nerf siege

MEBengalsFan2001

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

buff siege. and make ballistas and catapults mobile.

New Mount called Siege O'Matic

It comes equipped with all your sieging needs. When near a door it acts a battering ram. Player is able to swap between any type of ballista of their choosing and catapult of their choosing before entering Cyrodiil.

In addition, player cannot be dismount when using this mount. Mount comes equipped with siege shield and best of all player gets all defensive buff when on the mount.

Crown cost of mount 50K. Just because its an all in one mount.

SpacemanSpiff1

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

buff siege. and make ballistas and catapults mobile.

New Mount called Siege O'Matic

It comes equipped with all your sieging needs. When near a door it acts a battering ram. Player is able to swap between any type of ballista of their choosing and catapult of their choosing before entering Cyrodiil.

In addition, player cannot be dismount when using this mount. Mount comes equipped with siege shield and best of all player gets all defensive buff when on the mount.

Crown cost of mount 50K. Just because its an all in one mount.

some pretty good ideas there. maybe make it some sort of dwemer walker vehicle

EmEm_Oh

We need new siege weapons. Like a 12-person ram.

Coldfire oils.

Revise caltrops so they are more deadly and/or have the option to morph into a 3rd tree that are laced with poison.

CGPsaint

nuttytom wrote: »

literally not the reason for complaining but ok. If you cant see that siege is a problem with the damage it does to players then i dont know what to tell you. Maybe you should try fighting outnumbered and see how you manage the 10+ sieges on you at all times whereas the players literally use none of their own skills to fight you. Such fun and skilled gameplay there.

Okay, so you can hold your own when you're outnumbered, unless the enemy uses siege? It seems to me that the enemy is playing smarter by using the tools at their disposal to try and turn the tide of the battle. Siege damage is fine where it's at and you (and or other people) just need to learn how to counter siege better. Stay away from keeps/outposts while you're trying to farm zerglings, and or overrun or move away from siege if enemies are using them in open fields.

Four_Fingers

If you can't take out helpless players that plop down field siege, I don't know what to say.
Now if you ignore them and stand in red of course you die.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

Alchimiste1

Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be

I'll summarize my points.

1. was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
2. siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
3. lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
4. Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
5. Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
6. coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.

Alchimiste1

Four_Fingers wrote: »

If you can't take out helpless players that plop down field siege, I don't know what to say.
Now if you ignore them and stand in red of course you die.

except for the fact that the people that set down lancers never do it open field but on top of keep walls enemy players can't reach. Similar case for coldfire. Also, a lot of the people who siege are in 40k health pure tank builds. I don't think you should be able to repair special siege like lancers and coldfire.

Alchimiste1

OBJnoob wrote: »

@nuttytom Show a video where there is more siege being shot at you than there are of you. In other words-- if your group is 5 strong I want to see 6 siege being shot at you. If you are 12 strong I want to see 13 siege being shot at you. If you're solo I want to see at least 2 siege being shot at you.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

you can be 1 person and have like 4+ siege being shot at you lol. I'm sure many solo and small scale players can agree

Jaraal

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.

I quit using lancers after I lost so many because ZOS' funky anti-cheat code kicked me multiple times to the log in screen for "sending too many messages" to the server. Multiple ticks from multiple hits on multiple players getting stacked up by lag and then shot to the server in a wad gets you booted (while your valuable siege stays behind to rot). And not once has ZOS offered to reimburse equipment lost through no fault of my own. So I just use siege that I don't have to jump through hoops to acquire, and then lose for no valid reason.

nuttytom

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be

I'll summarize my points.

1. was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
2. siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
3. lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
4. Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
5. Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
6. coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.

Alchimiste spitting facts, if this vid isnt proof enough for all of you then i dont know what to do.

OBJnoob

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

@nuttytom Show a video where there is more siege being shot at you than there are of you. In other words-- if your group is 5 strong I want to see 6 siege being shot at you. If you are 12 strong I want to see 13 siege being shot at you. If you're solo I want to see at least 2 siege being shot at you.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

you can be 1 person and have like 4+ siege being shot at you lol. I'm sure many solo and small scale players can agree

Yes you can. You can also be solo as part of a bigger fight and wrongly assume you're being focused.

Unfortunately no, it doesn't seem like most solo and small scalers agree. It seems like most people here don't really agree.

nuttytom wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be

I'll summarize my points.

