Molag poly’s poor new sound effects

TheGamerSeal · August 23

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

I was speaking at length with some guildmates about this change, not to mention other additions and changes, being outright unacceptable. One of my guildmates made the ever-infuriating but perfectly valid and realistic argument that players flow in and out of this game, and as such, ZeniMax is under no obligation whatsoever to appease established members of the community when they can simply focus on pleasing new members and ensuring a new wave of revenue.

I want to make it crystal clear that I am in no way defending ZeniMax in this regard; ZeniMax - and for that matter every other company providing a non-free experience to players - should be held accountable for this type of action. Acastanza_ESO pointed out something Matt Firor said, that once developers make a change like this, they enter into a no-win situation where some people want the old back while some prefer the new and making any choice at that moment results in someone feeling slighted in the end. It has been proven time and time again that ZeniMax has serious trouble with learning from its mistakes, and an offhand prime example of this would be the Scribing questline following the Psijic questline; one certainly being shorter than the other, but still generating a grind for content that people should have easier access to.

For ZeniMax to say "oops, sorry" every time they make this kind of mistake and promise to do better in the future only to do the exact same thing not once or twice but many times over should be a clear sign that the direction the leadership of ESO is taking is not the right one - that generates a few plain and simple courses of action for how ESO should be managed in the future, and if nobody is taking any of those courses of action, then nothing will ever change.

I implore ZeniMax to keep in mind those players that have kept ESO alive these past ten years and to consider them and their feedback to be of the utmost importance when it comes to making game-altering decisions from the smallest sound change to the largest full-blown content release.

As an addition to this, I would like to make it clear that I do acknowledge that some things simply cannot be returned to the way they were, and in those instances, players should be given an official explanation as to why a change cannot be reverted instead of being left to fumble around in the dark with only speculation.

Ezhh · August 23

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

[snip]

If that's the case then all they need to do is say as much. I'm quite sure almost everyone unhappy about this would be much more understanding of the situation if this was confirmed as true.

I wouldn't count on ZOS providing an explanation for their actions either; as far as I'm aware, there's still no definitive answer for why they renamed Endless Archive to what they're calling it now.

By the way, I broke into your house last night and stole a bunch of stuff; I'm really sorry for what I did and realize you would have liked advance notice and a reason for why I was doing it - anyway, I won't be returning the stuff.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. I'm not counting on anything - just saying people would probably be a lot more understanding if they gave a reason.

If you think that's the same as me demanding burglars let me know for my convenience when they'll burgle me then I think you have the wrong end of something. Bit of an odd comparison when you go on to say:

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

... some things simply cannot be returned to the way they were, and in those instances, players should be given an official explanation as to why a change cannot be reverted instead of being left to fumble around in the dark with only speculation.

[edited to remove quote]

TheGamerSeal · August 24

Ezhh wrote: »

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

I wouldn't count on ZOS providing an explanation for their actions either...

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. I'm not counting on anything - just saying people would probably be a lot more understanding if they gave a reason.

I wasn't implying you were counting on anything; it was more of a figure of speech saying "yeah, and there's no point in expecting an explanation."

Ezhh wrote: »

If you think that's the same as me demanding burglars let me know for my convenience when they'll burgle me then I think you have the wrong end of something.

I don't think it's the same. It's not a direct comparison to what ZeniMax keeps doing, but rather an extreme example to point out how ludicrous it is to do what they're doing. I could also say something along the lines of a car salesman advertising a very nice-looking car that breaks down as soon as you purchase and drive it off the lot.

dragonlord500 · August 24

yea his new voices doesn't sound like him at all. the old voice was very close though but the laugh was off.

Elvenheart · October 14

In today’s PTO patch notes:

“Molag Bal Illusion Polymorph Audio: Restored previously replaced VO lines with original actor's voice, added new actor VO lines to fill gaps, and did an overall refinement pass in order to improve the cohesiveness between the original actor and new actor VO.”

ZOS_Kevin · October 14

Elvenheart wrote: »

In today’s PTO patch notes:

“Molag Bal Illusion Polymorph Audio: Restored previously replaced VO lines with original actor's voice, added new actor VO lines to fill gaps, and did an overall refinement pass in order to improve the cohesiveness between the original actor and new actor VO.”

