Rapid gear decay

Sendarya · May 2014

My husband and I both play sorcs, similar specs, and I craft both our armor (with a quest reward or drop here and there). We also recently noticed that gear sometimes takes stupid damage, and sometimes not. Yesterday we were out questing together, and his armor took WAAAY more dmg than mine, he was under 50% in less than an hour, though neither of us had died, and he is better at dodging than I am. I get run over by a mob, he dodges is, yet he got armor decay and I didn't.

When we got back to town, his armor bill was roughly twice mine. Now, the bills themselves are not an issue, as a crafter who sells a lot of my product, I'm fine. BUT having gear sometime completely broken after less than an hour of play, forcing you to fight naked or go back and repair is obviously a bug. Yes, to the person above, no one has SS so I guess it isn't proof, but there is more than enough anecdotal evidence here for them to look into it. I've Never played a game that required me to repair so often! And it IS just recent, and also only sometimes, so it seems to be a bug.

I sincerely hope you suffer the bug at some point, so you realize that having 0% gear with no deaths in less than 60 minutes is indeed an issue.

smosti · May 2014

Sendarya wrote: »

My husband and I both play sorcs, similar specs, and I craft both our armor (with a quest reward or drop here and there). We also recently noticed that gear sometimes takes stupid damage, and sometimes not. Yesterday we were out questing together, and his armor took WAAAY more dmg than mine, he was under 50% in less than an hour, though neither of us had died, and he is better at dodging than I am. I get run over by a mob, he dodges is, yet he got armor decay and I didn't.

When we got back to town, his armor bill was roughly twice mine. Now, the bills themselves are not an issue, as a crafter who sells a lot of my product, I'm fine. BUT having gear sometime completely broken after less than an hour of play, forcing you to fight naked or go back and repair is obviously a bug. Yes, to the person above, no one has SS so I guess it isn't proof, but there is more than enough anecdotal evidence here for them to look into it. I've Never played a game that required me to repair so often! And it IS just recent, and also only sometimes, so it seems to be a bug.

I sincerely hope you suffer the bug at some point, so you realize that having 0% gear with no deaths in less than 60 minutes is indeed an issue.

My god....thank you!

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO · May 2014

smosti wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

Woogawoman wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

You haven't really posted anything that would lead me to believe your gear is breaking in 30, unless you are straight mob grinding, in which case, tons of items/loot should be dropping to recoop your costs. Again, I say, what is it that you are doing that breaks your gear like it is.

Did you bother to read the first 20 pages of this thread?

Yes, I read through all the subjective reasoning of "my gear broke in 30 mins". Haven't really seen ANY post showing definitively one way or another. So I'm adding my two sense to the argument on the other side of the coin. I'm not excited to watch through a 30 min video of what your doing wrong in your "general" game play sessions, but I'm more then happy to do it.

Player A: Hmm my gear breaks after 30 mins of playing, I can't afford to foot the bill.

Player B: Hmm my gear rarely breaks after 30 mins of playing, sometimes last up to an hr straight. Vendors are all over the place and it seems pretty easy to just click the vendor and repair the gear. The bill is trivial since you make a ton of money anyways.

So all I'm trying to figure out, is, why is there a difference in subjective reasoning between player A and Player B.

Final Edit, I can't wait to hear the amount of comments that come up once progression starts and you make zero income and have to fix your gear. Good Luck.

4 questions ...

1. What rank are you
2. Are you running junk arse gear? (You must be)
3. Are you content with picking up any random junk item and swapping out your broke armor?
4. Have you ever worn 8 purple armor set pieces into a dungeon?

Please try step 4 then come across to side A.

1. Vet5 as noted in my sig.
2. I don't feel that I am, since I'm vet 5 I limit what I upgrade since I know I'll replace it
3. I go back to town and repair it, sell my junk gear and go right back at it. 5 mins tops.
4. Sure, but I can also have good days in dungeons and bad days. I exclusively have been pugging VR dungeons.

vyal · May 2014

It's pretty easy to prove, oxygen_boarderb16_ESO.

