ESO PvP is Finished: Home of the Vets

drwoody44b14_ESO

ITT: Low levels crying about how they dont want to level up to compete with those that did.

Skiy41

If I may post a comment from my own post a few threads down:
This is in no way a whine post from a casual player. I really like this game. I really like how levelling to 50 takes time in this game, and how the game is not catering to casuals - how things must be earned with time. However there is a difference between this concept and the current veteran system ESO at the moment.

Currently, after hitting level 50, the players at veteran rank 10 have far superior gear to us at veteran rank 1, meaning that I cannot compete with them in small scale (or large scale) PvP. Since I am getting virtually no exp from participating in PvP in Cyrodiil, I am being forced by the game to trudge through another 100+ hours of playtime in PvE questing and (occasional) dungeon content that I have NO INTEREST in doing, in order to compete with other players at max veteran rank in PvP. Don't get me wrong, questing is fine, and often enjoyable in ESO, but the 70+hours I spent on it to get to level 50 is more than enough in my eyes. I should now be allowed to play the game in PvP how I want to without being punished for not doing more PvE content.

Currently, the hardcore PvE players have an advantage over the hardcore PvP players in our own field of PvP. I find this ridiculous, and for me personally, it is gamebreaking. It needs change

zerberr

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

zerberr wrote: »

Can we just have 2-3 campaigns with special rules, i.e, no vets? That would be easiest way and surely would fix the problem.

So you want to take away the Engdame PVP progression from the PVP endgame?...........

What are you talking about? How one or two separate campaigns for non-vet "newbies" will take away progress? VR10's can have whatever fun they want, in their own campaigns, without non-vet easykills.

lao

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Vets are now OP in PvP...Pure and Simple

Seige weapons don't work against them. Anyone below lvl 50 is cannon fodder. NPCs can't touch them. Even lower ranked vets are worthless.

All of the "fail-safe mechanics" that worked at launch on lower lvls such as NPC cover and seige weapons are now worthless. This game has now just desolved into an arms race of "who has the bigger vet zerg" like other MMORPGs rather then who has the most skill.

IF balance isn't restored like it existed in the first week this game's PvP is done. Will the "elite guilds" continue to fight it out? Yes. Will the rest of us be there to spectate? Most unlikely...

woah game isnt even out a month yet and we got one of those threads already. that was fast lol.

newsflash: if those "elite" guilds would die to ur zerg of randoms something would be horribly wrong with the game. THEN pvp would actually be broken. the way it is shows that its fine.

u cant expect to put no effort into the game (lowbies compared to vr5+) then refuse to use TS and organize urself for whatever idiotic reason and still demand to be competitive with the ones who do.

srsly am i the only one realizing how ridiculous ur idea of pvp is? ive said it before and ill say it again. if u wanna be successful in pvp it should require a massive effort. that means gaining the required lvl to compete just as learning the game´s in and outs and also using voicecom to get the best possible teamplay. if u refuse to do all that and just casually hop in u deserve to be food to those "elite guilds"

nevertheless this game, just like any other modern mmo is build in a way that is catering to ur needs as ridiculous as they may be. ull always have the numbers advantage against those groups. use it. if u still die, well maybe ur just not anywhere near as good as they are. in that case, again game is working as intended.

dont take this as a personal attack. u pay ur sub, ur free to play the game in whatever way u see fit but dont come here and demand the game to be changed to fit ur casual playstyle. pvp is of competitive nature afterall. that means u have to work for success. if u dont wanna do that thats fine, theres a ton of pve content for you. dont come here and try to ruin pvp for all the ppl who actually spend alot of time on it just so u can have a little fun during the 2 hours per week u go to cyrodiil.

/thread

zerberr

Once again and slow.

Different. Campaigns.

To fit whatever playstyles might be - for casual 2-hours-a-week players, for die-hard-pwn-you-all-elite players. Incidentally segregation by levels (or at least veteran status) will work fine. It was good enoung week ago, when everyone was scaled to lv50. But as soon as hordes of powerleveled vets rushed in - it became "vet's home".