Thanks for sharing the PTS Patch Note, @Elvenheart. Just wanted to note that this is currently on PTS. Assuming no issues come up, this will be a part of U44 on launch. If you play on PTS, let us know if this sounds better. We'll also gather feedback during launch incase folks don't/can't play on PTS.

Elvenheart · October 14

You’re welcome! I just remembered how this was discussed recently and wanted people to see the good news as soon as possible 😊

Jaraal · October 14

Fischblut wrote: »

1. That is not "small adjustment" as mentioned in patch notes, that's complete removal of the voice of Molag Bal! New voice would be nice for some other unreleased polymorph, but not for already existing recognizable character.
2. Replacing the voice of polymorph is removing 50% of the cosmetic item's functionality! Such thing is absolutely against the official policy of not altering any cosmetic item unless it was bugged/broken. And based on what we hear from Molag Bal in quests and Dolmens, this voice was working as intended - it really helped to immerse in proper roleplay as Dark Father.

Well this blows the theory that polymorphs/costumes can't be changed after the fact out of the water. It means that bugged items like the Timbercrow Wanderer diaper/shaved bottom/granny panties not being fixed is a conscious choice, rather than a 'We can't fix stuff after the fact' rule.

But yes, it's definitely caveat emptor, when you consider the negative changes made after the fact to the Gloambound weapons and now the Molag Bal polymorph. There is no guarantee that ANY item you spend real cash on in the game will be the same as when you bought it.

Fischblut · October 15

The voice was restored from the start of PTS, just not mentioned in patch notes before yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDwWX9ZEH0U

I've logged in to check it yesterday after reading these new patch notes, and I don't see any more changes in this polymorph (I really hoped for addition of the special Molag Bal laugh from my feedback)... So this video showcase of new voice is still relevant.

When I brought this problem on previous PTS, my thread didn't get any official attention. Only when we got threads in General forum after live release, we got this much needed official attention to this problem. Hopefully, it goes to live without any more stress

However, there is new awful problem with cosmetic items on this PTS - some polymorphs now have very bright light sources in their eyes

I report them in game, and here for more attention:

It looks awful, especially with Lich polymorph! And it's been unnoticed for at least 3 weeks now - I'm afraid that it will go live as well

And there is already a precedent of similar horrible visual bug which was never be fixed.

I'm tired of checking my cosmetic items every patch to see if they were bugged or changed

Just now there is another big problem going on with changes to the voice of Radiant Apex mount. There is no feedback from old owners so far, so I guess this mount was not popular at all... But it doesn't make it acceptable to change unique audio feature of such expensive item, and the lack of official response of such situation is sad as well!
If there was no preview in the crown store, I would have bought this mount based on original showcase video, and would have to ask for refund

There is also years-long audio bug with the loss of powerful scream from Break Free ability, rendering the combat dull and a lot of cool voice lines (especially from polymorphs) useless.

@ZOS_Kevin sorry for tagging you, but I hope you show these issues to relevant people who can fix them. Thank you.

Elvenheart · October 15

Fischblut wrote: »

The voice was restored from the start of PTS, just not mentioned in patch notes before yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDwWX9ZEH0U

I've logged in to check it yesterday after reading these new patch notes, and I don't see any more changes in this polymorph (I really hoped for addition of the special Molag Bal laugh from my feedback)... So this video showcase of new voice is still relevant.

When I brought this problem on previous PTS, my thread didn't get any official attention. Only when we got threads in General forum after live release, we got this much needed official attention to this problem. Hopefully, it goes to live without any more stress

However, there is new awful problem with cosmetic items on this PTS - some polymorphs now have very bright light sources in their eyes I report them in game, and here for more attention:

It looks awful, especially with Lich polymorph! And it's been unnoticed for at least 3 weeks now - I'm afraid that it will go live as well And there is already a precedent of similar horrible visual bug which was never be fixed.

