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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
nerf siege
-
nuttytom✭✭✭✭You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.0 -
Soraka✭✭✭✭✭You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.
Purge
Also as someone who doesn't know how siege works. Oil doesn't tick 9 times if you got hit once.
Also it seems to hit for 10k a tick on siege. I don't see it hit players that often..source: I just used it. I'm with the other guy. I think a video would back up your claims much better.Edited by Soraka on 7 February 2023 18:443 -
nuttytom✭✭✭✭You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.
Purge
Also as someone who doesn't know how siege works. Oil doesn't tick 9 times if you got hit once.
Also it seems to hit for 10k a tick on siege. I don't see it hit players that often..source: I just used it. I'm with the other guy. I think a video would back up your claims much better.
Yes we use purge, but i have said so many times, we are getting hit by MULTIPLE sieges and cant just spam the cleanse synergy from templar.
And ok yes, maybe i got hit by it 2 or 3 times, but you do know it carries on ticking after you move out of it right? all it takes is one hit and then it is ticking on you over x amount of seconds.
How would my combat metrics show how much damage an oil did to another siege?? Its literally showing the damage on ME. And if you dont see siege hitting that hard on players then you must be playing a different game quite honestly. People in this thread have shown many screenshots of the siege damage they have received.
Okay, what siege did you use on someone then?
Also just a correction: that oil in my metrics is from someone using elfbane, so yes its 9 ticks from getting hit by it once.Edited by nuttytom on 7 February 2023 18:560 -
Soraka✭✭✭✭✭You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.
Purge
Also as someone who doesn't know how siege works. Oil doesn't tick 9 times if you got hit once.
Also it seems to hit for 10k a tick on siege. I don't see it hit players that often..source: I just used it. I'm with the other guy. I think a video would back up your claims much better.
Yes we use purge, but i have said so many times, we are getting hit by MULTIPLE sieges and cant just spam the cleanse synergy from templar.
And ok yes, maybe i got hit by it 2 or 3 times, but you do know it carries on ticking after you move out of it right? all it takes is one hit and then it is ticking on you over x amount of seconds.
How would my combat metrics show how much damage an oil did to another siege?? Its literally showing the damage on ME. And if you dont see siege hitting that hard on players then you must be playing a different game quite honestly. People in this thread have shown many screenshots of the siege damage they have received.
Okay, what siege did you use on someone then?
Also just a correction: that oil in my metrics is from someone using elfbane, so yes its 9 ticks from getting hit by it once.
Ok so they had a build based around buffing siege vs your build that includes + fire damage.
You brought in the 10k per tick statistic not me. I was addressing that. Oil hits for 10k per tick against another siege. Not people...unless perhaps they are taking +fire damage vs someone with +fire damage set.
Again you appear to want to create a thread to dictate that this is what happens to you so it is so for everyone and are not particularly open to discussion or feedback. I don't think that something should be baseline scaled off of your experience being weak to it, plus it being buffed. That's not standardized.
What I'm hearing is under overwhelming circumstances (many players against you hard to move, debuff self and buff siege, many many siege can't get out of them, etc.) you get overwhelmed and die. That sounds kinda...normal?
Instead you are not adequately addressing what is being said, asking questions and being snarky about the answers, and resorting to insults. No point in this discussion.Edited by Soraka on 7 February 2023 19:483 -
nuttytom✭✭✭✭You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.
Purge
Also as someone who doesn't know how siege works. Oil doesn't tick 9 times if you got hit once.
Also it seems to hit for 10k a tick on siege. I don't see it hit players that often..source: I just used it. I'm with the other guy. I think a video would back up your claims much better.
Yes we use purge, but i have said so many times, we are getting hit by MULTIPLE sieges and cant just spam the cleanse synergy from templar.
And ok yes, maybe i got hit by it 2 or 3 times, but you do know it carries on ticking after you move out of it right? all it takes is one hit and then it is ticking on you over x amount of seconds.
How would my combat metrics show how much damage an oil did to another siege?? Its literally showing the damage on ME. And if you dont see siege hitting that hard on players then you must be playing a different game quite honestly. People in this thread have shown many screenshots of the siege damage they have received.
Okay, what siege did you use on someone then?
Also just a correction: that oil in my metrics is from someone using elfbane, so yes its 9 ticks from getting hit by it once.
Ok so they had a build based around buffing siege vs your build that includes + fire damage.
You brought in the 10k per tick statistic not me. I was addressing that. Oil hits for 10k per tick against another siege. Not people...unless perhaps they are taking +fire damage vs someone with +fire damage set.
