nerf siege

Cloudrest

Elendir2am wrote: »

So, if you want any respect from me to your experiences with PvP, then stop make untrue claim about "players don't go out of keeps to fight with their skills". You wouldn't have any problems with sieges, if none come out of keep.

Your "respect" has no bearings on my experience, nor does it have any correlation with objective reality in PvP. Hate to burst your bubble.

I think you're confusing trying to siege a keep to get inside with already being inside of a keep whilst having 4-5 coldfire ballistas and a few trebs trying to hit you from the walls and players rotating meatbags on the ground at you because they've given up trying to actually fight you using their own abilities. The amount of times where we've had to leave a keep out of sheer boredom because people stopped coming out to try and fight us, or we've actually just taken the keep entirely after 30-40 minutes of fighting because the faction decided to respawn somewhere else and stop trying is too much for my liking.

People don't improve their mechanics and game knowledge by giving up and resorting to siege, or outright leaving entirely to avoid PvP.

Soraka

Sounds like you need some bubbles. Or some friends with bubbles.
ETA:
(________) I cast one for you.

Cloudrest

Soraka wrote: »

Sounds like you need some bubbles. Or some friends with bubbles.
ETA:
(________) I cast one for you.

Nah. Siege shield isn't needed. What is needed, however, is the ability to block siege damage again, or them to tone down the damage ticks by effectively 20% across the board if they don't want to fix the bug that prevents siege dmg from being blocked.

Soraka

Cloudrest wrote: »

Soraka wrote: »

Sounds like you need some bubbles. Or some friends with bubbles.
ETA:
(________) I cast one for you.

Nah. Siege shield isn't needed. What is needed, however, is the ability to block siege damage again, or them to tone down the damage ticks by effectively 20% across the board if they don't want to fix the bug that prevents siege dmg from being blocked.

Sad bubble noises.

nuttytom

oil as the highest damage received in a 17 min fight with ONLY 9 ticks?? this is not good gameplay

OBJnoob

Screenshots don't show gameplay. It's easy to fake a screenshot by just standing there, taking a boatload of damage, and then offering that as proof.

Though we disagree on this issue... And though we may play on different platforms... We are playing the same game. So I, and perhaps others, would like to SEE how those complaining about siege are actively trying to deal with it. DID it go through block? I want to SEE. Was there no indication on the ground? I want to see. Were 5 players Xing 30 while 5 others bombarded the tower with siege? I want to see.

It isn't an accusation. It's a request.

I just don't see situations like this happening very often... Or really ever to the extent being described here. So without seeing it I'm just a little suspicious I guess. That some people may be exaggerating or may not be doing all they can do to deal with it. Your reaction to my clip only makes me more suspicious because we disagree SO much. And the longer this thread goes without someone else providing a clip makes me more suspicious also.

If it happens frequently then a clip should be provided shortly. I requested a clip and was told yes by @nuttytom ... I don't know, at least a week ago.

Some people are adamant that siege is a huge problem. They agree to show proof of a particular kind and then don't follow through. If you were me and I was you... What would you assume of me?

Please don't quote me again unless you have a clip for me. I have a problem with not being able to keep my mouth shut... But without a clip, I would very much like to be done here. I'm quite happy with the current state of siege and, without a clip to discuss, doubt very much my continued presense here will help your cause.

nuttytom

why on earth would i fake it? I dont need to fake it because it happens to us multiple times on a daily basis. you dont see these situations because you dont play the type of pvp that me and my group do. Siege is 1000000% a problem with the amount of damage it does. it shouldnt be this much higher than actual player skills at all. where is the incentive for players to actually fight with their skills if siege is like this?

here is the damage i dealt in that exact same fight so you dont say its "fake" again.

VaranisArano

Cloudrest wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

So, if you want any respect from me to your experiences with PvP, then stop make untrue claim about "players don't go out of keeps to fight with their skills". You wouldn't have any problems with sieges, if none come out of keep.