Game should be fun, and fun for everyone. Logic saying "if you not spending 16 hours a day grinding than you should suffer" is deeply deeply flawed.
Otherwise we can just ask for "pay 2 win" content, to counter kids who can grind non-stop.

If you want to see truly fair pvp, look at WWIIOnline. Everyone can be good there.

TheGrandAlliance

Yasha wrote: »

This game was never about balanced pvp and has no "fail-safe mechanics".

Yes it does... perhaps my revised opening post will make this point more easier to understand.

TheGrandAlliance

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

ITT: Low levels crying about how they dont want to level up to compete with those that did.

Again... this thread relates to all forms of combat... whether lvl 10 vs VR10 or VR 10 vs VR 10. Leveling up does not solve this problem.

Wolfaen

ESO PvP is not finished.. The biggest problem I see here is that the Upleveled bonuses are too low for those 10-49 so they are far too weak compared to VR players. This is going to discourage lower level people to play PvP because they are tired of getting rolled over and over without having a chance and having to spend 5 minutes running back. They are sticking with it for now because it is new and fresh, but more and more of them will not come back if this continues. It is going to get old quickly for lower levels and we will see a vast decline in Cyrodiil population because of this. Even if more and more people are getting level 50, I don't see the population in Cyrodiil ever being able to recover from this unless there are drastic changes to the balance.

You guys may say this game wasn't meant to be balanced, but when it comes down to it, people will only stay with a game for PvP if it is balanced. I love TES games and PvP so I really want TESO to succeed, but this is not a good start. I forsee a vast number of people getting discouraged and not returning to PvP because of this. And guess what? The less people there are in a campaign the more a zerg is going to be encouraged and I for one do not want this game to turn into GW2 WvW zerging to the point where there is just one zerg running around from each faction.

As I have stated before I still think VR players should have an advantage, but I think it is too large of an advantage in its current state.

Cydone

Vets are now OP in PvP...Pure and Simple

Seige weapons don't work against them. Anyone below lvl 50 is cannon fodder. NPCs can't touch them. Even lower ranked vets are worthless.

All of the "fail-safe mechanics" that worked at launch on lower lvls such as NPC cover and seige weapons are now worthless. This game has now just desolved into an arms race of "who has the bigger vet zerg" like other MMORPGs rather then who has the most skill.

IF balance isn't restored like it existed in the first week this game's PvP is done. Will the "elite guilds" continue to fight it out? Yes. Will the rest of us be there to spectate? Most unlikely...

Why should people that haven't spent the time in game be able to get the same, or close to it, rewards compared to someone who has?? This is an MMO people! As much as a lot of ppl don't want to admit it, it is. MMO's have always been and will always be something that you have to invest time into. The more time you invest, generally the better you are rewarded. Either through character progression, or profession abilities or better survivability in PvP.

There should be NO way for someone, that hasn't invested the time into progressing their character, to be able to have the same survivability or stats or character/profession skills as someone that has. If you can't find the time to invest in the game because of a job or kids or a wife or w/e, you shouldn't be rewarded on the same level or close to it when compared to someone else who can find the time to invest into the game. Period

LadyChaos

awkwarrd wrote: »

Soban wrote: »

You should probably be complaining about how you aren't able to reach vet ranks at a reasonable speed with just PvP.

This ^^

I hate to plug my own thread..
But go vote..
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/74423/pvp-rewards/p1

@ awkwarrd I hate when I disagree with you, because I think you lobby for your cause very well.. even when I don't agree with it, but I respect it

Vets are end game payers. They have done that been there in multiple zones (NOT JUST CYRODIIL), they have grinded, quested, name killed enough to be slightlty and exponentially more badass than the res of us by pure experience. They did not sit in one zone and refuse to do anything but exactly what they wanted at any given time, but made them selves competitive to their peers.

PvP is competitive. There is no crying in PvP. Do what you have to do to be better than your enemy or watch them dance on your corpse. A PvP player saying "it is not fair" is an insult to PvP. IDC what rule is made, if its players with red hair get 10% crit bonus you make red hair... if you are about PvP you are about winning, not changing. Crying about fair is for PvE.