Again you appear to want to create a thread to dictate that this is what happens to you so it is so for everyone and are not particularly open to discussion or feedback. I don't think that something should be baseline scaled off of your experience being weak to it, plus it being buffed. That's not standardized.
Instead you are not adequately addressing what is being said, asking questions and being snarky about the answers, and resorting to insults. No point in this discussion.
yes but elfbane doesnt change the damage??? siege literally does hit for 10k+ on players, what are you talking about?
Its not just me saying this tho either? Multiple people in this thread agree and there is even another thread about siege damage needing to be toned down.
I have not insulted you once btw. You are simply discrediting everything i am saying even tho the proof is right there in the screenshots.
And you clearly dont understand how any of this works because you think that the metrics i provided is showing the oil damage on another siege weapon? That is not how the addon works at all.
The fact is, sieges like meatbags, oils, coldfire, fire, scattershots etc etc are hitting for 10k+ ticks which is just way too much when you are already getting hit by 20+ players. AND the siege also has debuffs attached to it, like defile on meatbags, which does not conform to the standard major and minor buff system in the game.0 -
nuttytom✭✭✭✭
here is another example of siege ticking for 10k+ every second.
And, if you actually look, you can that this siege is from 3 separate players, which is quite minor considering we are nromally getting hit by way more than that whilst trying to fight outnumbered.Edited by nuttytom on 7 February 2023 19:120 -
Soraka✭✭✭✭✭You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.
Purge
Also as someone who doesn't know how siege works. Oil doesn't tick 9 times if you got hit once.
Also it seems to hit for 10k a tick on siege. I don't see it hit players that often..source: I just used it. I'm with the other guy. I think a video would back up your claims much better.
Yes we use purge, but i have said so many times, we are getting hit by MULTIPLE sieges and cant just spam the cleanse synergy from templar.
And ok yes, maybe i got hit by it 2 or 3 times, but you do know it carries on ticking after you move out of it right? all it takes is one hit and then it is ticking on you over x amount of seconds.
How would my combat metrics show how much damage an oil did to another siege?? Its literally showing the damage on ME. And if you dont see siege hitting that hard on players then you must be playing a different game quite honestly. People in this thread have shown many screenshots of the siege damage they have received.
Okay, what siege did you use on someone then?
Also just a correction: that oil in my metrics is from someone using elfbane, so yes its 9 ticks from getting hit by it once.
Ok so they had a build based around buffing siege vs your build that includes + fire damage.
You brought in the 10k per tick statistic not me. I was addressing that. Oil hits for 10k per tick against another siege. Not people...unless perhaps they are taking +fire damage vs someone with +fire damage set.
Again you appear to want to create a thread to dictate that this is what happens to you so it is so for everyone and are not particularly open to discussion or feedback. I don't think that something should be baseline scaled off of your experience being weak to it, plus it being buffed. That's not standardized.
Instead you are not adequately addressing what is being said, asking questions and being snarky about the answers, and resorting to insults. No point in this discussion.
yes but elfbane doesnt change the damage??? siege literally does hit for 10k+ on players, what are you talking about?
Its not just me saying this tho either? Multiple people in this thread agree and there is even another thread about siege damage needing to be toned down.
I have not insulted you once btw. You are simply discrediting everything i am saying even tho the proof is right there in the screenshots.
And you clearly dont understand how any of this works because you think that the metrics i provided is showing the oil damage on another siege weapon? That is not how the addon works at all.
The fact is, sieges like meatbags, oils, coldfire, fire, scattershots etc etc are hitting for 10k+ ticks which is just way too much when you are already getting hit by 20+ players. AND the siege also has debuffs attached to it, like defile on meatbags, which does not conform to the standard major and minor buff system in the game.
I think you are not understanding me and discrediting what several people have said to you. I not once have said that your metrics show siege damage to other siege.
And many people have said that screenshots and metrics are not a good way to show what is going on.
You continue to imply and say I don't know what I'm talking about in a derogatory way. I'm going to just agree to disagree with you.
I understand you are frustrated that something is causing you to die. I also just think you are blowing it up into something it's not. Sorry I just don't see it the same way. Best wishes good luck.Edited by Soraka on 7 February 2023 19:182 -
nuttytom✭✭✭✭Okay but you said that oil deals 10k damage ticks to other siege and not players, which is simply untrue.
We clearly just play different types of pvp, so yes we can agree to disagree.