Your "respect" has no bearings on my experience, nor does it have any correlation with objective reality in PvP. Hate to burst your bubble.

I think you're confusing trying to siege a keep to get inside with already being inside of a keep whilst having 4-5 coldfire ballistas and a few trebs trying to hit you from the walls and players rotating meatbags on the ground at you because they've given up trying to actually fight you using their own abilities. The amount of times where we've had to leave a keep out of sheer boredom because people stopped coming out to try and fight us, or we've actually just taken the keep entirely after 30-40 minutes of fighting because the faction decided to respawn somewhere else and stop trying is too much for my liking.

People don't improve their mechanics and game knowledge by giving up and resorting to siege, or outright leaving entirely to avoid PvP.

Players also don't magically improve by bashing their heads into the same wall over and over again. Beat the same PUGs/zerg over and over, and eventually they'll get tired of it and move on.

If players have given up on fighting you with their own abilities because your skill is so high compared to theirs, nerfing siege isn't going to help make them more skillful players. It'll just make it easier for you to keep killing them at their current skill level.

It's a recurring theme in this discussion. Skilled players want lesser skilled players to abandon siege and face off in a test of skill. As if lesser skilled players should be obligated to fight fair with just their abilities when the end result of that is getting their butt handed to them over and over again. You might be bored with the current situation, but I doubt your opponents enjoy fighting someone who makes them feel their only chance is to resort to lots of siege rather than their own abilities. After the 3rd or 4th death, even a zergling will bow to pragmatism and accept that "forward, charge!" is not working and consider either siege or going to do something that makes them more AP.

OBJnoob

Why would you fake it? To achieve your desired result of course.

Why would you say you'd provide a clip and then not do it? Especially if it happens to you "multiple times on a daily basis."

You have no idea what sort of PvP I play.

1000000 isn't a possible percentage. It is however a possible exaggeration.

I don't know you Tom. You might be the pillar of your community-- father of the year, employee of the month and all that. But if you want to convince a stranger of something you might just have to entertain their concerns a little bit. You'll get no free honesty points from me. For all I know you're nutty. And for all you know I'm a noob.

I can see that you have shown some evidence for your side. And it is something. It isn't what I asked for, but perhaps it persuaded someone. It really shouldn't surprise or upset you that I am still not satisfied. I told you what it'd take... You agreed... And you didn't deliver.

nuttytom

can you answer this one simple question: is it okay that 9 ticks of oil is my highest damage received in a 17 minute fight? you can clearly see the other abilities i got hit by in the cmx report; how much they hit me and how much overall damage they did to me during this 17 minute fight. Is it okay for oil to be on top of that list in ONLY 9 (NINE) hits? yes or no.

and okay, you will get your clips. even then im sure you will come up with some counter argument to discredit what me and many others have been saying, or to try and tell me to "adapt".

Soraka

You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct

Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.

But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.

Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".

And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over

Cloudrest

VaranisArano wrote: »

Players also don't magically improve by bashing their heads into the same wall over and over again. Beat the same PUGs/zerg over and over, and eventually they'll get tired of it and move on.

If players have given up on fighting you with their own abilities because your skill is so high compared to theirs, nerfing siege isn't going to help make them more skillful players..

How do you think any of us who have reputations of being good players got good in the first place? I don't know anyone, myself included, that logged onto ESO and was a mechanical genius who mastered the ins-and-outs of the combat system on day one. I started how everyone else does: deathly afraid of dying in PvP whilst zerging in Cyrodiil as I got absolutely destroyed by people running around towers with the OG dizzy swing and leap combo.

