Rapid gear decay

Juponen

starkerealm wrote: »

The problem there is, instead of running out of money, you'd end up with characters that couldn't get enough XP to advance without simply grinding mobs.

Hmm, now that you mention it let's remember that VR xp does not come from mob kills. So, as there is only a set number of quests they would have to enable grinding xp in VR. Unless they want to force PVP on players.

dennissomb16_ESO

Best example of something wrong with gear repairs came from a guildie today. Guild member went into to town to sell and craft. Repaired all their armor after selling, proceeded to craft for a while, and after finished crafting had armor damage and a new repair bill...... from crafting. Sorry, but there is something wrong

metaliquidorwb17_ESO

Hell this is pure bs, they are offering 5 days more to secure the next month sub but they will give it to you "if" you pay for that month which is stupid and with the game as it is right now doesn't worth a penny more that i already pay.

But i have to deal with this kind of stupid time sinking bugs like paying *** loads of gold for repairs for being connected (not even playing or dying..) sum up the latency issues and the freeze ups every 5 seconds, i cannot dash or it get worst... to hell with your *** game.

There is a lot of better games and more on its way, ZO tell me why should i pay for this crap when i can actually enjoy the time i pay for playing a game, other MMOs or any other RPGs. I rather go spend my money on games that worth it, not only spend the money but the time which is what really worth.

Corithna

I really don't know where you guys are getting the idea that durability loss occurs from gaining XP or IP. I gain both with complete impunity to my durability. You suffer a durability hit when you fail to block or avoid damage in combat, I.E. the finesse system. When you are doing it right you'll gain bonus experience and drops from mobs as well as avoiding those repair bills. No I don't manage to completely avoid them all the time. But I have good days and bad days where I'm either more or less responsive to the combat environment.
A good point was brought up earlier however concerning relative item levels, yes lower level gear does take a bigger bite to repair then does at level, or one level below your current. Again this is as intended to encourage players to keep their gear up to date. What is also not apparent to most people is the fact that at level gear does more then simply protect the player from harm. It also enhances the dps your character is capable of putting forth. Thus making combat all that much more simple.

The major problem here is that many people have very bad habits from other MMO systems where certain behavior was a more viable option then it is here. The number one rule during your leveling campaign is this Keep you gear up to date! Even having just white gear until you hit 50 is perfectly okay in most instances. Just so long as it is up to date. Beyond that make sure you avoiding/blocking the incoming hits, especially the heavy attacks. But given enough light attacks it can add up as well. One final note that you can see for yourself in game: Weapons take no durability hits whatsoever! Shields however do take durability hits but given the extra armor afforded by both equipping a shield and actively blocking incoming attacks the repair bills are not that bad overall.

Arwyn

Corithna wrote: »

I really don't know where you guys are getting the idea that durability loss occurs from gaining XP or IP. I gain both with complete impunity to my durability. You suffer a durability hit when you fail to block or avoid damage in combat, I.E. the finesse system. When you are doing it right you'll gain bonus experience and drops from mobs as well as avoiding those repair bills.

Sorry but testing this personally it isnt the case, I took durability hit to items not even being used (2nd slot) and I have confirmed a durability hit while taking 0 damage. (did this with a tanking friend, I took absolutely no damage in a dive)

Gillysan

I am using gear 10 levels lower than my current level and I can tell you my repair bills are minimal. However, Coritha you are totally wrong. There is a bug and different people are being hit with decay in odd places, ways and rates.

Let me guess, you skipped 19 pages of comments to post your opinion?

Knottypine

SootyTX wrote: »

I just don't understand at all where you guys are spending your money

I'm supporting daily horse feeding for 5 characters, increased personal storage for those five up to 80 base slots, plus bank is at 90. I've spent money on pretty much every possible money sink in the game. And I'm currently sitting at about 30k in 'spare change' at level 37.

What else is there to spend money on??

I can ask you a similar question, what are you doing to have so much money to support 5 characters?

I'm not sure what my main (only level 24) base storage is, probably around 90 maybe, I have several more from feeding my horse. My bank is up to 100. I have a mule and crafter that I spend nothing on. If I had everything maxed out it wouldn't be so much of a problem. But for right now it's just too expensive for a lower character to repair... Not that I repair anything because I'm not about to waste my gold on it right now. It's just principle that I see no reason for it to cost as much as it does.

Falmer

Well, yes the repair bills seem excessively high and equipment shouldn't wear down nearly as quickly as it does...

That said, what else is there really to spend gold on in this game anyway?

Other than increased backpack and bank space, I don't think my character has actually used gold to purchase anything.

Don't want or need a horse, and everything else drops from killing things or found in random containers.

