Molag poly’s poor new sound effects

Zyaneth_Bal

The new sound effects for molag poly that have been added with update 43 are honestly disgusting.
Not only was this change unasked for as it often is with zos’ new additions but the sound cue has been changed from one that is actually used for molag enemies to some weird old man noises while ot was claimed to sound “even more like the prince of schemes” in the notes.
I guess it’s another thing ruined on a whim.

Fischblut

I've seen you few times in the game, and thought that your character looks awesome with this polymorph and name

When this crate season started, I previewed items in it. I buy polymorphs only if I like their voices, so I thought: "Nice details on the model, but I need to know how it sounds like". Then I saw other player wearing this polymorph, and asked him to perform some emotes. When I heard the iconic laugh of Molag Bal from him, I just opened the store and purchased it for 400 gems... Using this polymorph returned me to being active in ESO again, because everything I do I do as Molag Bal on vacation Epic battles, or silly situations, or hilarious roleplay - it's all so interesting when using this polymorph. I never knew I needed this item, and now I can't imagine playing without it!



I also left feedback on it, including few missing sounds and missed opportunities such as adding this laugh somewhere too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjRMo0Bx3Nw

Not only it's very expensive item, it also represents very famous entity in the game - it can only be done once, so it should be perfect in all features.
So when I read PTS patch notes, which stated "When equipped with the Illusive Molag Bal polymorph, some small adjustments were made so that you will now sound even more like the Daedric Prince himself!" - I was so excited! I thought that the feedback was heard, so our Molag Bal will actually get few missing sounds added (some attacks, "giddy up", angry), and maybe even that satisfied laugh too (would sound epic on damaging Ultimates such as Dawnbreaker, and the same voice should have been on Break Free as well).

Break Free powerful voice is bugged for more than 2 years now, but that is another great sadness which was fixed once, bugged again after few months, and then abandoned

I installed PTS and tested light/heavy attacks with this polymorph. "Hmm, that voice doesn't match Molag Bal... So weird." Then I used /laugh to see if they added something there - and I was devastated. Designers simply removed the recognizable voice from the image of the most famous ESO character

Battle voice cries of Molag Bal were originally used for Illusion polymorph. They all can be heard in the end of main quest, and in Barathrum Centrata (Imperial Sewers).

1. That is not "small adjustment" as mentioned in patch notes, that's complete removal of the voice of Molag Bal! New voice would be nice for some other unreleased polymorph, but not for already existing recognizable character.
2. Replacing the voice of polymorph is removing 50% of the cosmetic item's functionality! Such thing is absolutely against the official policy of not altering any cosmetic item unless it was bugged/broken. And based on what we hear from Molag Bal in quests and Dolmens, this voice was working as intended - it really helped to immerse in proper roleplay as Dark Father.

Effectively, Molag Bal polymorph was removed from my gameplay, because I have no reason to use it now with unrecognizable generic evil voice. I logged in, confirmed that there is no longer proper voice, and unequipped this polymorph until this is fixed, hopefully.

Cosmetics is my end-game. I get huge dophamine by observing beautiful mounts/hearing sounds which I like. Getting no new mount every ~2 months is content starvation for me To explain the impact of nice cosmetic item removal: imagine if Arcanist class was suddenly removed from the game. Yes, we lived many years without it, but since it's addition to the game many players tried and loved it. It's unthinkable to just remove it. That's how unthinkable is such drastic change to cosmetic item!

My PTS feedback on this unwanted change was ignored by developers

Even if I ask for refund, the harm done to my game enjoyment is huge. I can't buy anything even remotely as fun as this polymorph (with old voice, of course). Giving such awesome item and removing it is heartbreaking!

Please, revert this change soon! Help players to get back to enjoying their harmless roleplay as Molag Bal!
@ZOS_MattFiror

IncultaWolf

Most forum player feedback in general seems to be ignored. Maybe you can request a refund.

ApoAlaia

I, too, find myself disappointed by the changes but after my experience with the 'Grim Focus Permaglow' conundrum it seems to me that the only sane course of action is to forget that I acquired the polymorph until either I stop finding it vexing, they sunset the servers or I move on from ESO, whatever happens first.

I do however wish you luck in your endeavour; the fact that it seems hopeless to me doesn't mean that is not justified.

Zyaneth_Bal

@ZOS_GinaBruno I am unsure as for whom I should ask but can this be looked into?
I hear that a lot of players are of the same mind concerning the new audio.

