VinnyGambini wrote: »Now when every class has access to scribing burst heal, what is the point of ward heal???
Oh, I forgot, without ward heal, sorcerers would have to use scribing heal, so no scribing spammable for them.
Summarizing:
1. Sorcerer was S-tier before ward buff. (PROOF - metallic monk won 1v1 tournament with magsorc before ward buff, whice streak is kinda weak in 1v1)
2. Sorcerer ward was buffed, making it 2 tiers above S-tier.
3. Scribing was introduced, and sorc with scribing spammable sits now 3 tiers above S-tier.
I mean WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? Basically every top PvP player rerolled to sorc. There is absolutely no reason to play other classes, maybe with exception to nightblade, because of invisibility and ganking potential.
And AFAIK sorcerer is NOT getting nerfed next patch.
Once more, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?
VinnyGambini wrote: »Now when every class has access to scribing burst heal, what is the point of ward heal???
Oh, I forgot, without ward heal, sorcerers would have to use scribing heal, so no scribing spammable for them.
Summarizing:
1. Sorcerer was S-tier before ward buff. (PROOF - metallic monk won 1v1 tournament with magsorc before ward buff, whice streak is kinda weak in 1v1)
2. Sorcerer ward was buffed, making it 2 tiers above S-tier.
3. Scribing was introduced, and sorc with scribing spammable sits now 3 tiers above S-tier.
I mean WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? Basically every top PvP player rerolled to sorc. There is absolutely no reason to play other classes, maybe with exception to nightblade, because of invisibility and ganking potential.
And AFAIK sorcerer is NOT getting nerfed next patch.
Once more, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?
Galeriano2 wrote: »On a more serious note fact that metalic monk won a duel tournament before ward change doesn't mean magsorc was a S tier PvP setup. There were duel tournaments where representatives of Your main class, templar, were ending in some of the top positions but somehow I don't think You will start saying that magplar is one of the top setups in PvP. There is a massive leap between duel tournaments and actuall PvP in Cyro, IC and BGs.
VinnyGambini wrote: »And yet sorcerer was buffed big time (3 tiers above). Comparing sorcerer to templar, currently I don't really see any aspect that templar does better.
VinnyGambini wrote: »Now when every class has access to scribing burst heal, what is the point of ward heal???
Oh, I forgot, without ward heal, sorcerers would have to use scribing heal, so no scribing spammable for them.
Summarizing:
1. Sorcerer was S-tier before ward buff. (PROOF - metallic monk won 1v1 tournament with magsorc before ward buff, whice streak is kinda weak in 1v1)
2. Sorcerer ward was buffed, making it 2 tiers above S-tier.
3. Scribing was introduced, and sorc with scribing spammable sits now 3 tiers above S-tier.
I mean WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? Basically every top PvP player rerolled to sorc. There is absolutely no reason to play other classes, maybe with exception to nightblade, because of invisibility and ganking potential.
And AFAIK sorcerer is NOT getting nerfed next patch.
Once more, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?
VinnyGambini wrote: »And yet sorcerer was buffed big time (3 tiers above). Comparing sorcerer to templar, currently I don't really see any aspect that templar does better.
I have a cat templar with acuity greataxe, shadow mundus.
Did some infinite archive grinding on it, then did the same on my Aetherial Ascention + Gaze of Sithis + Deadlands Demolisher MAGsorc (64 into mag and all enchants), frontbar is lightning staff with soul spammable.
I was shocked how much faster I kill stuff. It's like twice faster than templar in Acuity.
Yes that's not PvP, but I never before benchmarked those two builds at DPS because I was fairly certain jabplar built into pushing crit numbers up would be better at offensive than something that sits at 38k armor stat.
VinnyGambini wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »On a more serious note fact that metalic monk won a duel tournament before ward change doesn't mean magsorc was a S tier PvP setup. There were duel tournaments where representatives of Your main class, templar, were ending in some of the top positions but somehow I don't think You will start saying that magplar is one of the top setups in PvP. There is a massive leap between duel tournaments and actuall PvP in Cyro, IC and BGs.
O RLY? So you are saying templar was stronger in 1v1 that sorc?
Just fot your info: templar strongest point is staying inside his runes, which is extremly useful in 1v1 scenarios. So basically 1v1 arena is templar's strongest point, strongest possible environment.