I really dont think im blowing it up though, im talking about personal experiences with this problem of siege dealing too much damage to players. You dont see this because, again, we clearly just pvp in different ways so you simply cant understand mine and many others point of view on this matter.
Edited by nuttytom on 7 February 2023 19:280 -
TheMightyRevan✭✭✭You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.
Purge
Also as someone who doesn't know how siege works. Oil doesn't tick 9 times if you got hit once.
Also it seems to hit for 10k a tick on siege. I don't see it hit players that often..source: I just used it. I'm with the other guy. I think a video would back up your claims much better.
you not knowing that elfbane can extend siege duration, immediatly disqualifies you from argueing against a siege nerf in this discussion
plus the ridicolous " purge " comment. you do realise, that not every class has a purge?? and even if you have one you cant choose which effects are purged.Edited by TheMightyRevan on 7 February 2023 19:310 -
Soraka✭✭✭✭✭TheMightyRevan wrote: »You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.
Purge
Also as someone who doesn't know how siege works. Oil doesn't tick 9 times if you got hit once.
Also it seems to hit for 10k a tick on siege. I don't see it hit players that often..source: I just used it. I'm with the other guy. I think a video would back up your claims much better.
you not knowing that elfbane can extend siege duration, immediatly disqualifies you from argueing against a siege nerf in this discussion
My wording was unclear in later posts in which I addressed elf's bane. I understand it does that, but that was not part of what he initially seemed to be saying. As I addressed in my other posts. I include that as a buff to the siege, in duration. So I was thinking we were talking about basic normal circumstances until he said elf's bane.
So again my argument is that the armor set buffed siege and he naturally takes more damage. So his circumstances shouldn't be what balance is based on.
I wish my oils did that much. I will concede though, that sometimes my coldfire ballista does do 10k. Occasionally I'll hit that much with an oil, but not average.
I provided several options that work for many people, myself included. If he can't or won't purge there are others.
I don't have to have the same opinion as you without being treated like I don't know anything or don't pvp. If I didn't play pvp why would I even have an opinion? Such extreme hostile replies and goalpost moving.Edited by Soraka on 7 February 2023 19:595 -
TheMightyRevan✭✭✭TheMightyRevan wrote: »You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.
Purge
Also as someone who doesn't know how siege works. Oil doesn't tick 9 times if you got hit once.
Also it seems to hit for 10k a tick on siege. I don't see it hit players that often..source: I just used it. I'm with the other guy. I think a video would back up your claims much better.
you not knowing that elfbane can extend siege duration, immediatly disqualifies you from argueing against a siege nerf in this discussion
My wording was unclear in later posts in which I addressed elf's bane. I understand it does that, but that was not part of what he initially seemed to be saying. As I addressed in my other posts. I include that as a buff to the siege, in duration. So I was thinking we were talking about basic normal circumstances until he said elf's bane.
So again my argument is that the armor set buffed siege and he naturally takes more damage. So his circumstances shouldn't be what balance is based on.
I wish my oils did that much. I will concede though, that sometimes my coldfire ballista does do 10k. Occasionally I'll hit that much with an oil, but not average.
I provided several options that work for many people, myself included. If he can't or won't purge there are others.
I don't have to have the same opinion as you without being treated like I don't know anything or don't pvp. If I didn't play pvp why would I even have an opinion? Such extreme hostile replies and goalpost moving.
elfbane is only one of many issues with siege and shouldnt be a thing anyway, its a bug. Also, "several options", all i see is: "purge", not very constructive, is it.0 -
Soraka✭✭✭✭✭TheMightyRevan wrote: »TheMightyRevan wrote: »You are also weak to oil if I'm reading it correct
Also the top things in your screenshot are all fire damage, except poison injection which I googled and hits harder under 50% health and plague infected which is the explosion because you stood by someone who exploded or purged plague break's dot.
Appears you are vampire stage 3. Perhaps I'm not even reading this right.
But it is possible that you need practice in not standing in fire with people who explode.
Also to the below comment v
It appears there is a big assumption that everyone plays dueling playstyle. I could play the rest of my lifetime and probably not be able to kill a group on my support character. Sometimes the best way for me to support a handful of people fighting by a keep or a tower is to throw out my heals and pull out the dreaded "bad duelist siege".
And there are several counters to siege. Bubbles, burn them, counter siege, scootch over
What do you mean weak to oil? It ticks for literally 10k damage a second - everyone is weak to it lol.
I dont really know why youre talking about the non-siege damage i received in my metrics, it is not a problem at all and I havent complained about it once. The siege damage is the issue here, it is way overtuned vs players.