1. was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
2. siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
3. lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
4. Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
5. Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
6. coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.

Alchimiste spitting facts, if this vid isnt proof enough for all of you then i dont know what to do.

The video you said you'd have no problem getting is what you can do.

Alchimiste1

@OBJnoob practically every time I have ever played with friends and we are doing well, at some point in the night the alliance will start to siege us even when they outnumber us heavily, in fact they tend to cover towers with so much siege that there is less space covered without siege than with.

But don't take my word for it, check out twitch and ask the some of the well known solo and small scale players.

TechMaybeHic

Usually I only see siege used in one player when it's a troll tank or something but if you wind up with just enough players in a group to try to take a keep, you often will get a bigger response then you have people as the game on PCNA at least, has gotten to be very faction stack heavy. You'll get more than your numbers show up outside to fight and can do ok depending on who you are fighting, but then there also will be enough on the wall to plaster the entire ground in front of the keep. Usually your best bet is to fall back out of siege range to get them to come down but you'll get zerged down anyway, so I really don't focus on the siege being so used there other than it really hurts

Probably not really a siege issue though; but more a game issue that stacking is so efficient and players often suggest something that would make that worse by complaining about PvDoor which is often used to make stacks make a choice of either split off to go defend while some push, or send the bulk of their stack to respond and pull them off the overwhelming offensive.

I think people really should just consider running a purge again as many stopped when DOTs got nerfed and Plague break became a thing. Other than that; outnumbered is outnumbered. Need to make decisions to avoid it when you can and just accept it happens

maxjapank

Siege is fine. You can join bgs if you don’t like it.

nuttytom

maxjapank wrote: »

Siege is fine. You can join bgs if you don’t like it.

thanks for your great input. maybe some people find outnumbered pvp in cyrodiil more fun? your logic can be used in every aspect of the game lmao

nuttytom

OBJnoob wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

@nuttytom Show a video where there is more siege being shot at you than there are of you. In other words-- if your group is 5 strong I want to see 6 siege being shot at you. If you are 12 strong I want to see 13 siege being shot at you. If you're solo I want to see at least 2 siege being shot at you.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

you can be 1 person and have like 4+ siege being shot at you lol. I'm sure many solo and small scale players can agree

Yes you can. You can also be solo as part of a bigger fight and wrongly assume you're being focused.

Unfortunately no, it doesn't seem like most solo and small scalers agree. It seems like most people here don't really agree.

nuttytom wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be

I'll summarize my points.

1. was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
2. siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
3. lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
4. Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
5. Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
6. coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.

Alchimiste spitting facts, if this vid isnt proof enough for all of you then i dont know what to do.

The video you said you'd have no problem getting is what you can do.

most people here dont agree because they arent solo or smallscalers lol. And is the video alchimiste posted not enough for you to see that siege does too much damage to players?

Luede

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be

I'll summarize my points.

1. was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
2. siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
3. lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
4. Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
5. Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
6. coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.

[snip] With dodge rolls you would have gotten 0 damage, [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Alchimiste1

Luede wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be

I'll summarize my points.

1. was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
2. siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
3. lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
4. Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
5. Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
6. coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.

[snip] With dodge rolls you would have gotten 0 damage, [snip]

its bugged [snip]. I took the damage on purpose to show how strong it hit for

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

nuttytom

Luede wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be

I'll summarize my points.

1. was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
2. siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
3. lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
4. Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
5. Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
6. coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.

[snip] With dodge rolls you would have gotten 0 damage, [snip]

the point of this video is to show the amount of damage it does. now imagine a few of these on you whilst you are already getting zerged down

[edited to remove quote]

Alchimiste1

this thread is really showing how people would prefer to play siege wars than engage in any form of actual combat

Luede

nuttytom wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be

I'll summarize my points.

1. was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
2. siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
3. lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
4. Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
5. Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
6. coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.

[snip] With dodge rolls you would have gotten 0 damage, [snip]

the point of this video is to show the amount of damage it does. now imagine a few of these on you whilst you are already getting zerged down

i have 5k hours of cyrodiil pvp in the non cp campaign behind me, not the easy mode you are playing. anyone who has a problem with siege weapons is the problem himself and is not aware of his environment. if you are getting zerged, siege weapons are not the deciding factor either, that is the definition of get zerged.