TaSheen

Try @ZOS_Kevin - Gina's moved on to some other department (something to do with "content creators" IIRC). Maybe Kevin can pass stuff on.

ZOS_Kevin

We’ll pass this on for review.

If others have feedback on the Molag’s Polymorph, please sound off here. Feedback is helpful for the team to assess. Thanks, all.

TaSheen

Thank YOU @ZOS_Kevin!

acastanza_ESO

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We’ll pass this on for review.

If others have feedback on the Molag’s Polymorph, please sound off here. Feedback is helpful for the team to assess. Thanks, all.

Honestly, changes like what was made to this polymorph are bordering on bait-and-switch fraud IMO. And that's coming from someone who doesn't even like this polymorph.
Its a substantial negative change to a product that people paid actual money for. You simply can not do that.

skinnycheeks

not a fan of changing up something like this down the road on a cosmetic that cost a LOT of gems!

Estin

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We’ll pass this on for review.

If others have feedback on the Molag’s Polymorph, please sound off here. Feedback is helpful for the team to assess. Thanks, all.

Honestly, changes like what was made to this polymorph are bordering on bait-and-switch fraud IMO. And that's coming from someone who doesn't even like this polymorph.
Its a substantial negative change to a product that people paid actual money for. You simply can not do that.

I still feel the same way about the gloambound and iceshard weapons having that horrible bug with the grim focus permaglow. A disclaimer was added after buying them which was ridiculous. Seeing how it's been over a year since that change with nothing being done, I doubt the polymorph is going to be reverted.

Dragonredux

So having to experience the change personally, I don't like it. Feels cheap to change something when people have paid gems or endeavors for an item.

I mentioned this in the other thread but the change feels jarring. Pretty much everyone who has played ESO's knows Molag Bal's voice even if you haven't done the main quest you probably done at least 1 dolmen and heard a line from him. The new voice sounds nowhere near like him.

I get that your probably wanted to add a whole voice set since you were already recycling Molag's combat sounds anyways and he doesn't have one for every action like Break Free, but I can live with that. I "paid" for Molag Bal cosplay not some random Dremora voice or something that could fit some other Daedric Prince like Sanguine (I'm not sure he even has a canon voice aside from the Skyrim one). On that note, why didn't you give this to one of the old polymorphs that's been lacking a few sounds like Solstheimstone Incarnate.

Personally I want a reversion, I don't know if you couldn't get the old voice actor for Bal back or not but if you really want to do this, just hire the guy back to do a few lines.

dcrush

Maybe the license they had to use Malcolm McDowell’s voice ran out. Whatever the reason, I’d say people definitely have a solid argument to request a refund. Whether they’ll get it or not… I’d post something about the Ferengi rules of acquisition but I’d be warned that it’s bashing.

Alaztor91

You would expect that after the Grim Focus perma glow/Gloambound weapons issue that ZOS would approach these kinds of changes a bit more carefully.

People pay real money for some of these cosmetics. I don't care what reasons ZOS has for changing them, but they should at least offer refund options when drastic changes are made.

Should players be concerned that the next Poly with custom voice might get ''adjusted'' after they purchase it?

Ezhh

I'll just add my voice here - very disappointed in this and would like it reverted.

I thought there was an understanding that assets would not get changed once they were in game and had been bought by people. Sound is just as important as visuals to many of us. Even more important in some cases.

Fischblut

Thanks everyone for helping to bring official attention to this problem! Let's hope that this change will be reverted!

To the designer(s) who've created new voice: the voice itself is good job, and it should be used for some new polymorph in future Just don't change Molag Bal and any of existing/non-bugged cosmetics like this ever again

Dragonredux wrote: »

I get that your probably wanted to add a whole voice set since you were already recycling Molag's combat sounds anyways and he doesn't have one for every action like Break Free, but I can live with that. I "paid" for Molag Bal cosplay not some random Dremora voice or something that could fit some other Daedric Prince like Sanguine (I'm not sure he even has a canon voice aside from the Skyrim one). On that note, why didn't you give this to one of the old polymorphs that's been lacking a few sounds like Solstheimstone Incarnate.

Personally I want a reversion, I don't know if you couldn't get the old voice actor for Bal back or not but if you really want to do this, just hire the guy back to do a few lines.