Repair your armor completely at any merchant.

Go and kill one mob of your level, with your armor equipped.

Go back to a merchant and see what the repair bill is. Post it in this thread.

As of patch 1.0.7, it was 4g per mob, for VR1, at least. Beyond that, there may be factors which we're trying to figure out in this thread that are causing rampant non-combat gear decay. If you want to help, help. Add a data point.

ZeBlade · May 2014

I just stop repairing. I did keep seeing this flash in the upper right of the screen telling me my armor was broken. It was red and 0 armor. Yet what got me is ..I didnt notice it at all fighting ANYTHING.

Then having to repair armor I am not even waring sometimes love that. Do you know how long ago I told them about this? WAAAAY before launch. Nice to see they are looking in to it.

Talking about gold: I did a quest the other day..you had to fork out 350G. The end of the quest you get like 46g..loved that quest! haha

starkerealm · May 2014

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

vyal wrote: »

ttwinklerub17_ESO wrote: »

... Depends if you have the capital.

Depending on RNG loot drops to break even? ESO is doing it wrong.

Negative, I said RNG determines your capital gains. I'm arguing with people who have a hard time making coins in game. I guess I'm just that much better at video games, if I can play normally and always turn a profit. Weird. I have had zero issues making money, just doing normal MMO stuff.

Because, as we all know, playing the lottery is 100% skill based with no random chance involved... wait...

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO · May 2014

Ok so I ran your test. I ran out, killed a jackal, took total repair damage of 1 coin, sold top grain hide for 2 coins. Win.

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO · May 2014

starkerealm wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

vyal wrote: »

ttwinklerub17_ESO wrote: »

... Depends if you have the capital.

Depending on RNG loot drops to break even? ESO is doing it wrong.

Negative, I said RNG determines your capital gains. I'm arguing with people who have a hard time making coins in game. I guess I'm just that much better at video games, if I can play normally and always turn a profit. Weird. I have had zero issues making money, just doing normal MMO stuff.

Because, as we all know, playing the lottery is 100% skill based with no random chance involved... wait...

I guess you can quote me by saying that my luck is better then yours. In most cases when someone consistently has better luck in random number generation, do we just equate it to being a lucky person, or is something they are doing ensure that the random numbers continue to favor them.

In this scenario, I was referring to the the random number of trash you accumulate, if you grind on mobs that drop nothing, you'll lose money, simple. If you grind on mobs that have a good chance to drop trash, you'll gain money.

starkerealm · May 2014

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

vyal wrote: »

ttwinklerub17_ESO wrote: »

... Depends if you have the capital.

Depending on RNG loot drops to break even? ESO is doing it wrong.

Negative, I said RNG determines your capital gains. I'm arguing with people who have a hard time making coins in game. I guess I'm just that much better at video games, if I can play normally and always turn a profit. Weird. I have had zero issues making money, just doing normal MMO stuff.

Because, as we all know, playing the lottery is 100% skill based with no random chance involved... wait...

I guess you can quote me by saying that my luck is better then yours. In most cases when someone consistently has better luck in random number generation, do we just equate it to being a lucky person, or is something they are doing ensure that the random numbers continue to favor them.

In this scenario, I was referring to the the random number of trash you accumulate, if you grind on mobs that drop nothing, you'll lose money, simple. If you grind on mobs that have a good chance to drop trash, you'll gain money.

I was referring to if you were affected by the actual rapid deterioration bug or not. If your armor isn't slagging to worthless every couple hours, you're probably not affected.

Fact is, if you are affected, your choices are using whatever crap gear drops and cycling through it constantly as the pieces break, using broken armor as a costume, or slogging back to town between every quest or so and then slogging back out.

While the money is the easy thing to track, and you can be smug and happy about how every critter you've ever killed drops an ornate, and that's how you can pay your bills, but the issue isn't the cost to repair gear, it's the speed the gear deteriorates. The cost is just a secondary consideration, and an easier metric to track.

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO · May 2014

starkerealm wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

vyal wrote: »

ttwinklerub17_ESO wrote: »

... Depends if you have the capital.

