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nerf siege
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acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!5 -
Cloudrest✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
Lol. BG's are boring. I prefer 4v20 heavily outnumbered fights in trikeeps. I like it when factions respond with overwhelming force.
I don't like it, however, when there's 15 people sitting on the walls, afraid to come down and PvP, spamming unblockable coldfire siege that does 12k DPS through block. If you wanna run around and not PvP, I hear Domination is a great mode in BG's for you!Formerly @Cloudrest, now @Nightwielder in-game on PC/NA. Cyrodiil PvPer; retired duelist and PvE Trifecta DPS.Empyrean Knight Gwynevere | ♔ Breton Templar | AR50 Grand Overlord II | 9400+ hours | Aldmeri DominionMerethiel of Vaulinchyl |🗡Altmer Nightblade | AR50 Grand Overlord I | 3000+ hours | Aldmeri Dominion♔ Immortal Redeemer | ♔ Tick-Tock Tormentor | ♔🗡 2x Gryphon Heart | ♔ Godslayer | 🗡 Dawnbringer | ♔ 7x Former Empress3 -
nuttytom✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread1 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread
Siege is, and should be, a viable countermeasure in the siege-centric open world PVP mode.
If you still want 1vX/group fights, (instead of the true small-scale of 4v4v4 in BGs), there is always IC.
There isn't siege there, and there are plenty of obstacles to LoS around.9 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread
I don’t think he is. I don’t know you. But I do know 2 others in this thread, and one in particular that is always asking for nerfs whenever something doesn’t allow them to kill others and yet, be killed themselves. Whatever they can do to win, they will do. They have a hard time losing. But siege is a part of this game. And it’s a part of the game that many players enjoy. And it is very helpful in taking down a tank or defending against enemies.
I’ve read through this entire thread and based on agreements alone, the majority seem to support siege as is. Sounds like to me the only ones that are advocating for nerfs to siege are ones who are unhappy that there is counterplay to their farming of pugs.
11 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread
Siege is, and should be, a viable countermeasure in the siege-centric open world PVP mode.
If you still want 1vX/group fights, (instead of the true small-scale of 4v4v4 in BGs), there is always IC.
There isn't siege there, and there are plenty of obstacles to LoS around.
what is your response to any of the things that I said? about siege hitting 12k through block, about it being too easy to safely siege from atop a keep with no danger? about how people rarely lose their lancers? about how it's a problem in more than just 1vX scenarios? about how it deters from actual pvp combat?
Edited by Alchimiste1 on 24 January 2023 21:021 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread
I don’t think he is. I don’t know you. But I do know 2 others in this thread, and one in particular that is always asking for nerfs whenever something doesn’t allow them to kill others and yet, be killed themselves. Whatever they can do to win, they will do. They have a hard time losing. But siege is a part of this game. And it’s a part of the game that many players enjoy. And it is very helpful in taking down a tank or defending against enemies.
I’ve read through this entire thread and based on agreements alone, the majority seem to support siege as is. Sounds like to me the only ones that are advocating for nerfs to siege are ones who are unhappy that there is counterplay to their farming of pugs.
who ?
No, people are arguing for balance, and the chance for having good combat related pvp. Nothing would stop the people from getting off their siege if they felt a 20% nerf was too much, and joining their comrades to fight the very same players they were trying to siege. All they would have to do is not be 40k health pure tank builds.
A 20% nerf to cold-fire and lancers should be reasonable. Along with the bug fixes. Even with a 20% nerf they will still be good tools.
1 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread
Siege is, and should be, a viable countermeasure in the siege-centric open world PVP mode.
If you still want 1vX/group fights, (instead of the true small-scale of 4v4v4 in BGs), there is always IC.
There isn't siege there, and there are plenty of obstacles to LoS around.
what is your response to any of the things that I said? about siege hitting 12k through block, about it being too easy to safely siege from atop a keep with no danger? about how people rarely lose their lancers? about how it's a problem in more than just 1vX scenarios? about how it deters from actual pvp combat?
I saw your video. I saw that you, alone, on a build with less than 30k health, without a healer, and starting from a 50% mag pool with only your magica-based burst heal and one HoT (a ticking vigor) were pretty reasonably able to outheal that coldfire. Coldfire isn't exactly typical siege though, it's a rare(ish) drop, like lancers, and there should be extra benefits for using it over the much more easily acquired fire ballista.
