Population shrinking, PLEASE do something
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭manukartofanu wrote: »Interpreting the requests to fix bugs as demands for less content is quite a stretch, to say the least.
No. Not really. Many of these posts volunteered content as tribute unprompted by the developers and openly stated they'd rather have bug fixes than content. When they first announced they were cutting the content, a lot of us who said this was bad and bug fixing should be happening simultaneously were disagreed with and people said they'd rather have a more polished game than new content.
So, I think there was a pretty clear demand for devs to stop making so much new content and focus on fixing performance.7 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
No. Not really. Many of these posts volunteered content as tribute unprompted by the developers and openly stated they'd rather have bug fixes than content. When they first announced they were cutting the content, a lot of us who said this was bad and bug fixing should be happening simultaneously were disagreed with and people said they'd rather have a more polished game than new content.
So, I think there was a pretty clear demand for devs to stop making so much new content and focus on fixing performance.
Exactly. And that's exactly NOT what happened....______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....16 -
SkaiFaith✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yep, agreed, ESO is simply an inclusive game. One of the many reasons why I've enjoyed playing it for so many years. It's too bad that long-standing issues have been neglected for as long as they have been. I unfortunately don't have much hope that they'll improve at this point in the game's lifespan.
Well, what companion were you referring to, then, when you said "'A companion designer wouldn't be able to code to solve disconnection issues' true, and that's why it's not a dev incapability issue but a company resources allocation issue - that's the whole point"? I'm not the one who originally brought up the companion, by the way. That was ragnarok6644b14_ESO.
ANYHOW, have a good day as well, fellow gamer.
As you noted, I was just citing another person's comment, it was not brought up by myself either.
I'm not good at keeping track of names online, who said what XD I admit that, even made a whole forum thread on that 😂A: "We, as humans, should respect and take care of each other like in a Co-op, not a PvP 🌸"
B: "Too many words. Words bad. Won't read. ⚔️"0 -
JiubLeRepenti✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
No. Not really. Many of these posts volunteered content as tribute unprompted by the developers and openly stated they'd rather have bug fixes than content. When they first announced they were cutting the content, a lot of us who said this was bad and bug fixing should be happening simultaneously were disagreed with and people said they'd rather have a more polished game than new content.
So, I think there was a pretty clear demand for devs to stop making so much new content and focus on fixing performance.
Thing is, global perf were not improved. At all. How many people keep complaining about servs performances and other related stuff?
I can't take my case as a general rule, but I can't remember how many crashes I've been facing since the """new""" megaservs were deployed on PC. It's litterally several times a week.
"You got booted from server"
"An unknown error has occured"
etc.
And this happens on a very decent PC:SpoilerNVIDIA 3070Ti
R7 5800X
32GO DDR4 3600Mhz
SSD NVMe M.2
Optic fiber connection
Almost ten years later, Cyro isn't fixed yet. And I won't even speak about the global state of the game and its technical limits due to the crappy engine ZOS uses.
So if it's really what people asked for, and what ZOS plan to do... Then they should do it. Very quickly. Because people are getting fed up. And I'm foreshadowing some replies: I'm not giving any order. Just telling what must be done in order to stem the bleeding.Edited by JiubLeRepenti on 27 September 2024 13:45BE/FR l PC EU l CP2500
Just fell in love with housing! Dedicated Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@JiubLeRepentiYT/videos
TES III Morrowind biggest fan!
Never forget: we can disagree on everything, as long as we debate politely and respectfully13 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think what you miss by dismissing those critiques is that, usually, when players point to those "modern audience" pain points what they really mean is:
It's easy to dismiss because it's scapegoating and double standards at best, and hateful at worst. Some of the games catching heat over this aren't even released yet, so no, it's not just about gameplay either.
Edit: Look at the double standard with Azandar/Sharp and Tanlorin, for example.Edited by spartaxoxo on 27 September 2024 14:155 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JiubLeRepenti wrote: »Thing is, global perf were not improved. At all. How many people keep complaining about servs performances and other related stuff?
It's received a lot of fixes but obviously still has a long way to go. Performance IS bad. But it was never bad because they were releasing content. It was bad because the issues were either not prioritized or they don't know how to fix it. Because they had clearly been trying all sorts of things that didn't work. That's how we ended up with new servers, no procs for years, etc.