Depending on RNG loot drops to break even? ESO is doing it wrong.

Negative, I said RNG determines your capital gains. I'm arguing with people who have a hard time making coins in game. I guess I'm just that much better at video games, if I can play normally and always turn a profit. Weird. I have had zero issues making money, just doing normal MMO stuff.

Because, as we all know, playing the lottery is 100% skill based with no random chance involved... wait...

I guess you can quote me by saying that my luck is better then yours. In most cases when someone consistently has better luck in random number generation, do we just equate it to being a lucky person, or is something they are doing ensure that the random numbers continue to favor them.

In this scenario, I was referring to the the random number of trash you accumulate, if you grind on mobs that drop nothing, you'll lose money, simple. If you grind on mobs that have a good chance to drop trash, you'll gain money.

I was referring to if you were affected by the actual rapid deterioration bug or not. If your armor isn't slagging to worthless every couple hours, you're probably not affected.

Fact is, if you are affected, your choices are using whatever crap gear drops and cycling through it constantly as the pieces break, using broken armor as a costume, or slogging back to town between every quest or so and then slogging back out.

While the money is the easy thing to track, and you can be smug and happy about how every critter you've ever killed drops an ornate, and that's how you can pay your bills, but the issue isn't the cost to repair gear, it's the speed the gear deteriorates. The cost is just a secondary consideration, and an easier metric to track.

So everyone who thinks their gear is breaking to fast based on no real measure of how long gear is supposed to last is upset with the costs.
Got it. Moving on to more useful things. Good luck with your issues.

vyal · May 2014

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

Ok so I ran your test. I ran out, killed a jackal, took total repair damage of 1 coin, sold top grain hide for 2 coins. Win.

"A jackal" ? What was your level? What was the level of the target? Both VR5?

It isn't about what you gain from the creature, nor the cost, as has been enumerated repeatedly in this thread.

Among other things, it's the rapid decay rate. The damage rate. The PvE tax.

As oxygen.. has apparently moved on from the thread, anyone else care to add a data point? If so, please ensure you include your level, the level of the target, and whether or not you had just repaired.

It is concerning (to me, obviously) that he only pays 1g per fight, while I get the privilege of paying 4g for a fight.

starkerealm · May 2014

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

vyal wrote: »

ttwinklerub17_ESO wrote: »

... Depends if you have the capital.

Depending on RNG loot drops to break even? ESO is doing it wrong.

Negative, I said RNG determines your capital gains. I'm arguing with people who have a hard time making coins in game. I guess I'm just that much better at video games, if I can play normally and always turn a profit. Weird. I have had zero issues making money, just doing normal MMO stuff.

Because, as we all know, playing the lottery is 100% skill based with no random chance involved... wait...

I guess you can quote me by saying that my luck is better then yours. In most cases when someone consistently has better luck in random number generation, do we just equate it to being a lucky person, or is something they are doing ensure that the random numbers continue to favor them.

In this scenario, I was referring to the the random number of trash you accumulate, if you grind on mobs that drop nothing, you'll lose money, simple. If you grind on mobs that have a good chance to drop trash, you'll gain money.

I was referring to if you were affected by the actual rapid deterioration bug or not. If your armor isn't slagging to worthless every couple hours, you're probably not affected.

Fact is, if you are affected, your choices are using whatever crap gear drops and cycling through it constantly as the pieces break, using broken armor as a costume, or slogging back to town between every quest or so and then slogging back out.

While the money is the easy thing to track, and you can be smug and happy about how every critter you've ever killed drops an ornate, and that's how you can pay your bills, but the issue isn't the cost to repair gear, it's the speed the gear deteriorates. The cost is just a secondary consideration, and an easier metric to track.

So everyone who thinks their gear is breaking to fast based on no real measure of how long gear is supposed to last is upset with the costs.
Got it. Moving on to more useful things. Good luck with your issues.