[edited to remove quote]

nuttytom

Luede wrote: »

nuttytom wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Didn't realize there was already a thread about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvhF2dFu_c&feature=youtu.be

I'll summarize my points.

1. was taking nearly 12k tics from 1 coldfire through block
2. siege is bugged and should be fixed to calculated block mitigation and roll dodge to avoid tics
3. lancers are overtuned. Yes they are hard to get initially but nobody ever loses them because they get stored away the moment anything breaks through the keep wall.
4. Its far too easy to defend a keep with just sieges
5. Ball groups are actually the best equipped to deal with siege damage.
6. coldfire and lancers should do like 20% less damage.

[snip] With dodge rolls you would have gotten 0 damage, [snip]

the point of this video is to show the amount of damage it does. now imagine a few of these on you whilst you are already getting zerged down

i have 5k hours of cyrodiil pvp in the non cp campaign behind me, not the easy mode you are playing. anyone who has a problem with siege weapons is the problem himself and is not aware of his environment. if you are getting zerged, siege weapons are not the deciding factor either, that is the definition of get zerged.

[edited to remove quote]

then why everytime i get zerged are siege weapons the top damage done to me by an astronomical amount, way ahed of players skills? Despite what you say, your comment just indicates that you run in zergs so obviously youre noy going to encounter the siege problem the way solo, smallscalers do lmao.

VaranisArano

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

practically every time I have ever played with friends and we are doing well, at some point in the night the alliance will start to siege us even when they outnumber us heavily, in fact they tend to cover towers with so much siege that there is less space covered without siege than with.

But don't take my word for it, check out twitch and ask the some of the well known solo and small scale players.

What exactly is the problem with players defending their keep using siege weapons even though they outnumber the attackers?

No one is contractually obligated to come off the walls and fight...

In fact, as long as the attackers keep feeding themselves into defensive siege, there's really no reason to. Source: As long as my EP fellows keep running up "Hamburger Hill" to Alessia, AD is gonna keep turning us into hamburger. Eventually we pull back to the bridge, set up our own siege, and then AD feeds into us for a while trying to get to Sejanus.

A 20% damage nerf ain't gonna help solo/smallscale players who keep feeding themselves into heavily defended positions.

(Most of the successful small scale groups I see near Alessia are using the bridge area for line of sight and to break up larger, disorganized groups. They don't attack siege-fortified positions, but rather pick off overextended players from the edges of the fighting. That's smart small group tactics that don't get them turned into hamburger.)

nuttytom

VaranisArano wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

practically every time I have ever played with friends and we are doing well, at some point in the night the alliance will start to siege us even when they outnumber us heavily, in fact they tend to cover towers with so much siege that there is less space covered without siege than with.

But don't take my word for it, check out twitch and ask the some of the well known solo and small scale players.

What exactly is the problem with players defending their keep using siege weapons even though they outnumber the attackers?

No one is contractually obligated to come off the walls and fight...

In fact, as long as the attackers keep feeding themselves into defensive siege, there's really no reason to. Source: As long as my EP fellows keep running up "Hamburger Hill" to Alessia, AD is gonna keep turning us into hamburger. Eventually we pull back to the bridge, set up our own siege, and then AD feeds into us for a while trying to get to Sejanus.

A 20% damage nerf ain't gonna help solo/smallscale players who keep feeding themselves into heavily defended positions.

(Most of the successful small scale groups I see near Alessia are using the bridge area for line of sight and to break up larger, disorganized groups. They don't attack siege-fortified positions, but rather pick off overextended players from the edges of the fighting. That's smart small group tactics that don't get them turned into hamburger.)

the problem is when they place siege on towers or open field, which does happen btw.

also do you not understand that people shoot you with siege from range and from many different angles? People tend to just sit behind their sieges anyway, you will probably have like 3 or 4 players breaking off for you to kill. And then you are still having siege shot at you from many different places. If you move to line of sight then the zerg will just re position their siege every single time, so you basically have constant coldfires and meatbags shooting you all the time.

again you have just made it very clear that you dont solo or smallscale so obviously you are not going to experience the op siege shooting you, so why are you even talking about it?

Maybe try and do some of the fights im talking about and get some experience on the topic and report back after.