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JiubLeRepenti✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
Google Trends figures are very interesting.spartaxoxo wrote: »
It's received a lot of fixes but obviously still has a long way to go. Performance IS bad. But it was never bad because they were releasing content. It was bad because the issues were either not prioritized or they don't know how to fix it. Because they had clearly been trying all sorts of things that didn't work. That's how we ended up with new servers, no procs for years, etc.
I agree, but beyond that, what matters is the result.
I mean... ESO has made 2 billion dollars in ten years. It makes 15 million per month. Like in any other MMO, whales are spending a lot on this game. I personally spent €5,000 on it. I’ve preordered each chapter since Morrowind. But in the end, when I see the overall state of the game, I just wonder how it is maintained and how ZOS is spending its time and money on it.
So yeah, we can try to find reasons, causes, or even excuses. But what amazes me is how some people (I’m definitely not targeting you or anyone) keep their eyes wide shut about the current situation the game is facing.
I’ve said it tons of times: I LOVE ESO. I’ve spent thousands of hours in it. But like many others, I can see the overall trend the game is facing, and it scares me. I don’t see any firm, strong reaction from ZOS. Again, maybe they are doing their very best given the situation. But once again, the only thing that matters is the result.
As I mentioned earlier, I think 90% of QOL/performance problems won’t be solved because of the game engine (and, gosh, I’ll keep those words to myself), which impacts server performance. I’m afraid ZOS will never try to fix that. It would cost too much money, and after 10 years, I’m not sure they see themselves spending that much on it.BE/FR l PC EU l CP2500
Just fell in love with housing! Dedicated Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@JiubLeRepentiYT/videos
TES III Morrowind biggest fan!
Never forget: we can disagree on everything, as long as we debate politely and respectfully6 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JiubLeRepenti wrote: »As I mentioned earlier, I think 90% of QOL/performance problems won’t be solved because of the game engine (and, gosh, I’ll keep those words to myself), which impacts server performance. I’m afraid ZOS will never try to fix that. It would cost too much money, and after 10 years, I’m not sure they see themselves spending that much on it.
I personally think it's the engine as well. I think there are some things they just can't fix or are too cost prohibitive to fix. I think they know performance is a serious issue given how much effort they clearly put into it that did not work.
It's one of the reasons I don't like PvP in this game, although not the only or biggest one.1 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭With a growing lack of story content, and my favorite franchise FINALLY getting a new release at the end of October, I'm not sure how often I'll be logging into ESO after that. I guess we'll see. Whether ESO is around for another two years or ten, it's been a great game, a great ride, and it will always have a special place in my heart because of it.
Great post! I'd echo most of it (including ESO having been a great ride). I'm in the same place as you. I prefer SP games (this will be my last MMO), and there are a lot of games coming out in the next year that I want to play, including that game you mentioned at the end of October - already preordered. Given that there's no new story content until June (or September, because I refuse to pay AAA price again for the annual chapter), I anticipate those games finally taking me away from ESO. I do have achievements and dungeons to do, but honestly, it's just busy work at this point and I'm talking a YEAR here where there will be no new questing (my favourite activity) except maybe with the two new companions.
Also, I've been running into some punishing RNG lately when trying to get some antiquity leads, and that's had me questioning why I'm paying for something that just isn't fun or reasonable.
Like you, I guess I'll see how it goes. For now, I'm still logging in, but I'm not as confident as I once was that I'll still be doing that in 2025.10 -
garir_komes_molroy✭✭✭✭✭need to do normal events 2-3 times a year, not 3 events in a row as it happens now. Do quality events and good exclusive awards that can only be obtained at the event. Update old locations under the standards of the last chapters. Add content for a long time, not a month or two, something like new modes in pvp and pve, some world events like “Molag Ball tried to invade Tamriel sent his titan” and that would defeat him need to gather 50+ players, something like that or smaller events. CHANGE pvp finally and make a good balance. Make a good balance of classes. And the first thing you need is to listen to the normal audience and not that asks to simplify everything because they are difficult to kill a crab or because they are killed in pvp or who ask to add a token to change class. But nothing happens and the audience sees that the game is not engaged in. New dungeons go through and close within the first week, a new chapter gives content for a month. What do you do the rest of the time? Nothing. There is content for the new player, of course, but for the old players there is no incentive to get into the game and do anything in it.1 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭JiubLeRepenti wrote: »
Google Trends figures are very interesting.
I agree, but beyond that, what matters is the result.