I made some friends. Joined a guild. Slowly learned how Cyrodiil works over the course of a few months. I got frustrated with these immortal players, and I definitely zerged them down and died a lot, but I didn't drop siege on them. I found out the builds, tried to emulate it with middling success, but I learned from every death. Then I started dueling in Riften of all places! Stormhaven was full of sweats, far too scary for someone like myself. But months went by, and I eventually got the courage to go there. Then I started doing really well. The better I got at dueling, the better I got at playing outnumbered in Cyrodiil, too.

I learned by "bashing my head into a wall again and again". I kept fighting the best players at the time, dying to the best players at the time, learning from the best players at the time, until I started beating the best players at the time. It probably took me two years of progress in total. Does everyone have that kind of time to invest? Probably not, but I wasn't playing 8 hours a day either. I see so many 5-star Grand Overlords running around for years on end that still play like someone who just got introduced to PvP yesterday, calling people hackers/macroers in zonechat. It's ridiculous. ESO's the first MMO that I've played seriously and it's definitely the first that I've PvP'd in. I've loved every second of it.

Just like everyone else who's considered a top player. We all started somewhere. My point is that by giving up and instead of TRYING, even if you are actively DYING, you're not going to learn anything about combat in ESO by pressing left click with a coldfire ballista. Get out there on the ground, find out what they're doing, and don't be afraid to die.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Skilled players want lesser skilled players to abandon siege and face off in a test of skill. As if lesser skilled players should be obligated to fight fair with just their abilities when the end result of that is getting their butt handed to them over and over again.

Fighting someone like myself with probably 6000+ hours in Cyrodiil isn't going to be a fair fight by any stretch of the imagination. It shouldn't be a fair fight, either. Experience should take precedent. I want them to start learning like the rest of us did instead of avoiding PvP and accusing people of using cheats/macros in zonechat. People don't even try to learn anymore. They just take the path of least resistance, and if they're still getting farmed, they cry foul and weaponize the report system.

Luede

nuttytom wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

nuttytom wrote: »

still think siege is okay? (this was invisible btw, so dont say "just move out of it" lmao) also this is when we were getting chased by 30+ ppl as a 6 man group.



my friends metrics from a different fight, this time there was just 2 of us vs a zerg... notice how there is literally 3 player skills in here out of the 13 highest damage received? does anyone think this is acceptable? players can literally do INSANE amounts of damage without even using their skills.

[snip]

or, just MAYBE, we are fighting vs a zerg as a small group for 20+ mins and trying to have some fun? [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

without knowing you, i would like to try to estimate your way of playing. as soon as you arrive at a keep, you have two variants. 1. the gate is not open, now you try to lure out as many players as possible to farm them, if it is too much it goes to the next tower.

Variant 2. the first gate is open, you go into the keep and immediately go to the right, or left, to lure the players in there, to farm them in an ult, synergie and procc combo. after you have farmed countless newbs and randoms, they then get the idea to use siege weapons, because otherwise there is no way to get you out of the tower in the constant "LOS" running, hiding behind boxes and bending around corners in Mistform. Then after you can no longer counterheal all the siege weapons, you come to the forum to complain about the siege weapons do too much damage, because it is totally unfair that you can not farm all day in the tower.

You completely neglect the fact that you could have left the tower or the keep long before the wipe, but you want to enjoy your "fun" to the maximum.

Have I assessed correctly?

Iriidius

Avoiding or outhealing 1 or 2 coldfire ballistas from 1 player is easy. Not getting hit by siege if the whole ground is covered by meatbags, you are already fighting outnumbered, are low at ressoursses and get stunned, snared and immobilized all the time is almost impossible.
If you have to LoS around a tower or another object to stay alive and get sieged you can either stay inside, get hit by the siege and die or you leave object and get sniped by 20 coward snipers scattered everywhere from safe distance/walls that run/streak/cloak if you only come near them. Killing a sieging 30k hp player standing alone under low pressure is easy, killing a sieging 50k hp (permablock as soon as he leaves siege) troll getting healed by healers while under heavy pressure isnt.
It is not on you to judge if they would have died without siege too. Maybe you think 4 players shouldnt win against 20 but you cant claim they would have lost anyway. I have often seen smallscales win against much larger groups and if nutty would have lost anyway and the siege wouldnt have made a difference, then why is he complaining about siege and not about beeing outnumbered? I also get annoyed when other alliance smallscale
I am against nerfing siege because it can be used to defend keeps outnumbered and get many kills when going out and fighting would be suicide. I often use oil and coldfire to defend castles vs faction stacks alone and usually get a few kills. Defensive siege seems to be intended to be used by outnumbered defenders from walls against attackers while offensive siege seems to be intended to be used to siege down walls and maingates and to kill defending players on wall.

