Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

TechMaybeHic · July 25

Jsmalls wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

As I play my sorc more and get better at it, I'll say hardened ward has been a good set of training wheels. I can probably get rid of the Nibenay as I keep my shield up a lot better and rarely feel pressured outside of a ball group bombing. All while hitting someone trying to run away with a 8-9k meteor and and 8-9k curse and saw they died before the frag got there as I am starting to get a feel for the combo and using streak very offensively. I was just imagining what balorgs would have looked like Oh no; they might try to block curse next patch when I am already streaking through them.

@TechMaybeHic

The coefficient difference between meteor and curse is approximately ~30% higher for meteor.

If you're gonna make up numbers you mine as well be consistent.

Also meteor is telegraphed and very easy to counter. The timing required to guarantee meteor to hit with streak is extremely difficult (coming from a veteran Sorc). The reason Templars javelin is so popular with meteor is because there is a significant animation involved with the Hard CC (Knockback) versus Streak (stun) you can break free from streak and immediately block the meteor. This will also be the case for curse now.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been killed by Streak Meteor (it's unpopular for a reason).

Dawnbreaker is just the superior ultimate for Sorc (also is physical damage which gets buffed by our passive).

I should have screen cap it. I was looking at the log as I was surprised how they blew up. That's where I saw the numbers so maybe curse crit and meteor didn't. I was more surprised I did not see the frag on there as it consumed.

I've run Dawnbreaker as well but I honestly find it easier to Streak through for shooting star than get right on for the conal. Only hard part is randoms coming up and CC spamming. Might change my mind after vamp gets a lot less popular

xylena_lazarow · July 25

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've run Dawnbreaker as well but I honestly find it easier to Streak through for shooting star than get right on for the conal.

Dawnbreaker is more threatening to go against but fewer players can land it. Meteor is really good for dealing with Tarnished gankers and can hit opposing Sorcs as they try to Streak away. Given the rather weird state of Sorc ults right now, you can easily make an argument to run both Dawnbreaker and Meteor on your Sorc.

TechMaybeHic · July 25

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've run Dawnbreaker as well but I honestly find it easier to Streak through for shooting star than get right on for the conal.

Dawnbreaker is more threatening to go against but fewer players can land it. Meteor is really good for dealing with Tarnished gankers and can hit opposing Sorcs as they try to Streak away. Given the rather weird state of Sorc ults right now, you can easily make an argument to run both Dawnbreaker and Meteor on your Sorc.

Nothing worse than hitting DB to watch it delay as the target just streaked away or, they are stealth and it does that jumpy animation.

The guy I hit, was a ganky NB and was moving fast trying to get away after opening on me with a fresh shield. It was very satisfying.

Bushido2513 · July 25

Jsmalls wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

As I play my sorc more and get better at it, I'll say hardened ward has been a good set of training wheels. I can probably get rid of the Nibenay as I keep my shield up a lot better and rarely feel pressured outside of a ball group bombing. All while hitting someone trying to run away with a 8-9k meteor and and 8-9k curse and saw they died before the frag got there as I am starting to get a feel for the combo and using streak very offensively. I was just imagining what balorgs would have looked like Oh no; they might try to block curse next patch when I am already streaking through them.

@TechMaybeHic

The coefficient difference between meteor and curse is approximately ~30% higher for meteor.

If you're gonna make up numbers you mine as well be consistent.

Also meteor is telegraphed and very easy to counter. The timing required to guarantee meteor to hit with streak is extremely difficult (coming from a veteran Sorc). The reason Templars javelin is so popular with meteor is because there is a significant animation involved with the Hard CC (Knockback) versus Streak (stun) you can break free from streak and immediately block the meteor. This will also be the case for curse now.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been killed by Streak Meteor (it's unpopular for a reason).

Dawnbreaker is just the superior ultimate for Sorc (also is physical damage which gets buffed by our passive).

@Jsmalls

There's optimal and there's fun and they aren't always aligned. I use DB front bar for obvious reasons but that doesn't mean I can't understand why someone would enjoy every once in a while landing the meteor streak combo. It's not easy like some other combos but again it's fun when and if you can do it. Also sometimes we just want to throw big rocks.

I think the bigger takeaway was understanding that the shield worked to help someone learn sorc in an easier way. Again I think the high end of ward needs a look but this shows potential for the change to help sorcs enjoy sorc.

Alchimiste1 · July 25

Jsmalls wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

@StaticWave

That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.

Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?

Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.

I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.

In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.

Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak

Bushido2513 · July 25

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

@StaticWave

That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.

Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?

Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.

I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.

In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.

Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak

I've played both ways and enjoy hurricane more because it fits my style. Fights will vary in the number of snares and how you get hit by them so mostly I don't even notice them that much. I do notice when I'm moving slower than I'd prefer.

There is no right or wrong here just preference. There's 1vx videos with and without ele sus or crushing weapon. It's just up to the player preference and your best skill or build is really the one you're most comfortable with.

Alchimiste1 · July 25

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

@StaticWave

That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.

Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?

Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.

I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.

In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.

Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak

I've played both ways and enjoy hurricane more because it fits my style. Fights will vary in the number of snares and how you get hit by them so mostly I don't even notice them that much. I do notice when I'm moving slower than I'd prefer.

There is no right or wrong here just preference. There's 1vx videos with and without ele sus or crushing weapon. It's just up to the player preference and your best skill or build is really the one you're most comfortable with.

Yes very true. Just didn't sit right with me to say that chudan wasn't one of the best setups for solo OW magsorc

Jsmalls · July 25

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

@StaticWave

That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.

Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?

Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.

I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.

In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.

Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak

Chudan setup doesn't use snare removal either. A good Sorc will use streak for mobility when snared as this ability is not effected by snares, then use their add movement speed mobility as the snare wears off.

Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.

Even at 250 Ulti cost that's 12 seconds of 6k penetration and 250 (+129 one piece) weapon damage. Which is like 3x of a 5 pc set bonus.

Killing potential for Balorgh is hard to replace. Especially when you can get breach from two different ranged spammables currently in the game.

Alchimiste1 · July 25

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

@StaticWave

That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.

Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?

Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.

I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.

In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.

Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak

Chudan setup doesn't use snare removal either. A good Sorc will use streak for mobility when snared as this ability is not effected by snares, then use their add movement speed mobility as the snare wears off.

Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.

Even at 250 Ulti cost that's 12 seconds of 6k penetration and 250 (+129 one piece) weapon damage. Which is like 3x of a 5 pc set bonus.

Killing potential for Balorgh is hard to replace. Especially when you can get breach from two different ranged spammables currently in the game.

I'm talking about opportunity cost. Not having a snare removal while building into speed seems like clashing mechanics. You don't get that with chudan.

What ult are you using? also do you have ele sus in that hurricane setup ?

Jsmalls · July 25

Dawnbreaker and OL (I recognize that Balorgh doesn't work with OL, Balorgh is so powerful that its still worth it to run).

No ele sus in this setup, bars have Curse, mage light, frag, Crushing/Wield Soul, streak, Ward, aegis, surge, dark conversion, hurricane.

Also not "building" into speed. Major resolve is a must, minor expedition and AoE damage is a bonus.

Alchimiste1 · July 25

Jsmalls wrote: »

Dawnbreaker and OL (I recognize that Balorgh doesn't work with OL, Balorgh is so powerful that its still worth it to run).

No ele sus in this setup, bars have Curse, mage light, frag, Crushing/Wield Soul, streak, Ward, aegis, surge, dark conversion, hurricane.

Also not "building" into speed. Major resolve is a must, minor expedition and AoE damage is a bonus.

Ele sus is a constant 6k pen, and it gives 3 status effects. Consistency is good 1vX. And yes, like you said it helps DB and not OL.

I'm saying that using chudan is a good trade off based on opportunity cost.

Alchimiste1 · July 25

I don't care if you prefer to use hurricane and balorg. But to say that Chudan is not good for solo magsorc 1vX is disingenuous.

Jsmalls · July 25

I didn't say Chudan isn't good, I recognized that's it's a great 1v1 setup and a good open world setup. I said it's not the "optimal" setup. It leaves a lot to be desired, and it leaves a lot of damage at the door.

Bushido2513 · July 25

Jsmalls wrote: »

Dawnbreaker and OL (I recognize that Balorgh doesn't work with OL, Balorgh is so powerful that its still worth it to run).

No ele sus in this setup, bars have Curse, mage light, frag, Crushing/Wield Soul, streak, Ward, aegis, surge, dark conversion, hurricane.

Also not "building" into speed. Major resolve is a must, minor expedition and AoE damage is a bonus.

So lately I go back and forth testing different setup changes because there are disadvantages to each.

I enjoy the interrupt of CS but don't like the it's not fluid like CW and running CW means no need for ele and a spot for another skill. CS is a little easier to lock on and doesn't miss plus status effects. Also sometimes I don't feel like trying to aim and tie together CW with the light attack.

I've done well in fights with both and I don't have an issue bar swap weaving in the ele during a fight.

I've also run CS with no ele and done ok though you definitely notice the damage difference. Still, it's also an easier setup to run overall.

Again, just comes down to preference.

