appear to be any pattern, as specific enemies will cause egregious gear decay on one character but not on another while they're in the same party. This means the mob itself is unlikely to be the source.
• The damage from crafting bug isn't one I've seen, so I can't really weigh in. I kind of wonder if it occurs when a player is still in a party with a friend, but not in the same area, so they're actually receiving combat XP. But, that's speculation, and it wouldn't explain someone's weapons getting damaged... that was weird.

I can weigh in on the crafting thing. Both my friend and I were crafting, no others in the party, so no one was in combat. He took durability loss while crafting, while I did not. So combat XP isn't a part of it (or at least not always). No fall damage was taken either, I might add.

Well... there goes that theory.

*scampers off to the drawing board*

When you kill a mob it isn't the act of gaining xp that does it - it's just that you killed a mob within level range of your character. Mobs within level range drop loot, and this item decay is really just a tax on gaining loot.

This became clear when I got to VR1 and killed L50 mobs, and while they don't give xp, they do drop items because they're within level range to drop, and they also do cause gear decay when you kill them.

Basically this is a tax on gaining items/gold/loot...so it's possible that when someone crafts and gains an item or more, the game might think they've gained too much loot and tax them for it through some glitch in the code.

I may be wrong, but I believe level 50 mobs do still give combat xp. It may not go towards your level, since you only level from veteran xp once you hit VR1, but I've heard that you can still level skills by killing level 50 mobs even when you're in the veteran ranks. Since skills level off of xp, this would lead me to believe that they still give xp.

No, L50 mobs in non-vet zones don't give VR ranked players xp. That's how I discovered the real trigger is not xp, but the fact that the mob drops items (which L50 mobs in non-vet zones do still do for VR ranked players - no xp, but they do drop items).

This is a tax on item drops - a PVE Tax.

smosti

babylon wrote: »

mark2472 wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Zirq wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

• All regions seem to be affected.
• There does not appear to be any pattern, as specific enemies will cause egregious gear decay on one character but not on another while they're in the same party. This means the mob itself is unlikely to be the source.
• The damage from crafting bug isn't one I've seen, so I can't really weigh in. I kind of wonder if it occurs when a player is still in a party with a friend, but not in the same area, so they're actually receiving combat XP. But, that's speculation, and it wouldn't explain someone's weapons getting damaged... that was weird.

I can weigh in on the crafting thing. Both my friend and I were crafting, no others in the party, so no one was in combat. He took durability loss while crafting, while I did not. So combat XP isn't a part of it (or at least not always). No fall damage was taken either, I might add.

Well... there goes that theory.

*scampers off to the drawing board*

When you kill a mob it isn't the act of gaining xp that does it - it's just that you killed a mob within level range of your character. Mobs within level range drop loot, and this item decay is really just a tax on gaining loot.

This became clear when I got to VR1 and killed L50 mobs, and while they don't give xp, they do drop items because they're within level range to drop, and they also do cause gear decay when you kill them.

Basically this is a tax on gaining items/gold/loot...so it's possible that when someone crafts and gains an item or more, the game might think they've gained too much loot and tax them for it through some glitch in the code.

I may be wrong, but I believe level 50 mobs do still give combat xp. It may not go towards your level, since you only level from veteran xp once you hit VR1, but I've heard that you can still level skills by killing level 50 mobs even when you're in the veteran ranks. Since skills level off of xp, this would lead me to believe that they still give xp.

No, L50 mobs in non-vet zones don't give VR ranked players xp. That's how I discovered the real trigger is not xp, but the fact that the mob drops items (which L50 mobs in non-vet zones do still do for VR ranked players - no xp, but they do drop items).

This is a tax on item drops - a PVE Tax.