Bulwyf

Corithna wrote: »

I really don't know where you guys are getting the idea that durability loss occurs from gaining XP or IP. I gain both with complete impunity to my durability. You suffer a durability hit when you fail to block or avoid damage in combat, I.E. the finesse system. When you are doing it right you'll gain bonus experience and drops from mobs as well as avoiding those repair bills. No I don't manage to completely avoid them all the time. But I have good days and bad days where I'm either more or less responsive to the combat environment.
A good point was brought up earlier however concerning relative item levels, yes lower level gear does take a bigger bite to repair then does at level, or one level below your current. Again this is as intended to encourage players to keep their gear up to date. What is also not apparent to most people is the fact that at level gear does more then simply protect the player from harm. It also enhances the dps your character is capable of putting forth. Thus making combat all that much more simple.

The major problem here is that many people have very bad habits from other MMO systems where certain behavior was a more viable option then it is here. The number one rule during your leveling campaign is this Keep you gear up to date! Even having just white gear until you hit 50 is perfectly okay in most instances. Just so long as it is up to date. Beyond that make sure you avoiding/blocking the incoming hits, especially the heavy attacks. But given enough light attacks it can add up as well. One final note that you can see for yourself in game: Weapons take no durability hits whatsoever! Shields however do take durability hits but given the extra armor afforded by both equipping a shield and actively blocking incoming attacks the repair bills are not that bad overall.

You seriously have no idea what you are talking about. Not to sound rude but please read the several posts in just this thread alone where people have tested various scenarios where durability loss is occurring when there is not even combat.

I can personally confirm the follow has happened while I tested it:

Durability loss after one shot kill a mob, mob did not attack back
Durability loss after exploration credit, no combat at all
Durability loss after discovering wayshrine, no combat at all
Durability loss after crafting, no combat at all

This system is clearly not working correctly.

Arsenic_Touch

Did a little test on my vampire nightblade last night. Armor was fully repaired, I was vampirism rank 4. Fed on soul shriven in cold harbor, 3 of them, didn't take a single point of damage, wasn't hit once. 1% durability loss from simply feeding and attacking them at range. So tell me how 3 mobs = 1% durability loss without taking a hit (i'm veteran rank 1 wearing all veteran rank gear btw)

On average, I lose about 25% durability from just doing a regular white icon on the map, it's ridiculous. Without dying I might add.

People really need to stop posting in this thread saying "That's not how it works, it doesn't do that for me" because it's clearly how it works for the majority of people in this thread and your posts are not helping anyone.

thilog

metaliquidorwb17_ESO wrote: »

Hell this is pure bs, they are offering 5 days more to secure the next month sub but they will give it to you "if" you pay for that month which is stupid and with the game as it is right now doesn't worth a penny more that i already pay.

But i have to deal with this kind of stupid time sinking bugs like paying *** loads of gold for repairs for being connected (not even playing or dying..) sum up the latency issues and the freeze ups every 5 seconds, i cannot dash or it get worst... to hell with your *** game.

There is a lot of better games and more on its way, ZO tell me why should i pay for this crap when i can actually enjoy the time i pay for playing a game, other MMOs or any other RPGs. I rather go spend my money on games that worth it, not only spend the money but the time which is what really worth.

Yep.. I paid using a prepaid card.. so it's irreversible now, 2 months of paid time for a game I honestly think I'll not be playing in 1 months time.

Endgame is sh.. unless you're a db or sorc.. dk and temps just get wasted by sorcs.. dks probably would as well, if the sorcs could see them.

But the story to 50 was nice. But not worth the £100 I paid. Won't be happening again, I bought this game because it was Elder Scrolls.. I didn't think they Quality of Service would be less than any other Es game. Zos have proven I made a horrible mistake.

thilog

Lv 49, wearing lv 47-49 ish gear. Mostly drops, helm crafted. Mostly blue items.

45mins grinding - 70 items gain. 900g in repairs. That's up to nearly 3x what it was last night before latest patch.

Zos is listening to us.. and totally ignoring us. Complain about it, they make it worse.

Cernow

Corithna wrote: »

I really don't know where you guys are getting the idea that durability loss occurs from gaining XP or IP. I gain both with complete impunity to my durability. You suffer a durability hit when you fail to block or avoid damage in combat, I.E. the finesse system. When you are doing it right you'll gain bonus experience and drops from mobs as well as avoiding those repair bills.

No, that's simply not how it works. It might be how you think it SHOULD work (and many would agree) but it's not how it actually works, at least not for many of the people posting in the 19 pages here. You will NOT avoid repair bills by playing well. You might get some extra xps, but you won't reduce your repair bills.