NordSwordnBoard

"We affix bayonets and charge like true warriors, while those cowards hide behind sandbags and mow us down with machine guns. They won't give up their advantage over us so we have a chance of winning based on martial prowess."

Delimber

It's a siege weapon, it should be devastating to be hit by.

Short of making siege damage indiscriminately, all you can do is avoid it and the zerg/ball group.

FantasticFreddie

Siege has very simple counter play, you know what it's called? MOVE.
Don't stand in siege. It's a giant red circle that telegraphs over several seconds. Just move. It's slow enough you can just walk out of it in 90% of the cases. If you are trying to stand on a ram while 6 people pour oils on you from above, that's a you problem. If you are fighting in an open field and can't move out of the giant, creeping red circle, that is again a you problem.
Siege is working as intended. You aren't supposed to be able to eat NINE ticks of it like a player is posting above, you are supposed to move out of it. It's entire job is to deny you space to move.
You have your movement buttons for a reason. Use them.

VaranisArano

Cloudrest, the key word there is "slowly."

I likewise slowly learned to get better through trial and error. Unapologetically, part of my learning process was learning to recognize when rushing in to fight with my own abilities was only going to get me killed while accomplishing nothing, so I'd be better off sieging those players who were so far beyond my current skill level or doing something else entirely. After all, one essential skill in Cyrodiil is learning to pick one's fights.

A repeated theme in this discussion is the idea that lesser skilled players should be forced to engage higher skilled players with their abilities even though it puts them at an obvious disadvantage. That getting farmed by a 1vXer in a tower or a small group in a keep is some sort of positive good that will eventually make them more skilled.

Uh huh. I mean, I can see why the farmer says so.

I remain convinced that one of the first major steps away from being an overconfident zergling is learning to recognize when you're dying pointlessly, to break away, reassess, and then either break out the siege, leave to do something more profitable, or decide "No, I'm gonna try to learn something each time they kill me."

You can't force players to choose the latter by nerfing siege or complaining that they're avoiding PVP, especially not when you're the ones killing them over and over when they try to PVP with their abilities. That's something they have to decide for themselves.

FantasticFreddie

VaranisArano wrote: »

Cloudrest, the key word there is "slowly."

I likewise slowly learned to get better through trial and error. Unapologetically, part of my learning process was learning to recognize when rushing in to fight with my own abilities was only going to get me killed while accomplishing nothing, so I'd be better off sieging those players who were so far beyond my current skill level or doing something else entirely. After all, one essential skill in Cyrodiil is learning to pick one's fights.

A repeated theme in this discussion is the idea that lesser skilled players should be forced to engage higher skilled players with their abilities even though it puts them at an obvious disadvantage. That getting farmed by a 1vXer in a tower or a small group in a keep is some sort of positive good that will eventually make them more skilled.

Uh huh. I mean, I can see why the farmer says so.

I remain convinced that one of the first major steps away from being an overconfident zergling is learning to recognize when you're dying pointlessly, to break away, reassess, and then either break out the siege, leave to do something more profitable, or decide "No, I'm gonna try to learn something each time they kill me."

You can't force players to choose the latter by nerfing siege or complaining that they're avoiding PVP, especially not when you're the ones killing them over and over when they try to PVP with their abilities. That's something they have to decide for themselves.