I would also note that we don't know what kind of buff sets that person with the coldfire was wearing (elfbane?) but I could possibly get behind an argument that siege shouldn't be affected by your sets, and that the initial hit (but not the subsequent burning ticks) should be affected by block mitigation. I could also possibly endorse increasing the effectiveness of seige shield.
People are cautious with their lancers because they're precious. But I've burned, and had burned, numerous ones.Edited by acastanza_ESO on 24 January 2023 21:124 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »practically every time I have ever played with friends and we are doing well, at some point in the night the alliance will start to siege us even when they outnumber us heavily, in fact they tend to cover towers with so much siege that there is less space covered without siege than with.
But don't take my word for it, check out twitch and ask the some of the well known solo and small scale players.
What exactly is the problem with players defending their keep using siege weapons even though they outnumber the attackers?
No one is contractually obligated to come off the walls and fight...
In fact, as long as the attackers keep feeding themselves into defensive siege, there's really no reason to. Source: As long as my EP fellows keep running up "Hamburger Hill" to Alessia, AD is gonna keep turning us into hamburger. Eventually we pull back to the bridge, set up our own siege, and then AD feeds into us for a while trying to get to Sejanus.
A 20% damage nerf ain't gonna help solo/smallscale players who keep feeding themselves into heavily defended positions.
(Most of the successful small scale groups I see near Alessia are using the bridge area for line of sight and to break up larger, disorganized groups. They don't attack siege-fortified positions, but rather pick off overextended players from the edges of the fighting. That's smart small group tactics that don't get them turned into hamburger.)
Just to be clear, I don't have a problem getting zerged. If you play solo or small scale you just have to accept that sometimes you are just going to get runover by a large zerg. My comments were only in response to someone that was trying to paint a narrative that isn't true. But that is entirely beside the point.
I am saying that regardless of what type of pvp you are doing (un organized zerg vs zerg included) Siege is currently much overperforming and needs about a 20% nerf and for the bugs that allow tics to hit unmitigated through block and for them to hit through roll dodge to be fixed. The damage nerf is because it is ticing for nearly 12k which is quite frankly absurd. And because it is far too easy to just completely defend with siege from keep walls without any risk reward.
I've been looking and I'm not entirely certain what the intended behavior is for siege re: blocking and dodge. I can't find it in the patch notes, and I see past bug reports from players where they thought it being blockable was the bug. So I'm not sure there.
If it's a bug, then sure, fix it.
"And because it is far too easy to just completely defend with siege from keep walls without any risk reward."
There we go complaining about tactics again. If the enemy hangs out in range of the siege, of course there's not a lot of incentive to chase and every incentive to sit back, siege, and make sure you get that sweet D-tick.
This is an AvAvA war zone focused on objective control. The primary rewards in Cyrodiil don't come from "good fights." They come from defending and capturing objectives. Is it really any wonder that PUGs and zergs focus on activities like PVDoor and Keep defense that maximize their reward and minimize risk?5 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread
Siege is, and should be, a viable countermeasure in the siege-centric open world PVP mode.
If you still want 1vX/group fights, (instead of the true small-scale of 4v4v4 in BGs), there is always IC.
There isn't siege there, and there are plenty of obstacles to LoS around.
what is your response to any of the things that I said? about siege hitting 12k through block, about it being too easy to safely siege from atop a keep with no danger? about how people rarely lose their lancers? about how it's a problem in more than just 1vX scenarios? about how it deters from actual pvp combat?
I saw your video. I saw that you, alone, on a build with less than 30k health, without a healer, and starting from a 50% mag pool with only your magica-based burst heal and one HoT (a ticking vigor) were pretty reasonably able to outheal that coldfire. Coldfire isn't exactly typical siege though, it's a rare(ish) drop, like lancers, and there should be extra benefits for using it over the much more easily acquired fire ballista.
I would also note that we don't know what kind of buff sets that person with the coldfire was wearing (elfbane?) but I could possibly get behind an argument that siege shouldn't be affected by your sets, and that the initial hit (but not the subsequent burning ticks) should be affected by block mitigation. I could also possibly endorse increasing the effectiveness of seige shield.