Nice to know you think it's cool that other players are seeing their armor drop to 50% in 30 minutes of game time. After all, clearly, if you're getting sweet drops, screw everyone else, right?

starkerealm · May 2014

vyal wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

Ok so I ran your test. I ran out, killed a jackal, took total repair damage of 1 coin, sold top grain hide for 2 coins. Win.

"A jackal" ? What was your level? What was the level of the target? Both VR5?

It isn't about what you gain from the creature, nor the cost, as has been enumerated repeatedly in this thread.

Among other things, it's the rapid decay rate. The damage rate. The PvE tax.

As oxygen.. has apparently moved on from the thread, anyone else care to add a data point? If so, please ensure you include your level, the level of the target, and whether or not you had just repaired.

It is concerning (to me, obviously) that he only pays 1g per fight, while I get the privilege of paying 4g for a fight.

On a level 8, I got 14 off of 3 enemies, one of those was a boss, so that could be part of the issue. In Del's Claim. Though, I didn't have durameter installed, so it's possible some of that came from cracking a chest on the way in.

Guldendraak · May 2014

It would be nice to get a breakdown of the mechanics used to calculate gear decay from ZOS or Customer Service. It's not like it's the Colonels' secret blend of herbs and most MMO's are more than happy to actually interact/explain/communicate such things to their players.

I've continued my sub for the next month, but as I've said, I have grave concerns for end-game play if we're expected to run the same bosses multiple times a day just so we can replace our gear as it is destroyed on us (I still average 2-3 hours of game play before my gear is shagged). Yes, we can just make new stuff, but I'm betting bosses will drop better gear than what we can make - otherwise, what is the use of having end-game content ;p

Woogawoman · May 2014

You do realize that most hard-to-track-down bugs are, you know, hard to track down because they are inconsistent based on obvious factors, right?. You have to do the research to find the things that are actually similar among the folks affected and show that those not affected by the bug don't share those attributes/traits/conditions. Just saying "it doesn't affect me, so it can't be affecting you" would be like saying "I didn't get sick from that cruise ship buffet line, so obviously the 300 people who did get sick got it from something else." Perhaps you didn't eat the chicken salad, and they did.

martinb16_ESO80 · May 2014

From my experience, and from entries on this thread, I believe most of the rapid gear decay occurs when you are grouped and one of you fights several enemies, and you get loot/xp from those mobs .

Also, as mentioned before this occurs random, which means most days it is fine, and then you might even get gear decay when crafting items.

I have not gone broke but if it costs more to repair an item than to replace it, something is definitely wrong.

Darzil · May 2014

Well, have done a little bit of study in the early 30's, with level 29-32 green/blue kit and level 33 mobs at level 34.

On every monster I kill (or part kill if others are around), I lose 1-2% (2% then 1% per piece, then back to 2% etc) on one random piece of armour. At 80 durability, that is costing around 2.25g per % repaired per piece, or 4.5g per monster killed. In solo combat, a monster that drops gold drops 3g. If others were also killing it, then it can be 1g. Bears were dropping 0-2 leather scraps, usually 0, which sell at 2g each. In 12 Thralls killed I got 2 drops, worth 71g if sold. At this point, therefore, Thralls are meat positive if I'm killing solo, bears are meat negative. Hard to say if Thralls would be meat positive grouped, depending on how much drops are reduced at this time.

I'd have to say, that at present I haven't been seeing a major issue. However, I have stopped using my nightblade siphon (it's great, but it's maxed, so I'm training others), so I'm not randomly healing others. I might see how using it affects my durability.

Of course, running naked changes your income solo killing monsters from -1.5g plus drops to 3g plus drops, probably doubling your income!

starkerealm · May 2014

Maybe this is a fluke, but my decay rates seem almost reasonable on my Covenant Sorceror this morning. So far, gaming for a couple hours, I'm out ~225 gold for repairs. And I've pulled in a couple hundred over that...

starkerealm · May 2014

babylon wrote: »

Arwyn wrote: »

Were you getting decay?

L50 mobs in non-vet areas cause item decay to VR ranked players.

No xp, but they still drop items, therefore you get item decay.

Item drops = gear decay. This is a PVE tax.