Just for your info 2: sorcerers strongest point WAS mobility (before ward buff), which is not really useful in 1v1 arena. So basically 1v1 arena is sorcerers weakest possible environment.
So templar fighting sorcerer in his most FAUVORABLE environment and least favourable to sorcerer, still coudn't beat him. If that doesn't make sorcerer S-tier, then we seriously have different S-tier definition.
And yet sorcerer was buffed big time (3 tiers above). Comparing sorcerer to templar, currently I don't really see any aspect that templar does better.
Seriously, don't be delusional.
The constant dismissal of 1v1 performance as a measure for class balance is the most upsetting thing in this thread.
"There is strength gap between your opponents class and your own that can not be bridged by any available combination of gear/sets/skills? Tough luck buddy, bring a friend."
Followed closely by this nonsense:
"Maybe Sorc is objectively too strong, but did you know that a lot of people like playing Nightblade?"
Enjoy your PvP experience.
The constant dismissal of 1v1 performance as a measure for class balance is the most upsetting thing in this thread.
"There is strength gap between your opponents class and your own that can not be bridged by any available combination of gear/sets/skills? Tough luck buddy, bring a friend."
Followed closely by this nonsense:
"Maybe Sorc is objectively too strong, but did you know that a lot of people like playing Nightblade?"
Enjoy your PvP experience.
[
I don’t think you can use one medium of pvp to state that 1 class is the best, you can for sure use 1v1/dueking as an example to discuss what class is best at dueling but that doesn’t translate to that class being best at all other aspects
StaticWave wrote: »
So tl,dr:
1v1 is a very good metric for determining class balance, but it needs to be a case-by-case analysis because classes have different skills and playstyles.
Galeriano2 wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »And yet sorcerer was buffed big time (3 tiers above). Comparing sorcerer to templar, currently I don't really see any aspect that templar does better.
I have a cat templar with acuity greataxe, shadow mundus.
Did some infinite archive grinding on it, then did the same on my Aetherial Ascention + Gaze of Sithis + Deadlands Demolisher MAGsorc (64 into mag and all enchants), frontbar is lightning staff with soul spammable.
I was shocked how much faster I kill stuff. It's like twice faster than templar in Acuity.
Yes that's not PvP, but I never before benchmarked those two builds at DPS because I was fairly certain jabplar built into pushing crit numbers up would be better at offensive than something that sits at 38k armor stat.
Tbh acuity seems like a horrible choice for IA if You're planning to use it all the way no matter which class You picked.
IA especially in later stages heavily leans towards more tanky playstyles. Also visions and verses can make a big difference in time it takes to kill enemies there. I am not saying that templar is a better option for IA than sorc but there is definietly lot of variables to consider before claiming that tanky sorc is clearing arena faster than dmg oriented termplar.
Galeriano2 wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »And yet sorcerer was buffed big time (3 tiers above). Comparing sorcerer to templar, currently I don't really see any aspect that templar does better.
I have a cat templar with acuity greataxe, shadow mundus.
Did some infinite archive grinding on it, then did the same on my Aetherial Ascention + Gaze of Sithis + Deadlands Demolisher MAGsorc (64 into mag and all enchants), frontbar is lightning staff with soul spammable.
I was shocked how much faster I kill stuff. It's like twice faster than templar in Acuity.
Yes that's not PvP, but I never before benchmarked those two builds at DPS because I was fairly certain jabplar built into pushing crit numbers up would be better at offensive than something that sits at 38k armor stat.
Tbh acuity seems like a horrible choice for IA if You're planning to use it all the way no matter which class You picked.
IA especially in later stages heavily leans towards more tanky playstyles. Also visions and verses can make a big difference in time it takes to kill enemies there. I am not saying that templar is a better option for IA than sorc but there is definietly lot of variables to consider before claiming that tanky sorc is clearing arena faster than dmg oriented termplar.
I mean both are PvP chars and plar has permablock backbar. And I don't really care about how far I can go, it's about grinding those mythic leads.
The problem here is that both chars are tough but I expected plar in acuity to do more damage than bashing magsorc. And when I say "in acuity" I literally mean in effect that has 25s cooldown.
The constant dismissal of 1v1 performance as a measure for class balance is the most upsetting thing in this thread.
"There is strength gap between your opponents class and your own that can not be bridged by any available combination of gear/sets/skills? Tough luck buddy, bring a friend."
Followed closely by this nonsense:
"Maybe Sorc is objectively too strong, but did you know that a lot of people like playing Nightblade?"