You will take durability damage regardless of if you block, dodge, stunlock, one-shot, kite or any other method of killing a mob without taking damage. It doesn't matter if you dodge around like a flea or just stand there like a heavyweight boxer and take your punishment, you will take a similar amounts of durability loss either way. You can even take durability damage on your shield when it was in your secondary weapon slot and not used in a fight.

steveb16_ESO46

Damage that happens when armour is damaged. No other fancy mechanism is needed. It doesn't need tweaking. The current system appears to have been designed by a blizzard saboteur. It just needs abandoning.

vyal

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Damage that happens when armour is damaged. No other fancy mechanism is needed. It doesn't need tweaking. The current system appears to have been designed by a blizzard saboteur. It just needs abandoning.

The sad thing is, there's probably some Zenimax cubicle drone generating daily reports on how this great system is drawing so much money out of the economy.

The fact that it's broken, illogical, and can't possibly be intended (when compared to every other MMO, past or present) is simply ignored.

I hate to say it, Zenimax, but you're shooting yourself in the head here. The more people find out, and the longer it takes, you're just going to lose more customers. People don't need ANOTHER reason to quit, in the face of quest bugs, straight up skills that don't do anything, combat freezing, and the whole EU latency thing.

Until you can implement a system that works, is fun, challenging, sensible, logical? You're better off disabling gear decay. Especially for the next 2 days. Subscriptions are coming, and this ONE broken thing is going to be enough for people to cancel and walk away, given the frustration levels associated with such a buggy product.

babylon

Corithna wrote: »

I really don't know

Taking damage has nothing to do with durability loss to equipment. I tested this thoroughly. It's simply the act of killing mobs within your level range that causes your gear to suffer durability loss.

zeuseason

Why over complicate this right now?! Just massively reduce the repair cost and be done with this for a few months. Sheesh.

Arwyn

Ive been fighting low level mobs ALL NIGHT, taking damage all the time and 0 xp. My gear is at full repair.

Arwyn

Arwyn wrote: »

Ive been fighting low level mobs ALL NIGHT, taking damage all the time and 0 xp. My gear is at full repair.

6 low level dolmens now, 0xp gained, 0 decay.... this system needs a rework.

SootyTX

Knottypine wrote: »

SootyTX wrote: »

I just don't understand at all where you guys are spending your money

I'm supporting daily horse feeding for 5 characters, increased personal storage for those five up to 80 base slots, plus bank is at 90. I've spent money on pretty much every possible money sink in the game. And I'm currently sitting at about 30k in 'spare change' at level 37.

What else is there to spend money on??

I can ask you a similar question, what are you doing to have so much money to support 5 characters?

I'm not sure what my main (only level 24) base storage is, probably around 90 maybe, I have several more from feeding my horse. My bank is up to 100. I have a mule and crafter that I spend nothing on. If I had everything maxed out it wouldn't be so much of a problem. But for right now it's just too expensive for a lower character to repair... Not that I repair anything because I'm not about to waste my gold on it right now. It's just principle that I see no reason for it to cost as much as it does.

Absolutely nothing special. I'm simply running the quests and making sure I turn all the icons white by doing every dolman, dungeon and world boss at least once. I hardly sell anything except trash loot and potions.

I think, based on the comments in this thread, some characters are individually seeing greatly higher costs than most others. Several people have commented that they do not get the durability hits that some here are seeing. And I know it seems like a lot of people, but with the number playing, and watching this thread, I really think its a small number bugged in some way.

I intend to do some testing tonight to see exactly where I take durability hits from - I have multiple crafters that haven't done anything exciting for days so it will be easy to test and I'll post back

For now though, assuming the above is correct, I feel the repair costs are fairly in line with what I'd expect based on the income I get from killing mobs and quest rewards. I like that its not based on damage taken, as that makes it fair across ranged vs melee types. I also kind of like the concept of taking light damage from just 'stuff' (exploring, crafting etc), although it should be minimal. And I think that is where the discrepancy between different players exists - somehow that is affecting some far more than others.

Asava

What makes me shake my head is that I'm VR4 wearing VR1-3 armor. They sell to the merchants for around 40g a piece. Why the F does it cost me 1000g+ to repair the items every 2 hours? I feel like I'm being shook down by Obamacare over here.....

SootyTX

Some very quick test results;

Made 10 oric daggers (4450xp total) - zero damage
Travelled from Shornhelm to Daggerfall wayshrines - zero damage
Ran around Daggerfall, on foot and horse, learned a new recipe, talked to some NPCs - zero damage
Travvelled back to Shornhelm via wayshrine - zero damage
Explored a couple of new areas in Rivenspire, 3 total, each worth 275 xp - zero damage
Killed a single same level mob in melee without taking any damage in return - 1% damage to gauntlets

Now, other people are clearly experiencing different results to this, so rather than saying the system is a bad system, I think we really need to focus on the fact that some characters and/or interactions are bugged in some way.