People are cautious with their lancers because they're precious. But I've burned, and had burned, numerous ones.
elf bane doesn't increase the damage of the siege tic, still taking 11-12k. I was bully buffed on the class with arguably the best burst heal in the game, wearing maras balm too, and my health was still being chunked. A stamsorc could have easily died to that. Me having less than 30k is irrelevant, that doesn't affect how much damage siege tics will do to me. Blocking not working against siege is just a bug that should be fixed.
Yes people are careful with their lancers so careful that the second a keep front door goes down it gets backed up. Game needs better mechanics for that.Edited by Alchimiste1 on 24 January 2023 21:180 -
Elendir2am✭✭✭✭You are asking for nerf of Lancer. So, please. Add also video, where you get hit by lancer and heal your self and are completely fine. It would be fine evidence. Lancers can kill only super squishy players or somebody, already injured and they are only good for shooting at players.
From other side. I am rookie PvP, started seriously in september of last year. I spent only 10 hours playing in small scale during last 2 month (we have different time of playing). Yet when we play, we are spending time by hitting and wiping ball-group as our prime target. I dont know how many time we wipe some ball-group which farmed zerg, but 3 time we wiped ball-group only our 4 small scale presented, me total noob with only few experience with PvP (I am end game PvEer). So if you think, how good players you are, when you fight some totally disorganised randomers..... It dont impress me much.PvP - Recruit.
PvE - Dragon food
RPG - A guy who thought, that he can defeat daedric prince, yet guards still chase him off when he accidentally touches some object during daily writs.3 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭Elendir2am wrote: »You are asking for nerf of Lancer. So, please. Add also video, where you get hit by lancer and heal your self and are completely fine. It would be fine evidence. Lancers can kill only super squishy players or somebody, already injured and they are only good for shooting at players.
From other side. I am rookie PvP, started seriously in september of last year. I spent only 10 hours playing in small scale during last 2 month (we have different time of playing). Yet when we play, we are spending time by hitting and wiping ball-group as our prime target. I dont know how many time we wipe some ball-group which farmed zerg, but 3 time we wiped ball-group only our 4 small scale presented, me total noob with only few experience with PvP (I am end game PvEer). So if you think, how good players you are, when you fight some totally disorganised randomers..... It don't impress me much.
where do you guys get all these assumptions that I and others are trying to prove anything to you? I could care less whether you are impressed by some fight I had. You just admitted you were a new pvper. I want you to take the time to calmy accept that maybe just maybe people who are not new to pvp. Who have been pvping for years. Factor me out of the equation and realize that there are very good well known pvp players that also have stated they agree that siege is currently too strong. And then after that just consider the possibility that they might be right.2 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread
Siege is, and should be, a viable countermeasure in the siege-centric open world PVP mode.
If you still want 1vX/group fights, (instead of the true small-scale of 4v4v4 in BGs), there is always IC.
There isn't siege there, and there are plenty of obstacles to LoS around.
what is your response to any of the things that I said? about siege hitting 12k through block, about it being too easy to safely siege from atop a keep with no danger? about how people rarely lose their lancers? about how it's a problem in more than just 1vX scenarios? about how it deters from actual pvp combat?
12k through block? That's OP without any telegraph or warning beforehand
The whole purpose of building a castle/tower is to shoot down at the attackers with ease and reduced risk
People are more careful with lancers due to the rarity+effective combo - I agree - what's the solution?
Yes if the enemy uses more siege than you, it's a problem - that is also solvable
Anti personnel siege sounds like its working as intended if it denies your enemy safe ground to fight on
Why subject yourself to siege when two other PvP modes exist without it? If your opponents decide to siege from safety instead of directly engaging you, take it as a compliment to your OP skills and move on since they won't fight on your terms. Nerf siege and they will keep shooting it, possibly in greater numbers due to reduced effectiveness.
It's a warzone. I respect 1v1s etc when I see them but you can't have the expectation everyone is there for the same reason as you. Taunt your enemy a second time for resorting to artillery to defeat you, but asking for artillery to be weak so you can live makes you look bad. Maybe the siegemasters have taunted you for getting wiped. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 6 February 2023 19:10Fear is the Mindkiller9 -
Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »Four_Fingers wrote: »If you can't take out helpless players that plop down field siege, I don't know what to say.