It cannot be drops. I just got degradation on non-dropping enemies that were at level and awarding combat XP.

babylon · May 2014

starkerealm wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Arwyn wrote: »

Were you getting decay?

L50 mobs in non-vet areas cause item decay to VR ranked players.

No xp, but they still drop items, therefore you get item decay.

Item drops = gear decay. This is a PVE tax.

It cannot be drops. I just got degradation on non-dropping enemies that were at level and awarding combat XP.

It's mobs that can drop, mobs that are within your level range. As for whether or not those mobs actually do drop, that's down to the RNG.

It's drops and not xp because L50 mobs in the normal areas drop items but don't give xp to VR ranked players, but still cause gear to decay.

This is why it's a PVE Tax - it's a tax on ability to earn (through drops).

mark2472 · May 2014

starkerealm wrote: »

Maybe this is a fluke, but my decay rates seem almost reasonable on my Covenant Sorceror this morning. So far, gaming for a couple hours, I'm out ~225 gold for repairs. And I've pulled in a couple hundred over that...

Seems like a hit or miss for me... Seems like some days I can play for a few hours and only have a repair bill of a few hundred as you are saying. Then, at other times, it seems like I get a repair bill of nearly triple that for no apparent reason (no dying, playing the same way I was when I had the small repair bill).

Darzil · May 2014

mark2472 wrote: »

Seems like a hit or miss for me... Seems like some days I can play for a few hours and only have a repair bill of a few hundred as you are saying. Then, at other times, it seems like I get a repair bill of nearly triple that for no apparent reason (no dying, playing the same way I was when I had the small repair bill).

Do you have any abilities that heal or buff others, or were there others around? It seems very easy for decay per monster killed to stay high whilst income and drops go down when others are hitting / contributing to monster defeats.

starkerealm · May 2014

babylon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Arwyn wrote: »

Were you getting decay?

L50 mobs in non-vet areas cause item decay to VR ranked players.

No xp, but they still drop items, therefore you get item decay.

Item drops = gear decay. This is a PVE tax.

It cannot be drops. I just got degradation on non-dropping enemies that were at level and awarding combat XP.

It's mobs that can drop, mobs that are within your level range. As for whether or not those mobs actually do drop, that's down to the RNG.

It's drops and not xp because L50 mobs in the normal areas drop items but don't give xp to VR ranked players, but still cause gear to decay.

This is why it's a PVE Tax - it's a tax on ability to earn (through drops).

Yeah, I agree that it's mobs within your level range, (the ones that can drop items, give XP (except for once you've hit Vet), and build ultimate). Maybe I misread what you posted earlier, but it sounded like you were saying the dropped items themselves were incurring the deterioration, which didn't, and doesn't, make sense.

starkerealm · May 2014

mark2472 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Maybe this is a fluke, but my decay rates seem almost reasonable on my Covenant Sorceror this morning. So far, gaming for a couple hours, I'm out ~225 gold for repairs. And I've pulled in a couple hundred over that...

Seems like a hit or miss for me... Seems like some days I can play for a few hours and only have a repair bill of a few hundred as you are saying. Then, at other times, it seems like I get a repair bill of nearly triple that for no apparent reason (no dying, playing the same way I was when I had the small repair bill).

Well... um... crap.

Let's hope they get a real fix out for this.

Arwyn · May 2014

Ok, well i put a ton of effort into getting support to realise a problem with vet level provisioning mats, time to put some zeal into this.

This is unacceptable, when Craglorn goes live people will shy from playing it if repairs are like this. Even wow had this problem once, so its not new, its not something you cant resolve.

If you dont solve this before you release raid content you will have a mass exodus in your hands.

Dont do a FF on us.....

babylon · May 2014

starkerealm wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Arwyn wrote: »

Were you getting decay?

L50 mobs in non-vet areas cause item decay to VR ranked players.

No xp, but they still drop items, therefore you get item decay.

Item drops = gear decay. This is a PVE tax.

It cannot be drops. I just got degradation on non-dropping enemies that were at level and awarding combat XP.