Please then.....drop me the legendary AE armor I just crafted 15mins ago?..
Stupid way to enforce a tax....

smosti

smosti wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

mark2472 wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Zirq wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

• All regions seem to be affected.
• There does not appear to be any pattern, as specific enemies will cause egregious gear decay on one character but not on another while they're in the same party. This means the mob itself is unlikely to be the source.
• The damage from crafting bug isn't one I've seen, so I can't really weigh in. I kind of wonder if it occurs when a player is still in a party with a friend, but not in the same area, so they're actually receiving combat XP. But, that's speculation, and it wouldn't explain someone's weapons getting damaged... that was weird.

I can weigh in on the crafting thing. Both my friend and I were crafting, no others in the party, so no one was in combat. He took durability loss while crafting, while I did not. So combat XP isn't a part of it (or at least not always). No fall damage was taken either, I might add.

Well... there goes that theory.

*scampers off to the drawing board*

When you kill a mob it isn't the act of gaining xp that does it - it's just that you killed a mob within level range of your character. Mobs within level range drop loot, and this item decay is really just a tax on gaining loot.

This became clear when I got to VR1 and killed L50 mobs, and while they don't give xp, they do drop items because they're within level range to drop, and they also do cause gear decay when you kill them.

Basically this is a tax on gaining items/gold/loot...so it's possible that when someone crafts and gains an item or more, the game might think they've gained too much loot and tax them for it through some glitch in the code.

I may be wrong, but I believe level 50 mobs do still give combat xp. It may not go towards your level, since you only level from veteran xp once you hit VR1, but I've heard that you can still level skills by killing level 50 mobs even when you're in the veteran ranks. Since skills level off of xp, this would lead me to believe that they still give xp.

No, L50 mobs in non-vet zones don't give VR ranked players xp. That's how I discovered the real trigger is not xp, but the fact that the mob drops items (which L50 mobs in non-vet zones do still do for VR ranked players - no xp, but they do drop items).

This is a tax on item drops - a PVE Tax.

Please then.....drop me the legendary AE armor I just crafted 15mins ago?..
Stupid way to enforce a tax....

Here's an idea. Let us turn off drops? Turning off drop turns off non death deccay? I don't want the shittu drops anyway... lol

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

I'm honestly puzzled by this. I've mostly played pve over the last few days, question and breaking down all my mats (guild store) the ones I don't use and I always turn a profit. I can last on the field for a few hours.

What is the point in hording gold in this game? I'm a bit confused here. Changing the system of decay but keeping the costs virtually the same seems to be the answer you are all looking for.

vyal

As soon as 1.0.7 is live I'll be testing this "3g per mob PvE tax" again.

Let's see if Zenimax knows good from bad.

smosti

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm honestly puzzled by this. I've mostly played pve over the last few days, question and breaking down all my mats (guild store) the ones I don't use and I always turn a profit. I can last on the field for a few hours.

What is the point in hording gold in this game? I'm a bit confused here. Changing the system of decay but keeping the costs virtually the same seems to be the answer you are all looking for.

Having legendary armor decay in 30mins has nothing to do with hording gold? It's the fact that having armor completely decay in 30mins defeats the purpose of crafting armor which defeats the purpose of buying motifs which throws "fashion" and armor specing out the window lol

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

smosti wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm honestly puzzled by this. I've mostly played pve over the last few days, question and breaking down all my mats (guild store) the ones I don't use and I always turn a profit. I can last on the field for a few hours.

What is the point in hording gold in this game? I'm a bit confused here. Changing the system of decay but keeping the costs virtually the same seems to be the answer you are all looking for.

Having legendary armor decay in 30mins has nothing to do with hording gold? It's the fact that having armor completely decay in 30mins defeats the purpose of crafting armor which defeats the purpose of buying motifs which throws "fashion" and armor specing out the window lol

30 mins? I don't know if that's realistic, personally I've yet to have all my gear completely broken in 30 mins.

But ok, if you say so.

Soloeus

We all need to just run around naked and post in my thread demanding an unarmored skill line. The game is now one of naked and 0% Armor characters.

This is the game; now, let us choose.