Now if you ignore them and stand in red of course you die.
except for the fact that the people that set down lancers never do it open field but on top of keep walls enemy players can't reach. Similar case for coldfire. Also, a lot of the people who siege are in 40k health pure tank builds. I don't think you should be able to repair special siege like lancers and coldfire.
OP was talking about open field siege against small scale.In a way it is even being used to bypass any form of more “traditional” (open field/On the ground fights) PvP.1 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread
Siege is, and should be, a viable countermeasure in the siege-centric open world PVP mode.
If you still want 1vX/group fights, (instead of the true small-scale of 4v4v4 in BGs), there is always IC.
There isn't siege there, and there are plenty of obstacles to LoS around.
what is your response to any of the things that I said? about siege hitting 12k through block, about it being too easy to safely siege from atop a keep with no danger? about how people rarely lose their lancers? about how it's a problem in more than just 1vX scenarios? about how it deters from actual pvp combat?
12k through block? That's OP without any telegraph or warning beforehand
The whole purpose of building a castle/tower is to shoot down at the attackers with ease and reduced risk
People are more careful with lancers due to the rarity+effective combo - I agree - what's the solution?
Yes if the enemy uses more siege than you, it's a problem - that is also solvable
Anti personnel siege sounds like its working as intended if it denies your enemy safe ground to fight on
Why subject yourself to siege when two other PvP modes exist without it? If your opponents decide to siege from safety instead of directly engaging you, take it as a compliment to your OP skills and move on since they won't fight on your terms. Nerf siege and they will keep shooting it, possibly in greater numbers due to reduced effectiveness.
It's a warzone. I respect 1v1s etc when I see them but you can't have the expectation everyone is there for the same reason as you. Taunt your enemy a second time for resorting to artillery to defeat you, but asking for artillery to be weak so you can live makes you look bad. Maybe the siegemasters have taunted you for getting wiped. [snip]
When have I said I was arguing from a 1v1 or solo perspective. I don't get it. Where are all these assumptions coming from?
If you want to be good at solo play and to do it consistently without losing your mind you have to accept that there is a greater chance of you dying that living in most scenarios. That is not a problem. It doesn't mean that you can't call out overperforming mechanics if you have a reasonable argument.
For the record I have done, solo, small scale, large scale, zerg type pvp. I think siege does too much in practically all those scenarios. ball groups are the best equipped to deal with siege. Also, yes siege is telegraphed. it's easy to avoid when there is one, significantly harder when there is more.
Regardless of what some of you may think, I don't type these out because of my ego, or to prove anything to any of you. I only do so because I believe this change will provide a better pvp experience. This will be my last reply on this thread. I think I've presented enough evidence and food for thought that some devs with an unbias opinion can utilize.
You all have a good day.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 6 February 2023 19:110 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »NordSwordnBoard wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »
bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights
BG's are always an option!
you are completely missing the point of the entire thread
Siege is, and should be, a viable countermeasure in the siege-centric open world PVP mode.
If you still want 1vX/group fights, (instead of the true small-scale of 4v4v4 in BGs), there is always IC.
There isn't siege there, and there are plenty of obstacles to LoS around.
what is your response to any of the things that I said? about siege hitting 12k through block, about it being too easy to safely siege from atop a keep with no danger? about how people rarely lose their lancers? about how it's a problem in more than just 1vX scenarios? about how it deters from actual pvp combat?
12k through block? That's OP without any telegraph or warning beforehand
The whole purpose of building a castle/tower is to shoot down at the attackers with ease and reduced risk
People are more careful with lancers due to the rarity+effective combo - I agree - what's the solution?
Yes if the enemy uses more siege than you, it's a problem - that is also solvable
Anti personnel siege sounds like its working as intended if it denies your enemy safe ground to fight on
Why subject yourself to siege when two other PvP modes exist without it? If your opponents decide to siege from safety instead of directly engaging you, take it as a compliment to your OP skills and move on since they won't fight on your terms. Nerf siege and they will keep shooting it, possibly in greater numbers due to reduced effectiveness.