StaticWave · July 25

Tbh after all the fights I’ve had for the past 2 weeks in Cyro, it doesn’t matter if you have Hurricane or not. Ppl are going to catch up to you regardless of how much speed you have.

I do notice that Streaking to higher ground is still one of the best forms of kiting for Sorc, which regular movement speed cannot do.

Chudan would have helped with bar space here imo. you can even slot Major Breach on Wield Soul and Contingency with 8% mit and Minor Intellect/Endurance on thaf Ele Sus slot too.

xylena_lazarow · July 25

Jsmalls wrote: »

Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.

Balo's low uptime is not a trivial cost. Chudan is always on, and don't underestimate bar compression.

Bushido2513 · July 25

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build

2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.

Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better

After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.

@Alchimiste1

This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.

Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.

The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World

I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.

@StaticWave

That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.

Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?

Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.

I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.

In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.

Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak

Chudan setup doesn't use snare removal either. A good Sorc will use streak for mobility when snared as this ability is not effected by snares, then use their add movement speed mobility as the snare wears off.

Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.

Even at 250 Ulti cost that's 12 seconds of 6k penetration and 250 (+129 one piece) weapon damage. Which is like 3x of a 5 pc set bonus.

Killing potential for Balorgh is hard to replace. Especially when you can get breach from two different ranged spammables currently in the game.

This also comes down to risk reward ratio and comfort level. Definitely going to kill more with balorg but gotta be ok with being a little less tanky and a little more buff upkeep.

Syiccal · July 25

I main a plar, not the best class right now but it's my class..and it is near on impossible to kill a decent spec right now, even *** specs hard carried are difficult, get them to 25% beam and an 8k heal with an 8k shield takes them back to 50% plus..avoiding any execute dmg..

Bushido2513 · July 25

Syiccal wrote: »

I main a plar, not the best class right now but it's my class..and it is near on impossible to kill a decent spec right now, even *** specs hard carried are difficult, get them to 25% beam and an 8k heal with an 8k shield takes them back to 50% plus..avoiding any execute dmg..

I have to redo my build a bit to fix my low health because a plar was able to reliably kill me and others with vate staff, hrothgar, javeline, potl, and beam. Not sure what the other sets were but I thought the idea was pretty cool

Jsmalls · July 25

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.

Balo's low uptime is not a trivial cost. Chudan is always on, and don't underestimate bar compression.

I run Heroism/Mag/Stam pots and I get a lot of kills. Balorgh is a good friend of mine.

The thing is it's not bar compression, bar compression is adding breach to your spammable to slot a whole extra skill. This is a matter of ele sus vs hurricane. Both which require uptime.

With hurricane on and major breach on my spammable I can just switch from Target to target on the fly without using an extra GCD to apply breach. That's removing a GCD to deliver the same burst. That's invaluable.

TechMaybeHic · July 25

Syiccal wrote: »

I main a plar, not the best class right now but it's my class..and it is near on impossible to kill a decent spec right now, even *** specs hard carried are difficult, get them to 25% beam and an 8k heal with an 8k shield takes them back to 50% plus..avoiding any execute dmg..

I mained plar since beta. There are good things about plar, but damage on my sorc from curse with its hitting twice and soon being full on AOE and no fill requirement; makes it at least twice as good as PotL/PL. Then Frags is like a poor mans merciless resolve, but not Temu level poor. I would say Templar survivability is not nearly that much better to warrant so low of burst. I will let others debate whether it should, or shouldn't be; but the disparity is there

Bushido2513 · July 25

Jsmalls wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.

Balo's low uptime is not a trivial cost. Chudan is always on, and don't underestimate bar compression.

I run Heroism/Mag/Stam pots and I get a lot of kills. Balorgh is a good friend of mine.

The thing is it's not bar compression, bar compression is adding breach to your spammable to slot a whole extra skill. This is a matter of ele sus vs hurricane. Both which require uptime.

With hurricane on and major breach on my spammable I can just switch from Target to target on the fly without using an extra GCD to apply breach. That's removing a GCD to deliver the same burst. That's invaluable.

Valuable indeed though I don't want to leave out the ability to interrupt at range and proc status effects for a little extra damage.

This is why I end up alternating. Ideally if I could build a skill it would just be cs with breach and the ability to infuse with the light attack.

StaticWave · July 26

Jsmalls wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.

Balo's low uptime is not a trivial cost. Chudan is always on, and don't underestimate bar compression.

I run Heroism/Mag/Stam pots and I get a lot of kills. Balorgh is a good friend of mine.

The thing is it's not bar compression, bar compression is adding breach to your spammable to slot a whole extra skill. This is a matter of ele sus vs hurricane. Both which require uptime.