I'm tired of checking my cosmetic items every patch to see if they were bugged or changed

Just now there is another big problem going on with changes to the voice of Radiant Apex mount. There is no feedback from old owners so far, so I guess this mount was not popular at all... But it doesn't make it acceptable to change unique audio feature of such expensive item, and the lack of official response of such situation is sad as well!
If there was no preview in the crown store, I would have bought this mount based on original showcase video, and would have to ask for refund

There is also years-long audio bug with the loss of powerful scream from Break Free ability, rendering the combat dull and a lot of cool voice lines (especially from polymorphs) useless.

@ZOS_Kevin sorry for tagging you, but I hope you show these issues to relevant people who can fix them. Thank you.

Ewwww…on the PTS shots the lich now has a constant expression of wide eyed, startled bewilderment.

Stafford197 · October 15

WHOA this one is very dirty.

This polymorph does not cost Crowns, but rather Crown Gems.

Players purchase Crown Crates in hopes of obtaining this polymorph, or spend their Crown Gems on it which can’t be explicitly purchased for real money in the same way that Crowns are.

Will ZOS refund the total cost of all Crown Crates purchased prior to getting the poly? What if this occurred through gifting? How is this handled since it technically considered an ingame item rather than an item purchased for real money?

It’s astonishing how ZOS keeps finding ways to disappoint their community.

Wiseau · October 16

I agree, the changes were unnecessary and unasked for, and makes the poly seem like a ripoff now. The voice is what really made it special, now we just have some buggy old man grunts.

And as a side note, the Shackled Titan mount is also extremely disappointing, even with the poly summon effects. It's far too quiet, and the flames should be a constant effect, not just a rear up flash.

Jaimeh · October 16

The lich polymorphic looks absolutely comical with the new eyes...

ApoAlaia · October 16

That is a bummer.

Came to this thread to rejoice about the change to the Molag Bal polymorph only to be confronted with the fact that they have given the Lich polymorph (currently equipped by the character I am actively developing) the Shadow Rider Senche treatment

I guess it will go with the theme... because she has the Fang Lair personality equipped, so now all blue effects will be shine through.

They just need to turn the brightness of the Maarselok arms pack up as well and we have a trifecta.

VouxeTheMinotaur · October 16

While on the discussion of Polymorph SoundFX, can there be / will there be any additions to the Minotaur Polymorph SoundFX while using Beast Personality?

The personality does not make any sound other than the sniffing. It seems very silly for a creature like a minotaur, even if it's not as big and bold like the NPC enemies, to thrust its head up for the roar only for it to be completely silent.

Heroic is also this way when the "cheer" idle animation happens. Completely silent.

Drunk personality at least has some little huffs and such while swaying

Jaraal · October 20

Fischblut wrote: »

However, there is new awful problem with cosmetic items on this PTS - some polymorphs now have very bright light sources in their eyes I report them in game, and here for more attention:

Man, they better not be nerfing the Shade polymorph like this! That looks awful, with the lame strings in the face and the green donkey ears. Can anyone else confirm that it's really like this on the PTS? I stay away from that place after the anniversary debacle.

tomofhyrule · October 20

Jaraal wrote: »

Fischblut wrote: »

However, there is new awful problem with cosmetic items on this PTS - some polymorphs now have very bright light sources in their eyes I report them in game, and here for more attention:

Man, they better not be nerfing the Shade polymorph like this! That looks awful, with the lame strings in the face and the green donkey ears. Can anyone else confirm that it's really like this on the PTS? I stay away from that place after the anniversary debacle.

That shade picture is a bit disingenuous.

The one with the hair in front of the face is the female version of the polymorph, which is set to look like a Voidmother. It also has a shorter skirt and no hood so you can see her stringy hair. The other is the male version which is set to look like one of Maebroogha's shades and has a full-length hooded robe.

I don't know if there's anything changing directly, but we really should be seeing the same character on PTS and on live to get a full comparison. If, however, a male character is suddenly getting the female model, that sounds like a bug.

Fischblut · October 22

In this case, gender really doesn't matter - every of them has new awful eyes

If male character was getting female model, of course I would mention that as bug...

But if someone was confused by my previous comparison because of male/female versions, here is exactly the same character on both Live and PTS:

Screenshots are made just now, so we still have no fix and no official reaction to this

Be prepared for it to go live, sadly...