It's a warzone. I respect 1v1s etc when I see them but you can't have the expectation everyone is there for the same reason as you. Taunt your enemy a second time for resorting to artillery to defeat you, but asking for artillery to be weak so you can live makes you look bad. Maybe the siegemasters have taunted you for getting wiped. [snip]
When have I said I was arguing from a 1v1 or solo perspective. I don't get it. Where are all these assumptions coming from?
If you want to be good at solo play and to do it consistently without losing your mind you have to accept that there is a greater chance of you dying that living in most scenarios. That is not a problem. It doesn't mean that you can't call out overperforming mechanics if you have a reasonable argument.
For the record I have done, solo, small scale, large scale, zerg type pvp. I think siege does too much in practically all those scenarios. ball groups are the best equipped to deal with siege. Also, yes siege is telegraphed. it's easy to avoid when there is one, significantly harder when there is more.
Regardless of what some of you may think, I don't type these out because of my ego, or to prove anything to any of you. I only do so because I believe this change will provide a better pvp experience. This will be my last reply on this thread. I think I've presented enough evidence and food for thought that some devs with an unbias opinion can utilize.
You all have a good day.
I never accused you of arguing from a 1v1 or solo perspective.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 6 February 2023 19:12Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be
I'll summarize my points.- was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
- siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
- lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
- Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
- Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
- coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.
[snip] With dodge rolls you would have gotten 0 damage, [snip]
the point of this video is to show the amount of damage it does. now imagine a few of these on you whilst you are already getting zerged down
i have 5k hours of cyrodiil pvp in the non cp campaign behind me, not the easy mode you are playing. anyone who has a problem with siege weapons is the problem himself and is not aware of his environment. if you are getting zerged, siege weapons are not the deciding factor either, that is the definition of get zerged.
[edited to remove quote]
then why everytime i get zerged are siege weapons the top damage done to me by an astronomical amount, way ahed of players skills? Despite what you say, your comment just indicates that you run in zergs so obviously youre noy going to encounter the siege problem the way solo, smallscalers do lmao.
this should be pretty easy to answer, to avoid the damage from a siege weapon you have to press another button than block4 -
nuttytom✭✭✭✭also you guys need to realise that "tanks" in pvp are a completely separate issue and cant be used as an excuse for this siege problem.
but if you wanna talk about tanks...... tanks LITERALLY PLACE SIEGE THEMSELVES and are unkillable whilst hitting people with 12k+ ticks of damage.
oh and they also do this behind a zerg.Edited by nuttytom on 26 January 2023 02:030 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭also you guys need to realise that "tanks" in pvp are a completely separate issue and cant be used as an excuse for this siege problem.
but if you wanna talk about tanks...... tanks LITERALLY PLACE SIEGE THEMSELVES and are unkillable whilst hitting people with 12k+ ticks of damage.
oh and they also do this behind a zerg.
Hope they brought a lot of repair kits, because I can chain burn them for free.1 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭@nuttytom howdy howdy howdy... I'm back. Lot of "arcanist" threads lately I almost couldn't find this thread.
So you may remember I asked you to post a video of your siege problem because basically I just didn't believe it was as egregious or as frequent as you were saying. No offense-- I've just been on these forums for a long time and lately I've been of the mind that I just want to see clips. Everybody has differing opinions, platforms, experiences, and sometimes even motives. A good clip is often times much more objective and accurate than a speech.
You decided not to I guess... No big deal. But for the record no that other guy's clip isn't sufficient. His clip is only like 11 seconds long and is showing a possible bug with siege and blocking. It doesn't speak to your issue of the prevalence of siege one bit. In fact, if memory serves, you both used to have your own separate topics on the matter and they only got combined because some moderators wrongly assumed you were talking about the same thing.
But so... Guess what? I took a clip. I didn't set out to take a "siege" clip... But during the fight I became aware that this was perhaps a good example of what we're talking about. And I'd like to show you what things look like from my perspective.
SO... In this clip you see me running solo alongside a yellow zerg. Since I wasn't a part of the zerg technically I can't say what they were thinking or trying to do. Perhaps they never sieged the door/wall because of all the counter-siege. Or perhaps they were just trying to run a little AP farm (spoiler alert: it didn't work out lol,) I don't know and can't speak to that.