What's that quote from the very first Pirates movie?
"I'd have killed you in a fair fight!"

"Well that's not much incentive to fight fair now is it?"

Everyone once and a while people get salty with me and say I'm useless without my group, I depend on my group to kill anything, just a ball group sheeter, etc.

Well yeah. I'm a healer. Of course I need my group. What am I going to do in a 1v1, combat prayer you to death? Why would I do that to myself? Just so Mr. Thinks-He-Should-Be-Able-To-Solo-12-Players can boost his ego with a kill? Nah.

Soraka

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Cloudrest, the key word there is "slowly."

I likewise slowly learned to get better through trial and error. Unapologetically, part of my learning process was learning to recognize when rushing in to fight with my own abilities was only going to get me killed while accomplishing nothing, so I'd be better off sieging those players who were so far beyond my current skill level or doing something else entirely. After all, one essential skill in Cyrodiil is learning to pick one's fights.

A repeated theme in this discussion is the idea that lesser skilled players should be forced to engage higher skilled players with their abilities even though it puts them at an obvious disadvantage. That getting farmed by a 1vXer in a tower or a small group in a keep is some sort of positive good that will eventually make them more skilled.

Uh huh. I mean, I can see why the farmer says so.

I remain convinced that one of the first major steps away from being an overconfident zergling is learning to recognize when you're dying pointlessly, to break away, reassess, and then either break out the siege, leave to do something more profitable, or decide "No, I'm gonna try to learn something each time they kill me."

You can't force players to choose the latter by nerfing siege or complaining that they're avoiding PVP, especially not when you're the ones killing them over and over when they try to PVP with their abilities. That's something they have to decide for themselves.

What's that quote from the very first Pirates movie?
"I'd have killed you in a fair fight!"

"Well that's not much incentive to fight fair now is it?"

Everyone once and a while people get salty with me and say I'm useless without my group, I depend on my group to kill anything, just a ball group sheeter, etc.

Well yeah. I'm a healer. Of course I need my group. What am I going to do in a 1v1, combat prayer you to death? Why would I do that to myself? Just so Mr. Thinks-He-Should-Be-Able-To-Solo-12-Players can boost his ego with a kill? Nah.

Amen.
Heal them to death is what I call it.

Jaraal

I can see both sides of the debate. It's a fine line between crutching on massive damage from the safety of 50 meters and being willing to die in order how to learn how to counter highly skilled players face to face. I'm nowhere near being an elite player, but I have learned a lot by being willing to leave my comfort zone and trying different skills, sets, and strategies.

OBJnoob

I just feel like to a certain extent using everything in the game is fair play. I only say "to a certain extent," because I don't mean exploits. Brokenly strong skills, gear, and tactics? Totally fair play.

I'm sure 5 people able to kite, tank, heal, and just withstand 15+ people are using some pretty strong tactics as well. So I just don't see why it matters if you were finally taken down by more and more and more players... Some lucky negate/Colossus/dark convergence... Or siege.

Isn't the point, either way, that the pressure just eventually mounted beyond a tolerable threshold? And isn't that expected? And fair, when drastically outnumbered?

Maybe someone on the other side of the aisle can answer: are you trying to take the keep, or just AP farm a tower? Are you standing there, within reason, tanking the damage and fighting back? Or are you kiting and ulti dumping kiting and ulti dumping? Because some people kite so insanely hard it really is annoying and if I ever had cold fire in my inventory I'd probably try to whack them too.

Nobody is obligated by honor to let you farm them. You think they are toxic. I'm sure they think you are toxic as well.