Yes there are counters, but when there are multiple sieges hitting you from different angles (while we are constantly on the move btw) and on top of that while you're getting chased by a large number of people, your solutions simply do not work and are not at all viable.
Fire.. vampire
Oil 3.1%
Poison injection 3.1%
ok? The point is oil is at the top with only 9 ticks of damage in a 17 minute long fight
You asked why I said you are weak to oil. You take extra damage from oil. Additionally if you are so on the move...oils don't have a huge range. To me it sounds like you have a lot of problems, the top of which is your inability to adjust and not the fact you stood in oil for nine ticks. That's a lot of time. The solutions are valid and used by other groups. You don't want to incorporate them that is not anyone's problem but your own.
Did you not read anything I said?
We are literally ALWAYS on the move in these kind of fights, its not JUST oil hitting us, its meatbags, fire ballistas, cold fire ballistas etc.
I used the oil in this metrics as an example to show how much more damage it does than player abilities.
And no, I didnt "stand in the oil for 9 ticks" I got hit by it once and then it continued to tick on me over the seconds whilst moving around.
You clearly are not aware of how siege actually works.
Purge
Also as someone who doesn't know how siege works. Oil doesn't tick 9 times if you got hit once.
Also it seems to hit for 10k a tick on siege. I don't see it hit players that often..source: I just used it. I'm with the other guy. I think a video would back up your claims much better.
you not knowing that elfbane can extend siege duration, immediatly disqualifies you from argueing against a siege nerf in this discussion
My wording was unclear in later posts in which I addressed elf's bane. I understand it does that, but that was not part of what he initially seemed to be saying. As I addressed in my other posts. I include that as a buff to the siege, in duration. So I was thinking we were talking about basic normal circumstances until he said elf's bane.
So again my argument is that the armor set buffed siege and he naturally takes more damage. So his circumstances shouldn't be what balance is based on.
I wish my oils did that much. I will concede though, that sometimes my coldfire ballista does do 10k. Occasionally I'll hit that much with an oil, but not average.
I provided several options that work for many people, myself included. If he can't or won't purge there are others.
I don't have to have the same opinion as you without being treated like I don't know anything or don't pvp. If I didn't play pvp why would I even have an opinion? Such extreme hostile replies and goalpost moving.
elfbane is only one of many issues with siege and shouldnt be a thing anyway, its a bug. Also, "several options", all i see is: "purge", not very constructive, is it.
That post was one of many in this discussion, where I provided several others.
I don't necessarily disagree about elf's bane, I have it and used it some and don't care for a whole build revolving around siege. This thread is calling for a nerf of siege using elf's bane as part of the context in which siege is affecting this person so much. There is a lot more going on situationally in the examples provided and from information gathered later that was not initially given (that I saw, this has gotten to be a long conversation).
My argument is simply that something should not be balanced around that many variables skewing the baseline. I'm not saying he's not getting hit hard. I'm saying that it's not a standardized example. If I build all heals and can't kill him I do not call for him to be nerfed because of my situation + his situation making it impossible for me to kill him. Not a completely accurate metaphor, but it's what I have right now. If someone punches me 20 times in the stomach while I am wearing armor and then shoots me in my naked face once, then the gun damage is going to be bigger. I didn't protect myself against gun damage.
Anyway, I just don't agree with "nerf siege" when there's probably several things that need looking into such as sets and blocking issues etc. It's not that deep and my opinion doesn't influence anything anyway.
Edited by Soraka on 7 February 2023 20:341 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
here is another example of siege ticking for 10k+ every second.
And, if you actually look, you can that this siege is from 3 separate players, which is quite minor considering we are nromally getting hit by way more than that whilst trying to fight outnumbered.
Perhaps you should try "Amassing a 24 man group," like the recap tip says.
Listen to ZOS. They are just trying to help you!RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.6 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭Believe it or not @nuttytom @TheMightyRevan I'm hearing what you're saying. I just want to see a clip before I can agree that siege itself needs nerfed.
I already agree that sets or damage modifiers shouldn't effect siege. Well the vampire thing is probably fine (or not) but what the sieger is wearing or buffed by shouldn't matter.
And it should be blockable. And the circles NEED to show up.
I'm just not sure about some of the other stuff. And that's why I want to see a video I guess. Cuz I mean... A 17 minute fight is a pretty long time for a small group to stay alive inside an enemy keep like that. It sounds like you and your group do really really well.