I mean... ESO has made 2 billion dollars in ten years. It makes 15 million per month. Like in any other MMO, whales are spending a lot on this game. I personally spent €5,000 on it. I’ve preordered each chapter since Morrowind. But in the end, when I see the overall state of the game, I just wonder how it is maintained and how ZOS is spending its time and money on it.
So yeah, we can try to find reasons, causes, or even excuses. But what amazes me is how some people (I’m definitely not targeting you or anyone) keep their eyes wide shut about the current situation the game is facing.
I’ve said it tons of times: I LOVE ESO. I’ve spent thousands of hours in it. But like many others, I can see the overall trend the game is facing, and it scares me. I don’t see any firm, strong reaction from ZOS. Again, maybe they are doing their very best given the situation. But once again, the only thing that matters is the result.
As I mentioned earlier, I think 90% of QOL/performance problems won’t be solved because of the game engine (and, gosh, I’ll keep those words to myself), which impacts server performance. I’m afraid ZOS will never try to fix that. It would cost too much money, and after 10 years, I’m not sure they see themselves spending that much on it.
I agree with you 100%
Some people keep the eyes wide shut about whats going on and the direction of the game.
And these here who wrote they like it when its quiet, probably didnt realise, zos wont keep the servers up for only a few people.
So if the population is shrinking under a certain level its the end and they have the right to *** the servers down and all the money and time we spent on the game is ciao.
So it should be in everyones interest to not close the eyes and adress the issues we see best as players and bring them torwards zos till they take action.8 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crossplay between all platforms would make a big difference in boosting active population.
A large portion of player activity is tied to player perception and when you’ve got the main Cyrodiil Campaign with 1 bar per faction or can’t find a group to run the Trial you want or enter a DLC zone and you’re the only person there it gives the perception whether true or not that the game is dead or dying.
All MMO’s releasing on console going forward are going to be Crossplay. Both Throne and Liberty and New World Aeternum that are launching now on console are Crossplay with PC.
Zenimax would be smart to find a way to make Crossplay happen for ESO regardless of the cost if they want to keep the game going for a number of more years.4 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not interested in crossplay on PC. If it happens, I'm sure it will require giving up my addons. At that point I cancel four annual subs and go back to Skyrim.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....11 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We should perhaps ask ourselves "what will make me excited to game ESO again?". Well if there were some vast story improvements that would be a start. Also if they stopped with this "one year" story mode, it doesn't work anymore.
I would like to see them write something more complex and less foreseeable. A story might be entertainingly written, but it's not really exciting if one can very well estimate what will happen anyway.
Also, rarely something dramatic happens in these stories. No bigger destruction, no one dying (or only people dying who never had any big character development or interaction with the player character, so there is no emotional connection).
I wish ZOS would be more daring. The last story would have been a wonderful chance to show us alternative versions of Tamriel within story quests, how places changed because there was a different outcome of a war, or some different decision in history. They could have even included Dwemer and Akaviri, for example. Maybe just letting us have a short glimpse, without the possibility to ask many questions (it's not like we never saw a Dwemer npc before, after all; TES 3 had 2, 1 of them being a ghost). The only "alternative universe" thing they showed us were variants of Ithelia, but, honestly, while it was nice, that was much less interesting than actually seeing a changed world. Because the average players probably feel emotionally closer to the places they know than to a new character that was just introduced. At least I know that seeing even the shortest scene of a Vvardenfell town with a mixed population of both Chimer and Dwemer would have been more fascinating to me.
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire6 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭PS EU Friday 5:20 pm
and
PS NA Friday at like 11:20 am because of like -6h Time difference.
I just look now how to cancel my eso plus, i will renew it when cross play is implemented, so probably never. Its what it is.
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CrazyKitty✭✭✭✭✭
When I see gamers clutching their pearls over “modern audiences,” I just roll my eyes, ignore them, and carry on my merry way. I highly doubt any of the perceived “issues” created by “modern audiences” are driving people away from this game. The likeliest culprits are, in no particular order:
- Performance issues
- Lack of meaningful content updates
- Over-nerfing of sets and/or abilities
Performance issues are about to drive me away from the game, for sure. Already looking into replacement MMOs, even thinking of returning to Warframe.
You didn't mention customer service issues, but they're playing a role here too for sure.5 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭Not interested in crossplay on PC. If it happens, I'm sure it will require giving up my addons. At that point I cancel four annual subs and go back to Skyrim.