But what this clip shows pretty well, in my opinion, is me running around with relative ease avoiding siege. Occasionally I get hit... I heal through it without issue. You can see coldfires and lancers are both in the clip. Now... I do die once, and you will see that a fire lancer is in the recap. But you will see that the ACTUAL cause of my death was a nice Colossus that got dropped on me, and me accidentally rolling instead of blocking. This was a well organized attack, I made a mistake, and they got me. Well played to them. I shouldn't have been where I was.
So... That's it. I just wanted you to see what I was talking about. And I still hope you decide to show me what you are talking about. Sorry I can't just embed the video from YouTube or something convenient for you-- I'm not good enough to stream, and have no desire to make a YouTube channel.
https://www.xboxclips.com/OBJ noob/c05556e1-4309-464d-ad2b-56f9d438a9ee/embed
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TheMightyRevan✭✭✭@nuttytom howdy howdy howdy... I'm back. Lot of "arcanist" threads lately I almost couldn't find this thread.
So you may remember I asked you to post a video of your siege problem because basically I just didn't believe it was as egregious or as frequent as you were saying. No offense-- I've just been on these forums for a long time and lately I've been of the mind that I just want to see clips. Everybody has differing opinions, platforms, experiences, and sometimes even motives. A good clip is often times much more objective and accurate than a speech.
You decided not to I guess... No big deal. But for the record no that other guy's clip isn't sufficient. His clip is only like 11 seconds long and is showing a possible bug with siege and blocking. It doesn't speak to your issue of the prevalence of siege one bit. In fact, if memory serves, you both used to have your own separate topics on the matter and they only got combined because some moderators wrongly assumed you were talking about the same thing.
But so... Guess what? I took a clip. I didn't set out to take a "siege" clip... But during the fight I became aware that this was perhaps a good example of what we're talking about. And I'd like to show you what things look like from my perspective.
SO... In this clip you see me running solo alongside a yellow zerg. Since I wasn't a part of the zerg technically I can't say what they were thinking or trying to do. Perhaps they never sieged the door/wall because of all the counter-siege. Or perhaps they were just trying to run a little AP farm (spoiler alert: it didn't work out lol,) I don't know and can't speak to that.
But what this clip shows pretty well, in my opinion, is me running around with relative ease avoiding siege. Occasionally I get hit... I heal through it without issue. You can see coldfires and lancers are both in the clip. Now... I do die once, and you will see that a fire lancer is in the recap. But you will see that the ACTUAL cause of my death was a nice Colossus that got dropped on me, and me accidentally rolling instead of blocking. This was a well organized attack, I made a mistake, and they got me. Well played to them. I shouldn't have been where I was.
So... That's it. I just wanted you to see what I was talking about. And I still hope you decide to show me what you are talking about. Sorry I can't just embed the video from YouTube or something convenient for you-- I'm not good enough to stream, and have no desire to make a YouTube channel.
https://www.xboxclips.com/OBJ noob/c05556e1-4309-464d-ad2b-56f9d438a9ee/embed
you say you werent part of the zerg, but running alongside a zerg means being part of the zerg. that is literally the definition of being in a zerg. also here is the problem, this video doesnt show anything, because you literally didnt get attacked by any player, except siege. there is noone on you there. and still you died. So actually it just outright proves our point. Because if you check the recap, you took more damage from the lancer than anything else. And THAT is the whole point. siege does more than anything else in cyrodiil. its plain obvious. So now imagine getting hit by that 10k lancer (or maybe even more hits if youre unlucky) while there is 5 players on you. thats when the problems begin.
Frankly this clip shows how most people in this thread dont seem to understand our talking point. Siege is fine as long as there is literally nothing else happening on the screen, and even then you can die to it way too easy.4 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think you need to look more closely. I got pulled into a Colossus by a dark convergence and died because I chose to dodge instead of block. The character that did it (a red I believe,) was standing right next to me... I had just attacked him. There was also a yellow there who was doing the right thing while I was doing the wrong thing and he survived.
I'm not claiming to be some awesome Xer or to be playing solo in this clip-- what I mean when I say I wasn't TECHNICALLY part of the zerg is that I wasn't in group or party with any of them and therefore wasn't privy to their communications, callouts, or intentions.
I believe I explained all that. And showed all that.