I just wonder what would satisfy you? Not about siege-- you've been clear-- but more generally speaking. How long do you want to live? And what should it take to bring you down??
4 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »Very balanced needs no change
Looks like survivability needs nerfed. It took 67000 damage to kill you. What PUGs are going to come drop that on you with abilities? Especially knowing you can't block siege right now but can block their attacks.
Yeah; siege hits super hard right now, for sure, but there's other issues that are bigger.Edited by TechMaybeHic on 8 February 2023 01:154 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »Very balanced needs no change
Looks like survivability needs nerfed. It took 67000 damage to kill you. What PUGs are going to come drop that on you with abilities? Especially knowing you can't block siege right now but can block their attacks.
Yeah; siege hits super hard right now, for sure, but there's other issues that are bigger.
I like how you guys try and find an excuse no matter what is posted. Show siege ticing for too little and its OKAY. Show Siege ticing for too much and its OKAY because its not the problem.
For the record, It doesn't take siege hitting that hard to actually kill me.Edited by Alchimiste1 on 8 February 2023 02:170 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »Very balanced needs no change
Looks like survivability needs nerfed. It took 67000 damage to kill you. What PUGs are going to come drop that on you with abilities? Especially knowing you can't block siege right now but can block their attacks.
Yeah; siege hits super hard right now, for sure, but there's other issues that are bigger.
I like how you guys try and find an excuse no matter what is posted. Show siege ticing for too little and its OKAY. Show Siege ticing for too much and its OKAY because its not the problem.
For the record, It doesn't take siege hitting that hard to actually kill me.
I never said its OK. It hits a little too much, and I have eaten it enough as well. (not lately, because I mean; there really is so much more wrong with the game right now.) Really, you can get so much siege damage so fast that you cannot react if they really coordinate it. Especially outnumbered. But I just think expecting others to play how you think is proper is a bit misguided. It's like going out to 1vX and then getting killed by a larger number and being upset about it and hate telling what could be some elderly person just out for fun, knowing full well the fight you were picking. I feel the same way when we get the idea of trying to pull a zerg back to defend a keep knowing way more of them are going to come.1 -
Cloudrest✭✭✭✭I can see both sides of the debate. It's a fine line between crutching on massive damage from the safety of 50 meters and being willing to die in order how to learn how to counter highly skilled players face to face. I'm nowhere near being an elite player, but I have learned a lot by being willing to leave my comfort zone and trying different skills, sets, and strategies.
This is a good take.Formerly @Cloudrest, now @Nightwielder in-game on PC/NA. Cyrodiil PvPer; retired duelist and PvE Trifecta DPS.Empyrean Knight Gwynevere | ♔ Breton Templar | AR50 Grand Overlord II | 9400+ hours | Aldmeri DominionMerethiel of Vaulinchyl |🗡Altmer Nightblade | AR50 Grand Overlord I | 3000+ hours | Aldmeri Dominion♔ Immortal Redeemer | ♔ Tick-Tock Tormentor | ♔🗡 2x Gryphon Heart | ♔ Godslayer | 🗡 Dawnbringer | ♔ 7x Former Empress1 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭the only thing i get out of this thread is that smallscale and ballgroups complain about things that counter their particular way of farming people.
maybe you should think about why random people are so saturated with your game style that they counter it as effectively as possible and don't run into the tower to die 20 times.
and everyone who asks themselves why they don't run endlessly into the tower, in the conviction that you could learn something from it, is lying to themselves. you learn nothing from it, except not to run into the tower, or to look for more effective ways of countering. even the best players wouldn't run solo into a smallscale or ballgroup, makes no sense and certainly has no learning effect.
and the screenshots i see here only prove one thing, you are so immobile in your playstyle that you are not able to adjust to a situation. of course you could have left keeps and tower before without any problems, i do solo every day before it gets too much. but you sit it out to the maximum and then rather post a screenshot why the world is so unfair.
Edited by Luede on 8 February 2023 10:0811 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭@luede thats a great paragraph and all. Filled with your opinions but I just want to reiterate.
12k cold fire that is effectively oblivion damage is over-tuned. Ty have a good one.0 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭can you answer this one simple question: is it okay that 9 ticks of oil is my highest damage received in a 17 minute fight? you can clearly see the other abilities i got hit by in the cmx report; how much they hit me and how much overall damage they did to me during this 17 minute fight. Is it okay for oil to be on top of that list in ONLY 9 (NINE) hits? yes or no.
and okay, you will get your clips. even then im sure you will come up with some counter argument to discredit what me and many others have been saying, or to try and tell me to "adapt".