They honestly just need crossplay betwen the consoles and crossplay betwen the pc's.
Merge the servers.
Add campaigns/ instances.
Make megaservers.
Long term there is no way arround cross play3 -
VDoom1✭✭✭✭✭
I would like to see them write something more complex and less foreseeable. A story might be entertainingly written, but it's not really exciting if one can very well estimate what will happen anyway.
Also, rarely something dramatic happens in these stories. No bigger destruction, no one dying (or only people dying who never had any big character development or interaction with the player character, so there is no emotional connection).
I wish ZOS would be more daring. The last story would have been a wonderful chance to show us alternative versions of Tamriel within story quests, how places changed because there was a different outcome of a war, or some different decision in history. They could have even included Dwemer and Akaviri, for example. Maybe just letting us have a short glimpse, without the possibility to ask many questions (it's not like we never saw a Dwemer npc before, after all; TES 3 had 2, 1 of them being a ghost). The only "alternative universe" thing they showed us were variants of Ithelia, but, honestly, while it was nice, that was much less interesting than actually seeing a changed world. Because the average players probably feel emotionally closer to the places they know than to a new character that was just introduced. At least I know that seeing even the shortest scene of a Vvardenfell town with a mixed population of both Chimer and Dwemer would have been more fascinating to me.
Absolutely, 100% agree!
I remember playing through the Blackwood story for the first time. This experience kinda stuck with me ever since, because it was just, wow, not in a good way. It was so ridiculously predictable. Like one could easily determine that this mysterious character was female, and then one just had to see how many or which new female characters had been recently introduced. And ta da, mystery solved. It was so obvious that it almost ruined the story a bit. One can guess what will happen and probably end up being correct as well.
I very much enjoyed the original Main Quest. It had plot twists, surprises and even some character deaths. It was grabbing and it had well written characters that we still love today (Cadwell!
)
The stories today are....very basic. It's like everything is written to be at its simplest and most basic and everything has to be explained to the last detail. I would like more quests with Meridia. There are certain areas where the writers have to tread carefully, or they will kinda ruin the mystery. But there are most certainly many opportunities to explore! In the future I just hope the quests are better.Edited by VDoom1 on 27 September 2024 16:41We Fight For Cyrodiil.
We fight for The Daggerfall Covenant.
We fight for The Aldmeri Dominion.
We fight for The Ebonheart Pact.
We fight for Tamriel!SpoilerCP 1200+
Grand Master Crafter | Tamriel Hero
Imperial Dragonknight
Khajiit Necromancer
Altmer Templar | Dunmer Nightblade
Khajiit Nightblade | Argonian Dragonknight
Altmer Sorcerer | Breton Nightblade
Nord Warden | Dunmer SorcererGuild - Priests Of Hircine
ESO Since 2014
PC - EU7 -
FelisCatus✭✭✭✭✭The entire end game community is filled with sunk cost players who just play through the frustration. I don't see how you revitalise it without upping the reward value by orders of magnitude, which would involve taking crown crate items, which zos will never do.
Agree at this point the game is a dying cow being milked for all its worth. They have no intention of curing the cow only healing it now and then to keep it alive to make milk.Edited by FelisCatus on 5 October 2024 00:5013 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is meant by "modern audience"?
If this was about opera or theater it would mean all actors are in the nude, quacking like ducks, paint each other's faces with marmalade and roll around the stage, and the stage director will tell you this is absolutely the correct symbolic depiction of Hamlet's inner conflict. When you hear "reinvented/interpreted for a modern audience" when it comes to a play - run. Unless you want to waste your money for looking at nude people making weird noises without any true relation to what you actually intended to watch. At least that's the current state of theater here right now.When I see gamers clutching their pearls over “modern audiences,” I just roll my eyes, ignore them, and carry on my merry way. I highly doubt any of the perceived “issues” created by “modern audiences” are driving people away from this game.
It depends on what they mean by "modern audiences". Complaining about the inclusion of female or gay characters? Well, that's a weird thing to complain about after this is completely normal in TES for many years.
But I see how trying to cater to everyone can lead to issues, namely the end result being so unspecific that it pleases no one. And let's not talk about the dumbing down we see in the game (not only when it comes to combat, but also when it comes to the puzzles or riddles in game - can't even call them riddles anymore) because everything obviously has to be easy for everyone now, because some people see everything that needs a bit of practice or trying as a threat instead of a challenge. The real solution would be to give difficulty options (or to let people optionally skip it, when it comes to riddles), not to make everything as easy as possible until it becomes boring for many.