With access to many clean voice samples of Molag Bal in the game and modern technology, I think it's possible to create few missing sounds for Molag Bal Illusion polymorph. Of course, the actual voice lines done by the actor can never be surpassed, but I just want to get the recognizable character's audio back

This polymorph has a short scream assigned to Break Free, but you don't hear it because this ability is bugged for more than 2 years now. All the years before it became bugged, our characters were performing powerful screams when breaking free. Now, they just quietly "sigh" when breaking free, which is awful and makes the combat feel awkwardly silent Besides aesthetic enjoyment and adrenaline from those battle cries, that scream used to be the reliable indication if my character actually broke free in the middle of battle with lot of visual noise...

You can hear how our characters should sound when breaking free only in two ways (that I personally know of): Dawnbreaker ultimate, and /rollingpin emote.
So, Molag Bal Illusion polymorph's Break Free scream (in original version) is powerful, but short. It's ok if they fix the Break free audio, at least it's his voice. But my personal opinion is that he should laugh in the face of those who tried to dominate him with their crown control effects That's why I propose to use this cool laugh as Dawnbreaker/Break Free line.

The fact that he "stole" Dawnbreaker from Meridia and now uses it against his enemies, must put him in good mood as well

The short scream can be moved into one of angry emotes - as original polymorph didn't have any voice for that at all.

I also think that the new voice (which is mistakenly assigned to Molag Bal now) would sound good on the Sanguine polymorph, but I was hesitating to say that, so I'm glad that you did! I played Skyrim more than 10 years ago, so I don't remember Sanguine's voice there. But Molag Bal has different voices in Skyrim and in ESO, so there should not be a problem if in ESO Sanguine would have a new voice...

As for Solstheimstone Incarnate, it's one of the best polymorphs in ESO (in both appearance and voice), please do not mention it like that! I use it on my main character now. It has nicely edited voice (for all actions/emotes) which really fits the icy monster image:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUEMVjH7DBk

It only has simple human whistle when summoning a mount, but it's like 1% of his total functionality. Some other polymorphs also have simple whistle when calling their mount. Edits to voices for this action would be welcome, but overall this icy creature sounds great! If his voice was replaced, I would absolutely create a thread on forums with the same displeasure as I have for the voice change of Molag Bal Illusion

TheKaan

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If others have feedback on the Molag’s Polymorph, please sound off here. Feedback is helpful for the team to assess. Thanks, all.

The suggestion that ZOS are ripping people off by changing a polymorph voice is silly. They didn't spend time and money to spite anyone.

Moreover, some of the original audio was weak. Casting Dawnbreaker sounded like you'd just stepped on an elderly crow, and many jokes were made about it. Now it sounds hilariously aggressive. Much more bang for your buck.

I feel bad disagreeing with the original post, and understand the appeal of taking McDowell's voice with us wherever we go, but I'd like the other side to be heard too. This was not a downgrade.

Ezhh

TheKaan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If others have feedback on the Molag’s Polymorph, please sound off here. Feedback is helpful for the team to assess. Thanks, all.

The suggestion that ZOS are ripping people off by changing a polymorph voice is silly. They didn't spend time and money to spite anyone.

Moreover, some of the original audio was weak. Casting Dawnbreaker sounded like you'd just stepped on an elderly crow, and many jokes were made about it. Now it sounds hilariously aggressive. Much more bang for your buck.

I feel bad disagreeing with the original post, and understand the appeal of taking McDowell's voice with us wherever we go, but I'd like the other side to be heard too. This was not a downgrade.

There will of course always be people on either side of things when there are two options to choose between. The problem here is that many people bought this poly (or bought crates with getting it being one of the goals) while it had the original sound effects. I don't think there's many people claiming it was specifically done to spite us, but it does mean the thing we bought no longer functions in the way we expected and that made us want it in the first place. I'm pretty sure this is a valid complaint.

The new voice in isolation is fine, but it is not Molag Bal. To many of us that is a downgrade.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi folks, just wanted to give a quick update. The team has been looking into feedback in the thread and taking it into consideration to see if there is a happy medium that can be found. They are also going to take a look at process and see how changes like this can either be avoided or better explained if they happen. The intention is always to try and make things better and not a nefarious switch. That being said, we understand where some are coming from with frustration in the change.