It's mobs that can drop, mobs that are within your level range. As for whether or not those mobs actually do drop, that's down to the RNG.

It's drops and not xp because L50 mobs in the normal areas drop items but don't give xp to VR ranked players, but still cause gear to decay.

This is why it's a PVE Tax - it's a tax on ability to earn (through drops).

Yeah, I agree that it's mobs within your level range, (the ones that can drop items, give XP (except for once you've hit Vet), and build ultimate). Maybe I misread what you posted earlier, but it sounded like you were saying the dropped items themselves were incurring the deterioration, which didn't, and doesn't, make sense.

No it's as above, mobs within level range that can drop items = gear decay.

Blackwolfe5 · May 2014

In most games, keeping your armor in shape is a good thing and you are encouraged to always keep your armor repaired whenever possible. Heck, even in Dark Souls, which is a very punishing game!

In ESO, currently.. not really, unless you want run out of money really quick if doing PvE.

mark2472 · May 2014

Darzil wrote: »

mark2472 wrote: »

Seems like a hit or miss for me... Seems like some days I can play for a few hours and only have a repair bill of a few hundred as you are saying. Then, at other times, it seems like I get a repair bill of nearly triple that for no apparent reason (no dying, playing the same way I was when I had the small repair bill).

Do you have any abilities that heal or buff others, or were there others around? It seems very easy for decay per monster killed to stay high whilst income and drops go down when others are hitting / contributing to monster defeats.

I do have an ability that heals others, and I use it all the time. May be that, idk...
It's the Templar instant heal that I morphed to heal up to 3 players.

Amaylia · May 2014

babylon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Arwyn wrote: »

Were you getting decay?

L50 mobs in non-vet areas cause item decay to VR ranked players.

No xp, but they still drop items, therefore you get item decay.

Item drops = gear decay. This is a PVE tax.

It cannot be drops. I just got degradation on non-dropping enemies that were at level and awarding combat XP.

It's mobs that can drop, mobs that are within your level range. As for whether or not those mobs actually do drop, that's down to the RNG.

It's drops and not xp because L50 mobs in the normal areas drop items but don't give xp to VR ranked players, but still cause gear to decay.

This is why it's a PVE Tax - it's a tax on ability to earn (through drops).

Yeah, I agree that it's mobs within your level range, (the ones that can drop items, give XP (except for once you've hit Vet), and build ultimate). Maybe I misread what you posted earlier, but it sounded like you were saying the dropped items themselves were incurring the deterioration, which didn't, and doesn't, make sense.

No it's as above, mobs within level range that can drop items = gear decay.

This theory has a giant hole in it. It fails to explain why durability damage occurs when gaining exploration XP. It is likely incorrect.

bunnytrix · May 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

After thoroughly testing the armor decay system, we found that everything is working as it was designed.

I just do not believe this is true, and if it is then it really is terrible design. Last night I quested around Grahtwood for just over 1 hour. I'm Nightblade using bow and pretty much all ranged attacks. Before I quested I had repaired to 100% in Elden Root. So I did a few quests, did 1 dark anchor, killed whatever mobs were in my way as I explored, killed a couple of quest mini bosses in caves. Did not die at all; nearly all the mobs I killed were at range and roughly the same level, and most were dead before they got within melee range. I had a quite enjoyable hour or so.....
When I got back to Elden Root and went to check my gear, my repair cost was 782g. So this super high repair cost is intended ? The amount of loot I got from my questing was less than half of this amount...so this seems to me to either be a bug or some kind of miscalculation in how armor decay/repair cost is being worked out, as I really should not have less gold from a 1 hour normal play session then what I had before I started, with no deaths (and no dungeons/loads of trash etc). I am saving for a horse so I am being very wise with my spending etc until I get it. This feels like I am being punished for just playing the game normally.
I been playing MMO's a long time, I play a lot of them, I've never seen such high repair costs or gear decaying so fast in any game ever. In fact it seems from normal play in this game that repair costs/gear decay is higher than the repair costs you have from heroic raiding in WOW or Nightmare raids in SWTOR with wipes etc.
This is intended ?