The real difference between me and... Some people... Is that when I die, sometimes, I know it was my fault.Edited by OBJnoob on 27 January 2023 00:054 -
Elendir2am✭✭✭✭TheMightyRevan wrote: »you say you werent part of the zerg, but running alongside a zerg means being part of the zerg. that is literally the definition of being in a zerg. also here is the problem, this video doesnt show anything, because you literally didnt get attacked by any player, except siege. there is noone on you there. and still you died. So actually it just outright proves our point. Because if you check the recap, you took more damage from the lancer than anything else. And THAT is the whole point. siege does more than anything else in cyrodiil. its plain obvious. So now imagine getting hit by that 10k lancer (or maybe even more hits if youre unlucky) while there is 5 players on you. thats when the problems begin.
Frankly this clip shows how most people in this thread dont seem to understand our talking point. Siege is fine as long as there is literally nothing else happening on the screen, and even then you can die to it way too easy.
He was killed with Colossus, yet he wasn't attacked by any player. LOLPvP - Recruit.
PvE - Dragon food
RPG - A guy who thought, that he can defeat daedric prince, yet guards still chase him off when he accidentally touches some object during daily writs.6 -
TheMightyRevan✭✭✭I think you need to look more closely. I got pulled into a Colossus by a dark convergence and died because I chose to dodge instead of block. The character that did it (a red I believe,) was standing right next to me... I had just attacked him. There was also a yellow there who was doing the right thing while I was doing the wrong thing and he survived.
I'm not claiming to be some awesome Xer or to be playing solo in this clip-- what I mean when I say I wasn't TECHNICALLY part of the zerg is that I wasn't in group or party with any of them and therefore wasn't privy to their communications, callouts, or intentions.
I believe I explained all that. And showed all that.
The real difference between me and... Some people... Is that when I die, sometimes, I know it was my fault.
Again, you dont have to be in a group to be part of the zerg. Just standing in them + attacking the same target is enough.
Just look at the numbers, it was more than 10k from siege and only 6.8k from the colossus, hence you die to siege, i mean... thats just simple numbers. Plus you need to keep in mind that the ingame recap isnt perfect it only shows 5 things, but if you look closely on the clip you can see that you get hit by more than 2 lancer hits. So the lancer probably did in actuality more like double the dmg. Simple math.
So again it proves my point, you get attacked by a player and sieged at the same time = certain death, one stun is enough0 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭I still think you're not seeing the clip right. But it's really not important. My reason for taking the clip has served it's purpose. If THIS is the problem you're having then I don't agree that it is a problem.
I was doing just fine until I got kill hungry, made myself a target right Infront of the front door, and got smacked by a coordinated attack. My initial reaction to the attack was also wrong-- and that is why I died. Siege is NOT too strong. I need to L2P
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TheMightyRevan✭✭✭I still think you're not seeing the clip right. But it's really not important. My reason for taking the clip has served it's purpose. If THIS is the problem you're having then I don't agree that it is a problem.
I was doing just fine until I got kill hungry, made myself a target right Infront of the front door, and got smacked by a coordinated attack. My initial reaction to the attack was also wrong-- and that is why I died. Siege is NOT too strong. I need to L2P
You died to the siege, the numbers prove it. I dont understand how you can argue about it. Just think about the problem of siege balancing, when a single siege does more damage, than colossus, one of the most expensive (and strongest) ults in the game. And the siege you can shoot every 5 secs.2 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭I showed you a clip, lol. How can you be so wrong about so much? There's a G D video! Look at the recap again. The boneyard/DC/BB/Colossus combo did more damage than the siege. I'm not looking at the video right now but, if memory serves, the lancer shots are like 5+6k the two big necro hits are like 9+5k.
The lancer hits probably would've been even less if I wasn't stage 3 vamp and effected by major vulnerability.
But you can have your interpretation. I think you're flat wrong-- but it doesn't matter. The video turned out to be perfect. Because you look at it and say "YES, that's what we're talking about, siege needs a nerf!" Unfortunately I disagree and always will.5 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Running next to a Zerg! Lol the dogma is so great about being near a lot of people in a game where that mode is literally the point; it's comical.
Nothing wrong with doing that, but it's not what I really what I thought people were talking about. I thought we were talking being massively outnumbered yet enemies chose to siege rather than fight?1