Vets did what those who keep boycotting refuse to do and are now reaping their rewards for being competitive players. Get competative or stop saying you are a pure PvP player (no particular names intended).

PvP is competition...

lao

LadyChaos wrote: »

awkwarrd wrote: »

Soban wrote: »

You should probably be complaining about how you aren't able to reach vet ranks at a reasonable speed with just PvP.

This ^^

I hate to plug my own thread..
But go vote..
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/74423/pvp-rewards/p1

@ awkwarrd I hate when I disagree with you, because I think you lobby for your cause very well.. even when I don't agree with it, but I respect it

Vets are end game payers. They have done that been there in multiple zones (NOT JUST CYRODIIL), they have grinded, quested, name killed enough to be slightlty and exponentially more badass than the res of us by pure experience. They did not sit in one zone and refuse to do anything but exactly what they wanted at any given time, but made them selves competitive to their peers.

PvP is competitive. There is no crying in PvP. Do what you have to do to be better than your enemy or watch them dance on your corpse. A PvP player saying "it is not fair" is an insult to PvP. IDC what rule is made, if its players with red hair get 10% crit bonus you make red hair... if you are about PvP you are about winning, not changing. Crying about fair is for PvE.

Vets did what those who keep boycotting refuse to do and are now reaping their rewards for being competitive players. Get competative or stop saying you are a pure PvP player (no particular names intended).

PvP is competition...

Amen

TheGrandAlliance

Cydone wrote: »

There should be NO way for someone, that hasn't invested the time into progressing their character, to be able to have the same survivability or stats or character/profession skills as someone that has. If you can't find the time to invest in the game because of a job or kids or a wife or w/e, you shouldn't be rewarded on the same level or close to it when compared to someone else who can find the time to invest into the game. Period

Again... this post has nothing to do with the point of my thread. This situation of seige/NPCs being worthless and not able to keep "the balance" exists even if 100% of player population is VR10 Legendary Gear.

Cydone

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

There should be NO way for someone, that hasn't invested the time into progressing their character, to be able to have the same survivability or stats or character/profession skills as someone that has. If you can't find the time to invest in the game because of a job or kids or a wife or w/e, you shouldn't be rewarded on the same level or close to it when compared to someone else who can find the time to invest into the game. Period

Again... this post has nothing to do with the point of my thread. This situation of seige/NPCs being worthless and not able to keep "the balance" exists even if 100% of player population is VR10 Legendary Gear.

I do think that the siege equipment needs to do more damage to the VR ranked ppl, especially the VR8's and above. But as far as the NPC's go, they need to be balanced with the entirety of the pvp community in mind. Having the NPC's being like a VR5 or something would mean that if the lower level ppl were to group up and try to take a keep, they would get owned really, REALLY fast by the NPC's. Player level is one thing, NPC level is another.

Ramanadjinn

LadyChaos wrote: »

PvP is competition...

Competition won by earning your levels the hard way!

Put your 10 hours into grinding PVE mobs to 50 like the rest of us!

vyndral13preub18_ESO

If you could level through pvp at any real speed it wouldnt matter so much. Being casual im only level 18. Been pvping on and off since 10. It is a blast. I love it. But after an hour or so i always end up thinking, i have to leave. Leveling to 50 in there would take forever. Id like to have a fighting chance sometime this year. I dont mind getting smoked cause i am low level. I do mind being low level for the next decade.

Phoenix99

I am not sure why people are getting mad about this. Sure I got frustrated as well when i was spending 95% of my time in PvP and now i am underleveled and undergeared to VR8-10 that show up (myself just hitting lvl 47 once i returned yesterday to PvE), but in this type of a game you cannot expect that those with top levels be on same power level that the ones without it.

It's not an e-sport, I dare to say it's not even competitive (because it was not designed as such). You want a competitive PvP, go play Coutnerstrike, Starcraft, DotA or some other MOBA, FPS, RTS.