I'll continue monitoring as I play one of my lower levels tonight to see if I capture any differences (i.e. could it be character or account based bugs somehow)

starkerealm

Corithna wrote: »

I really don't know where you guys are getting the idea that durability loss occurs from gaining XP or IP. I gain both with complete impunity to my durability.

Probably not. Keep in mind, via in game means, you can't tell when you take less than ~5% damage to an item. You can use an addon like Durameter to track smaller changes, though it won't display below 1% deterioration. Those of us using Durameter have noticed that it actually occurs on the kill, not on receiving damage.

Just cracking your inventory open after a fight and noticing, "oh, this time I took damage", v. tracking it during combat is a recipe for misleading assumptions about what's causing it.

Corithna wrote: »

You suffer a durability hit when you fail to block or avoid damage in combat, I.E. the finesse system. When you are doing it right you'll gain bonus experience and drops from mobs as well as avoiding those repair bills.

There's actually a distinct possibility that the increased deterioration we're seeing is because of the finesse system "rewarding" us. Again, damage is inflicted on kills.

Corithna wrote: »

No I don't manage to completely avoid them all the time. But I have good days and bad days where I'm either more or less responsive to the combat environment.

A good point was brought up earlier however concerning relative item levels, yes lower level gear does take a bigger bite to repair then does at level, or one level below your current. Again this is as intended to encourage players to keep their gear up to date. What is also not apparent to most people is the fact that at level gear does more then simply protect the player from harm. It also enhances the dps your character is capable of putting forth. Thus making combat all that much more simple.

The problem is, we're not talking about people holding onto one special piece of gear and then seeing it slag. In a lot of cases we're talking about players who are having to replace their gear as frequently as possible to avoid repair costs.

Corithna wrote: »

The major problem here is that many people have very bad habits from other MMO systems where certain behavior was a more viable option then it is here.

There's a real disconnect here between the trolls... and you... I'm assuming you're not actually, intentionally trolling.

You have people saying "go back and play Skyrim, this is nothing like that," and people saying, "you've learned bad habits in other MMOs, you need to learn to play." So, here's my question? Which is it? It can't be both. Has my 672 hours in Skyrim lead me astray here? Is that not how you play this? Actually, is Steam just screwing with me now? Or is it the 894 hours in Champions... no, Champions has a blocking system that's actually pretty important... can't be that.

Corithna wrote: »

The number one rule during your leveling campaign is this Keep you gear up to date! Even having just white gear until you hit 50 is perfectly okay in most instances.

That's good, because in most instances, the players in this thread can't afford anything better than white gear, because by the time they've leveled up enough to craft new gear, the old stuff is slagged.

Corithna wrote: »

Just so long as it is up to date. Beyond that make sure you avoiding/blocking the incoming hits, especially the heavy attacks. But given enough light attacks it can add up as well. One final note that you can see for yourself in game: Weapons take no durability hits whatsoever!

"Bugs in me game!? Unpossible!"

Corithna wrote: »

Shields however do take durability hits but given the extra armor afforded by both equipping a shield and actively blocking incoming attacks the repair bills are not that bad overall.

Your repair bills aren't. Players who are seeing 1k an hour from playing the same way you are (only without repairing their gear) would beg to differ.

Arwyn

Arwyn wrote: »

Arwyn wrote: »

Ive been fighting low level mobs ALL NIGHT, taking damage all the time and 0 xp. My gear is at full repair.

6 low level dolmens now, 0xp gained, 0 decay.... this system needs a rework.

I have now spend 7 hours in Glenumbra killing mobs, they have hit me I have hit them. Its been depressing.....


7 hours

0 Decay on my gear

0!!!! its xp based, In a game that gives extra xp for good play you dun *** up!! extra xp = extra loss!! its not a reward its a mark of failure!!

Arwyn

Dont ignore this ZoS, its clearly broken!! Come spend 1 minute with me, I invite you.

Arwyn

Actually this is a challenge, someone from the zos support, come play with me for an hour... you will see your own decay...

Arwyn

I just walked through lvl 1-20 content with mass damage to me and it didnt cost me a penny. either damage is wrong or no damage is wrong

Arwyn

If you think this is right , you're wrong!

Arwyn

I do kinda wonder if the support department care at all?

Bulwyf

It boggles the mind to see @Arwyn confirm that it is not damage but XP that incurs durability damage and no official response to it.