Enjoy your PvP experience.
Don’t like hearing that more people play NB cause it ruins your argument about sorc popularity?The constant dismissal of 1v1 performance as a measure for class balance is the most upsetting thing in this thread.
"There is strength gap between your opponents class and your own that can not be bridged by any available combination of gear/sets/skills? Tough luck buddy, bring a friend."
Followed closely by this nonsense:
"Maybe Sorc is objectively too strong, but did you know that a lot of people like playing Nightblade?"
Enjoy your PvP experience.
Joy_Division wrote: »The constant dismissal of 1v1 performance as a measure for class balance is the most upsetting thing in this thread.
"There is strength gap between your opponents class and your own that can not be bridged by any available combination of gear/sets/skills? Tough luck buddy, bring a friend."
Followed closely by this nonsense:
"Maybe Sorc is objectively too strong, but did you know that a lot of people like playing Nightblade?"
Enjoy your PvP experience.
I do agree that downplaying 1v1 is a mistake.
I do not put that much stock in dueling tournaments because they are often governed by rules that do not apply in Cyrodiil (and thus not relevant to what I will experience. Even duels outside of Stormhaven are sometimes decided by gear loadouts decided beforehand (oh, I'm going to fight this class or this player, so let me wear ...). So that's not the 1v1 I'm looking for.
The 1v1 fights I come across in Cyrodiil are the ones that make the biggest impression upon me and stick in my memory the longest. It doesn't matter if they are uncommon. I remember them much more than running around Arrius Mine Tower. There are no other variables, so it's ultimately a measure of how the class, abilities, gear, and player-skill performs. So if I'm losing all the 1v1s, but winning a bunch of 5v4s or ZergvZergs or what not, I'm still going to walk away with a negative impression of my gameplay experience and feel something in inadequate.
StaticWave wrote: »
StaticWave wrote: »
@StaticWave
Farming AP to pull #1 on leaderboard (got Emp today during MYM which was fun pulled about 2 million AP in 5-6 hours), had on Echoing Vigor instead of hurricane (as you can see in the images). But was solo just had to keep stepping near large groups to pop vigor.
Pretty sure I made it a point to not go after you, might have gotten hit by a curse before I registered the name.
Were you also with the 5 man Sorc squad? They didn't like me very much, blew one of them up outnumbered then they proceeded to Ulti dump me and whisper me the next hour You were hanging around them a lot so curious.
VinnyGambini wrote: »Now when every class has access to scribing burst heal, what is the point of ward heal???
Oh, I forgot, without ward heal, sorcerers would have to use scribing heal, so no scribing spammable for them.
Summarizing:
1. Sorcerer was S-tier before ward buff. (PROOF - metallic monk won 1v1 tournament with magsorc before ward buff, whice streak is kinda weak in 1v1)
2. Sorcerer ward was buffed, making it 2 tiers above S-tier.
3. Scribing was introduced, and sorc with scribing spammable sits now 3 tiers above S-tier.
I mean WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? Basically every top PvP player rerolled to sorc. There is absolutely no reason to play other classes, maybe with exception to nightblade, because of invisibility and ganking potential.
And AFAIK sorcerer is NOT getting nerfed next patch.
Once more, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?
"I have observed that every class can at least stalemate a fight with sorc"
An equal skilled player playing a Sorc vs any other class except Nightblade its not a stalemate. There are only 2 classes that can reset fights; both are hardest-hitting right and are extremely hard to take down. They are also the fastest.
I would agree with the upper limit if the classes were balanced. You really only have 2 "S" tier classes at the moment. Wardens are only good if you have more then 1 of them. They are still not mobile enough. All the other classes have no way to reset fights they have to find structure or they die! Right now you have also have an imbalance with Range vs Melee this also works to benefit the sorc atm.
Sorcs good and bad are hard carried at min by ward, getting one to execute range only for them to spam 10k shield with a 5-8k heal in the same GCD is way to strong.
Hardened Warden should be put on par with the shield/healing from scribing. We already have skills with shield and healing there, so they should at least have similar results.
As it is, Hardened Ward makes no sense in this game, either for PvP or PvE. No one stated a decent reason on why a player would need such a huge shield in this game, specially with a burt heal attached.
After 66 pages, hope zos has learned something from the player's experience and feedback.
It will not come in the next patch, but changes are probably on the way.