With hurricane on and major breach on my spammable I can just switch from Target to target on the fly without using an extra GCD to apply breach. That's removing a GCD to deliver the same burst. That's invaluable.

Don't forget the on demand Minor Vul, Burning, and Minor Brittle from Ele sus. That's 5% damage taken, a decent DoT, and 10% crit damage. You also get to free up your front bar glyph for something else or even poisons. Realistically, those status effects end up matching the power of Balorgh. It's just a matter of preference at this point, unless you can somehow have Balorgh AND Ele sus on your bar (doable if you use Major Resolve for Shocking Soul)

Bushido2513 · July 26

Running both I do feel like sometimes there's more damage in ele and cs however sometimes it's just burstier when the overloads arrive at the same time as the CW and I didn't have to apply ele.

Jsmalls · July 26

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.

Balo's low uptime is not a trivial cost. Chudan is always on, and don't underestimate bar compression.

I run Heroism/Mag/Stam pots and I get a lot of kills. Balorgh is a good friend of mine.

The thing is it's not bar compression, bar compression is adding breach to your spammable to slot a whole extra skill. This is a matter of ele sus vs hurricane. Both which require uptime.

With hurricane on and major breach on my spammable I can just switch from Target to target on the fly without using an extra GCD to apply breach. That's removing a GCD to deliver the same burst. That's invaluable.

Don't forget the on demand Minor Vul, Burning, and Minor Brittle from Ele sus. That's 5% damage taken, a decent DoT, and 10% crit damage. You also get to free up your front bar glyph for something else or even poisons. Realistically, those status effects end up matching the power of Balorgh. It's just a matter of preference at this point, unless you can somehow have Balorgh AND Ele sus on your bar (doable if you use Major Resolve for Shocking Soul)

With a 7.5 second application and status effects lasting 3.5~ seconds after CP reduction you have a 50% cooldown on all of those status effects.

Additionally by not using a physical damage spammable you'll be using a physical damage enchant to upkeep minor breach at a decent rate (which has insignificant application damage). I use a shock enchant which means I have a ~80-90% uptime of minor vulnerability and charged weapon is a decent tooltip.

Minor brittle i don't have access to as I prefer s&b over frost staff. But once again you're looking at a 50% uptime on that.

But I very much disagree that burning and minor brittle match the power of Balorgh. Rough estimate would be adding 200-400 DPS (considering there is a 50% downtime) and I just don't think that's as valuable as adding 20% damage onto your ultimates and follow ups.

For dueling I think the preferred is ele sus and major defile on wield soul.

Bushido2513 · July 26

Just recalled today, one interesting thing is to consider which works better in lag and which is better when more sorcs are around

Jsmalls · July 26

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Just recalled today, one interesting thing is to consider which works better in lag and which is better when more sorcs are around

To be fair I refuse to play in laggy conditions. I'll just turn the game off. That's why I don't play in Gray Host (notable for its poor server performance).

But Imbue weapon is a rough skill to use in lag, I'll agree to that.

xylena_lazarow · July 26

Jsmalls wrote: »

Minor brittle i don't have access to as I prefer s&b... the power of Balorgh.

What the hell does MagSorc need SnB for lol.

I think you have a decent setup, it's just weird to assert that yours is optimal like this.

Jsmalls · July 26

This was all in response to someone saying that Chudan/wretched/crafty is the optimal setup.

I strongly disagree that's the optimal setup, but I do think it's a very easy setup to play (high recovery, high magicka for Ward, and a major buff that if you let drop could get you killed is always active). It leaves a lot of kill potential on the table, and some versatility with movement speed. I'm my OPINION it's a setup that brings the skill floor up and has a lower skill ceiling. There is nothing wrong with that though.

The setup I'm using definitely isn't optimal (for example light attacks with S&B are harder to fit in and one handed enchants are weaker). I have reasons for running things the way I run them mostly for preference or experiences (I like the S&B passives and prefer to use stamina for blocking on my back bar), and I've definitely seen setups better than my own.

Bushido2513 · July 26

Jsmalls wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Just recalled today, one interesting thing is to consider which works better in lag and which is better when more sorcs are around

To be fair I refuse to play in laggy conditions. I'll just turn the game off. That's why I don't play in Gray Host (notable for its poor server performance).

But Imbue weapon is a rough skill to use in lag, I'll agree to that.

I don't like lag either and tend to stick to bgs and ic but noticed I guess because of the event there's more lag than usual to go around so I switched to CS for now because I couldn't hit enemies or because of bad timing the attack wouldn't even register or go out.

Light attacks don't work with cs but at least I get the cs hit. Sucks but welcome to ESO.

I did notice I'm seeing more sorcs in IC with overloads a plenty.