TheMightyRevan

How can anyone defend siege, when they're still in the old system. Meatbags, oil, scattershot still using the old debuff values, when major protection had 30 % dmg reduction. It is obvious for anyone with any resembling brain capacity that the need a nerf. Just like npc's still doing 30% dmg taken with their puncture. Most ppl here defending siege probably dont even know that, coz they dont care, too many numbers, i guess.

Alchimiste1

VaranisArano wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

practically every time I have ever played with friends and we are doing well, at some point in the night the alliance will start to siege us even when they outnumber us heavily, in fact they tend to cover towers with so much siege that there is less space covered without siege than with.

But don't take my word for it, check out twitch and ask the some of the well known solo and small scale players.

What exactly is the problem with players defending their keep using siege weapons even though they outnumber the attackers?

No one is contractually obligated to come off the walls and fight...

In fact, as long as the attackers keep feeding themselves into defensive siege, there's really no reason to. Source: As long as my EP fellows keep running up "Hamburger Hill" to Alessia, AD is gonna keep turning us into hamburger. Eventually we pull back to the bridge, set up our own siege, and then AD feeds into us for a while trying to get to Sejanus.

A 20% damage nerf ain't gonna help solo/smallscale players who keep feeding themselves into heavily defended positions.

(Most of the successful small scale groups I see near Alessia are using the bridge area for line of sight and to break up larger, disorganized groups. They don't attack siege-fortified positions, but rather pick off overextended players from the edges of the fighting. That's smart small group tactics that don't get them turned into hamburger.)

Just to be clear, I don't have a problem getting zerged. If you play solo or small scale you just have to accept that sometimes you are just going to get runover by a large zerg. My comments were only in response to someone that was trying to paint a narrative that isn't true. But that is entirely beside the point.

I am saying that regardless of what type of pvp you are doing (un organized zerg vs zerg included) Siege is currently much overperforming and needs about a 20% nerf and for the bugs that allow tics to hit unmitigated through block and for them to hit through roll dodge to be fixed. The damage nerf is because it is ticing for nearly 12k which is quite frankly absurd. And because it is far too easy to just completely defend with siege from keep walls without any risk reward.

Cloudrest

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@OBJnoob practically every time I have ever played with friends and we are doing well, at some point in the night the alliance will start to siege us even when they outnumber us heavily, in fact they tend to cover towers with so much siege that there is less space covered without siege than with.

But don't take my word for it, check out twitch and ask the some of the well known solo and small scale players.

Solo/Smallscale has gotten ridiculous. Whenever I 1vX these days in a tower, it's either 15 people sitting on the resource watching me as I wait for them to come inside and them trying to siege me before leaving to go PvDoor something else to avoid PvP, or it's 30 people swarming me whilst I'm being meatbagged and coldfired. Rarely is it anything in-between, and even when it is, I'm STILL being sieged.

If I'm in a keep running the walls and playing LOS, I have 2-3 coldfires and a meatbag on me at all times, guaranteed. It becomes a game of "kite these 10 players thirsting you whilst dodging the big bad siege circles" more than it is actual PvP.

When I smallscaled with Explanicide, Gulmar and Nextuality, the amount of siege on us when we were farming heavily outnumbered in an enemy trikeep was unholy. I'm talking so many meatbags, coldfire ballistas, trebs, etc that we had to be constantly rotating to force the enemy to keep re-positioning them. If we stopped moving for even in instant, we'd die-- and mind you, we already had 20+ players ontop of us that we were having to deal with, too.

Game knowledge has advanced to the point where pugs simply know to cover absolutely everything in siege if they can't beat an opponent-- even if that opponent is just a single player. It's come to a point where siege is used to avoid PvP entirely, or at the very least, bypass having to engage to combat with your build and skills.

acastanza_ESO

Cloudrest wrote: »

we were farming [...] in an enemy trikeep

Well, there's your problem. Maybe don't do that. Many people consider hiding out in trikeeps to be greifing, and will respond accordingly (with overwhelming force). It isn't cool. There are always plenty of active fights on the map.

nuttytom

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Cloudrest wrote: »

we were farming [...] in an enemy trikeep

Well, there's your problem. Maybe don't do that. Many people consider hiding out in trikeeps to be greifing, and will respond accordingly (with overwhelming force). It isn't cool. There are always plenty of active fights on the map.

bro not everyone wants to run around in zerg v zerg fights