I, for one, don't enjoy spending 4 hours gathering mats and crafting armor sets just to have it last for 30 minutes. I will never make enough gold per hour to earn back what was lost in making the equipment.

I choose 0% and once I respec to reset all of my armor skills, I will be much better off by 9 skill points and all future repair gold.

vyal

Yep, Soloeus, that's what it's come down to.

I didn't even bother crafting a VR2 set of armor, after I did all of VR1 naked. I just grabbed a costume and played as normal. At least without armor, you don't care about dying in the slightest. Dying is, once again (like so many other poorly designed MMO's) a form of fast travel.

Also, fighting naked is the best for farming. You can stay in the field for hours, right until your inventory is full of decon mats, rather than constantly worrying if you're going to break even or lose money just trying to collect mats to skill up.

And The Eight help you if you are trying to skillup a third, fourth, or fifth weapon. Trying to do that in armor you'd be bankrupt in a day.

ttwinklerub17_ESO

just bring back manual repairs - like in the original elders scrolls
if we found hammers or tongs we could fix a small amount
there was always the chance for reduced quality along the way too
(which made it important to train in black smithing to cut down on mistakes)

why not implement the same feature with materials - if you don't have the tongs/hammers/tools you have an added cost - because it will buy them for the repair

Ausare

I like the idea of running naked in VR content. Just like in FF14 in the beginning to bind an item.

Darzil

I'm starting to feel that the speed of the decay is a worse problem than the cost. The cost is a pain, and a kick in the teeth, but the speed of decay stops you playing the game for a while whilst you return to town to repair/recraft.

vyal

ttwinklerub17_ESO wrote: »

just bring back manual repairs - like in the original elders scrolls
if we found hammers or tongs we could fix a small amount
there was always the chance for reduced quality along the way too
(which made it important to train in black smithing to cut down on mistakes)

why not implement the same feature with materials - if you don't have the tongs/hammers/tools you have an added cost - because it will buy them for the repair

Agreed. Options for improvement include...

Either allow us self-repair with no gold cost by consuming resources (ingots, cloth, leather). Even half the cost of making it (5 ingots of calcinium per slot), at least I could offset the cost myself with harvesting.
AND/OR
Replace the current durability system with some kind of durability loss on un-resurrected death only (that is, returning to a wayshrine incurs the penalty, self rez and/or ally rez does not.)
AND/OR
Have some kind of 'smart' system that recovers durability if you block/interrupt/dodge, so if you play smart, you can at least break even.
AND/OR
Have 'opposing' damage types cause more durability loss to armor types. For example, light armor would take more damage from physical attacks, whereas heavy armor would take more damage from magical/elemental attacks, and medium would be somewhere in the middle.
AND/OR
Worst case, base it entirely on damage taken, whatever kind of damage, and screw the tanks. As a tank, I'd be happier with this than what is in place now. And maybe people would start using util/cc skills instead of just spamming the destro staff flame AE.

smosti

vyal wrote: »

Agreed. Options for improvement include...

Either allow us self-repair with no gold cost by consuming resources (ingots, cloth, leather). Even half the cost of making it (5 ingots of calcinium per slot), at least I could offset the cost myself with harvesting.
AND/OR
Add in some kind of durability loss on un-resurrected death only (that is, returning to a wayshrine incurs the penalty, self rez and/or ally rez does not.)
AND/OR
Have some kind of 'smart' system that recovers durability if you block/interrupt/dodge, so if you play smart, you can at least break even.
AND/OR
Have 'opposing' damage types cause more durability loss to armor types. For example, light armor would take more damage from physical attacks, whereas heavy armor would take more damage from magical/elemental attacks, and medium would be somewhere in the middle.
AND/OR
Worst case, base it entirely on damage taken, whatever kind of damage, and screw the tanks. As a tank, I'd be happier with this than what is in place now. And maybe people would start using util/cc skills instead of just spamming the destro staff flame AE.

They should employ you soley to devise a new decay system lol. First point was the best one! Decon items u farm and use some of it to repair your armor. Winning.

kasain

NO!!!