This will take some time to evaluate what can be done at this point, as the process is not a simple switched back to pre-U43. For transparency here, the earliest we'll hear back on where the team lands on this is post-U44. Again, if you have any strong feelings one way or another about the audio for the Molag Bal Polymorph, please let us know in the thread for the teams consideration. Thanks!

Pelanora

It's not as if there aren't enough tracks of the original voice to GenAI a new set of lines in the same 'voice' You're owned by GenAI central now zos, make use of the tools.

Fischblut

@ZOS_Kevin
Thank you for giving us more info!

Sadly, this doesn't give me hope to positive outcome ~3 months to wait for more info is very long time. And if I understand correctly, there is even no guarantee that Molag Bal Illusion polymorph will get his unique voice back? "Happy medium" can't exist in this situation, because players see the most (in)famous ESO villain and expected this image of recognizable character to sound in certain way.
Of course, if that actually means that we get back the original voice (maybe even with cool additions such as I've mentioned in earlier posts), and see some new polymorph with that new voice, it would be very happy medium

New voice turns Molag Bal Illusion from Lord of Domination into some random demon, which causes uncomfortable feeling if I equip it on my character. It's the same discomfort people would experience if, for example, senche mount would perform wolf's howl instead of feline growl. Howl sounds cool by itself (and on some canine creature), but it would not match the appearance of the feline creature. I would not buy such visual and audio combination if it sounded like this from the start... Even when contents of upcoming crates were revealed, I had no plan to buy this polymorph at all. Sure, the body details are good, but there are other polymorphs with nice visuals too. Only his awesome voice made me spend my gems on it, that's how important it was!
If I want to hear random demon voices from my characters without cosplaying as some famous entity, I equip Pumpkin Spectre and Scarecrow Spectre.

Why was there even a decision to replace the voice at all (back when it was second week of PTS)?

Cosmetic items were my safe and comfortable island in the ocean of constant stressful changes to abilities and armor sets. Now I can't be sure that there won't be another similar change to some existing item in future. This is very sad situation

Plus, this item brought huge amount of inspiration into my gameplay! I doubt that there will be another Molag Bal polymorph where we could hear this old voice again. Now it's just gone, after letting people to enjoy it for 2 months.
Such unique cosmetic item simply can't be replaced, and these 400 gems won't buy me anything as fun as that item ever again

acastanza_ESO

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi folks, just wanted to give a quick update. The team has been looking into feedback in the thread and taking it into consideration to see if there is a happy medium that can be found. They are also going to take a look at process and see how changes like this can either be avoided or better explained if they happen. The intention is always to try and make things better and not a nefarious switch. That being said, we understand where some are coming from with frustration in the change.

This will take some time to evaluate what can be done at this point, as the process is not a simple switched back to pre-U43. For transparency here, the earliest we'll hear back on where the team lands on this is post-U44. Again, if you have any strong feelings one way or another about the audio for the Molag Bal Polymorph, please let us know in the thread for the teams consideration. Thanks!

ZOS had a previously and explicitly stated policy of not making these sorts of changes. Ever. After a debacle many years ago. Why this policy seems to have been disregarded in this case is a clear failure of internal processes. The only acceptable solution is to revert it.



SoundFx should absolutely be considered "live art"

TheGamerSeal

TheKaan wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If others have feedback on the Molag’s Polymorph, please sound off here. Feedback is helpful for the team to assess. Thanks, all.

The suggestion that ZOS are ripping people off by changing a polymorph voice is silly. They didn't spend time and money to spite anyone.

Moreover, some of the original audio was weak. Casting Dawnbreaker sounded like you'd just stepped on an elderly crow, and many jokes were made about it. Now it sounds hilariously aggressive. Much more bang for your buck.

I feel bad disagreeing with the original post, and understand the appeal of taking McDowell's voice with us wherever we go, but I'd like the other side to be heard too. This was not a downgrade.

This was 100% a downgrade.

MasterSpatula

Even though I don't personally own the Polymorph, I agree with the OP's perspective completely.

However, when it comes to assets they don't already have ("giddyup, for example), if ZOS were to use AI tools to generate those assets in McDowell's voice without his express permission, they could and should be sued. So careful what you wish for.

Personofsecrets

I dislike that the Titan Mount is summoned by a portal only why using the Molag Bal poly. The portal is cool, but I don't always want to use the polymorph since I enjoy the armor design setups that I've come up with.

dcrush

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi folks, just wanted to give a quick update. The team has been looking into feedback in the thread and taking it into consideration to see if there is a happy medium that can be found. They are also going to take a look at process and see how changes like this can either be avoided or better explained if they happen. The intention is always to try and make things better and not a nefarious switch. That being said, we understand where some are coming from with frustration in the change.