And I'm actually glad that you requested new screenshots, because this time I've also looked at all my mounts and non-combat pets with glowing eyes... they are all affected by this horrible visual bug on PTS as well!

I will post some pet/mount screenshots comparison later. We will need them anyway, as this problem might need the same public attention as Molag Bal Illusion did

In case of Molag Bal, at least his appearance was not changed even when he got different voice. But in case of Lich, it's appearance is totally ruined - I can't look at that face seriously, and there would be no point in trying to make cool screenshots with such awful eyes!

p.s.

Reminder for myself to go and see the eyes of NPC Lich creatures on PTS, if they are affected as well.

Jaraal · October 22

Fischblut wrote: »

Screenshots are made just now, so we still have no fix and no official reaction to this Be prepared for it to go live, sadly...

And I'm actually glad that you requested new screenshots, because this time I've also looked at all my mounts and non-combat pets with glowing eyes... they are all affected by this horrible visual bug on PTS as well!

Curious that there is no mention of any visual changes to polymorphs in the patch notes. Is that an oversight, or just something they were planning to slip in unannounced?

Fischblut · October 26

Jaraal wrote: »

Curious that there is no mention of any visual changes to polymorphs in the patch notes. Is that an oversight, or just something they were planning to slip in unannounced?

I don't know how this stuff works, but I feel that such significant (and bad) changes to visual parts of the game should never happen... And you're right, there is nothing about visual changes in the patch notes. Sadly, there was nothing about it few years ago as well, when the lighting system got really bad for the first time

I will post more screenshots in separate thread when (or if) this bug goes live in a few days.
Just a taste of what's probably coming with the next patch:

The light was never really good after Stonethorn patch, but now it's getting even worse

And the scariest part is that it might never be fixed as well. It destroyed the beauty of Shadow Rider senche mount in the past, now it might destroy Lich polymorph

Also, I've checked Lich NPC creatures on PTS. They use different eye effect, so they are still looking very cool - unlike Lich polymorph for players

spartaxoxo · October 27

They never fixed lights leaking through wall bug so many years ago, I doubt they'd fix the polymorphs.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/377963/annoying-light-leaking-bug-light-going-through-walls

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/634197/why-do-lighting-effects-bleed

Fischblut wrote: »

It wasn't always like this, and I'm very sad to see that it wasn't fixed

Almost 3 years ago, during Stonethorn DLC PTS, something was silently done to lights in the whole game (and this includes housing). It ruined not only the look of environment, but also Worm Wizard personality and Shadow Rider Senche mount.

I thought that even original red light could be more subtle, but I love the fluffy sabre cat model anyway so I learned to love the light in it too:
vs
Ruined look, so nobody can admire the cute muzzle of this mount:

Originally, light source seems hidden inside something. In this case, the head of the mount:

vs
Nowadays, light source is proudly ignoring obstacles. Be it ground, wall or someone's body:

I didn't make photos of that personality from behind before the bug, but you can imagine that it wasn't shining through my character's back.

Bonfire's light source behind the wooden wall:

In original state, you can't see the awful glow of that bonfire even behind NPC's body, let alone behind the wooden wall:

Sorry, I don't have better picture cause I've never had any reason to take photo of the bonfire behind the wall... when it was working as intended

NPC's flaming staff inside the rock, very immersive:

Psijic portal behind the rock (ok, that is the only positive side of this bug, easy to see those portals ):

Wayshrine light source makes sure player can really see it, such a "mysterious" sight with a bright dot of light:

My full report on this bug with more pictures: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561438/visual-bug-with-some-light-sources-6-months-and-still-not-fixed#latest

Personally, I lost hope that lights will be reverted to pre-Stonethorn state, but I will not forget how beautiful they used to look back then

Anumaril · October 27

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We’ll pass this on for review.

If others have feedback on the Molag’s Polymorph, please sound off here. Feedback is helpful for the team to assess. Thanks, all.

Since I'm here I'll also mention a problem I've had with the polymorph: the loincloth doesn't go as low on the polymorph as on the actual Molag Bal model. It has an elegant brutalistic nature to it when it's longer I miss with the polymorph's loincloth.