TheMightyRevan

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Siege has very simple counter play, you know what it's called? MOVE.
Don't stand in siege. It's a giant red circle that telegraphs over several seconds. Just move. It's slow enough you can just walk out of it in 90% of the cases. If you are trying to stand on a ram while 6 people pour oils on you from above, that's a you problem. If you are fighting in an open field and can't move out of the giant, creeping red circle, that is again a you problem.
Siege is working as intended. You aren't supposed to be able to eat NINE ticks of it like a player is posting above, you are supposed to move out of it. It's entire job is to deny you space to move.
You have your movement buttons for a reason. Use them.

please read the previous replies, before you repeat the same invalid argument for the 100th time. i thought we already moved on from the standard: " just move " statement.

nuttytom

how many times do i have to say that yes, obviously 1 siege isnt a problem and we can easily move out of it... but we are getting hit by multiple sieges from many different angles and are constantly on the move anyway.

there is also times when the AoE from siege is invisible but that is a separate issue anyway.

OBJnoob wrote: »

I just feel like to a certain extent using everything in the game is fair play. I only say "to a certain extent," because I don't mean exploits. Brokenly strong skills, gear, and tactics? Totally fair play.

I'm sure 5 people able to kite, tank, heal, and just withstand 15+ people are using some pretty strong tactics as well. So I just don't see why it matters if you were finally taken down by more and more and more players... Some lucky negate/Colossus/dark convergence... Or siege.

Isn't the point, either way, that the pressure just eventually mounted beyond a tolerable threshold? And isn't that expected? And fair, when drastically outnumbered?

Yes we are eventually going to die to the sheer numbers of players even if siege isnt involved - the point is that siege is just completely not fun to play against and to die to in this scenario. Why should our fight come to a premature end because we are getting hit by massive damage from siege? Why would you not want to encourage players to actually have to use their skills in fights? Im not even saying siege should be removed entirely to help us in these situations, but the damage needs adjusting, which is literally the whole point of this thread. Siege deals way too much damage to players and needs to be toned down by AT LEAST 20%, if not more.

nuttytom

Delimber wrote: »

It's a siege weapon, it should be devastating to be hit by.

Short of making siege damage indiscriminately, all you can do is avoid it and the zerg/ball group.

But we WANT to fight zergs because its fun killing 20+ man groups as a small group. What else would you suggest we do? Just join the zerg ourselves?

nuttytom

Soraka wrote: »

You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct

Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.

But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.

Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".

And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over

What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.

I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.

Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.

Soraka

nuttytom wrote: »

Soraka wrote: »

You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct

Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.

But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.

Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".

And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over

What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.

I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.

Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.

Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
I have seen many small groups run siege shield to counter and cast it on the move. 50% reduction. Better than your 20% reduced suggestion even.

nuttytom

Soraka wrote: »

nuttytom wrote: »

Soraka wrote: »

You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct

Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.

But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.

Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".

And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over

What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.

I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.

Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.

Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%

ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight

VaranisArano

Jaraal wrote: »

I can see both sides of the debate. It's a fine line between crutching on massive damage from the safety of 50 meters and being willing to die in order how to learn how to counter highly skilled players face to face. I'm nowhere near being an elite player, but I have learned a lot by being willing to leave my comfort zone and trying different skills, sets, and strategies.

As have I, but there is a definite different between the self-directed desire to get out of our comfort zone, learn and probably die in process, vs what I'm hearing, which is tower farmers and small group farmers lamenting that players don't come out to be farmed mercilessly to face them with abilities anymore.

The former is a great attitude for personal growth. But sometimes it's bad tactics. FantasticFreddie's PotC quote illustrates that dynamic perfectly.

I will maintain that sieging is a smart tactic against any enemy who wants you to chase them onto ground of their own choosing (like a tower farmer) and a smart tactic against groups who can't force you off your siege (like a group farming in a keep.) Its a smart tactic for when you don't want to be farmed.

Soraka

nuttytom wrote: »

Soraka wrote: »

nuttytom wrote: »

Soraka wrote: »

You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct

Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.

But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.

Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".

And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over

What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.

I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.

Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.

Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%

ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight

You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.