This will take some time to evaluate what can be done at this point, as the process is not a simple switched back to pre-U43. For transparency here, the earliest we'll hear back on where the team lands on this is post-U44. Again, if you have any strong feelings one way or another about the audio for the Molag Bal Polymorph, please let us know in the thread for the teams consideration. Thanks!

ZOS had a previously and explicitly stated policy of not making these sorts of changes. Ever. After a debacle many years ago. Why this policy seems to have been disregarded in this case is a clear failure of internal processes. The only acceptable solution is to revert it.



SoundFx should absolutely be considered "live art"

It seems pretty clear that this policy has been quietly abandoned. See the thread on the Grim Focus permaglow.

TheGamerSeal

I was speaking at length with some guildmates about this change, not to mention other additions and changes, being outright unacceptable. One of my guildmates made the ever-infuriating but perfectly valid and realistic argument that players flow in and out of this game, and as such, ZeniMax is under no obligation whatsoever to appease established members of the community when they can simply focus on pleasing new members and ensuring a new wave of revenue.

I want to make it crystal clear that I am in no way defending ZeniMax in this regard; ZeniMax - and for that matter every other company providing a non-free experience to players - should be held accountable for this type of action. Acastanza_ESO pointed out something Matt Firor said, that once developers make a change like this, they enter into a no-win situation where some people want the old back while some prefer the new and making any choice at that moment results in someone feeling slighted in the end. It has been proven time and time again that ZeniMax has serious trouble with learning from its mistakes, and an offhand prime example of this would be the Scribing questline following the Psijic questline; one certainly being shorter than the other, but still generating a grind for content that people should have easier access to.

For ZeniMax to say "oops, sorry" every time they make this kind of mistake and promise to do better in the future only to do the exact same thing not once or twice but many times over should be a clear sign that the direction the leadership of ESO is taking is not the right one - that generates a few plain and simple courses of action for how ESO should be managed in the future, and if nobody is taking any of those courses of action, then nothing will ever change.

I implore ZeniMax to keep in mind those players that have kept ESO alive these past ten years and to consider them and their feedback to be of the utmost importance when it comes to making game-altering decisions from the smallest sound change to the largest full-blown content release.

Ezhh

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi folks, just wanted to give a quick update. The team has been looking into feedback in the thread and taking it into consideration to see if there is a happy medium that can be found.

While the reply is appreciated, I don't think any of us see how there can be a happy medium. People who want the original sounds restored simply want the original sounds restored. People who favour the new sounds will continue to favour the new sounds. It's not as though an option will be added so we can switch sound profiles for this one poly, or as though we'll be given a second free poly that looks the same with the other sounds.

Many players, myself included, believed there was an understanding art assets would not be changed. Yet here we are. The player base has struggled to feel real trust in the development process for a long time now and things like this, relatively minor as it may be in some ways, chip away into what trust remains. Can I now trust anything I buy from the crown store or try to get from a crate to remain as it is? It doesn't feel like it.

Metafae wrote: »

[snip]

If that's the case then all they need to do is say as much. I'm quite sure almost everyone unhappy about this would be much more understanding of the situation if this was confirmed as true.

[edited to remove quote]

Zyaneth_Bal

@ZOS_Kevin Can we at least know what the actual reason for the change?

I agree with previous posts saying that it’s wrong to change a product after it was sold if it’s working fine, especially if it’s such an iconic voice in this case. But knowing what forced the change will at least give us some kind of understanding. Because as things stand this change just feels random and unreasonable to the players and we can only guess

thedocbwarren

Agree with above, it's very likely a legal issue.

TheGamerSeal

Ezhh wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

[snip]

If that's the case then all they need to do is say as much. I'm quite sure almost everyone unhappy about this would be much more understanding of the situation if this was confirmed as true.

I wouldn't count on ZOS providing an explanation for their actions either; as far as I'm aware, there's still no definitive answer for why they renamed Endless Archive to what they're calling it now.

By the way, I broke into your house last night and stole a bunch of stuff; I'm really sorry for what I did and realize you would have liked advance notice and a reason for why I was doing it - anyway, I won't be returning the stuff.

[edited to remove quote]