You don't get any exp off lvl 50 monsters if youa re V1 or higher. I don't know about skill exp or such. But I know for sure that you get zero exp. I was Vr1 for two days before I beat molag bal, and got no exp off monsters.

Between repair bills, and can't play with a new friend who installs the game. ESO really doesn't want us to refer friends to this game.

I don't know what teh solution is. but /stuck armro drop is wrong. party armor dmg of others is bad.

Maybe no point in gold right now, but the game is new. And soon their will things to spend gold on.

starkerealm

babylon wrote: »

mark2472 wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Zirq wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

• All regions seem to be affected.
• There does not appear to be any pattern, as specific enemies will cause egregious gear decay on one character but not on another while they're in the same party. This means the mob itself is unlikely to be the source.
• The damage from crafting bug isn't one I've seen, so I can't really weigh in. I kind of wonder if it occurs when a player is still in a party with a friend, but not in the same area, so they're actually receiving combat XP. But, that's speculation, and it wouldn't explain someone's weapons getting damaged... that was weird.

I can weigh in on the crafting thing. Both my friend and I were crafting, no others in the party, so no one was in combat. He took durability loss while crafting, while I did not. So combat XP isn't a part of it (or at least not always). No fall damage was taken either, I might add.

Well... there goes that theory.

*scampers off to the drawing board*

When you kill a mob it isn't the act of gaining xp that does it - it's just that you killed a mob within level range of your character. Mobs within level range drop loot, and this item decay is really just a tax on gaining loot.

This became clear when I got to VR1 and killed L50 mobs, and while they don't give xp, they do drop items because they're within level range to drop, and they also do cause gear decay when you kill them.

Basically this is a tax on gaining items/gold/loot...so it's possible that when someone crafts and gains an item or more, the game might think they've gained too much loot and tax them for it through some glitch in the code.

I may be wrong, but I believe level 50 mobs do still give combat xp. It may not go towards your level, since you only level from veteran xp once you hit VR1, but I've heard that you can still level skills by killing level 50 mobs even when you're in the veteran ranks. Since skills level off of xp, this would lead me to believe that they still give xp.

No, L50 mobs in non-vet zones don't give VR ranked players xp. That's how I discovered the real trigger is not xp, but the fact that the mob drops items (which L50 mobs in non-vet zones do still do for VR ranked players - no xp, but they do drop items).

This is a tax on item drops - a PVE Tax.

It's slightly more likely that they still have an XP value that's queried and applied as damage to your armor, but not actually awarded, than it being associated with the actual drops.

The alternative is that your drop roll is made when you kill an enemy and not when you open the loot container, in which case the death manager is the source. But, I haven't seen a correlation between getting stuff and decay.

I suppose it's possible there's an automatic, blind pickup in the death manager scripts that roll the dice when you kill them, and that's how it's getting applied. Also, possible that when you're in a group, like any loot, everyone is eligible, and gets a "free" roll. And, with some players the get the roll for every party member. If deterioration is geometric, it'd go a long way towards explaining why some people see their gear degenerate so quickly, when their own party members don't see that behavior.

It might also be, because of some bug in the group control systems not properly resetting when a character logs off in group and then rejoins. So that character permanently sees those phantoms as current additional party members, and makes sure they all get rolls, stacking on the deterioration...

Just theorizing here, I don't actually know how the systems work, so I'm having to guess based on external information.

Arwyn

kasain wrote: »

NO!!!

You don't get any exp off lvl 50 monsters if youa re V1 or higher. I don't know about skill exp or such. But I know for sure that you get zero exp. I was Vr1 for two days before I beat molag bal, and got no exp off monsters.

Were you getting decay?

babylon

Arwyn wrote: »

Were you getting decay?

L50 mobs in non-vet areas cause item decay to VR ranked players.

No xp, but they still drop items, therefore you get item decay.

Item drops = gear decay. This is a PVE tax.