This game is nothing more but MMO game with PvP component. The PvP component needs balance, but not in terms of levels power curve, but class skills and WW, Vampire skills. It really shows that it was designed with PvE balance first, and PvP will come later (one of big points to this was the lack of VR levels and vampire, werewolf templates in massive pre-release open betas).

Perhaps the levels power curve needs some minor adjustments, but it's really secondary to skill sets.

What I do not like however is the huge exp gains gap between PvE and PvP contents, but this is yet another proof of PvE being the primary focus before the launch.

Censorious

Almost the definition of a QQ thread.

If you don't like being 1-shotted by a toon 30 levels above you, go play WoW.

Oh, wait...

beravinprb19_ESO

Censorious wrote: »

Almost the definition of a QQ thread.

If you don't like being 1-shotted by a toon 30 levels above you, go play WoW.

Oh, wait...

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but... I think getting one shot, in a PvP game, is a stupid thing regardless of the circumstances in which it happened. Getting one shot effectively means you can't play the game. Telling people to go PvE and level is not exactly the best way to attract more PvP players. And trust me, with how empty all the campaigns are, attracting more PvP players should be a priority. At least, thats how I see it.

Cydone

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

Almost the definition of a QQ thread.

If you don't like being 1-shotted by a toon 30 levels above you, go play WoW.

Oh, wait...

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but... I think getting one shot, in a PvP game, is a stupid thing regardless of the circumstances in which it happened. Getting one shot effectively means you can't play the game. Telling people to go PvE and level is not exactly the best way to attract more PvP players. And trust me, with how empty all the campaigns are, attracting more PvP players should be a priority. At least, thats how I see it.

If you are 30 levels below the player that killed you, then yes, you should get one shotted, or damn close to it. And there are plenty of ppl in the campaigns, especially in the first one, wabbajack, skull crusher and a couple others. The main reason that there aren't more ppl in them is because of the difficulty in leveling in the PvP zone. During the beta's, there were literally TONS of ppl pvping. Almost EVERY campaign was full for all 3 factions. It was close to the same right when early access started. THEN, they nerfed the repeatable kill 20 players quest to being a once a day mission. This is exactly when most of the campaigns saw a major lose in population. The repeatable quest kept more ppl pvping because it offered decent xp/gold/ap and was relatively easy to complete. I would wager that if ZOS put back the ability to repeat that particular quest, the pvp population on every campaign would jump up, by a LOT.

driosketch

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

Almost the definition of a QQ thread.

If you don't like being 1-shotted by a toon 30 levels above you, go play WoW.

Oh, wait...

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but... I think getting one shot, in a PvP game, is a stupid thing regardless of the circumstances in which it happened. Getting one shot effectively means you can't play the game. Telling people to go PvE and level is not exactly the best way to attract more PvP players. And trust me, with how empty all the campaigns are, attracting more PvP players should be a priority. At least, thats how I see it.

If you are 30 levels below the player that killed you, then yes, you should get one shotted, or damn close to it. And there are plenty of ppl in the campaigns, especially in the first one, wabbajack, skull crusher and a couple others. The main reason that there aren't more ppl in them is because of the difficulty in leveling in the PvP zone. During the beta's, there were literally TONS of ppl pvping. Almost EVERY campaign was full for all 3 factions. It was close to the same right when early access started. THEN, they nerfed the repeatable kill 20 players quest to being a once a day mission. This is exactly when most of the campaigns saw a major lose in population. The repeatable quest kept more ppl pvping because it offered decent xp/gold/ap and was relatively easy to complete. I would wager that if ZOS put back the ability to repeat that particular quest, the pvp population on every campaign would jump up, by a LOT.

During the last beta weekend only four campaigns were full, three balanced and the fourth somehow became all AD.

Wolfaen wrote: »

ESO PvP is not finished.. The biggest problem I see here is that the Upleveled bonuses are too low for those 10-49 so they are far too weak compared to VR players. This is going to discourage lower level people to play PvP because they are tired of getting rolled over and over without having a chance and having to spend 5 minutes running back. They are sticking with it for now because it is new and fresh, but more and more of them will not come back if this continues. It is going to get old quickly for lower levels and we will see a vast decline in Cyrodiil population because of this. Even if more and more people are getting level 50, I don't see the population in Cyrodiil ever being able to recover from this unless there are drastic changes to the balance.