So, you’re one of those players that I see from time to time that have figured out how to negate 90+% of just about every source of incoming damage, and now you want ZOS to nerf one of the very few sources of damage left that you have to respect.
Edited by Marcus684 on 8 February 2023 21:198 -
biminirwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Siege used to proc sets like vicious death, then zos removed this and said it was not intended.
BUT the procs returned a few patches ago.
So now a player can build for sets that increase fire damage and get 50k damage from oil ticks and proc VD. I am sure this is still unintended and await the procs removal.
Cloudrest is one of the better small scale players and one of the best duelists in NA Cyrodiil, I ain't chasing her into no tower. I'm gunna snipe her from 51m
6 -
Vanionator✭✭✭It is what it is. It's too bad that you've let it become such a huge issue for you. When I die to siege, I wait for a rez, use a camp or release to a keep. Sometimes I can heal through it, sometimes BOOM! I'm dead. BUT it isn't just "zergs" and "noobs" that use it, I've died to really good fighters using it(1vX'rs). Don't nerf it. Keep it as it is. We as a pvp community have bigger concerns such as the lag spikes, or the rez-hacks(I don't know what that is, people complain about it in chat) that are supposedly being used.
I can understand why it may bother you, it affects your play-style, but by nerfing it, have you considered that it may affect others? I know some people who just love getting out their siege to defend a keep. So, to satisfy you, their game play will be affected and will result in the same unhappiness that you feel. Is that fair?0 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭
Not that easy to move when you get stunned, snared, immobilized, meteored and are low on ressoursses and when you finally get out of area there are waiting snipers/assassins(after you dropped black to get out of circle faster) and surprise … another siege circleFantasticFreddie wrote: »Siege has very simple counter play, you know what it's called? MOVE.
Don't stand in siege. It's a giant red circle that telegraphs over several seconds. Just move. It's slow enough you can just walk out of it in 90% of the cases. If you are trying to stand on a ram while 6 people pour oils on you from above, that's a you problem. If you are fighting in an open field and can't move out of the giant, creeping red circle, that is again a you problem.
Siege is working as intended. You aren't supposed to be able to eat NINE ticks of it like a player is posting above, you are supposed to move out of it. It's entire job is to deny you space to move.
You have your movement buttons for a reason. Use them.
Edited by Iriidius on 11 February 2023 01:110 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Not that easy to move when you get stunned, snared, immobilized, meteored and are low on ressoursses and when you finally get out of area there are waiting snipers/assassins and surprise … another siege circleFantasticFreddie wrote: »Siege has very simple counter play, you know what it's called? MOVE.
Don't stand in siege. It's a giant red circle that telegraphs over several seconds. Just move. It's slow enough you can just walk out of it in 90% of the cases. If you are trying to stand on a ram while 6 people pour oils on you from above, that's a you problem. If you are fighting in an open field and can't move out of the giant, creeping red circle, that is again a you problem.
Siege is working as intended. You aren't supposed to be able to eat NINE ticks of it like a player is posting above, you are supposed to move out of it. It's entire job is to deny you space to move.
You have your movement buttons for a reason. Use them.
Sounds like being outnumbered.7 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »
Not that easy to move when you get stunned, snared, immobilized, meteored and are low on ressoursses and when you finally get out of area there are waiting snipers/assassins and surprise … another siege circleFantasticFreddie wrote: »Siege has very simple counter play, you know what it's called? MOVE.
Don't stand in siege. It's a giant red circle that telegraphs over several seconds. Just move. It's slow enough you can just walk out of it in 90% of the cases. If you are trying to stand on a ram while 6 people pour oils on you from above, that's a you problem. If you are fighting in an open field and can't move out of the giant, creeping red circle, that is again a you problem.
Siege is working as intended. You aren't supposed to be able to eat NINE ticks of it like a player is posting above, you are supposed to move out of it. It's entire job is to deny you space to move.
You have your movement buttons for a reason. Use them.
Sounds like being outnumbered.
Yes, sounds like being outnumbered. Sounds like receiving so much pressure that your health and resources run low and you rightfully die.6 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »@luede thats a great paragraph and all. Filled with your opinions but I just want to reiterate.
12k cold fire that is effectively oblivion damage is over-tuned. Ty have a good one.
yes granted, sets should have no influence on siege weapons, but honestly, the thread would exist even if it were 9k instead of 12k. or would the world be fine with 9k for you?0