Ah yes, and the same problem I see with the storytelling and dialogues: They're very basic, and I've sometimes been wondering whether ZOS can't write something different or whether it's on purpose because complexity could be overwhelming for some people. Same goes for characters which increasingly often are stereotypes.
And who is this nebulous "modern audience" even? People are no monolith, not even Gen Z. And why would they need something else than, let's say people born a decade or two earlier?@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire6 -
SkaiFaith✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
It's easy to dismiss because it's scapegoating and double standards at best, and hateful at worst. Some of the games catching heat over this aren't even released yet, so no, it's not just about gameplay either.
Edit: Look at the double standard with Azandar/Sharp and Tanlorin, for example.
It's not easy to articulate an opinion when having said opinion can get you insulted or banned (not saying it's happened here, btw, just in general).
I'm genuinely impressed by this thread still being open - while I approve of free expression, it seems it could be deemed "not constructive" and soon be closed. I'm just guessing, I got nothing against it and I would appreciate if it remains open to gather constructive criticism...A: "We, as humans, should respect and take care of each other like in a Co-op, not a PvP 🌸"
B: "Too many words. Words bad. Won't read. ⚔️"1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
They honestly just need crossplay betwen the consoles and crossplay betwen the pc's.
Merge the servers.
Add campaigns/ instances.
Make megaservers.
Long term there is no way arround cross play
If they merge the pc servers, what happens to my four accounts, which I play on BOTH servers? Sorry. Not in favor.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....9 -
Theist_VII✭✭✭✭✭
✭After playing Throne and Liberty, it’s so easy to see what ESO’s Game Director would need to do in order to keep the game relevant, but it’s too late.
Zenimax had until the latest round of new MMOs to innovate and they sat on their hands.
Now we’ve got great story, great gameplay, great personalization, and huge open-world PvP the likes of vanilla Cyrodiil… all from a different game.
Did I mention it’s full Crossplay?Edited by Theist_VII on 27 September 2024 18:396 -
Xandreia_✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There were players willing to trade content for bug fixes on the scale of entire DLCs.
i even said months ago take the game down for a week and fix it, alot of people agreed lol
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MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭
If they merge the pc servers, what happens to my four accounts, which I play on BOTH servers? Sorry. Not in favor.
maybe just nothing ?2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It won't be "just nothing". It will at that point be likely that I will have to see accounts merged and delete characters. At which juncture I'll just go play something else.
I don't care if you get your console servers merged. Just leave pc servers alone.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....5 -
Theist_VII✭✭✭✭✭
✭It won't be "just nothing". It will at that point be likely that I will have to see accounts merged and delete characters. At which juncture I'll just go play something else.
I don't care if you get your console servers merged. Just leave pc servers alone.
I have never in all of my time gaming, seen a company wipe accounts to pave the way for cross-play post-launch.6 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It won't be "just nothing". It will at that point be likely that I will have to see accounts merged and delete characters. At which juncture I'll just go play something else.
They'd probably ask you to change the username for any accounts that conflicted. I doubt they'd delete characters. I also doubt they'll do crossplay, but I could be wrong.
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TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
They'd probably ask you to change the username for any accounts that conflicted. I doubt they'd delete characters. I also doubt they'll do crossplay, but I could be wrong.
No, "they" wouldn't delete characters, they'd set a limit for the merged accounts at 20 characters. I don't know about them wanting to change usernames for four accounts - that might include requiring separate subs for those, which would make it quite a bit more expensive.
My actual bet is, they're working on total crossplay (between all platforms) right now.... which is why nothing much else is happening.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Theist_VII wrote: »After playing Throne and Liberty, it’s so easy to see what ESO’s Game Director would need to do in order to keep the game relevant, but it’s too late.
Zenimax had until the latest round of new MMOs to innovate and they sat on their hands.
Now we’ve got great story, great gameplay, great personalization, and huge open-world PvP the likes of vanilla Cyrodiil… all from a different game.
Did I mention it’s full Crossplay?
You forgot to mention free to play. I’ll be trying it out with the official launch, for sure.3
https://youtu.be/Sf-muQh4hOU?si=LhlwtYbXtV81q37S