You guys may say this game wasn't meant to be balanced, but when it comes down to it, people will only stay with a game for PvP if it is balanced. I love TES games and PvP so I really want TESO to succeed, but this is not a good start. I forsee a vast number of people getting discouraged and not returning to PvP because of this. And guess what? The less people there are in a campaign the more a zerg is going to be encouraged and I for one do not want this game to turn into GW2 WvW zerging to the point where there is just one zerg running around from each faction.

As I have stated before I still think VR players should have an advantage, but I think it is too large of an advantage in its current state.

Totally agree with this. Two things discourage players from spending time in PvP. One is population imbalanced. The other is low level players realizing they can't compete in Cyrodiil sub 50 and returning to PvE. I've seen both during the betas. I see both now.

Yasha

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

This game was never about balanced pvp and has no "fail-safe mechanics".

Yes it does... perhaps my revised opening post will make this point more easier to understand.

Its not that I didn't understand what you were trying to say, it is that I do not agree that those things were ever meant to be "fail safe mechanics".

They only seemed that way because no one was at a high level at launch.

The pvp in this game is what it is. Higher levels will crush lower levels. Lower levels can still contribute through scouting, siege and, shear weight of numbers. There is no pretence of balance.

Wolfaen

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

Almost the definition of a QQ thread.

If you don't like being 1-shotted by a toon 30 levels above you, go play WoW.

Oh, wait...

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but... I think getting one shot, in a PvP game, is a stupid thing regardless of the circumstances in which it happened. Getting one shot effectively means you can't play the game. Telling people to go PvE and level is not exactly the best way to attract more PvP players. And trust me, with how empty all the campaigns are, attracting more PvP players should be a priority. At least, thats how I see it.

If you are 30 levels below the player that killed you, then yes, you should get one shotted, or damn close to it. And there are plenty of ppl in the campaigns, especially in the first one, wabbajack, skull crusher and a couple others. The main reason that there aren't more ppl in them is because of the difficulty in leveling in the PvP zone. During the beta's, there were literally TONS of ppl pvping. Almost EVERY campaign was full for all 3 factions. It was close to the same right when early access started. THEN, they nerfed the repeatable kill 20 players quest to being a once a day mission. This is exactly when most of the campaigns saw a major lose in population. The repeatable quest kept more ppl pvping because it offered decent xp/gold/ap and was relatively easy to complete. I would wager that if ZOS put back the ability to repeat that particular quest, the pvp population on every campaign would jump up, by a LOT.

@beravinprb19_ESO‌
Yes, yes, and yes. Finally someone says something about attracting players to PvP rather and deterring them. Having VR players as strong as they are is discouraging other to join PvP. The population of Cyrodiil will keep declining even if more and more people are hitting 50.

@Cydone‌
I agree if they made leveling in PvP viable again then the population would rise, but I disagree that anyone should be able to one shot another player in PvP. Do you really think people will stay around if this happens to them over and over. Like the above comment, we want to attract players to PvP not deter them. The less people there are in Cyrdoiil the more stale it becomes. And no not all the campaigns were full in Beta. Maybe three of the ten or so were full. The rest were ghost zones.

And to all the people that are saying "go level or get over it" and "we deserve to be way more powerful because we worked for this," your mentality on a PvP basis is skewed. Firstly, not everyone has the time to spend 8-14 hours a day playing ESO. Casual players shouldn't be punished for having a life outside the game and should not be forced to PvE when they are able to play. Secondly, yes you should be more powerful than lower levels, but your advantage is too significant. Raise the up-leveled base stats slightly and I think it will be a better environment for everyone.

Is it really that enjoyable for a VR player to wipe the floor with up-leveled players? Maybe it is for some, but for me I can't see it being that rewarding. It takes no skill to win, just a lot of grinding in PvE. I love Cyrodiil, but the current state of PvP is pretty rough in my opinion.

crimsonBZD

I have to take a moment, at the dear bottom of this thread, to take my time out to say that I believe if your'e at least lvl 20 you should have NO ISSUE in PvP.

I kill VR ranks every time I'm in there.

If you just run into PvP like "I want to test out my abilities against an enemy player" you're gunna have a bad time...

If you run into PvP like "Me and my group are funna take this keep." You will have a good time.

Also, a little anecdotal story, I was running with a Zerg to take BRF, by the time I got there we had made a gap in both walls and were actually starting to filter in through the castle. I made it before someone let off some fire near the door (which destroyed my VR buddy who was shortly behind me, mind you)
and ran up to the top of the keep to start wailing on kids who were blind using their engines. I got to the top and there was a VR rank Sorc with both his pets up there in the middle area, on the top. So, I chained pulled him, and through 1 or two catapults that had decided to turn around and aim at me, I killed the VR rank shortly before being ganked by nearly every individual on a seige engine.

If anything, I'm a little dissapointed that VR ranks aren't stronger.

If you're max rank in this game rolling proper armour, you should rip through a Zerg of non-VR players without too much trouble.

Monstein

This has really seemed more like a debate between hard core and casual players. Reminds when of when I first did a raid in WoW. We had a guild member at lvl30ish just moan and cry and throw a fit because we could not take them along. They wanted to only raid and not deal with the boring stuff to get there and pissed off because if we came to help them level faster we would one shot the mobs so it took any fun that was there out of it.

No matter what at the end of the day you will have people who do not want to do something and want the same challenge at lvl1 that a v10 gets on the same content.

NordJitsu

crimsonBZD wrote: »

I got to the top and there was a VR rank Sorc with both his pets up there in the middle area, on the top.

Lemme stop you right there.

If you ran into a VR Sorc with pets in PvP, then he is a terrible player. Pets are garbage right now.

This situation would likely not have happened if he were competent.

The only way for Battle Leveled players to beat VR players is if the Battle Leveled player is much more skilled. Which I think is the way it should be.

Zintair

People need to take a deep breathe and give it time. 90% of the game players are still leveling up. There are only 200~ or so VR 10's on the US servers.

I still take heavy damage from siege etc and the advantage isn't so over the top that I am invincible at VR 10.

Dragonknights on the other hand.... I hope ZoS is looking into their OP standard.

The only class make up that has truly stood out from the rest.

Vamp DK with Standard Ultimate and Sword and Shield. VERY difficult to kill with groups of people even.

Redsun

No point playing pvp unless you are VR rank. Anything 50 and below get roll over.

Make battlegrounds content for only lvl50 and below because Cyrodiil is a VR heaven.

LadyChaos

Ramanadjinn wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

PvP is competition...

Competition won by earning your levels the hard way!

Put your 10 hours into grinding PVE mobs to 50 like the rest of us!

I'm in Cyrodiil everyday sweety since 5-day pre-launch, and still not VET... I'll be yer huckleberry.

If your professor says you can use pencil, pen, or crayon to write your essay; Don't cry that it's taking you forever to do it in ruby red crayola, because you thought pens and pencils were for carebear weenies. Enjoy your version of elitism and your crayons, but try to keep the tears off your neighbors desk a little more.

Censorious

Eh? Why do people persist in saying low-level is no good in PvP?
It's utter nonsense.
It might take you half a dozen shots to kill a vet and maybe a vet could one-shot you. The idea is not to get yourself into such a bloody silly situation.
I'm not a particularly 'good' player, I'm slow, clumsy, often hit the wrong button but I think ahead. I don't rush into situations and I pick my fights carefully - something this game REALLY lets you do.
Right now I'm level 30.
I rarely die unless I get ambushed - even then my chances are fair to middling on escape. I'm always in the front line skirmishes around a keep battle and I get my 20 kills-per-day with no effort at all.

xhrit

What is the point of battle leveling characters, if after the first month they are worthless in pvp?

Why not just let level 40 characters have a huge advantage over level 20 characters, the way VR10 characters have a huge advantage over level 40 characters?

It seems like a kinda pointless mechanic if battle leveled characters are just going to be destroyed by real leveled characters.